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User talk:Jimbo Wales

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This is Jimbo Wales's talk page, where you can send them messages and comments.
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Archives
Index -index-
  1. September – December 2005
  2. January 2006
  3. January – February 2006
  4. February 2006
  5. February 2006, cont.
  6. March 2006
  7. April 2006 - late May 2006
  8. May 24 - July 2006
  9. July 2006 - August 2006
  10. August 2006
  11. Most of September 2006
  12. Late September 2006 - Early November 2006
  13. Most of November 2006
  14. Late November 2006 - December 8, 2006
  15. December 9, 2006 - Mid January 2007
  16. From December 22, 2006 blanking
  17. Mid January 2007 - Mid February 2007
  18. Mid February 2007- Feb 25, 2007
  19. From March 2, 2007 blanking
  20. March 2-5, 2007
  21. March 5-11, 2007
  22. March 11 - April 3, 2007
  23. April 2 - May 2, 2007
  24. May 3 - June 7, 2007
  25. June 9 - July 4, 2007
  26. July 13 - August 17, 2007
  27. August 17 - September 11, 2007
  28. September 14 - October 7, 2007
  29. October 28 - December 1, 2007
  30. December 2 - December 16, 2007
  31. December 15 - January 4, 2008
  32. January 4 - January 30, 2008
  33. January 30 - February 28, 2008
  34. February 28 - March 11, 2008
  35. March 9 - April 18, 2008
  36. April 18 - May 30, 2008
  37. May 30 - July 27, 2008
  38. July 26 - October 4, 2008
  39. October 4 - November 12, 2008
  40. November 10 - December 10, 2008
  41. December 5 - December 25, 2008
  42. December 25 - January 16, 2009
  43. January 15 - January 27, 2009
  44. January 26 - February 10, 2009
  45. February 8 - March 18, 2009
  46. March 18 - May 6, 2009
  47. May 5 - June 9, 2009
  48. June 10 - July 11, 2009
  49. July 12 - August 29, 2009

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Revision of history

Six years ago I said this was an interesting experiment, two or three years ago I pointed out fundamental problems causing Misplaced Pages to distort and conceal facts from the public. You ignored my suggestions then, perhaps you think we Xanadu people are too old for you and don't have any good ideas - I don't know why you've allowed this to devolve into a social club for self-righteous and those with a vested agenda.

Smile!

IsuzuAxiom1007 (talk • contribs) has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

ASIJ

Hi, Mr Wales, I met you recently, you came to my school ASIJ. Thought I'd mention that. Why do alot of Admins delete accurate information on wikipedia, insult me, then inform me that the information is inaccurate?

Yours Sincerely, Alexander Turner aturner@turnerzworld.com

Thank You!

Smokizzy has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Help with Wiki-rules.

Hi Jim,

My compliments, you look and seem like a great guy. I'm a newbie to Misplaced Pages and thus I'm trying to understand its structure. I posted a link - that I've come to learn that Misplaced Pages rules discourage posting your own like, but don't prohibit it. However, I did and an individual ( Ruhrfisch) reverted the link, failing to follow Misplaced Pages rules and had no justifiable reasons for doing so. When I questioned his actions he became highly defensive and attacked me...a course of events that Misplaced Pages rules state will happen when someone like Ruhrfisch does what he did.

Now, I'm having the most difficult time trying to find anyone in authority at Misplaced Pages who will make a ruling based on Misplaced Pages rules and not on opinion. Everyone seems to say that no one will do this, which begs the question - Why have rules if no one is going to uphold them?

Please direct me to someone who can assist me in taking this issue through the proper channels so that it can be resolved civilly, based on Wiki-rules. Thank you! DaVoice 22:55, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Can you give us a link to the post? --KZ 04:57, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
On closer look at the RFC, it seems to me that Ruhrfisch acted properly when removing that link. As the RFC stated, the link failed the guidelines of WP:EL. And also, may I remind you that consensus by many editors usually reflects the policies and guidelines of Misplaced Pages, not personal opinion. --KZ 05:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


This is my point exactly...Ruhrfisch did not act according to Misplaced Pages rules as I've indicated numerous times stating Wiki-Rules throughout that discussion. He only states opinions and yes in his opinion it fails. However, Wiki-Rules clearly state that a link that supports, gives credence to, items stated in the article are allowed. How is it that a link to photographs and articles about Newton Falls, Ohio and to the events listed in the article do not give credence to the article or fail to meet Wiki-Rules? Is it this clique? The very clique that Jim Wales speaks against having at Misplaced Pages? For Jim's sake...you allow a link to photos of a tornado, how less then is a link to photos about the Car Show, Bike Show, Cake Walk, Carnival, 44444 Event, Fishing Derby - or articles about the winners? Anyone can make a statement based on opinion, this is why Misplaced Pages has rules - or is it? Are you suggesting that I go around as a "watchdog" reverting links similar or worse than, such as the Youngstown Vindicator - Baltimore Sun? If a link to the | Newton Falls Leader is inappropriate, then based on Ruhrfisch's opinion a link to these newspapers should be reverted! DaVoice 16:06, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi Jim - Can only imagine how busy you are...but I'd like to get this issue settled. I realize that in the realm of things, this is minute, but this is also about Wikipedians like Rührfisch and his distructive behavior here at Misplaced Pages. A 1,000 pages on his watchdog list leaves a huge venue for abuse, and as a founder, I would hope that you are concerned about people like him destroying what you've created. DaVoice 14:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Speaking at VCU

I am very much looking forward to seeing you speak tomorrow at VCU. It will be very interesting to finally meet you. I'll see you tomorrow. All the best, ^demon 06:21, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

It was nice to meet you today. Unfortunate that you had to leave really quickly and get to the airport, but a nice experience nonetheless. I think the audience was very receptive to your speech and ideologies. All the best, ^demon 21:49, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, great presentation. It was great to meet you and talk to you, even if only for a minute. :) --Coredesat 23:25, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Keep up the good work. --StevenL 03:32, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

FYI: per Misplaced Pages:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#Department_of_Art_Education_-_Virginia_Commonwealth_University__.28history.7CWatchlist_this_article.7Cunwatch.29_.5Bwatchlist.3F.5D I've full protected the Virginia Commonwealth University article for one month. Durova 08:02, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

