Talk:Proud Boys - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by TarnishedPath (talk | contribs) at 13:27, 13 March 2024 (Move CTOP notice and other warning near the top for visibility.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 13:27, 13 March 2024 by TarnishedPath (talk | contribs) (Move CTOP notice and other warning near the top for visibility.)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Proud Boys article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7Auto-archiving period: 3 months

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Before requesting any edits to this protected article, please familiarise yourself with reliable sourcing requirements.

Before posting an edit request on this talk page, please read the reliable sourcing and original research policies. These policies require that information in Misplaced Pages articles be supported by citations from reliable independent sources, and disallow your personal views, observations, interpretations, analyses, or anecdotes from being used.

Only content verified by subject experts and other reliable sources may be included, and uncited material may be removed without notice. If your complaint is about an assertion made in the article, check first to see if your proposed change is supported by reliable sources. If it is not, it is highly unlikely that your request will be granted. Checking the archives for previous discussions may provide more information. Requests which do not provide citations from reliable sources, or rely on unreliable sources, may be subject to closure without any other response.

The Proud Boys have a history of self-published claims that often contradict independent reliable sources. As per the fringe perspectives policy and self-description guidelines, these statements should be mentioned, but attributed in-text to the group and be within the context of coverage from reliable sources. Be careful not to give undue weight to the Proud Boys' statements, especially when they conflict with reliable sources.

This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

view · edit Frequently asked questions Q1: I'd like to suggest a change. Where should I start? A1: Great! The first thing you should do is check that no one else has already brought up your suggestion. You can check this by going through the current discussions below, or by searching the talk archives. Q2: Why does the article describe the Proud Boys as "far-right", "neo-fascist" or as having connections to white supremacists? A2: Misplaced Pages is built off reliable sources, and the significant and clear majority of sources use such descriptions. You can see a few selected sources for these determinations in the article's content, though many other sources have also been included in previous talk discussions: far-right discussion, neo-fascist discussion, white supremacy discussion. Discussion amongst editors around this happened in 2020, resulting in an editorial consensus to keep this three terms per all available evidence. Q3: I have a connection to the Proud Boys, but there's something wrong. A3: Neutrality is important to Misplaced Pages, so editors with conflicts of interests are generally discouraged from editing directly, and instead should request edits to be made to ensure their independence. This can be done by creating a new talk section, describing your request (including what needs changing and sources), and adding {{Request edit}} to the top of the section. If there is something wrong like spelling or grammar, feel free to change it yourself, but any meaningful changes are best to be discussed first. Q4: What sort of policies should I be aware of before I start editing? A4: If you're wanting to jump in and start editing, it's best that you're familiar with Misplaced Pages's neutrality, verifiability (referencing), and biography policies. We're all here to help build a better encyclopedia, so if you would like some help making sure your change is okay or would like a second pair of eyes to skim over it before you save it, just post a new message on the talk page!

Skip to table of contents

This article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Conservatism Low‑importance

	Conservatism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of conservatism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConservatismWikipedia:WikiProject ConservatismTemplate:WikiProject ConservatismConservatism
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Men's Issues Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Men's Issues, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Men's Issues articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Men's IssuesWikipedia:WikiProject Men's IssuesTemplate:WikiProject Men's IssuesMen's Issues
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Discrimination High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Discrimination, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Discrimination on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DiscriminationWikipedia:WikiProject DiscriminationTemplate:WikiProject DiscriminationDiscrimination
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.

Organizations Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Organizations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Organizations on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OrganizationsWikipedia:WikiProject OrganizationsTemplate:WikiProject Organizationsorganization
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Politics: American Low‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by American politics task force (assessed as Low-importance).

United States Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.

United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Crime and Criminal Biography Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Crime and Criminal Biography: Terrorism

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Terrorism task force (assessed as Mid-importance).

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 2 times. The weeks in which this happened:

The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

Park, Meadhbh (2022). "Fight Club: Gavin McInnes, the Proud Boys, and Male Supremacism". In Carian, Emily K.; DiBranco, Alex; Ebin, Chelsea (eds.). Male Supremacism in the United States: From Patriarchal Traditionalism to Misogynist Incels and the Alt-Right. Abingdon, England: Routledge. doi:10.4324/9781003164722. ISBN 978-1-0005-7622-1.

