Misplaced Pages

User talk:Athaenara/Archive 4

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
< User talk:Athaenara

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Athaenara (talk | contribs) at 09:19, 14 April 2007 (Archived Duggar family, Langan entry, Cat Porter, Gene R. Nichol subsections.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 09:19, 14 April 2007 by Athaenara (talk | contribs) (Archived Duggar family, Langan entry, Cat Porter, Gene R. Nichol subsections.)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
Athænara's Talk Archive 4.  



This is an archive of discussions from February 2007.
Please do not edit the contents of this page.
If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.


Biographies of living persons

Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons policy and WP:BLP Noticeboard

Seth Swirsky

Take 1

Hi Athaenara. This is Seth Swirsky. I am new to wikipedia so please bear with me—I hope I'm not writing this in the wrong place. But here goes: I have a page that a number people have written on (you can only imagime how flattered I am!). I'm a pop songwriter and book author but I've also written many political articles throughout the past year and a half. One person—moelarryjesus—clearly does not like me personally. Someone emailed me today and says he's trying to label me, on my 'wiki' page, as a 'conservative', which I am not. This person has written me personally very nasty emails to my personal email.

I know politics is a rough sport, but I don't feel like that should happen. When I found out that he is continually trying to revert my page to a label of which I am not, it's a little distressing. So, I (probably clumsily) reverted it back (again, it's my first time on wiki). I also wrote why I think the description of me as a Henry "Scoop" Jackson democrat, should stand. I understand you ruled against me. But, if you would please allow me a second of your valued time, I can give you my case for reverting back. As an aside, I think this person is targeting me and it's a little nerve-racking (to say the least!). Again, thank you Athaenara. — Sethswirsky (talk · contribs) 22:32, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

First, I apologise for misinterpretating statements in your RCP article and getting the point only half right.
I'm not an administrator and I have no special powers or tools on Misplaced Pages. Users like MoeLarryAndJesus generate a degree of conflict that is beyond the scope of a simple dispute resolution project like Misplaced Pages:Third opinion, which relies on good faith in disputes between two editors only.
The situation this user has created on Talk:Seth Swirsky is extremely unpleasant. S/he is the kind of disruptive, tendentious and contentious user who doesn't understand that Misplaced Pages article talk pages are for discussions about improving encyclopedia articles, not free-for-all blogs. Such users typically either change their ways dramatically or get banned from Misplaced Pages. — Athænara ✉ 23:40, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Again, sorry to be bugging you Athaenara—I'm new to wiki and I don't know if this is the place to ask you to intercede. Can you, if you get a chance, take a look at my reasons for not wanting to be labeled something I'm not by "MoeLarryJesus". it's become a blog-stand-off (and I know that's not what this site is for. ) I apologize if I contributed to that but I just wanted to defend and elucidate my position with this person, who, it seems, is intent on 'getting his way". I can offer a compromise, but it wouldn't matter because he just continues (somewhat obsessively, judging by the personal emails I get to my email box) to want to label me as HE sees me. Oy! Thanks again for looking at the situation. I obviously would like that section to revert back to what someone named Jheditorials wrote. Thank you. — Sethswirsky (talk) 23:18, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Understood. I don't think you contributed to it—on the contrary, you had a normal human reaction to being maligned and harassed by a total stranger. Please see also the Dispute resolution section on the article talk page, and the listing on Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette alerts#19 February 2007 about the user. — Æ. ✉ 02:13, 19 February 2007 (UTC) → (Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette alerts/archive11)

Athaenara, thank you for your response. For the record, I'm not trying to "win", just looking not to have people, like MoeLarryJesus label me as someone who I'm not. So, trying to make it easier for everyone involved, I've offered a compromise that sounds pretty good. what do you think?

