Talk:Maize - Misplaced Pages

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Maize has been listed as one of the Agriculture, food and drink good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: March 13, 2024. (Reviewed version).

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

No consensus, 20 June 2007, from Maize to Corn, see discussion.
No consensus, 21 February 2011, from Maize to Corn, see discussion.
No consensus, 11 August 2013, from Maize to Corn, see discussion.
Not moved, 22 June 2015, from Maize to Corn, see discussion.
No consensus, 11 September 2022, from Maize to Corn, see discussion.
No consensus, 9 February 2023, from Maize to Corn, see discussion.

Requested move 25 September 2024

It has been proposed in this section that Maize be renamed and moved to Zea mays.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

Maize → Zea mays – Why not the scientific name? As is the case for many other notable plants—the Tea plant, Arabica coffee, the Giant Sequoia, the Gingko, the Common juniper, etc., etc.—just use the binomial/scientific name. If even a species as ubiquitous as the Tea plant uses Camellia sinensis for its article title, there's no doubt it would hold up here. The "grass" family itself uses its taxonomic name, Poaceae. Also, the change would ideally put an end to the longtime haggling over this article, ought to be uncontroversial among users and readers, and I think would actually cause less confusion. I hereby put it to a vote. Indefatigable2 05:41, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Lets not make a confusing situation even more confusing. We use common names for countless species, and until there is project-wide consensus to use scientific names for all species, I think the status quo is best. "Coffea arabica" introduces no confusion. "Ginkgo biloba" is in everyday use. "Cacao" is not confusing because all literate people know that several different food products are made from cacao. Redwood species are commonly called "Sequoias". Nobody will get confused by "Juniperus". As a visit to a tea shop or a website selling teas would show, many species other than Camellia sinensis are actively marketed as teas. As for "Poaceae", there are about 12,000 species, many of which are not commonly described as "grass", so the scientific name is appropriate for such a broad group. Cullen328 (talk) 06:07, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
What about Black Cherry Prunus serotina? European ash Fraxinus excelsior? There's plenty of taxonomic names on Misplaced Pages not easily connected, at first glance, to the plant they refer to. Indefatigable2 06:23, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
Prunus serotina has many common names, not just two, as in the case of corn/maize which are clearly differentiated between (broadly) American English and British English. Cullen328 (talk) 06:33, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
Ok, but there's still more than one common name in both cases. What inherent difference does it make if there's "many" different names, or just two? Indefatigable2 06:36, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
As everyday experience and common sense should inform you, there is a dramatic difference between "many" and "two". Cullen328 (talk)
That 100% depends on context, and how often the "many" or "two" are actually invoked in common discussion.Indefatigable2 07:07, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
Oppose move. This is possibly even worse than the Corn suggestion. No one calls this "Zea mays". O.N.R. 06:07, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
Does anyone call the Sugar Maple Acer saccharum, or the European Yew Taxus baccata? Indefatigable2 06:11, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
The problem with the "sugar maple" comparison is that the name is not dominant, except in the context of Maple syrup. I have worked in the cabinet, countertop and millwork industry for 40 years, and in that context, the tree and its lumber is far more commonly known as "rock maple" or "hard maple " or "birds-eye maple" or "curly maple". Cullen328 (talk) 06:21, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
Ok. I think "Sugar Maple" is actually one of the most common types of trees laypeople know of. I'd guess it is, probably, one of the top five most widely known tree species names. Perhaps it's different where you are. Also, I think far more people in general are familiar with the tree though the context of maple syrup than through woodworking, so I'm not sure what the more niche names prove. If these more obscure names are enough of a reason to use the scientific name for "Sugar Maple" it's definitely enough to use the scientific name here. Indefatigable2 06:32, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

This lay person from Australia has never heard of sugar maple. Surely it's rather inaccurate too.HiLo48 (talk) 07:06, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

I mean you're saying the scientific name is justified for "Sugar Maple" because there is more than one everyday name. But isn't that the exact issue we're discussing for this page? Indefatigable2 06:34, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
Here, there are only two common names. Corn is almost universally used in everyday speech in the United States and Canada. Maize is almost universally used in other English speaking countries. Zea mays is used by nobody except scientists. Scientific names are entirely appropriate for lesser known species and for species with many common names. This is a widely known species widely discussed in everyday language, and no consensus has emerged for anything other than "maize", although as an American, I would much prefer "corn". But I respect consensus and oppose rocking the boat. I can happily live with maize. Cullen328 (talk) 06:46, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Farmers in Australia might all the commercial crop maize. I don't actually know. But the rest of us here call the stuff corn. Nobody calls it zea maize. 06:59, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't know how a formal renaming request is "rocking the boat," but that's neither here nor there. And the fact that "nobody except scientists" uses a scientific name hasn't prevented their use on a huge list of Misplaced Pages articles, so I don't see the strength of that point either. Lastly, you say no consensus has emerged against "Maize," but this is also not the whole picture, as there are many people opposed to this title also. I am one of them—but I'm opposed to corn also. The reasons given thus far to use scientific names are very clearly applicable to this article, also. Indefatigable2 06:54, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
Comment Alright, look people, the Common Marigold is called Calendula officinalis so let's at least dispense with the notion that common plant articles don't use scientific names. You can go through Misplaced Pages and find a bunch.Indefatigable2 07:03, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

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