After receiving some polite communication from the faculty I've unprotected the article and launched Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Classroom coordination as a venue where professional educators can get guidance with experienced Wikipedians about incorporating Misplaced Pages writing into classroom assignments. The idea had been at proposal stage for nearly a month and generated some interest so it was easy to implement it now. I'd like to get get the word out about the new WikiProject, perhaps a few lines in the Chronicle of Higher Education, and am interfacing with people from the Foundation toward that end. Durova 03:53, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Gift for you

Dress Sword of Misplaced Pages
In appreciation for being the genius behind Misplaced Pages, I present you with this dress sword. Feel free to wear it at any black tie event or other ceremonial affair. SU Linguist 19:09, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

You might be interested/concerned

I've just left the following at WP:AN/I, touching on an issue that's concerned me for a while (not the specific question but the general one):

I've somehow got entangled in a large set of articles — one for each episode of a couple of Disney situation comedies (for children): That's So Raven and Cory in the House (neither of which I'd heard of before, and both of which I wish I never had). See, for example Ain't Miss Bahavian, on which I've just done a lot of work, reduced from this (not the worst by a long way).
The articles were typically long and sprawling, often with immensely long and poorly written plot "summaries", trivia sections, poor formatting, etc. I did my best to tidy them, and met determined opposition from a few editors, one in particular – Kid1412 (talk · contribs) – getting very emotional and abusive, though calming down after the intervention of a couple of other editors, and being cooperative for now. He or she has now admitted, though, to writing the plot summaries (or some of them, at least) while watching the series. There are no online or other sources so far as I can tell.
Now, it's not important in one sense; as with more than half the articles here, the subjects are trivial, and who cares whether the summaries are accurate, well-written, properly formatted, etc.? (The same goes for the pop-music articles that I try to clean up and defend.) From the Misplaced Pages point of view, though, it presumably does matter. Or does it? Is our position that the guidelines and policies are only really for proper articles, and the fanzine side of things can be safely ignored, and allowed to go its own way? There are countless articles documenting the entire outputs of minor pop singers and bands, every episode and character in minor children's television series, discographies going into obsessive detail, all breaking many if not most of the formatting guidelines in the MoS and the relevant WikoProjects, including the fair use of images.
My specific question is: what should I do about the case that I mentioned at the beginning? In theory the plot summaries should all be removed (in theory, I think, all the articles should go as being insignificant and making no claim to significance).
My general question is: are we going to pay attention to the vast mass of the Misplaced Pages iceberg which most editors and admins prefer to ignore — the fancruft below Misplaced Pages's plimsoll line? If so, then I'll just remove all the articles from my Watchlist and breathe a sigh of relief. If not, then I'll need a lot more help...

I thought that you might be interested (and share my concern). --Mel Etitis (Talk) 10:18, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

My take is that as long as it is in principle attributable to some stored version that has beenpublished on the air or over cable and can be expected to soon be on DVDs that it should not be deleted on grounds of WP:ATT. WAS 4.250 10:45, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

There have been a number of responses at WP:AN/I, many of them sharing my concern. The opinion has been offered, and seems to be popular, that Misplaced Pages is just doomed to have a significant number of SIG areas that go against Misplaced Pages guidelines and policies, and we should more or less rope them off and let editors there do what they want. It would make my life a lot easier, but I can't agree. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 22:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
"If you aren't having fun editing Misplaced Pages, then you are doing it wrong" is what I always tell people. WAS 4.250 14:16, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Forgive me if I say that that's not only simplistic but straightforwardly false. Hell is (at least very often) other people. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 17:37, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

See this, SqueakBox 17:42, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikitravel

Wikitravel uses the MediaWiki software, which is also used by Misplaced Pages. However, Wikitravel is not a Wikimedia project; it was begun independently. Unlike Misplaced Pages, it uses the Creative Commons Attribution ShareAlike license rather than the GNU Free Documentation License. What I wish to ask is that can I also start up with any such project like wikipedia or wikitravels with the help of mediaWiki software and that to free of cost. Thanks Sushant gupta 10:31, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah sure, the MediaWiki software is free to download and use for whatever you want. Go to http://www.mediawiki.org/ for details and downloads. --Sherool (talk) 14:35, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Not all Wikimedia projects are GFDL licensed; a notable exception is Wikinews, which is CC-by-sa. hbdragon88 21:55, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

A minor correction: Wikinews uses CC-by, not CC-by-sa. --Dapeteばか 21:50, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Concern regarding zealous admin

Writing a biography for recently deceased Education Administrator Cliff Turney, I found the article scheduled for deletion.

I understand the process involved, and believe that articles should face ruthless editing.

My concern is that the reasons given for the deletion are illegitimate. The article details a person notable under every single category listed for Academic.

The work is unfinished, and if it is to be deleted out of hand, I don't feel like doing more .. of anything.

It gets more concerning for me, as the person who listed it for deletion has done so for other articles I have proposed, in the past. When I go to the talk page to write in support, I'm faced with a Greek chorus who don't seem to be acquainted with the notability guidelines, but they just make the ambit claim it doesn't match. Some comments, like "non-notable academic who probably, like the great mass of men, lived a life of quiet desperation." I similarly recall such a comment on a previous, unrelated article. DDB 13:47, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Instead of appealing to Jimbo (who almost never intervenes in matters like this), why not try voicing your concerns directly to the editor who nominated the article? This encyclopedia is a collaborative project, after all. And if your statement above is in reference to the very brief conversation that you had at Talk:Cliff Turney, then you've mis-characterized it completely. A Train 14:32, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Also be aware that deletion discussions usually remain open for several days. You can continue improving the article and very possibly get it retained, if you really can document through independent sources that the person satisfies notibility standards. Durova 15:48, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

This is whacked

Larry Sanger has gone from "co-founder" to "founder" http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/technology/s/1004/1004213_take_wikipedia_with_pinch_of_salt.html SakotGrimshine 15:51, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Several newspapers are doing this: Hut 8.5 16:57, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
And the Guardian: Odd that they'd all do the "founder" thing in their articles - I wonder if Larry Sanger's reaction came in a press release or something that provided all of them a basis to work from. (addendum: the Guardian story does later in the piece identify Sanger as "one of the founders" - but originally IDs him as the founder.) Tony Fox (arf!) 19:03, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
What I find funny is that that journalist from the MEN (Manchester Evening News, that's what we call it here in Manchester) made a mistake. He said "the Irish town of Mayo". Uh, no, that's Swinford in County Mayo. So he really has no right to go on about reported inaccuracies. --Deskana (fry that thing!) 21:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Canadian Heritage Alliance

I think we need a great deal of clarification on this article. One of the administrators continues to strip the article down to it's bare bones and there's a disagreement about what is considered to be legitimate sources. For example, this administrator has said that documents form the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal can not be used as sources unless there are sources from the mass media to back them up. The administrator is also stating (I might be putting words in thei person's mouth and if I'm wrong I apologize for that) sources from interested parties such as Matthew Lauder are unreliable (I include a sample of articles):

I think we would all appreciate some clarification on what is and is not a proper source. Thank you. AnnieHall 19:01, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

The best place to go for that is an article content request for comments. Durova 03:17, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I hereby request permission to alter Wikimedia Logos for my own public, non-profit use.