Section sizes

Section size for Proud Boys (47 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	28,213	28,213
History and organization	24,253	61,692
Membership and doctrine	8,222	8,994
Gender and sexuality	772	772
Leadership	9,539	9,539
Connection with Roger Stone	8,438	8,438
2020 presidential debate	7,393	7,393
Foreign disinformation during the 2020 presidential campaign	3,075	3,075
Activities and events	104	56,733
2017–2018	16,418	16,418
2018 Metropolitan Republican Club Incident	1,981	13,382
Protestors	1,848	1,848
Incident	5,726	5,726
Aftermath	3,827	3,827
2019 Demand Free Speech rally	3,599	3,599
End Domestic Terrorism rally 2019	4,840	4,840
2020 COVID-19 misinformation	3,883	3,883
Anti-BLM protests	7,061	7,061
2020 church attacks	7,446	7,446
Participation in the January 6 United States Capitol attack	28,108	62,965
Indictments for conspiracy	27,194	27,194
Convictions for seditious conspiracy	7,663	7,663
Post-2021 actions	24	9,528
Alabama	2,870	2,870
Portland, Oregon march	2,178	2,178
Florida	1,392	1,392
California	1,676	1,676
Split with neo-Nazis	779	779
Trump conviction	609	609
Response	15	19,726
Government	19	12,676
United States	1,980	1,980
Canada	9,625	9,625
New Zealand	1,052	1,052
Southern Poverty Law Center lawsuit	4,496	4,496
Lawsuits	2,379	2,379
Social media bans	160	160
Subgroups	16	1,444
Fraternal Order of the Alt-Knights	400	400
Canadian chapters	1,028	1,028
Symbolism	1,422	11,363
Association with Fred Perry clothing	5,127	5,127
MAGA hats	2,023	2,023
6MWE	2,791	2,791
See also	218	218
References	30	30
External links	1,910	1,910
Total	253,822	253,822

Semi-protected edit request on 2 September 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Considering that: academic sources use "crypto-fascist" and "proto-fascist"; that the Proud Boys are not inspired by a classical fascist regime, but by Pinochet's Chile (which is not described as neo-fascist by most scholars, but is described as semi-fascist and/or neoliberal (see Pinochetism)). I suggest changing "neo-fascist" (X) to "crypto-fascist/protofascist" (Y). Alternatively, I suggest adding more context. 93.45.229.98 (talk) 08:00, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. M.Bitton (talk) 14:24, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Rant, not an actual suggestion for improving the article. Closing per WP:FORUM. — The Hand That Feeds You: 16:29, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The entire writen statement about this organization seems heavily prejudiced. Fascism literally can not be people who believe in the us constitution. This group is a Pro American, Anti-Facist group! Stop your treasonous and hate-filled lies! Misplaced Pages Doublespeak is obviously in full effect here. 2601:601:1100:5EE0:56F2:5803:8647:3735 (talk) 10:41, 7 September 2023 (UTC) The German Nazi party believed in the German constitution too and were able to obtain power and establish an effective dictatorship through a mix of constitutional and violent means. Hopefully those like the Proud Boys will never have that sort of power or traction. In any case perhaps you should stop with the bile and insults TarnishedPath 11:00, 7 September 2023 (UTC) You've made a common misunderstanding about the nature of Misplaced Pages. Wikipedians aren't calling the group fascist, we're just summarizing what the sources say. If you look at the end of the sentence, you can see the list of sources that say this. I'm no expert, but I think you're deeply mistaken when you describe the PBs as Antifascist -- in point of fact that's PB's term for their group's enemies. Feoffer (talk) 23:11, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Rant, not an actual suggestion for improving the article. Closing per WP:FORUM. — The Hand That Feeds You: 16:29, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

The entire writen statement about this organization seems heavily prejudiced. Fascism literally can not be people who believe in the us constitution. This group is a Pro American, Anti-Facist group! Stop your treasonous and hate-filled lies! Misplaced Pages Doublespeak is obviously in full effect here. 2601:601:1100:5EE0:56F2:5803:8647:3735 (talk) 10:41, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

The German Nazi party believed in the German constitution too and were able to obtain power and establish an effective dictatorship through a mix of constitutional and violent means. Hopefully those like the Proud Boys will never have that sort of power or traction. In any case perhaps you should stop with the bile and insults TarnishedPath 11:00, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

You've made a common misunderstanding about the nature of Misplaced Pages. Wikipedians aren't calling the group fascist, we're just summarizing what the sources say. If you look at the end of the sentence, you can see the list of sources that say this. I'm no expert, but I think you're deeply mistaken when you describe the PBs as Antifascist -- in point of fact that's PB's term for their group's enemies. Feoffer (talk) 23:11, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Date of Trump quote in lede

Donald Trump said "stand back and stand by" in September, not October. Atubofsilverware (talk) 1:38, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Fixed, thanks! Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:16, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

"Opponents"

The infobox currently lists Black Lives Matter as "opponents" of the Proud Boys. I'm not sure this is justified. Yes, absolutely, the Proud Boys are against BLM and have engaged as such... but I cannot find in this article any mention of BLM trying to do anything to the Proud Boys, and the Proud Boys aren't even mentioned in the BLM article. (Quickly found definition of "opponent": someone who competes against or fights another in a contest, game, or argument; a rival or adversary.) So at first glance it does not appear that BLM is directly opposing the Proud Boys; they are a target of the Proud Boys. As such, this should be removed from the infobox. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 07:06, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Nothing in the article suggests that BLM is their opponent. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:16, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

I've gone and done it. (And to be clear, Antifa is a different case; we have sourced statements on Antifa coming to a PB-centric rally.) -- Nat Gertler (talk) 14:02, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Jack Buckby and Proud Boys in the UK

There was a short-lived UK division of Proud Boys. This is documented on Jack Buckby's article with a source and can be included on the Proud Boys article. 2A00:23C6:C022:C701:904E:8571:793:B0EA (talk) 13:21, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Categories: