Talk:Sun - Misplaced Pages

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Unsafe conclusion in Motion and location

Under the subtitle "Motion in the Solar System"

There is an unsupported conclusion with an orphan reference. To wit: " The orbits of the inner planets, including of the Earth, are similarly displaced by the same gravitational forces, so the movement of the Sun has little effect on the relative positions of the Earth and the Sun or on solar irradiance on the Earth as a function of time. "

Checking footnote 140 reveals:

Retraction of: Scientific Reports 10.1038/s41598-019-45584-3, published online 24 June 2019 The Editors have retracted this Article. After publication, concerns were raised regarding the interpretation of how the Earth-Sun distance changes over time and that some of the assumptions on which analyses presented in the Article are based are incorrect.The analyses presented in the section entitled “Effects of SIM on a temperature in the terrestrial hemispheres” are based on the assumption that the orbits of the Earth and the Sun about the Solar System barycenter are uncorrelated, so that the Earth-Sun distance changes by an amount comparable to the Sun-barycenter distance. Post-publication peer review has shown that this assumption is inaccurate because the motions of the Earth and the Sun are primarily due to Jupiter and the other giant planets, which accelerate the Earth and the Sun in nearly the same direction, and thereby generate highly-correlated motions in the Earth and Sun. Current ephemeris calculations show that the Earth-Sun distance varies over a timescale of a few centuries by substantially less than the amount reported in this article. As a result the Editors no longer have confidence in the conclusions presented. S. I. Zharkov agrees with the retraction. V. V. Zharkova, E. Popova, and S. J. Shepherd disagree with the retraction.

Folkner, W. M., Williams, J. G., Boggs, D. H., Park, R.S. & Kuchynka, P. The Planetary and Lunar Ephemerides DE430 and DE431. "The Interplanetary Network Progress Report", Volume 42–196, February 15, 2014.

JPL Horizons on-line solar system data. Horizons System

Reference: Retraction Note: Oscillations of the baseline of solar magnetic field and solar irradiance on a millennial timescale

FAR

I feel like an FAR may be needed. This article contains unsourced text and there is a tag. The lede would also stylistically look better if the second and third paragraphs were about the size of the current fourth paragraph, but that isn't a requirement. 750 h+ 15:03, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

It would be helpful if you could mark what text specifically needs sourcing. From a quick skim, I could only find one paragraph without citations. Sgubaldo (talk) 13:26, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

No, there's likely more than three paragraphs that aren't unsourced. There's numerous sentences too:

Third paragraph in "Etymology" section is fully unsourced
Second paragraph in "General characteristics" has an unsourced sentence
Third paragraph in "General characteristics" has an unsourced sentence
Third paragraph in "Magnetic activity" has an unsourced sentence
Fifth paragraph in "After core hydrogen exhaustion" has unsourced sentences
First paragraph in "Motion" has unsourced sentences
First paragraph in "Early understanding" section is fully unsourced
Fourth paragraph in "Early understanding" section is fully unsourced
Third and fourth paragraph in "Development of scientific understanding" has an unsourced sentence

There's quite a few more I can count. The article would not pass FAC if it were to go through now. 750 h+ 13:00, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Given that the last FAR for this article appears to have been done all the way back in... 2009?! I'd certainly agree on one being needed. It necessarily is not only unsourced text which may be an issue too; piecemeal revisions over ~15 years could potentially impact clarity, and I'm pretty sure FA criteria back in 2009 may have been different than they are now. ArkHyena (talk) 18:27, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

This is more nitpicky, but also a lot of the references are missing various fields (authors, etc). Sgubaldo (talk) 08:19, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Which is a large problem on many FAs that are over 5-7 years old 750 h+ 08:21, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

A notice was also given in 2022. 750 h+ 12:21, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

An FAR of this article is underway as of May 24, 2024. See Misplaced Pages:Featured article review/Sun/archive2. Praemonitus (talk) 14:28, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Solar apex ref is synthesis.

The sentence on Solar apex is referenced by combining two sources of data. IMO the content should be removed until there is a proper reference. Johnjbarton (talk) 20:45, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Addressed. Praemonitus (talk) 21:56, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. No need to be snarky. Johnjbarton (talk) 22:13, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

I see. Praemonitus (talk) 01:32, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Deleted paragraph on work by E. Biemont

I deleted an out of place paragraph about solar composition in the solar missions section The parargraph had a few primary references from the 1970s. A modern review like

Asplund, M., Amarsi, A. M., & Grevesse, N. (2021). The chemical make-up of the Sun: A 2020 vision. Astronomy & Astrophysics, 653, A141

barely mentions the work. It also did not make much sense. Johnjbarton (talk) 22:52, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

It seems like the type of content that could belong on Abundance of the chemical elements#Sun. Praemonitus (talk) 02:09, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

The amount hydrogen fused in a second

Is 600 million kilograms and not 600 billion. The page is of coursf protected, thus I am unable to correct it. Dengaleugle (talk) 06:14, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Done, thanks. Rasnaboy (talk) 09:23, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

