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Reverts about sourced content concerning the pre-Modern harmony between Yazidis and Sunnis.
@KurdeEzidi Greetings, since this seems to become a rather major discussion, it will be brought to the discussion page now. First, I want to acknowledge that I appreciate a lot of efforts you have put into that article, and also to learn more about Yazidis by that myself. However, I have to disagree with your last comment on the revert.
If I am not mistaken, the source in questions is "The Yazidi Genocide: An Introduction | Post Conflict Research Center (p-crc.org)", a internationally respected organization (Awards | Post Conflict Research Center (p-crc.org)). The webpage is further very transparent about their structure and members. If there is anything objectable about their work or the source, please let us know here. Further, the claim has been made in the previous edit summary, that 1. there is no support for the claim the citation was used for 2. that it contradicts the histrory section.
1. I would like to quote the passage I derived the claim from:
Despite various state-sanctioned violence against the Yazidis, historically, their day-to-day existence was one of tolerance and cooperation with their Sunni Muslim neighbors. While intermarriage was rare, friendships and working relationships were common between Yazidis and Sunnis, who often lived in close proximity to one another.
I do not see any ambiguity here. If I have overseen anything, please point it out.
2. The history section has a lot of uncited claims and even if we do not doubt their accuracy, it does not mean that the other statement is not true as well. The problem is simply, it is hard to retrace the claims and we have to rely on common knowledge and what is consistent with the sources offered. Furthermore, I think ambiguity between Sunni and non-Sunni identities is reconcilable, given that one of the most important persons in Yazidi faith is a disciple of a well-respected Sunni Shaikh who pretty much taught Sunni theology to the Yazidi-Kurds. This does not deny that persecution did not happen, rather that it was not continually happening over hundres of years. Violance on the other hand, happened to all sorts of minorities, especially when sanctioned by a state, in order to remain control.
I agree that there should be a better elaboration on the actual historic dynamics between Sunnis, state-authorities, and Yazidis in the history section, but a quick note on the ambiguity of actual Yazidi lifes throughout history in the lead-section is more helpful than doing harm. It avoids the errornous impression that persecution was an ongoing event for 1000 years, while it is rather a modern, and thanks to ISIS and PKK, continuing as a post-modern phenomena.
Please give me an explanation on the exact problem, since I do not see either an issue with the source nor that the claim is in odds with the history section. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 17:25, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- "while it is rather a modern, and thanks to ISIS and PKK"
- You are clearly pushing an agenda. The PKK is an ally to the Eizidi and formed an entire coalition to help them be liberated from ISIS. The Eizidi aren't being prosecuted by the PKK. They have faced ongoing oppression and ethnic cleansing by ISIS and Turkey via Afrin.
- https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/2020/04/20/afrin-syria-kurdish-population-more-than-halved-since-2018-turkish-invasion
- https://www.syriandemocratictimes.com/2021/06/26/a-new-face-of-genocide-settlements-in-afrin-syria/
- https://www.voanews.com/a/afrin-syria-minorities-fear-persecution/4234119.html 70.29.13.217 (talk) 02:02, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- @VenusFeuerFalle
- As mentioned by @70.29.13.217, it is clearly incorrect to state that, the persecution suffered by Yazidis at the hands of their Muslim neighbours is a phenomenon that can be attributed to the PKK, which is an irreligious political party with atheist Marxist-Leninist roots. The widely known fact that the PKK in reality saved the Yazidis from ISIS during their advance through Iraq in 2014, an event which was widely covered by global media and is also mentioned in this Misplaced Pages article, makes your claim even more disturbing. Citing the aforementioned Misplaced Pages article:
- "During the Sinjar massacre, in which the Islamic State killed and abducted thousands of the trapped Yazidis, the United States and the United Kingdom began carrying out airstrikes on the advancing Islamic State militants, while the People's Defense Units and the Kurdistan Workers' Party jointly formed a humanitarian corridor to evacuate the rest of the Yazidi refugees from the Sinjar Mountains." Serbazrebaz (talk) 18:25, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Semsûrî
- Can you please remove the PKK bit? Please read the entire talk page as there's been multiple complaints. We can't seem to fix the misinformation being pushed on the Yazidi page as it's locked. 70.27.25.166 (talk) 08:28, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- Source? VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 22:45, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
- “The PKK saved us. They cleared a path for us so we could escape the Sinjar Mountains into Syria.”
