Talk:People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran

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Section sizes

Section size for People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran (48 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	31,396	31,396
History	15	106,410
Early years (1965–1970)	1,844	1,844
Schism (1970–1978)	13,123	13,123
1979 Iranian Revolution and subsequent power struggles	4,891	4,891
Cultural revolution, Iranian protests, and subsequent oppression (1980–1981)	5,679	14,023
Hafte Tir bombing	4,783	4,783
Open conflict with the Islamic Republican Party	3,561	3,561
Exile and underground opposition activity (1982–1988)	3,846	18,398
Operations Shining sun, Forty Stars, and Mersad	9,228	9,228
1988 execution of MEK prisoners	5,324	5,324
Post-war Saddam era (1988–2003)	6,830	11,150
2003 French arrests	4,320	4,320
Post-U.S. invasion of Iraq (2003–2016)	11,056	25,162
Iraqi government's crackdown (2009–2012)	6,957	6,957
Iran's nuclear programme	7,149	7,149
Settlement in Albania (2016–present)	1,311	17,804
Relationship during Trump presidency	5,259	5,259
Islamic Republic of Iran operations against MEK inside Europe	11,234	11,234
Ideology	15	27,096
Before the revolution	6,162	6,162
After the revolution	3,623	3,623
Ideological revolution and women's rights	5,308	5,308
Cult of personality	11,988	11,988
Structure and organization	34	27,286
Organizations	3,564	3,564
Membership	3,258	3,258
Fundraising	8,104	8,104
Intelligence capabilities	5,545	5,545
Propaganda and social media	6,781	6,781
Terrorist designation	78	21,300
Assignment of designation	11,197	11,197
Removal of designation	10,025	10,025
Foreign relations	4,398	14,053
Position on the Israel–Palestinian conflict	1,807	1,807
Relations with the United States	7,848	7,848
Human rights record	5,871	5,871
Intelligence campaigns against the MEK	7,370	10,107
Targeting of MEK members outside Iran	2,737	2,737
Perception	15	8,868
Inside Iran	6,541	6,541
By other Iranian opposition parties	2,312	2,312
In the media	1,099	1,099
See also	354	354
Notes	39	39
References	5,376	5,376
Bibliography	4,761	4,761
External links	2,612	2,612
Total	266,628	266,628

On 21 February 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from People's Mujahedin of Iran to People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran. The result of the discussion was moved.

This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:

Fiona Hamilton (7 January 2023). "How Misplaced Pages is being changed to downgrade Iranian human rights atrocities". The Times. Retrieved 8 January 2023. On the MEK's English Misplaced Pages page over the summer a string of information describing human rights abuses by Iranian officials was deleted. The anonymous users who changed the content cited the need for "trimming" or claimed that the material was trivial.
Farid Mahoutchi (18 January 2024). "In the War for Narratives Iran's Regime Takes to Misplaced Pages". National Council of Resistance of Iran. Retrieved 18 January 2024. For instance, on the English language Misplaced Pages page for "People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran", the writing suggests that "At one point the MEK was Iran's 'largest and most active armed dissident group,' and it is still sometimes presented by Western political backers as a major Iranian opposition group, but it is also deeply unpopular today within Iran, largely due to its siding with Iraq in Iran–Iraq War." The sources of this statement, which carries a significant amount of misinformation, are articles from reputable outlets. However, it's noteworthy that the authors, who have historically expressed hostile views toward the organization, contribute to the narrative.

Continue "More additions to the lead"

The previous discussion has become too long and I opened a new one. First of all, I need to mention the consensus built by users after proposal by admin on the definition of what is longstanding material. "longstanding text would be about a month". So Alex_h has literally removed a longstanding without building consensus. He applied just his own opinion on the article then explained it on TP. He didn't wait for positive or negative comments from other users when removing a longstanding text. This is not "bulding the consensus". Please review "WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS" on top of TP. Ali Ahwazi (talk) 14:57, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

@Ali Ahwazi: Regarding the link you shared Defining longstanding text for this article, that was from 2019 and the editors who participated don't seem active here anymore. I have also noticed that User:Kazemita1 and User:Saff V. were blocked for sockpuppetry. The admin who made that proposal was El_C, tagging him here to see if he has any thoughts on that. If a controversial edit is being called into question in a talk page discussion, you need to respond appropriately. Many of the edits that are being objected to were made within a month or much less, so if you have any thoughts about any particular edit, share your thoughts in the appropriate thread. ParadaJulio (talk) 17:43, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Ali Ahwazi: All reverts by Alex-h and ParadaJulio were done in bad faith and evading previous sanctions. WP:REVERTBAN applies, so feel free to restore content reverted by them if you think that improves the article. MarioGom (talk) 09:01, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks MrioGom. Depending on the recent changes, I have to review the content again and discuss it on this page if needed. Ali Ahwazi (talk) 19:28, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Article in reasonable shape now