I've askd MLJ if he could abide by it. It seems like a fair compromise. I am what I describe myself as—although I acknowledge that others, like MLJ, may see and label me differently. That seems to distill our thoughts on this. — Sethswirsky (talk) 05:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I think your wording (which the other user has reverted some five or more times) is appropriate, Seth, though please understand that I don't have a swing vote in the situation.
I walked into this minefield after Jheditorials posted a request for a third opinion on WP:3O, which is just one of several projects in which ordinary Wikipedians participate in pursuit of the common goal of consensus building to achieve the neutral encyclopedic point of view in articles.
That didn't work out, because a disruptive user who has a particular agenda and assumes bad faith in all other editors won't respond to neutral third opinions. This "MLJ" user seems to have thoroughly intimidated the editor who posted the WP:3O request, and neither of them seem to understand the informal nature of the WP:3O process.
We're all on learning curves, though. I confess I really don't get the blind spot some people have about conservatives who are also Democrats. "Liberal" and "Democrat" are not actually synonyms. — Æ. ✉ 06:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Athaenara. (is this the correct place to write you? Again, first day on Misplaced Pages—I wouldn't even be here if I really wasn't being harrassed (if you could see the nasty emails I get personally by this "Moe Larry Jesus" person!) I made my case, I rebutted his points, I even offered a compromise, even though I think what Jheditorial wrote on my page was correct—and why shouldn't it be: he (Jheditorial) probably got that I was a "Scoop" Jackson Democrat because he researched the internet and there it was in numerous places (counter to MLJ's "opinion" that I am a conservatove—and, a "self-described" one at that (show me once where I describe myself that way!). This is disheartening. Where am I in all of this? I just really don't appreciate being labeled as something I'm not in what is a "hit job" being done on me by someone who doesn't like my politics, clearly. Again, thanks for listening. — Sethswirsky (talk) 12:09, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Athaenara—another day, another revert by MoeLarryjesus, the bane of my existence—what do you know! Can I get some advice for what I do now that the moment he woke up this morning, despite your reprimand and my compromise proposal, he reverted my page back. Do I file some kind of harrassment complaint and how do I do this? This is a political hit job being done on me because he does not like my politics and cannot believe I am a Democrat. Oy! Any suggestions would be welcome because I have more important things to do, as do you. I've offered a compromise, but his description of me is completely wrong and not fair, not backed up by anything on the web, although my own description is, as I've pointed out numerous times. Furthermore, coupled with the personal email attacks I get from him, his vandalizing my page is getting a little scary. Thanks again for your time. — Sethswirsky (talk) 18:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Hang in there. — Athænara ✉ 20:24, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Seth, your success in Misplaced Pages:Staying cool when the editing gets hot, remaining civil in an extremely distressing situation in which you have been repeatedly and apparently maliciously provoked, is admirable. — Athænara ✉ 01:16, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
→ (MLAJ posts returned to sender with request to refrain from using this user talk page for continued Misplaced Pages:Harassment of the subject of a Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons article.) — Æ.

Athaenara—I appreciate your assistance (this may be the wrong place to ask you this, but not knowing the rules of Misplaced Pages, this is the only place I know to reach someone who understands this case). MoeLarryJesus is at it again: He's now vandalized another section of the page… I've changed it back but this is truly ridiculous already. How do I get someone at Misplaced Pages to see what this guy is doing? He has some kind of hatred for me so he's terrorizing me (or trying to) in public. I'm asking for your help in this matter. If I can contact someone, or you can—anything—to get this guy banned—rules for vandals were made for people like him. Sorry to ask you this but what would you do? I've posted this on a Sethswirsky talk page, and again, sorry to re-state this here—I just don't know where to turn next? Thank you. — Sethswirsky (talk) 03:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

It might have turned a corner—see recent post on the bio talk page. — Athænara ✉ 10:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

