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Talk:Holocaust denial

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1: Holocaust denial is not necessarily antisemitic. Response: One item that has been raised here several times is the contention that Holocaust denial is not inherently antisemitic, and/or that Misplaced Pages should not conclude that everyone who is a Holocaust denier harbors antisemitic feelings.

Misplaced Pages is not here to conclude that, and its editors' opinion on the matter - whatever those opinions are and regardless of who they belong to - are irrelevant. Misplaced Pages is here to present what reliable sources say. In this case, there is a preponderance of reliable material stating that Holocaust denial is antisemitic, and therefore the article notes that Holocaust denial is considered to be antisemitic, and why the antisemitism template is legitimately included.

Related archived discussion: , .

2: The antisemitism template should be removed. Response: Please see the response to Item 1 as to why the antisemitism template is legitimately placed. 3: Holocaust denial should be renamed Holocaust revisionism Response: No. Per numerous reliable sources, the correct terminology is Holocaust denial/denier.

Related archived discussion: , , , , , .

4: Not all historians reject Holocaust denial. Response: Yes, they do. As is already stated in the article, according to the oldest and largest American association of historians and history teachers, "no serious historian questions that the Holocaust took place", and that Holocaust denial is a form of "academic fraud". Misplaced Pages must avoid using vague or unspecific terms, and words which do not accuractely reflect what reliable sources say.

Related archived discussion: , .

5: The 4 million Auschwitz plaque Response: One issue relates to the death toll plaque at Auschwitz, which was amended following the collapse of the Soviet Union to read 1.5 million Jewish deaths, instead of 4 million victims of no specified ethnicity or background.

The Soviet authorities estimated the death toll not via historical methodology, but by working out how many people could have been cremated during the entire existence of the camp, taking 20% off to account for crematoria down-time, and using that number: around 4 million. They did not, for example, examine how many people were sent to the camp versus how many did not return, but used the 4 million variant to purposely overstate non-Jewish deaths, and diminish the fact that 90% of those that disappeared following their deportation to Auschwitz were Jewish. Once the Iron Curtain fell, communist pressure to keep the original Soviet estimate ceased and the more accurate estimate replaced it.

In any event, reputable historians did not use the 4 million figure in their calculations of the overall number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. Rather, they used numbers of 1 to 1.5 million, figures which are still used today.

Related archived discussion/items: , , and the appropriate section in the Auschwitz article.

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Former good articleHolocaust denial was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 6, 2004Featured article candidateNot promoted
October 11, 2004Featured article candidateNot promoted
December 27, 2006Good article nomineeListed
July 5, 2007Good article reassessmentKept
July 15, 2008Good article reassessmentKept
June 6, 2020Good article reassessmentDelisted
Current status: Delisted good article
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"In 2006 the Netherlands rejected a draft law proposing a maximum sentence of one year on denial of genocidal acts in general, although specifically denying the Holocaust remains a criminal offense there." is now outdated as this sentence of one year was passed. 31.20.106.40 (talk) 18:02, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Can you provide a reference? Zero 06:37, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Why is modern Polish Holocaust denial not mentioned?

It has become fashionable in Poland to paint the Polish nation as having been largely uninvolved or unwilling participants in the Holocaust, which is a form of soft Holocaust denial or "Holocaust distortion" as Jan Grabowski calls it. Why is this not mentioned in the text? It has gone so far as the PiS-controlled senate passing a law making pointing out Polish participation in the Holocaust punishable by up to three years in prison (BBC article, NYT article). KetchupSalt (talk) 11:45, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

What text do you suggest adding to what section cited to what sources? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:25, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
Let me get back to you on that, I need to dive into the relevant research. KetchupSalt (talk) 09:21, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
I have not tried looking at sources at all, but it may not be that easy to find good ones referring to this "thing" as Holocaust denial. Which is a must per WP:OR. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:48, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

"The Holohoax" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect The Holohoax has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 8 § The Holohoax until a consensus is reached. Liz 07:45, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

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