- “Thank God for the PKK and YPG .”
- “If it wasn’t for the Kurdish fighters, we would have died up there.”
- https://theworld.org/stories/2016/07/30/if-it-wasn-t-kurdish-fighters-we-would-have-died-there
- "Yazidi volunteer defenders, the Syrian Kurdish forces (YPG) and Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), along with an international coalition led by the United States, led to the opening of a safe passage from Mount Sinjar to Syria from 7 to 13 August 2014. The United Nations Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic (‘Inquiry on Syria’) found that IS’s actions against the Yazidis amounted to multiple war crimes and crimes against humanity, as well as genocide."
- https://www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Committee/421/CIMM/Brief/BR9342569/br-external/Yazda-e.pdf
- A U.S.-designated terrorist group is saving yazidis and battling the Islamic State
- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/08/11/a-u-s-designated-terrorist-group-is-saving-yazidis-and-battling-the-islamic-state/
- There's even an entire Wikipage stating the PKK helped the Yazidi's:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/Sinjar_massacre
- And to top it all off. The cited link states KDP, not the PKK. The rest is Turkish propaganda sites which does not coincide with English journalism as well as Yazidi's themselves saying they were saved by the PKK. 70.27.25.111 (talk) 23:31, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- @TataofTata
- Can you please help help us to fix this issue? The PKK should not be listed along side ISIS, as the PKK fought against ISIS and has a history of helping and saving Yazidi's. A Turkish user is actively spreading false information and using Turkish propaganda Media even though there's numerous cited sources and even a Misplaced Pages page regarding the PKK helping Yazidis. 70.27.25.111 (talk) 01:02, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
Misinformation and bias
“In modern times, Yazidis face persecution by the PKK”
this is misinformation as PKK is clearly being stated as a an ally of Yezidis, there’s no source behind this so called persecution of Yezidis by PKK. 185.56.193.110 (talk) 18:18, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Missinformation
this is misinformation as PKK is clearly being stated as a an ally of Yezidis, there’s no source behind this so called persecution of Yezidis by PKK. The PKK helped the Yezidis against the turkish state 2A02:8206:89DC:6300:855:3A64:D57A:7A3C (talk) 19:37, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Incorrect information and severe bias
Hello,
In the revision as of 11:15, 28 January 2024 of this page, user @VenusFeuerFalle added a claim that is problematic at best and plain incorrect at worst. The claim's dubious nature is worsened by the fact that the user is a citizen of Turkey, a country which does not have an unbiased role in this wider Middle-Eastern conflict.
The claim presented by @VenusFeuerFalle is cited below:
"In modern times, Yazidis face persecution by the PKK and ISIS."
Two sources are provided for this claim: one article from The Washington Institute, and an opinion written by Bilgay Duman in Milliyet, a Turkish newspaper. I will begin by covering the opinion article from Milliyet.
The article cited from Milliyet is written by Bilgay Duman, a researcher from Turkey with a focus on the Middle East. He does not, however, seem to be an authority on Yazidis or Yazidi history. Additionally, his previous news articles have often shown support to the Turkish government. This in conjunction with the fact that the article is an opinion, leads to the conclusion that the source must be seen as an opinion from a person who is not an authority on the topic. Additionally, Milliyet is a Turkish newspaper that, according to Media Bias/Fact Check, has mixed factual reporting, is owned by a pro-government company, and usually publish articles that are supportive of a government that is conducting active warfare against the PKK. This makes the source heavily biased pertaining to the topic at hand. Combining the bias, the opinionated nature of the article, and the writer's lack of authority makes this source weak.
Because the claim that references this source is so contradictory to commonly-accepted facts that the PKK in fact protected and saved the Yazidis from religious extremists combined with the weakness of the source itself, it must be rejected.