You would have thought a corner would have been turned—if I didn't see the goings on with my own eyes, I wouldn't believe it. Two new editors, Sanchom and HollisMusicGuy both weighed in and their description is dead on accurate—a perfect compromise, everyone's happy. But not MLJ! he has reverted their edits now 3 times just this morning. Moreover, instead of just letting it be, he now is insistent on posting the amazon.com sales numbers for my just released CD, which is an unfair piece of info (even if it was #1) because it changes by the hour. It was meant by him as a slight. If it's not perfectly clear that this person has it "out" for me personally, and should be banned from "editing" my page, I don't know when it will be. Other editors are acting in good faith, but not him. Last thing: read this. Clearly, this is a debate forum for him, not a place for consensus. Again, thank you! — Sethswirsky (talk) 11:19, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

  • 3RR Report: 08:59, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • 3RR Result: 20:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Blocked: 20:32, 20 February 2007 (UTC) with an expiry time of 24 hours - extreme 3RR violation (more than 10 reverts) after warnings

→ Postscript: Blocked user returned after 24 hours (01:31, February 22 2007 UTC), resuming similar behaviour (while so far avoiding more 3RR violations) on Seth Swirsky and Talk:Seth Swirsky.

Take 2

Hi Athaenara, remember me? Seth Swirsky -- Again, I don't know if this is the place to request you look at something --you were completely sympathetic to the vandalism being done to my page by MoeLarryJesus last week --well, he's at it again.

This guy will not go away. Read his hateful comments on my discussion page. He now has deleted my "Political Writing" section of my entry entirely. He's using a different name to do this. Do you know how many people write political articles for big-time blogs, as I do? Michelle Malkin, Bill Maher, David Sirota, Cenk Uygur — and they have their writing archived and spoken about in their Misplaced Pages article. But MoeLarryJesus is on a mission to get mine taken off. You got him suspended for a day — but he seriously needs to be blocked from my page forever.

A, can you re-visit this? This is insanity (and I'm sure he's loving every minute of it.) It was true what I told you: he did write a scary email to me personally. He claims he didn't but what a coincidence that the email address was from MoeLarryJesus@____.com! Help! Sethswirsky (talk) 00:01, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

(1.) Hi Seth—I remember when you posted on Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette alerts#19 February 2007 last month: "For the record, the date of last harrassing email from MoeLarryandJesus was February 9, 2007 12:49:30 AM PST."   (Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette alerts/archive11#19 February 2007)
A few days ago, I asked Newyorkbrad (the admin who handled the 24 hour 3RR block) about the deletion of content from your userpage, on User talk:Newyorkbrad#Further thoughts. Please bring this to his attention there (you can quote this post if you want) and if you type five tildes ~~~~~ after your name he will know what time you posted. OK? Good luck! — Athænara ✉ 01:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC) → Archived: see below.
(2.) There were—this will not surprise you—other disruptions. The user was blocked, with "(…account creation blocked) with an expiry time of indefinite (Troll)"  in the summary, following a Requests for comment process:   → (opened) → (debated) → (closed).
Because there really should be consequences to email harrassment, you might also want to follow through on the suggestion I offered last month about using the Misplaced Pages:Contact us/Article problem/Factual error (from subject) process. — Æ. ✉ 03:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
(3.) After an admin told him he should not have removed content from your user talkpage, the user complained on WP:ANI. I posted a comment there with diffs, timestamps, and quotes a few minutes ago. — Athænara ✉ 03:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)   → (That whole section is now archived.)
(4.) Miscellaneous related updates:
- (first) "laughable" "self-important" "mealy-mouthed editors" "getting into tizzies"
- (third) pulled the "chuckles" ploy on an administrator.
It was all about disrupting Misplaced Pages to make a point. — Athænara ✉ 10:22, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

(As of 11:28, 5 March 2007 (UTC): user block reduced from indefinite to 48 hours.)

→ Postscript:  "MoeLarryAndJesus" username contribs now under new username.


Thank you

A -

You've only heard from me when I needed help but I just wanted to say a sincere "Thank You" for being of great assistance to me with "you know who" (dare I say his name!). You are a fantastic editor who really cares. Again, thank you!