I know that those logos are copyrighted, so I am asking for permission before altering them in any way, or posting these alterations publicly. I have created a Google Co-op Wikimedia search engine for my own use, and I would like to combine - meaning place side by side in one image - several project logos in order to create a title image to use in place of the default text supplied by Google: "Wikimedia Search". The Search Engine is located here: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=002002171166015021901%3Aiz3pyuxcryc Alex460 04:47, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

You can also try asking m:User:Anthere, currently the chair of the board of the foundation. She might be faster to respond, since Jimbo is a bit occupied in general. --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 12:04, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

A couple of suggestions

You are probabaly aware of this, already, but I think it would be good to have a Wiki toolbar to gain easier access to search on Wiki. Other features could be added along, such as today's DYK, seperate search on Wikisource, etc. Apart from the toolbar, the search feature on Wiki could also be improved. One often needs to type in the correct text they are searching for, but if they're not certain of the correct spelling, they may get the wrong results, or no results at all. I also don't understand why the search engine makes a distinguishment between lower cases and capital cases. --Thus Spake Anittas 16:51, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

You'd probably have better luck discussing this at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical). —Remember the dot 02:17, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Disclosing my real life name and my real IP by checkuser Dmcdevit

Hi Jimbo. I am worried about this situation and I made a report at . Please look at it. Thanks.--MariusM 12:28, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

You have been impersonated on IRC

Hello Sir. I am just leaving a polite message to warn you that last night (14th April) / early hours of Sunday morning (April 15th), a user on IRC calling himself WoW8 (it is suspected he is a Willy on Wheels clone), changed his nickname to JimboWales7, and was attempting impersonate you on the #wikipedia-en, and #wikiversity-en channels on Freenode. After changing his nickname to JimboWales7, the user was asked to identify himself with your cloak, which He refused to do. Following a request to Freenode IRCops, one of the operators, Christel, placed a K_line against his IP (which is static) as a full network ban. I will be keeping a lookout on IRC in case he pops up again under a different IP. Thank you for your attention., Sir. Thor Malmjursson 15:20, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Did he claim to be Jimbo Wales or did he just choose that nickname? --Thus Spake Anittas 15:37, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
From memory, used nick and also claimed to be Jimbo despite objections and obvious evidence to the contrary. ShakespeareFan00 15:42, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Another impersonator appeared recently on #wikipedia and #wikipedia-en today under the nickname Jimbo_Wales2. // PTO 18:45, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!

I want to thank Jimbo for making Misplaced Pages. Now I can research (almost) everything whenever I want to! Right here on the 'Net. Misplaced Pages truly is an innovation of teh Internets. Thank you.

I am from Uncyclopedia, though. I largely ignore their Anti-Misplaced Pages stuff. Even though I am much more largely associated with them than here.

But thanks for Misplaced Pages.

-- An IP —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.73.111.231 (talk) 21:19, 15 April 2007 (UTC).

ED

I think it's time for the people of Misplaced Pages to stand against the ArbCom and add back in links to ED. Many of us also edit at ED, and would like links to edit it back in. What is wrong with ED? They are very informative about LiveJournal evemts! Hopefully you approve, or we poor workers will overthrow ArbCom and you! August 2 2005rps 01:17, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

What's "ED"? -- Hoary 01:22, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
No, it's not going to happen. ED is Encyclopedia Dramatica, a site that is well known for its attack pages on Wikipedians. // PTO 01:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I would add its attempts at disruption of Misplaced Pages process as well. For example, this attempt at an AFD by the above user. Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 01:40, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


I notice how people from ED with 1 or 2 edits go around nominating articles for deletion because ED got deleted (including the original poster of this thread). The site basically goes around bashing everyone who works to help any wiki that's not ED -- they even impersonated an administrator here and claimed she had a miscariage for her pregnancy and spread all these horrible rumors. ED is always spreading false rumors and should be banned forever. SakotGrimshine 15:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

They also have the Misplaced Pages logo on their page about us, a clear copyright violation. Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 20:04, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
They also eat kittens. 58.178.25.26 04:26, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Regaining Identity! User:Jeffrey Newman

I spent a little time with Misplaced Pages in 2005 and have returned occasionally to read stuff but could never log-in. My impatience level is high so I did not hang around. These past couple of days, I have realised that, since I want to do some serious work, it is worth persisting. But I am told that since when I originally created my account, I did not supply an e-mail address, it is impossible. Nothing is impossible - so I've come here to ask for help, hoping that you will not personally have to be involved but that someone else may pick up this request. As far as my queries re CIA, perhaps I watch too much West Wing (I received the whole set as a "65th" present from my family - I'm in the UK) but they would be stupid NOT to be ensuring Wiki survives - and though 'intelligence' might not be a characteristic, that level of stupidity is unimaginable. Experiences logging in to Misplaced Pages in Moscow were also interesting! But, since I have nothing to hide, I might as well join in. More than anything else, however - many congratulations on getting this whole enterprise up and running. It is 'awesome' (which is not an everyday word from an elderly Brit! Thank you. 85.210.255.81 01:52, 16 April 2007 (UTC) P.S. Why does "User Name:Jeffrey Newman" come out in red, not blue? - Jimbo: I really do NOT expect you, personally, to have to answer this!