The page has a fairly reasonable and sensical structure now, and the readable prose count is down to nearing 80kB, making it a much more digestible affair. There's more work to be done on sourcing, and probably on trimming and summarizing the history section, but I would say, overall, that the article is in reasonable shape now. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:20, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you Iskandar323, I try to summarize the history section. Feel free to modify my changes.Ghazaalch (talk) 18:47, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 September 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

stength = strength 2603:8000:D300:3650:D06B:E3DD:D32F:7B4 (talk) 23:51, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Done Tollens (talk) 23:57, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

This article has been mentioned by a media organization-BRD

I added In the War for Narratives Iran’s Regime Takes to Misplaced Pages by National Council of Resistance of Iran to this talkpage-template, and was reverted on that, "this is not a media organization, but a self-published post by the National Council of Resistance of Iran (an organization with at least one member banned by WMF T&S"

Reasonable people can disagree on what counts as "media organization" in this context, I thought it was close enough, though I tend to be a bit inclusionist on these things. I think of a political org's official website as a media org, in general. Not that it comes up in this context very often, most of it will be some kind of "news". Fwiw, the website has "News". If you have an opinion, please share. However, "an organization with at least one member banned by WMF T&S" doesn't matter in this context, but it's interesting info. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:47, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

I guess that's fair. MarioGom (talk) 11:15, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: As you note, it's a political party's blog. While it might contain media, that does not make it a "media site" by any standard definition of the term. WP:PRESS and the press template are strictly for press sources. Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages in blogs is the place for blog mentions. Iskandar323 (talk) 16:46, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

The site has a blog-section, but afaict, the article in question is not there. Some political parties used to publish their own newspapers and magazines (maybe some still do), I don't consider this very different. But that's my view. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:34, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Characterization as a cult

Hogo-2020: You reverted my change changing the title of the section "Cult of personality" to "Characterization as a cult". Your rationale was While some sources use this term for the MEK, others don't. It is irrelevant that some sources do not describe it as a cult. Some do, and in-text attribution is used to note it. The section is not about "cult of personality". The content and the backing sources are way more broad and discuss the extent to which the organization can (or cannot) be characterized as a cult. It is simply incorrect to name this section "cult of personality". It does not match the content. It does not match the sources. MarioGom (talk) 18:00, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Oh God, the topic's back. Yes, it's described as a cult, but not a cult of personality. It wasn't one of these things where everyone hung the pictures of the leaders on the walls. Characterization is a more usefully descriptive/functional subtitle. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:48, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello MarioGom. I reverted your edit (didn't change the title as you say) because it was a deeply biased change. It is not irrelevant that other sources use the term "Cult of Personality". All reliable sources need to be considered, and if that's what's missing in that section, then perhaps we should be discussing that instead. I take it from the above comment that this has been previously addressed. If you're adamant about this change, we should look at those discussions as well as sources and determine what new information would support such a change. Hogo-2020 (talk) 07:29, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Hogo-2020: Do you realize that the section is not about "cult of personality"? Neither the content or the sources are about that. It just does not make any sense. Which title would you propose for this section? MarioGom (talk) 19:41, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Also note that you are free to propose any other changes to the content, but trying to keep a title unrelated to the content is the kind of filibusterism that has plagued the 62 pages of archives already . MarioGom (talk) 19:43, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello MarioGom, as already said, this looks like a deeply biased change because you're overlooking a major part of the literature. I will survey sources (also in the archives) and start a list here. Hogo-2020 (talk) 07:10, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't see how the title is biased at all. The title is not "Cult", "Cult characteristics", or "This is a cult". "Characterization as a cult" is a fairly neutral heading for a section that discusses the sources that describe it as a cult, a politico-religious sect, etc. Some of these sources are as reliable as they can get, such as Ervand Abrahamian. But in any case, the heading "Characterization as a cult" does not preclude adding reliable sources that try to refute the others or represent a different viewpoint on the topic. MarioGom (talk) 11:11, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Can you please say which sources use the title "Characterization as a cult" (or similar)? Hogo-2020 (talk) 07:17, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

It's a summary of the content. What would be your preferred title? MarioGom (talk) 07:35, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

How did you arrive at that summary? through which sources? Hogo-2020 (talk) 07:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Please, just see the content of the section. These sources state that the organization has characteristics of a cult, with different aspects being discussed. How would you call a well-sourced section that discusses the extent to which an organization is a cult or displays some characteristics of a cult? The exact title does not need to be in the sources, just like "History" or "Controversies" do not need to explictly come from the sources, as long as the sources discuss history and controversies. So, again, what would be your preferred title for this section? MarioGom (talk) 08:20, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

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