@Dengaleugle It's 600 million tonnes of kg, which is 600 billion kg. @Rasnaboy, I've reverted your change. Sgubaldo (talk) 09:55, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oh. I missed that. @Sgubaldo, Thank you for spotting it. Rasnaboy (talk) 10:58, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Rotation section

In the second paragraph, "vestage" should be "vestige". 24.19.149.125 (talk) 03:50, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Done. Sgubaldo (talk) 10:04, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Poetic Access

There is a poem by Baudelaire ´´ The Sun ´´, which is of high quality. Perhaps one of the english versions could improve this article! ( Ulftomme ) 2A00:1830:A001:F007:0:0:0:6 (talk) 14:50, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

The original text and various English translations can be found here: https://fleursdumal.org/poem/101 . A mention (that the Sun hasn't only inspired aspects of religions but poetry as well), could be added to the article. Dhrm77 (talk) 18:14, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Will the sun go away

Any experts know if the sun will go away. Due to it's age or pollution. 50.106.91.66 (talk) 00:16, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

That content already exists, Sun#Life_phases.

Done Johnjbarton (talk) 00:37, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the info. I am only 11 and the only one who likes astrology in my family I use the Internet for answers. Please look at my "Questions from a kid" on Misplaced Pages talk 50.106.91.66 (talk) 14:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

What is the actual solar (effective) temperature?

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The article gives several conflicting values:

5772 K in the infobox
5777 K in the second paragraph of the Sun#Photosphere section
5778 K in the Sun#Sunlight_and_neutrinos section
5772 K (again) in the Sun#Main_sequence section.

Now, of course, all these values are clearly well within any reasonable error margin of each other, but it's sloppy editing to give three different values. I suggest the above (and other numbers, ) be normalised to the nominal values from IAU 2015 Resolution B3 (i.e. Table 1 in Andrej Prša et al 2016 AJ 152 41, DOI: 10.3847/0004-6256/152/2/41; the pre-print of which is already cited as Ref no. 12). 69.165.195.198 (talk) 22:07, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Excellent thanks. In one case I edit the value away in the process of cleaning up some refs. Johnjbarton (talk) 01:36, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Hmm... Now that I have read the reference again I am not so sure. The "nominal values" in that publication serve a specific purpose:

"These nominal values should be understood as conversion factors only—chosen to be close to the current commonly accepted estimates (see Table 1)—not as the true solar properties."

So for example, (as I understand this sentence), the temperature is really a value derived from a formula using measured luminosity and radius, not a "true" experimentally measured temperature. Johnjbarton (talk) 01:57, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

As you doubtlessly know, we can't just stick a thermometer into the solar photosphere, and there aren't too many different ways to measure things when the object in question is a sphere of very hot hydrogen at an astronomical distance... As far as I know, applying Stefan-Boltzmann (as described in the IAU resolution paper and here) is the usual method to get the solar effective temperature. The nominal value (being close to the "commonly accepted estimates") is probably as close to a "true" value as we can get, unless someone decides to re-do the necessary experimental measures with currently available instruments. 69.165.195.198 (talk) 11:51, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Indeed. But the description in the paper of these "nominal values" is very puzzling. What does "commonly accepted values" even mean? "conversion factors only"? "true solar properties"? Bizarre choice of words for what should have been "based on our review, these are the most accurate values of these properties at this time."

But I agree this seems to be the best we can do. Johnjbarton (talk) 16:49, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Too much on one ref outdated ref?

This one ref from 1977 with 22 citations is used 7 times in the article.

Abhyankar, K. D. (1977). "A Survey of the Solar Atmospheric Models". Bulletin of the Astronomical Society of India. 5: 40–44. Bibcode:1977BASI....5...40A. Archived from the original on 12 May 2020. Retrieved 12 July 2009.

It seems to me that something like

Mullan, D. J. (2009). Physics of the Sun: A First Course. United States: CRC Press.

would be much better as a source. Johnjbarton (talk) 01:30, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Equatorial Radius

Isn't it kind of misleading to put meters as the equatorial radius unit because you would expect the unit to be kilometers instead. PeanutbutterCat6Meow (talk) 14:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Also I noticed that the surface area is in square kilometers instead of square meters which you would expect if radius is in meters. PeanutbutterCat6Meow (talk) 15:26, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't know which unit one should "expect". With the metric system, in any case, conversion is trivial (10^8 m = 10^5 km; 10^12 km^2 = 10^18 m^2). For what it is worth, the units are the same as in the given sources, which have (resp.) the radius in meters and the surface area in kilometers. 69.165.195.198 (talk) 22:47, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

"The Sun" or "Sun"?

Why do we call "The Sun" and not just simply called "Sun", like other stars names (Spica, Arcturus, Vega, etc) that don't have "The" word accompanying them? 2001:1388:1B8E:BBB1:9CBC:C8B4:1DCC:4732 (talk) 18:17, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

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