The email reqirement is I believe for those who lose their password and want a new one emailed to them. If "nothing is impossible" them remember your old password. Otherwise, some things are impossible and you perhaps should create a new account. WAS 4.250 02:14, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I presume you mean User:Jeffrey Newman, and that is your real name. The procedure to recover your account would be as follows: Find an administrator (or other well-respected Wikipedian) who lives close to you and prove your identity to them. They should then contact a developer, who will set the email address on your account to the address you choose, and you can then use the normal password recovery system.
Developer time is a precious resource, and they probably would prefer not to get such requests, so as an alternative, consider getting a new account, perhaps User:Jeffrey X Newman where X is your middle initial, or User:JeffreyNewman without the space, or User:Jeff Newman if you don't mind the contraction of your name, and then move the old user and talk pages to the new name. This is the easiest way to go.-gadfium 03:47, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. NZ is almost as far from UK as it is possible to be (though we shall be there in December!) How do I find out if there is an Administrator in London, to whom I could pay a visit, or send a copy of my passport, or something? 85.210.255.81 04:59, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Look at Category:Wikipedians in London, and pick a name you recognise from 2005, or look for an intersection with Category:English Misplaced Pages administrators, neither of which will be comprehensive lists. You could also ask at the talk page of the Misplaced Pages:English Wikipedians' notice board. Before you go to any trouble, wait to get some responses to my idea, as the developers might not be willing to do such a thing, or it might not be possible for technical reasons (if the email address is encrypted in the database, for example).-gadfium 05:09, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't see any intersection of those categories, so the notice board is probably your best bet.-gadfium 05:17, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

It is generally quite rare for an account to be usurped, especially if the account does not have any permissions beyond "user" (though even then it's rare) and especially if no e-mail address was specified for the account. Nonetheless, proving your identity should not be all that difficult. I'm going to assume that you have an e-mail address with pipex.net. If this is the case, please contact privacy@pipex.net and ask them to e-mail me (or another admin) with confirmation that the e-mail address belongs to Jeffrey Newman, and then send me (or the same admin) an e-mail from that account verifying that it was you who made this request. Per the terms of their privacy policy this should be acceptable, and it should serve as adequate proof of your identity. The request can then be passed on to the devs, though it will likely take a very long time to complete. AmiDaniel (talk) 07:33, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Or, an interesting thing I just ran across, you might register with Trufina.com. Never used it before, but it looks like a fairly reliable way to prove one's identity. AmiDaniel (talk) 07:48, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Only for Americans, as far as I can see. It is geared around doing record searches based on a social security number. Metamagician3000 08:47, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

London Times

You may be interested in this letter which was pulished in this morning's edition of the London Times . Perhaps it is about time Misplaced Pages had an official spokesman/person to counter these negative claims in the British press. Giano 08:23, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I nominate that fine user, Giano. Trouble is, there's an element - only an element - of truth in these claims. People who falsely claim that obscure Australian TV journalists have rock-star siblings don't help, for example. Neither does all the fannish cruft. That said, the writer of this letter sounds like someone with an axe to grind, and lots of people will surely see him this way. Metamagician3000 08:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
There are several points here. First, that correspondent does indeed seem to have an axe to grind. Secondly, as ongoing events continue to show, there is indeed more than a kernel of truth to what he claims. Thirdly, there are positives and negatives in the British press (excepting the gutter press, which is unlikely to take an interest in this particular area anyway) just as there are everywhere. If you don't like the letter or the article, then send your own counter-argument to The Times. It might get published, it might not, but I think cranking up the Misplaced Pages propaganda machine is unlikely to help and may in fact be ultimately counter-productive. Badgerpatrol 09:30, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
The (London) time is well known for printing seemingly controversial letters on various topics, However, it is also known for allowing people to respond to letters it prints. These need not be from offical bodies. Personally, I think the letter writer is wrong on some points. The other argument being if he thinks edits are being removed by cabals why doesn't he raise this with the community here? Presumably he tried to.
Why didn't he try? Because people who do that get banned repeatedly by admins working for cabals for the must spurious of reasons. It happens so frequently that its not even funny. So what happens? Someone writes a letter to a newspaper and your immediate response is to ban the person (or who you think the person is) for a spurious reason without proof (sockpuppetry). But the real reason you do it is because behind the facade of commitment to open development and freedom of speech, Misplaced Pages is an authoritarian, paranoid beast which lashes out wildly to any criticism no matter how well founded. The only reason the user was banned was that he spoke a truth that you don't want to hear. Now ban this IP address - you know you want to --194.151.240.201 16:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
er, actually, if the writer *is* the former WP editor as mentioned below, he was blocked way back last year sometime; the blocks had nothing to do with the letter being published. Sorry to burst that bit of your bubble. TINC. Tony Fox (arf!) 18:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
er, actually, then why was he banned for sockpuppetry when the account used his own name? Shome mishtake shurely? The great thing about the "sockpuppetry" gambit is that its impossible to disprove - editors have been banned for being from the same ISP (like AOL) as someone else. You haven't answered the substance of the complaint - that editors are regularly banned from WP by admins which are part of POV cabals. That, more than anything else is the greatest scandal of Misplaced Pages and its a matter of time before that bomb goes off in the media.--194.151.240.201 08:17, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Frankly and actually, all of us know this to be the truth, Mr. Steadman, and unfortunately, vandalism and "power politics" can be a reality here because there are no restrictions on "editing." Quite often, the "kids" here, do not have the experience to make adult decisions. The above is clearly a fact of life; certainly nothing new. Gangs, or packs, or cabals of editors, many times people less than the age of majority; much like what happens on MySpace, can control this project--- by "consensus."

It is the very nature of the consensus thinking, without well thought out laws or leadership, that is at the heart of this matter. 63.93.197.67 13:39, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages, has endless triva that is accepted, however there IS a lot of well sourced infromation in Misplaced Pages that would not be in other encyclopaedias with 'closed' edit models. A case in point being biographical details on obscure opposition leaders in questionable regimes. In addition, Misplaced Pages is not censored, hence in respect of articles on religion what might appear to be biased, when is in fact valid comment, just not palatable comment.;-)

ShakespeareFan00 13:43, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Thanks Metamagician, but no I don't talk to the press in any way shape or form, and the unseemly spectacle of various editors airing their differences publicly in the Times would be enough to put people off their breakfast and wikipedia for good. A Minister of Education endorsing Misplaced Pages is to be encouraged here, not allowed to be undermined by the likes of Larry Sanger and other disgruntled editors so Misplaced Pages needs to respond officially to all such public comments as this. Millions of people find our work here helpful and useful - we should be proud of that and not allow it to be demeaned. We the editors put in the work - it is up to "senior management" to defend us and our efforts. Giano 13:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I doubt if The Times is going to offer itself up for editors to have a pop at each other over trivialities. However, it may print a reasoned response outlining in s substantive form a counterargument. Generally, the use of Misplaced Pages should be encouraged, obviously- it's a fun way to learn new things which one can then check and independently verify. It's my experience that schoolchildren (and indeed often even university undergraduates) may lack the skills needed to differentiate between different sources and weigh up their usefulness. If the education secretary is suggesting that Misplaced Pages is a usable source for school essays and the like, then he is frankly wrong. It's possible that he doesn't actually understand what Misplaced Pages is and how it works. In any case, it's silly to get involved in Wiki-propaganda or tit-for-tat press releases and so forth, that's not the Wiki way. The success of Misplaced Pages (for what it is) is manifestly obvious to all. Badgerpatrol 14:28, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, a random English language Misplaced Pages article is more reliable than a random mass media article. WAS 4.250 16:57, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. And double hmm. Tony Fox (arf!) 17:11, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Hmmm indeed! If we were certain it was him, then I would write a fully referenced section in his biography reporting his hobby of writing letters rubbishing wikipedia to national newspapers (see the talk page ) - but there could be two people of that name both domiciled in Matlock - so we have to give benefeit of doubt. If on the other hand Misplaced Pages felt that the co-incidence was too great to be in doubt, then the foundation could inform the Times their correspondent was in fact permanently banned from editing the project. Hence even The Times is not exempt from publishing dodgy information. Giano 17:20, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

<unindent> Speaking about The Times publishing dodgy information, the story that inspired the letter starts "The founder of the Misplaced Pages online encyclopaedia criticised the Education Secretary yesterday for suggesting that the website could be a good educational tool for children." Who dat? More importantly, the feedback on that page is generally pretty good, and the kudos from the UK Education Secretary sound interesting........dave souza, talk 23:16, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I liked the comment from the last guy on the "Have your say" to the original April 11 article.
  • Misplaced Pages is actually a better educational tool because pupils know that it can be edited by anyone. It forces pupils to check sources, and to determine which details are worth tracking down and which can be accepted without real risk. There's nothing like a crtiical attitude to one's textbook. --Malcolm McLean, Bradford, UK
Yes, and my response would be: you can find all kinds of interesting things down at the city dump. But its still a city dump and children shouldn't be playing there, no matter how well informed they are about the dangers of dumps. --194.151.240.201 16:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Is Malcom McLean of Bradford, UK one of us? --Rednblu 02:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't know whether I am in the wrong, but even if I am, I am happy to accept whatever gets thrown at me, including blocks, bans, or an indef. I don't care. I have just emailed The Times with a direct reply to Mr. Steadman's criticisms of Misplaced Pages, from the point of view of myself as an editor. I will be making the text of this email available on my Talk page, which gives you all the opportunity to view what I wrote and to comment upon it. Administrators, you are welcome too. Please don;t hold back, say what you think, but think what you say! Thor Malmjursson 04:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Why are you holding a gun; threatening to shoot people?

Certainly not a timely, or seemly idea of what a spokesperson for Misplaced Pages should look like, in my opinion.

Firstly, please sign your posts, it helps us know who posted what, and when. Secondly, the picture used on my Userpage is merely humour, nothing more. It was originally posted for April Fool's day, and carried the caption "This user is prepared for April Fools Day". However, I kept the image afterwards, and used it for my work on Recent Change Patrol, to signify the fact that I was ready for anything. For what its worth, I neither own, nor carry a gun, and if you look to the box on the right of my userpage, you will see exactly what I look like. I agree, maybe not the best picture, but only intended to be there out of humour and nothing more. In light of recent events however, I will remove the caption since I believe that it could be construed in bad taste. Thor Malmjursson 20:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

<for information> In this speech to the NASUWT teachers' union, the UK Education Secretary Alan Johnson made a passing reference to us, saying "The internet has been an incredible force for good in education. Misplaced Pages enables anybody to access information which was once the preserve of those who could afford the subscription to Enyclopedia Britannica and were prepared to navigate its maze of indexes and content pages." before describing the downside as cyber-bullying etc. This made the Grauniad which emphasised complaints about Misplaced Pages from the union secretary who "said the union itself had been the victim of scurrilous claims on Misplaced Pages". The Times featured Larry Sanger who seems to be trying to launch something, and Nick Gibb the Conservative Party (UK) schools spokesman who said: “A huge amount of the current curriculum, particularly in history, is devoted to teaching children to be discerning when it comes to information on the internet. It appears the Secretary of State is not quite as modern as he needs to be in this information age.”, indicating that the Tories are unaware of Misplaced Pages's ethos and practice. I was thinking this should go in Misplaced Pages in the news etc, but have run out of time, so if anyone more experienced with reporting such items can contribute a piece I'll be most grateful. .. dave souza, talk 19:14, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Smile

Djmckee1 has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

You are the best Wikipedian in the world and one of my greatest heros.Djmckee1 14:08, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello - Question

Hello Jimbo. I'm having a bit of a problem with one of wiki's users. His user name is Kronecker. The problem is that i have been adopted on Wiki and am doing lessons with my adopter. Ive edited some articles and write dome also. I have made some mistakes as you do (we all start somewhere, like you did when you co-foundered wiki) and he is picking up every mistake i do and posting it on my wiki page. I would not mind that bud he is doing it in a unnice way and calling me an idiot. This is what he said (hes done it twice):

Are you an idiot? That plot synopsis wasn't encyclopædic at all. You shouldn't capitalize titles either - use italics. --Kronecker 07:12, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


so i said privatly: I would appreciate it if you do not call me an idiot on my user page. I have been adopted on wikipedia and am learning how to write articles properly, so i don't need you to tell me im an idiot because: Alec1990 15:04, 16 April 2007 (UTC) Quote > Are you an idiot? That plot synopsis wasn't encyclopædic at all. You shouldn't capitalize titles either - use italics. --Kronecker 07:12, 15 April 2007 (UTC) <Quote

This is immature of you and i would appreciate it if you would not do it.

Thanks Alec

Then he said: Why have you labbelled all your contributions minor edits. You are an idiot. --Kronecker 00:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


Ive asked him privately to stop and via his talk page and he has done it again. Ive had a look at the user dispute page and i just don't get it. its complicated for a newbie.

He has done this in the past and has been blocked before.

I would really appreciate if you could help. Thanks Alec

I've issued an NPA reminder to the editor in question, and will leave a note on User:Alec1990's page as well. Tony Fox (arf!) 15:33, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


Hive

Daniel Brandt's notorious Hive Mind page which gave info on various editors and admins who work here including yourself and myself has been taken down. I thought you would be interested to know, SqueakBox 17:31, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I wonder if that was my doing. I have recently sent wikipedia-watch emails demanding that I'm removed from the page on the grounds that my username is no longer Dbiv and I am no longer an administrator, contrary to what my entry used to say. I would like to claim all due credit, naturally. Fys. &#147;Ta fys aym&#148;. 18:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I strongly suspect not as if that were the case he could easily have removed you. There is an internet page where DB explains his motives but I wont be able to link to it as editors have been blocked for linking to said site. Nice to see you still here, David, SqueakBox 20:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
It's another veiled legal threat by Brandt () . Careful, he's trying to build a good argument, and he's probably setting us up for his proverbial "home run". Nothing pleases Brandt more than taking down a huge sum of information to preserve his own "privacy". // Sean William (PTO) 20:47, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Massive pedophile crackdown

About a month ago, there appeared to be a big crackdown on self-identified pedophilies. From what I can gather, the ones that I knew that had put up messages saying they were a pedophile (User:Zanthalon, User:Silent War, User:Clayboy) seemed to be indefinitely blocked and had their pages deleted and protected. I've found something here: Can you explain and is there any more information on this? Christopher Connor 21:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

The banning of three self-professed pedophiles hardly seems like a "massive crackdown". If there are issues with individual bans please email individual ArbCom members directly. -Will Beback · † · 23:06, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Congratulation to the Misplaced Pages for actioning to protect wide society from the dangerous individualsWen Hsing 14:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Congratulation to Wen Hsing for making an extremely POV edit, not to mention one that is highly erroneous. —  $PЯINGrαgђ  14:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I am unaware of any general crackdown. We always block people who are trolling and being disruptive. I see nothing wrong with any of the blocks.--Jimbo Wales 18:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Jimbo, my detailed response is here, the short version being: Ask the person to remove the offending material, and only refusal to do so being cause for banning. AFAIK these are good editors and I wouldn't have any credibility if I didn't stand up for them, so I am. Please reconsider. Herostratus 19:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
The blocked Wikipedians were not trolls, they were simply paedophiles who made well-intentioned edits to Misplaced Pages but admitted their sexual orientation on their userpage. Since there are millions of paedophiles in society, there are clearly going to be a lot of paedophiles on Misplaced Pages. I'm guessing that Misplaced Pages received complaints from random vigilantes, however this reaction is totally unnecessary - a few silly hate groups and vigilantes are hardly going to damage a site such as Misplaced Pages. BLueRibbon 01:21, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Non-self-identifying paedophiles are clearly free to edit wikipedia, SqueakBox 01:35, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
And why shouldn't we identify as paedophiles, other than to protect the delicate ears of vigilante groups? Admitting my attraction to children doesn't harm anyone, it just shows that Misplaced Pages is diverse, something which any online society should hope to be. BLueRibbon 02:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Vigilante groups? Are you kidding? IMO it does harm people, adult and children, so I agree with Jimbo. The blocking does no harm at all to the project, SqueakBox 02:09, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh please, would you care to explain how identifying as a paedophile harms adults or children, or are you just going to sit there making yourself feel superior with your arrogant remarks? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BLueRibbon (talk • contribs) 02:15, 18 April 2007 (UTC).
I am not feeling superior at all, look at my user page and you'll see I identify with what is an illegal activity in many parts of the worl in bold as the opening statement of my user page so I can relate to alienation and all that but do think that it harms the project and does indeed harm adults and children. How would you presume to know what may harms others? Paedophilia does harm countless people is the reality, SqueakBox 02:21, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
In case you haven't realized yet, when I say "paedophilia" I mean a sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children. I do not mean any kind of activity. As I have already suggested, please read the pedophilia article. BLueRibbon 02:32, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Looking through their edit histories (Silent War, Clayboy, Zanthalon), I'm can't seem to find evidence that the blocked users were actually being disruptive. Zanthalon and Silent War were infrequent editors – their last edits were on 24 December 2006 and 30 September 2006, respectively – and so the blocks (all on 7 March 2007) were implemented months after they were last active. Admitting to paedophilia is obviously a red flag, but from their edits, it doesn't appear that their intention here was to troll, so does admitting to be a paedophile constitute a blockable offence? Wales: you yourself blocked Clayboy so could you explain this in more detail? Christopher Connor 22:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
That is only because their user page entries have been deleted, SqueakBox 01:32, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe this should be a warning to pedophiles: Conceal your innermost thoughts at all costs, even if it causes you to go insane, because the world doesn't care and usually bans you from any project you join because you might someday happen to see the 1 in 7 billion chance child by accident (notice five chances have to be met, which would almost never happen). Big congratulations. —  $PЯINGrαgђ  01:28, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually that sounds good to me. Better to go insane than abuse the innocent, no? SqueakBox 01:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Maybe you should read the pedophilia article before you make such silly comments. I have never had sex with a child, yet you appear to be happy to attack me. There's only one person abusing the innocent here and that's you. BLueRibbon 01:56, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I read you home page, SqueakBox 02:35, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Hardly. Which innocents is that? I am not an admin so am just commenting, pretty much from a sense of shock, SqueakBox 02:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I am a paedophile because I am attracted to pre-pubescent children, however I do not have sex with children because I do not agree with adult-child sex. You referred to paedophiles as "abusing the innocent." Since I am innocent of what you are accusing paedophiles of doing, don't you think that you are offending an innocent person (me)? BLueRibbon 02:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
No I dont think I am offending innocent people but I think paedophiles do do so just as people who want to murder other people can be offensive, and if they express their murderous desire here they get blocked too, SqueakBox 02:40, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I have visited the penitentiary in Colorado and interacted with pedophiles. We worked together on certain matters. All prisoners have the right to safety and medical care. We had one here in Crestone, a very clever one, he had a little dog he used as a lure. He gave puppet shows. I liked him, a very pleasant man. He used the wireless internet connection at the cafe to get online. I chatted with him a bit and recommended Misplaced Pages. But then later found out what he was up to. I suppose he couldn't control himself. It isn't a lack of humanity or sympathy which is involved. It is the reputation of the site. We are not a platform for advocacy. Or a place of assignation. Fred Bauder 02:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Look, just because we're paedophiles doesn't mean we're criminals or child abusers. Do not, under any circumstances, link me to the people jailed for child molestation. The assumption that all paedophiles are child abusers and criminals is highly offensive and is the reason why I defend my cause so doggedly. BLueRibbon 02:32, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Its a fair assumption,IMO. At 18 you may well be too young for a sexual relationship anyway, SqueakBox 02:35, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
What is a fair assumption? The assumption that we're child abusers? Do you know how many paedophiles there are, how many abuse cases there are, and how many of those cases are committed by adult-attracted people? If you look at the numbers, they don't even come close to adding up to your theory. BLueRibbon 02:40, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Conversely, the assumption that all child molesters are pedophiles is a dangerous one: 90% of all child molesters have no sexual attraction to children, so laws targeting pedophilia have little effect on child molestation. --Carnildo 05:26, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
The question I have though, if you want privacy, the right to lead a quiet law-abiding life, why are you expressing your sexual desires on one of the most visited websites in the world? Fred Bauder 02:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't particularly want a quiet life. Regarding privacy, I take measures to protect myself on the internet. Expressing my desires here does not violate the law. I don't like to be silenced because of my sexual attraction and, when safe to do so, I make it clear that I'm attracted to children because I'm tired of so many people feeling ashamed of who they are. BLueRibbon 11:18, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Well I suppose the same argument was made in the past to homosexuals. However, SqueakBox, it is correct that users should not be allowed to self-identify as pedophiles on their talk pages. There are a few reasons for this, but one that is sufficient is, lets's face it: because identifying oneself as a pedophile is such a red flag, it's a godsend for trolls. Identifying oneself as a pedophile is a great way to create disruptive drama, a troll's purpose. Actual pedophiles should understand this and recognize that for this reason it may be necessary to prohibit all self-identification as a pedophile to prevent the trolling use of such. (That does not mean that non-trolling self-identified pedphiles should be banned, just that their self-identification be removed.) Herostratus 03:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


A mixed race marriage like mine has also been criminalised in the past but, as with homosexuality, we are talking of consensting adults who have the chance of a long term sustained marriage. IMO the acceptance of mixed race and homosexual marriages is a sign of progress whereas our attitude as societies to paedophiles has harden, and IMO for obvious reasons, SqueakBox 04:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
As I have already stated several times, paedophilia is not harmful because it is a thought/feeling. If one refrains from acting on that, it is highly unreasonable to attack them or tar them with same brush as people who do act. Carnildo also made a good point. BLueRibbon 11:18, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
We're not here to debate the goods and ills of society. We're here to build an encyclopedia, an educational resource for people of all ages. Is the project, and its reputation in the world, helped or hurt by allowing editors to proclaim a sexual preference for minors? I cannot see any reason why the project would be helped, and many reasons why it would be hurt. That would be true even if the editors in question only edited their user pages. In fact, they edited much more. While it wasn't the immediate cause of their ban, these editors along with others have consistently sought to remove negative information about pedophilia, to remove connections between pedophilia and child molestation, and to insert favorable material. They've been, to use the usual phrase, POV pushers. That user:Rookiee, another self-professed pedophile, wrote our first article on Justin Berry in a way that even Clayboy admitted was "pretty badly POV" is an indication of the trouble we've had. While we do want our articles on pedophilia and related issues to be as neutral as any other topic, the pro-pedophile editors have done more to skew the neutrality than to help it. Let's remember that Misplaced Pages doesn't exist to right the world's wrongs - our purpose is to write the world's encyclopedia. -Will Beback · † · 05:15, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I should add that there are other wikis that welcome these users: This isn't the only game in town. -Will Beback · † · 05:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Please see Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages is not therapy. Many of the concerns advanced here are more properly addressed in a therapeutic setting. Cries for help are simply inappropriate in a public forum. Fred Bauder 11:45, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

  • A rare occasion when I agree with Fred - it seems to me that BlueRibbon is a Wikipedian in order to discuss his sexuality rather than write an encyclopedia - I'm sure you must have some other interests and hobbies BlueRibbon - why not do us all a favour and go and write about them instead, assuming they are legal that is. Giano 12:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I discuss my sexuality pretty much everywhere where I feel it is safe to do so, however the reason I edit Misplaced Pages is to maintain a NPOV on the paedophilia-related articles, which are obviously subject to significant bias due to the current state of public opinion. For the record, I do write about many of my hobbies at Misplaced Pages, however I use a different username. BLueRibbon 15:59, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
We should reflect the current state of public opinion worldwide in our encyclopedia, SqueakBox 16:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Absolutely not. An encyclopedia should not represent any point of view, it should represent fact. Since public opinion operates in a manner contrary to fact in this particular example, reflecting public opinion is certainly not in the best interests of this project. BLueRibbon 16:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually fact is a dubious concept outside the hard sciences. We should represent all notable points of view, SqueakBox 16:50, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
That is simply untrue. You will find millions of facts if you read Misplaced Pages, an encyclopedia which is not designed to represent points of view. BLueRibbon 17:24, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe we should get Jimbo Wales' opinion on this instead of arguing. —  $PЯINGrαgђ  14:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I've noticed that Jimbo doesn't usually discuss controversial issues such as this, but I agree that it would be useful to hear his opinion. BLueRibbon 15:59, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Jimbo has already opined here, see above, SqueakBox 16:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
This you mean? —  $PЯINGrαgђ  23:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Exactly, SqueakBox 23:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

As Fred said, this project is not some kind of experimental platform for democratic argument. It's an encyclopedia, and a project with a PR aspect to it. If you want the privilege of editing here, it's fair enough that you do nothing that could bring the project into disrepute - which includes self-identifying as a pedophile on your userpage or elsewhere. If you (some hypothetical pedophile) want to make pedophilia more socially respectable, take the issue to other forums. If the government tries to censor you, I might even support your right to say whatever it is you want - I'm big on freedom of speech. But Misplaced Pages is not the government; it's a private operation that can set its own terms on which it cooperates with people. It's not here to assist your cause, however just or unjust, and it has its own problems without you adding to them. Why don't people "get" this simple idea? Metamagician3000 10:54, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree. All I ask is that we keep a NPOV on pedophiles and pedophilia—that's what Misplaced Pages is about. —  $PЯINGrαgђ  14:09, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

New rules and policies

Some admins have come up with new policies about edit-waring, and been enforcing arbitrary 1RR or even 0RR on many articles, and blocking some users at one revert. The issue seems controversial though and has instigated a debate among the admins. Could you please elaborate on the legality or illegality of such methods and subjective limits which are inconsistent, and may allow for administrative abuse: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#The_Golden_.283RR.29_Rule_and_why_it_must_stay Regards. ArmenianJoe 01:10, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding Biocrawler

I know that there are a lot of sites that re-use Misplaced Pages content. Under the GFDL, this is permitted, with proper attribution. But one particular scraper site raises concerns.

Biocrawler.com apparently uses an automated script to change all instances of the word "Misplaced Pages" to "Biocrawler." Sometimes the results are merely humorous, such as this discussion of the "Biocrawler is Communism" vandal or the numerous reference to "Biocrawlerns". However, there are many cases where the Talk page comments of named users are altered by this substitution. For example, here there are a lot of comments by individuals (some using their real names) that were meant to say Misplaced Pages, but now say Biocrawler instead. Is this sort of misattribution of talk comments permitted by the GFDL? I find it problematic because words are being put in peoples' mouths that they never said. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 02:34, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Also see the external links here. Larry Sanger would no doubt be surprised to learn that he's written an article entitled "Why Biocrawler Must Jettison Its Anti-Elitism." Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 02:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
That is very funny. El hombre de haha 03:37, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:IAR

Is WP:IAR actual for Wikipedias in other languages? - VasilievVV 06:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

IAR is interwikied to about twenty other Wikipedias. I think it's basically a common sense policy for any WMF project, but I can't speak for Jimbo on that. YechielMan 15:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion for new WHOIS ip locator

This thing is incredibly precise. Any other locator tells me I'm in Illinois, but this one not only knows I'm in British Columbia, Canada, but can even tell me what city I'm in. HalfShadow 18:10, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps, but if I am using a proxy, like righ now or like this edit here at the sandbox, it will show that I am in Winnipeg when in fact I am in Ottawa. Mind you it is annoyingly slow to try and do this. --24.77.161.121 18:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Here are some more proxies.--CyclePat 19:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
It may be more precise, but it's not necessarily more accurate. I use that IP locator all the time, and it almost always identifies a city a couple of hours away from where I actually am (I'm in the LM also). Anchoress 05:08, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
I have to concur: that site assures me that I'm in Kirklees, which as far as I recall is not a place I have ever visited (actually right now I'm in Amersham). HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 11:44, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Notability of murder victims

There is an interesting discussion about the notability of a murder victim at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Jocelyne Couture-Nowak. Your comments would be welcome. One side argues that the simple fact of a violent death does not confer notability; the other side argues that the extensive media coverage of the killings means that the victim is now the multiple non-trivial published works, and hence notable, regardless of whether she was before. --Eastmain 00:06, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Another example of notability creep. You are starting to see bios of the Virginia Tech victims even now, and photos. However, it's not so bad, since they're dead and thus out of bounds for WP:BLP. The problem is much more acute for victims of spectacular crimes (or disasters or anything else that falls on ordinary folk from the sky), who manage to SURVIVE. SBHarris 00:22, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Not so, we have hundreds of articles on murder victims, many of them of years standing without afd's ever having touched them, eg Amanda Dowler, SqueakBox 00:26, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
What's "not so"? As I said, the problem really doesn't exist for dead victims. It's the live victims who suffer directly from unwanted notoriety. I've never had a problem with dead people being bio'd on wikipedia for any reason. They're out of the game, and bless 'em. SBHarris 00:42, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
What's not say, IMO, is the WP:creep re murder victims. We have to be very careful wuith living people, that is why we have BLP, SqueakBox 00:44, 19 April 2007 (UTC) SqueakBox 00:44, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
There's a creep with murder victims. No room for this many in a paper encyclopedia. These are often people who've been bio'd as memorials. Despite the supposed idea from WP:NOT that WP is not supposed to be used as a memorial repository. Again we run up against the problem of interest. Why DO people write articles without pay? Because they care about the subject, positively or negatively. So now, POV. Inescapable. Are you going to bio somebody you don't care about? SBHarris 01:04, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
No room for a lot of stuff in paper encyclopedias. Which is why we are better than the paper ones (along with search without scrolling through hundreds of pages), SqueakBox 01:07, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
I'll let you have the last word after this comment. But please consider that constraints of some type (such as space and length constraints) are sometimes GOOD things. They make sonnets and concertos. Misplaced Pages can be like playing tennis with the net down. SBHarris 02:54, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

If I had 100 million dollars?

Jimbo, last year I think you asked people what should be bought up with a lot of money you possibly had access to. I suggest buying up U.S Historic Newspapers Archives Inc. 1592 Hart Street, Rahway. NJ 07065 Toll Free: 1-866-850-0423 Fax: 732-381-2699 http://www.hnarchive.com I'm pulling together a List of the writings of William Monahan and his New York Post stuff is possibly hidden away within that company's vaults, so are a lot of other newspapers it seems, like the Wall Street Journal. There's a lot of first drafts of history in those old newspapers. Would be good for Misplaced Pages, no? Best, BillDeanCarter 00:12, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Rogue admin account

Today's Main Page shenanigans bring up a few issues. Is it worth considering once again removing the bit from sysops who announce their departure (or, perhaps, those whose accounts become (totally) dormant for a certain period). As they'd already demonstrated their trustworthiness, it wouldn't be too difficult to create a simple mechanism for them to resume their mops if/when they decided to return, without needing to jump the hurdle of RfA. --Dweller 10:40, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that would have prevented anything. An admin will just use his account every week or so to avoid losing his bit even if not really active. What is more active accounts are more likely to be compromised. Also, no real damage was done, it was responded to quickly. InBC 13:20, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Formal request for clarification

Hello,

Per the conversation at WP:CSN, I would like to request formal clarification regarding the unblock of Daniel_Brandt (talk · contribs). Is this a WP:OFFICE action, or is the final disposition up to community consensus? Thanks! - CHAIRBOY (☎) 14:01, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Daniel Brandt

People are generally not very happy about this unblock. We need to know if you using your veto authority on this matter, or if it is something the community has a say in. The consensus is not allow this person to edit, so unless you are using your special authority(office actions, act of Jimbo etc...) it should not stand. InBC 14:02, 19 April 2007 (UTC)