The article from The Washington Post relates to intra-Kurdish conflicts related to PKK and KDP rivarly, in this particular case manifesting in the PKK's control of Sinjar, to the ire of the KDP which controlled the area until 2014. It does not whatsoever mention any persecution by the PKK against the Yazidis. Rather, it details the conflict between the PKK and KDP and minor skirmishes that have occurred throughout the years, and how this affects the Yazidis. The article also covers Turkey's relationship in this Kurdish rivarly, further highlighting Turkey's very active role in this conflict.
Because of the reasons stated above, this incorrect claim should be removed from the article. Serbazrebaz (talk) 19:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
"Because the claim that references this source is so contradictory to commonly-accepted facts that the PKK in fact protected and saved the Yazidis from religious extremists combined with the weakness of the source itself, it must be rejected."
- Dear User, with all due to respect, nothing said here resonates with what is generally known. Quite contrarily, the PKK is recognized as a Radical Left-Wing Terrorist Organization, attempting to overthrow the Turkish State and to establish a communist revolution. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 22:48, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
- I usually adhere to the idea that "something stated without evidence can be disregaded without evidence. However, since I just recently made the awful experience that even questionable claims can get a lots of attention, it is better to clarify potential confusing on a matter. Therefore, I decided to offer a few sources as introduction into the topic:
- The Paradox of Legitimacy: Resilience, Successes, and the Multiple Identities of the
Kurdistan Workers’ Party in Turkey. Particular attention, in the context of this article, should be paid to the following quote:
In response to the PKK’s common practice of coercive recruitment tactics, the Turkish military forcibly relocated Kurdish villagers into major urban centers that proved to be fertile areas for PKK recruitment.
- https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/conflict-between-turkey-and-armed-kurdish-groups, for a general overview of the conflict.
- https://www.dailysabah.com/politics/yazidis-long-for-homeland-occupied-by-terrorist-group-pkk/news , another Tukish source but an alternative to Milliyat.
- https://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/eca/turkey/kurd.htm. a rather Turkish critical article.
Please note, that this article does not intent to make moral judgement about political decissions, rather it is abuot the truthfullness concerning the claim that the PKK is a threat to Yazidis.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 01:08, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
- “The PKK saved us. They cleared a path for us so we could escape the Sinjar Mountains into Syria.”
- “Thank God for the PKK and YPG .”
- “If it wasn’t for the Kurdish fighters, we would have died up there.”
- https://theworld.org/stories/2016/07/30/if-it-wasn-t-kurdish-fighters-we-would-have-died-there
- "Yazidi volunteer defenders, the Syrian Kurdish forces (YPG) and Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), along with an international coalition led by the United States, led to the opening of a safe passage from Mount Sinjar to Syria from 7 to 13 August 2014. The United Nations Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic (‘Inquiry on Syria’) found that IS’s actions against the Yazidis amounted to multiple war crimes and crimes against humanity, as well as genocide."
- https://www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Committee/421/CIMM/Brief/BR9342569/br-external/Yazda-e.pdf
- A U.S.-designated terrorist group is saving yazidis and battling the Islamic State
- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/08/11/a-u-s-designated-terrorist-group-is-saving-yazidis-and-battling-the-islamic-state/
- There's even an entire Wikipage stating the PKK helped the Yazidi's:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/Sinjar_massacre
- And to top it all off. The cited link states KDP, not the PKK. The rest is Turkish propaganda sites which does not coincide with English journalism as well as Yazidi's themselves saying they were saved by the PKK. 70.29.13.217 (talk) 00:18, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 August 2024
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We yezidis ar not kurds so remove the first text and don't say that we are kurds because its not the truth, "Yazidism is an ethnic religion." change it to that. And not a group of kurdisch community or something, some kurd hate us more than isis. DIANAAA.2 (talk) 23:21, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 23:28, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 August 2024 (2)
| This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
X
Ethnoreligious group or Kurdish minority primarily from northern IraqY Template:Yezidism is a monotheistic, ancient religion practiced primarily by the Yezidi people, an ethnoreligious group primarily from northern Iraq DIANAAA.2 (talk) 23:31, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
- Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 23:41, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
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