Seth Swirsky 14:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Carla Martin

Athaenara, thanks for your help with Carla Martin. I haven't been doing this for too long so I wasn't sure what the next step was in dealing with Schmetterling et al. PubliusFL 21:20, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. (It wouldn't hurt to thank the admin who blocked her, too :-)  This may not be the end of the disruptive editing, but at least there's a breather for a bit, and the user may have gained some understanding of how far her editing patterns deviate from Misplaced Pages policies and guideliness. One hopes so, at any rate. — Athænara ✉ 21:28, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, "not the end" is right: Oh well! PubliusFL 06:18, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
One's hopes were dashed—but your second report has yielded results: thirty one hours this time. — Æ. ✉ 08:59, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Schmetterling seems to be evading the block with an anon IP. I have requested a checkuser. PubliusFL 19:16, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Fast results (open proxy blocked) too, good work! — Æ. ✉ 00:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Fans and brand management

Hi there, thanks for so thoroughly putting a lid on that Clamp thing - just another example of fandom-infused purism, I'm afraid. Speaking of fans with strong opinions, you seem to be right, that RfC on Darkcat21 isn't really going anywhere. But on the plus side, it's been rather quiet around the X Japan article the past few weeks, which is good. Anyhow, there is currently another move request to reduce stylization going on (for ×××HOLiC, one of Clamp's works). Given that there is already a bunch of people around who are irrevocably opposed to the idea of standardized capitalization, you are more than just welcome to join us. Take care - Cyrus XIII 11:11, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd choose "HOLiC" myself. I'll think about it. — Athænara ✉ 13:30, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Strikeout What, am I nuts? "Holic" is better. — Æ. 00:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Holic. Just Holic. No exes. — Æ. 14:39, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I posted my support for "Holic" on Talk:×××HOLiC#Evil polls. There has been at least another yard of dispute since you posted about it here, Cyrus, so I'm glad I waited. — Athænara ✉ 09:11, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Burt Reynolds

A Request for comment on Burt Reynolds' birthplace has been opened at Talk:Burt Reynolds#Request for Comment. -- Donald Albury 21:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for notifying me of that discussion. I stayed out of it, because I didn't see anything I could contribute to it. I'm glad to see that the disputes there were finally resolved. — Athænara ✉ 05:46, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Naeim Giladi

Hello, Thank you very much for your input at Naeim Giladi; now peace has finally broken out on that article after edit-warring for months. Here I should insert a bouquet of flowers, but since I´m no good at inserting pictures I´m afraid you just have to imagine them!

I have not been on Misplaced Pages for a few weeks, so when I tried to look at the WP:BLP/N it had been archived. However, there seem to be something wrong with the link (?) Regards, Huldra 11:16, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. Try the link again—the section you're looking for is the third one in that archive. — Athænara ✉ 12:36, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Suhayl Saadi

Suhayl Saadi may be correctly sent to AfD. What do you think? Hello Athaenara. I have you pegged as an inclusionist in my mind, so you may have another opinion on this article, which is now at the top of the list on the COI noticeboard. I'm the only one who put in a good word for it, while you've actually Wikified it. When an article is already a COI (written by the author), and doesn't have a club of supporters, and the 'unreferenced' tag has been there for two months, don't you think it's had its chance? The author has not done much on WP except edit this article. Since not much work has been invested in it by the general WP community, little would be lost. The subject is not so notable that we are incomplete as an encyclopedia without him. He can always come back when he has time to do the references. EdJohnston 20:46, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Um. No  :-D   — Athænara ✉ 13:44, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello, sorry I reverted your addition to the Glasgow article as it was placed in a section which was not appropriate, you may wish to add him to the List of Glaswegians article instead. Fraslet 10:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

No problem, I didn't know the list article existed. — Athænara ✉ 10:22, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Duggar family

In re 3RR warning

What the h? Well u know what, pls tell this to as well. Surely u see that is reverting repeatedly. Also, how come u didnt sign ur msg? Lilkunta 20:08, 1 April 2007 (UTC).

Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines such as Biographies of living persons, Neutral point of view, Disruptive editing, Tendentious editing, and the Three-revert rule are just that: policies and guidelines, not personal.
If you become familiar with their contents, you will be much less confused about how they apply and why good editors respect them. I am unsympathetic to editors who complain that policy pages are too long and don't do their homework. — Athænara ✉ 21:27, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
RFC

I would like to file an RFC on Lilkunta. I have tried and tried to explain why their behavior is not acceptable. They are increasing in hostility and I would just like it to end. One of the requirements for RFC on users is that at least two editors try and fail to resolve the same dispute. Would you please prod them to come to the mediation request, or otherwise "try" (per the RFC definition) to resolve the dispute? If that fails, I think the RFC would be appropriate. I am really sick of cleaning up Talk:Jim Bob Duggar after Lilkunta sprinkles their comments inside my comments, removes indentation, makes attacks, etc, etc, etc.

As I was writing this, they just started on another round of reverts at Talk:Jim Bob Duggar. Joie de Vivre 22:37, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I have tried to resolve it as well: that requirement is met. I will support such a Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/User conduct … — Athænara ✉ 22:46, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Postscript: Remember that such an Rfc is not about article content but specifically about user conduct. Be as succinct as you can and provide pertinent diffs. — Æ. ✉ 22:54, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Langan entry

Hi, just letting you know I left a comment for you on the BLP noticeboard regarding the situation at Christopher Michael Langan. Thanks for your interest. FNMF 01:59, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the heads-up, I'll have a look soon. — Athænara ✉ 02:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

That's great. Thanks for that. FNMF 04:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome—if you mean this, it took almost exactly one hour and let me work off some anger at determinedly time-wasting non-neutral editors. — Æ. ✉ 05:01, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
That is what I meant, and I'm glad you are now very well informed on this entry! I hope you'll keep an eye on proceedings. Thanks again. FNMF 05:06, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

John T. Reed

  • (Subsection still active, not yet archived.)

Cat Porter

Thanks for your help with Cat Porter. Not being British, and having never heard of the person or the show, I have no idea why this anon keeps making these edits. Is there some sort of controversy? Corvus cornix 21:14, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, either, but the article was posted on the BLP Noticeboard today. I've begun going through the article history to identify repeat vandals and place warnings on their talk pages. Want to help? — Athænara ✉ 21:18, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, I was the one that placed it on the noticeboard. I've been trolling Recent changes, and haven't gotten to the new BLP Recent changes page yet.  :) Corvus cornix 21:20, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Gene R. Nichol

I received your note re: the 3RR issue on Gene R. Nichol. As you noticed, I was reverting the changes made by users Too late gn, Hawaiibound and Onestop53. The same issue is going on with The College of William & Mary (with the same issues and the same users).

I should certainly have adhered more closely to the "step away from the Misplaced Pages" notion. However, I do want to note that I have asked those three for their input both on their talk pages (which they promptly cleared) and on the W&M talk page (to which I have received no response).

I will refrain from reverting their edits, as I should have previously, but, if you have a minute to look at the W&M talk page, I would certainly invite a third-party opinion.

Thanks, Cka3n 23:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I think I should have posted this here before, not in your gallery talk page. Cka3n 23:37, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
That's ok, it was easily cleared. — Athænara ✉ 23:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Is there a forum or a guideline akin to the BLP guidelines which I could refer to re: the William and Mary page (which is, to be honest, the true focus)? Thanks again for the information. Cka3n 00:38, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

The Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard is a suitable venue. Edits of university articles by single purpose accounts with conflict of interest—see for example the Georgetown University and George Washington University sections in the COI/N Archive 3—have previously been addressed there in the past several months. — Athænara ✉ 01:08, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks; I will try that. Cka3n 01:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I just want to mention that I think you've been conscientious throughout all this. Sometimes I'm juggling three or more things at once and my posts are a little more terse than I'd like them to be, so I might not have gotten that point across. — Æ. ✉ 06:50, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


Category: