Talk:2025 New Orleans truck attack

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Birthplace

Born and raised in TX? Except, no citation, and we're not buying it. Someone fix. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1C2:4F00:BE0:3E4D:F311:C18:CBF7 (talk) 11:43, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

The CHRON is reporting born and raised in Texas and that is what's cited there. -- D'n'B-📞 -- 11:48, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

"Terrorist attack" - hesitancy

The NOPD had a press conference this morning. The mayor of New Orleans claimed this was a "terrorist" attack. However the person from the FBI who is leading the investigation said that it is not a terrorist attack. So for now, I suggest we possibly refrain from using the term. ItzSwirlz (talk) 12:50, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

The description is in my opinion quite clear that it was a terrorist attack. It was clearly done to maximize casualties, so the term should apply here. 2A02:8388:1643:D680:7C20:EEFA:982E:22B7 (talk) 14:06, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

It doesn't matter one whit what your opinion is on whether it is terrorism or not. The only thing that matters is what WP:RS reliable sources say. Marcus Markup (talk) 14:22, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

It's been massively covered as a TERRORIST attack at this point. "In a later update, the FBI confirmed the driver was dead and that the incident was being investigated as an "act of terrorism"."<-- BBC News

"The FBI said in a news release that they are investigating it "as an act of terrorism." <-- CBS News ... it would appear Duncan got scorched for making such a misguided comment, and the White House has since directed a correction be made officially.2603:6080:2100:47CB:1DD7:82E7:CE76:D0A8 (talk) 14:26, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

The Attorney General has described it as "terrorism". Fluoborate (talk) 17:40, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Even without reliable sources, it is evident this is a terrorist attack. SimpleSubCubicGraph (talk) 18:47, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Title

I suggest to change the title in to "2025 New Orleans attack". This attack was also carried out by shooting, not just with a truck. Gianluigi02 (talk) 13:21, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Agree heylenny (/_edits) 14:57, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Start an RM. the wildfire update guy that also writes about other weather (talk) 16:49, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

How are similar events titled? I specifically feel like "New Years" might warrant a place in the title, and I possibly agree with not including "truck". Fluoborate (talk) 17:36, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

I do not edit crime. However, I support “2025 New Year New Orleans Truck Attack”. A similar RM in the world of weather ended up not adding a relatively insignificant portion to the title, and I feel like the same would apply here. the wildfire update guy that also writes about other weather (talk) 17:54, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

The move I am referring to is Talk:Tornado outbreak of December 10–11, 2021/Archive 1#Requested move 13 December 2021. the wildfire update guy that also writes about other weather (talk) 17:55, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

See Category:2020s vehicular rampage. Bonne année. 2.28.124.91 (talk) 17:57, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Consider replacing New Orleans in the title with French Quarter or Bourban Street. New Orleans is too general for many readers. ErrorCorrection1 (talk) 19:12, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Identifying information on the suspect? Age?

The name "Shamsud-Din Bahar Jabbar", or the same name without the hyphen, is now in multiple reputable sources. However, is he the "42-year-old Houston man" who was the owner of the truck? Or was the truck stolen? The owner of the truck may not be the named deceased suspect, based on the New York Times currently. Fluoborate (talk) 17:33, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

According to the Events section, the "42-year-old Houston man" owned the truck, but he was renting it via Turo to the suspect. 🪐 Xarinu 🪐 (Talk 2 Me :] ) 18:59, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

I don't see where any of the sources mention the age of the owner of the truck. Consider it an unlikely coincidence and possible error AND the truck owners age is really irrelevant that could be removed. 104.49.87.62 (talk) 20:06, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Done I don't see it in the sources either, though I'll check again. Even if I do find it, I'll leave it out to avoid confusion (and the age isn't relevant anyway). Heythereimaguy (talk) 20:44, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

I agree, upon reading the sources the most that I could get was from CNN, "The vehicle, a white Ford F-150 Lightning electric truck, is registered to a Houston man who has worked for the car dealership where the vehicle was sold", it's probably an error. @Fluoborate look in the "Events" section, there are several sources describing the suspect (such as CNN - "The FBI has identified the suspect as a 42-year-old Texas man and Army veteran.") 🪐 Xarinu 🪐 (Talk 2 Me :] ) 20:51, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Possible connection to air b-n-b fire

https://www.nola.com/news/crime_police/bourbon-street-attack-airbnb/article_3b1a89c0-c851-11ef-b4d9-f333210ff2e7.amp.html CaitlinC6 (talk) 18:03, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Done Since this is not confirmed, I put it in the investigation section since investigators are investigating it. Heythereimaguy (talk) 21:19, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Unconfirmed count: 11-16

From the press conference right now, it's confirmed 11 (including the murderer) were killed, but some news sources are announcing 16 (including the murderer) were killed, with 4 more dying at the hospital LeSirDiego (talk) 19:35, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

'UPDATE: NBC has changed its new banner from "At Least 15 Killed" to "At Least 10 Killed" LeSirDiego (talk) 20:08, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

15 dead confirmed

https://www.nola.com/news/crime_police/live-update-new-orleans-attack/article_dc15c750-c855-11ef-8f68-93e4d0b4450e.html 2600:8807:E45:EA00:1165:AF6B:2387:43F (talk) 22:39, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Multiple Suspects under ISIS

According to the New Orleans Police Department, multiple suspects may have acted also with Jabbar in the killings which may be related to ISIS, though it is still unconfirmed currently. LeSirDiego (talk) 19:40, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Might have a BLPCRIME issue but I would like input from more experienced editors. the wildfire update guy that also writes about other weather (talk) 19:44, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Is there a concrete ask here? We have an investigation section that already covers this. Einsof (talk) 19:45, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

I would wait to see, though it might be already covered. LeSirDiego (talk) 19:48, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

An investigation will always look at whether there are multiple actors. But I haven't seen anything saying that there are "multiple suspects". O3000, Ret. (talk) 19:55, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

The FBI is reporting other people involved in placing explosive devices around the area (per AP). Skarmory (talk • contribs) 20:19, 1 January 2025 (UTC) Re-added at 22:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Likely not, you would think they would also be shooting or setting up stuff at the scene. SimpleSubCubicGraph (talk) 20:18, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

The FBI is reporting other people involved in placing explosive devices around the area (per AP). Skarmory (talk • contribs) 20:19, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

UPDATE: AP is confirming that more people were involved as video shows some men and one woman putting what is supposedly a bomb down. LeSirDiego (talk) 20:30, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Link? O3000, Ret. (talk) 20:34, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

As per the NO police, the person in the truck placed two IEDs before the truck attack. Other reported IEDs were false reports. O3000, Ret. (talk) 16:45, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 1 January 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Snowball Oppose. This process has been open for 3 hours but there's clearly no love for the new move target. BusterD (talk) 23:26, 1 January 2025 (UTC) BusterD (talk) 23:26, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

2025 New Orleans truck attack → 2025 New Orleans attack – The attack combines shooting, pursuit and a ramming attack. 178.81.55.110 (talk) 19:47, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Though it may be easier to know, the thing is that maybe their may be more attacks in New Orleans, so keep where it was originally. LeSirDiego (talk) 19:50, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose - per COMMONNAME. Other aspects not significant/impactful enough to be included IMO. Similar to the RM on Tornado outbreak of December 10-11, 2021 the wildfire update guy that also writes about other weather (talk) 19:51, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose. This attack is distinguished by the fact that the majority of the casualties were from people being run over. Einsof (talk) 19:52, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose per Einsof, as well as the fact that any criminal behavior can be seen as an "attack" and we're less than one day into the year. CrazyC83 (talk) 20:27, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Support. The truck did not attack, it makes no sense to copy the framing of mass media that likes to detract from persons, putting the blame on objects as if it was an inevitable lightning strike (pun intended here due to the vehicle, still wondering whether it was carefully chosen to be an EV, for silence and weight). For those who, in earnest?!, expect more attacks in 2025 New Orleans, move to "2025 New Year's Day New Orleans attack" after the second attack has occurred, maybe an "2025 New Orleans ammunition attack"? 2003:C6:372A:F3AA:C01D:A47A:7719:D03D (talk) 20:35, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Support - It is a very significant attack and the truck part does not do it justice enough. SimpleSubCubicGraph (talk) 20:58, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose - Too early. O3000, Ret. (talk) 21:00, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose - "2025 New Orleans Attack" is a little too ambiguous IMO. Could refer to other potential events. 🪐 Xarinu 🪐 (Talk 2 Me :] ) 21:01, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose - I agree with LeSirDiego in that just naming it "attack" does not discriminate with any other attack that may happen later. The title should be specific enough that a reader can quickly find exactly which attack they are looking for. Using the word "truck" in the name quickly delineates exactly which attack the read is looking for. — TadgStirkland (Tadg) 21:01, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose. My immediate concern is that there may be other attacks in NO, such as LerSirDiego stated. If the name were to change, I'd suggest something along the lines of "2025 New Orleans New Years Day attack." Therguy10 (talk) 21:03, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Agree with your suggestion AddInfinty (talk) 22:08, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

support clearly both.Sportsnut24 (talk) 21:15, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose as changing it to just 2025 New Orleans attack is too broad. There are shootings frequently in the area. The title is currently specific enough as the investigation develops. If there should be a change, it should make it more specific not less specific. Ktkvtsh (talk) 21:18, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose for now per common name and too soon. My crystal ball says we might be making a more precise name change in the next few days/weeks anways as more details emerge.TiggerJay (talk) 21:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose for now. I note that articles like 2018 Toronto van attack are named similarly. Jno.skinner (talk) 21:41, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose until 2026 – It's the more common name currently, and there's an entire year's worth of opportunities for another notable attack in a city of 400,000 (let alone that Mardi Gras hasn't happened yet). That said, I do agree with the nom's rationale that this is a combined ramming and shooting attack, not just attacking with the truck (as opposed to something like Charlottesville car attack which was strictly done using a vehicle). There is precedent such as 2015 San Bernardino attack, which was a mass shooting (not a combined attack) but which we just call "attack". TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 22:50, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Army service

The WSJ reports that he served, not worked for, the army, including a deployment to Afghanistan and he was a sergeant. See here. nableezy - 20:14, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Done Added it along with the NYTimes info describing his employment. Heythereimaguy (talk) 20:36, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

The truck attacked?

"I did not do it", says the truck. Will you ever learn not to follow the media deception and framing? 2003:C6:372A:F3AA:C01D:A47A:7719:D03D (talk) 16:34, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Restored because section was removed with false claim. Problem still stands: misleading article title that blames an object. 2003:C6:372A:F3AA:C01D:A47A:7719:D03D (talk) 20:25, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

You are making a good point in a needlessly combative way. I have gone through the article and reworded in places to make it clear that a driver or motorist did this, not a vehicle by itself. If there are still more changes along those lines that you think need to be made, you'll have to state them explicitly rather than vaguely castigating people and hoping they intuit what exactly you want. Einsof (talk) 21:32, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

15 dead?

Various news organizations are reporting that the death toll has risen to 15. This new number hasn't become consensus yet, and another editor has strangely and unhelpfully been reverting a category related to terrorism (even though it's well documented in the article, including the lead) so I don't want to edit at this point and get into it with someone obviously interested in edit warring. But if it is indeed 15 now, we should prepare to make an edit. Juneau Mike (talk) 21:32, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

There is no rush to have up to the minute accurate numbers when it comes to fatalities. We're WP:NOTNEWS so there is no huge need to keep it rapidly up to date, and this has, in the past, led to accidentally inflated numbers because new outlets are also guilty of getting the numbers out first instead of accurately. I think where the infobox says 11+, and the inline "at least" works well enough. TiggerJay (talk) 21:45, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

There is also no need for the condescending tone. Nobody is "rush"ing anything. I just asked that people be mindful that the death toll numbers may soon change. Any perceived sense of urgency over it is in your imagination. Juneau Mike (talk) 21:49, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Sorry if you a reading it as condescending, that is not what was intended. I would also clearly that YOU are not individually rushing. However, with virtually an edit per minute, people are rushing. The concern in these sorts of article is always accuracy. For example, looking at infobox for number of people injured we see (simply reviewing edits on the hour marks) at 14:00 30+, at 15:00 36+, at 19:00 dropped to 36 exactly, at 20:00 dropped to 25+ -- which persists until sometime between 22:00 and 23:00 hours when it was bumped up yet again to 35+. This demonstrates the need to slow down... Again, not you specifically, but broadly applied towards breaking news. There is no benefit to these rapidly changing numbers. TiggerJay (talk) 23:46, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Coroner has confirmed 15 dead 79.97.116.51 (talk) 22:44, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Please remember that WP:BLP applies to the recently deceased.

This would include both victims and the suspect. Please operate with appropriate caution accordingly regarding elements such as assumptions of guilt. Simonm223 (talk) 21:46, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Redacted accusation of guilt by an IP. O3000, Ret. (talk) 01:35, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Frankly that is irrelevant to WP:BLP requirements which, I assure you, apply for every single named person in this article. There needs to be a major cut-back in unsourced and poorly sourcwd claims going into this article.

Slow down. Simonm223 (talk) 01:27, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Long Gun Name

At time of writing, the long gun is being called an assault rifle, implying it is selected fire with a fully automatic option, is that known for sure, or is that a mistake by the initial writers of this article?

And RIP to the Victims of this tragedy. AddInfinty (talk) 22:07, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Agreed. It's incredibly unlikely as machine guns being used in crimes is extremely rare, whereas people incorrectly use "assault weapon" and "assault rifle" interchangeably. At minimum linking to the Assault Rifle page should be removed to avoid adding to the confusion. Personally, I would also just change it to ".308 caliber rifle" as confirmed in media reports: https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-orleans-terror-attack-new-years-revelers-draws-somber-reminder-past-truck-rammings-targeting-crowds 2600:1700:24:F81F:FD95:3AB0:6611:D2AB (talk) 23:01, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

.308 machine guns are even more rare, btw. In theory it's possible they converted a semi-auto rifle to be automatic, but again that's extremely rare in the US. Occam's razor. 2600:1700:24:F81F:FD95:3AB0:6611:D2AB (talk) 23:07, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

I agree. The current link is too ambiguous and could confuse people. Carbonylgroup314 (talk) 03:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

The sources currently say "assault rifle," so the writers at news orgs put that. Heythereimaguy (talk) 00:20, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Rifles that are chambered in .308 are typically referred to as “Battle Rifles” by the gun industry. Just thought I would throw this out there 24.112.172.7 (talk) 02:47, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

This is irrelevant. Misplaced Pages doesn't care about the technical definitions of firearms that are held quite preciously by some hobbyists and by lobbyists who want to see their firearms remain available to civilian buyers. It cares about what reliable sources say. If reliable sources say he was using an assault rifle and what they actually mean is a semi-automatic carbine with military styling rather than a firearm with a full-auto toggle then we, at Misplaced Pages, will dutifully call the semi-auto an assault rifle until such time as reliable sources correct themselves. Simonm223 (talk) 12:49, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

It is rather quite relevant. This isn't some argument over semantics made by "lobbyists". There is a substantial difference between a select-fire rifle and semi-automatic rifle. Would it not be more apt to only include the link after such information is well known? Carbonylgroup314 (talk) 15:32, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

We must follow what the reliable sources are telling us. Now where I would possibly suggest the consensus might be found is that yes, the news media is often wrong when describe all sorts of things which have technical nuance to them. There is a huge lack of true investigative reporting and they often continue to push out false caricatures of things. When you are a WP:SME in an area, often the reported news of such drives you mad with frustration. So what I would say is that if a reliable source provides the actual type of gun used, and we have that type of gun listed on WP, then it might be appropriate to use our WP article (per guidelines at WP:CIRCULAR), to describe the nature of the gun. Otherwise it is just WP:OR & WP:SYNTH which, regardless of how correct you might be from a technical standpoint, is not how things are edited here. TiggerJay (talk) 15:43, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

There is no requirement that an assault rifle be fully automatic. The M16/M4 variants were only recently reintroduced for military use with full auto. Full auto weapons for civilian use are basically collector's items. GMG 16:01, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 2 January 2025

The result of the move request was: not moved. WP:SNOW closure per overwhelming opposition; there is clearly no current appetite for the proposed title. (closed by non-admin page mover) SerialNumber54129 13:05, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

2025 New Orleans truck attack → 2025 Bourbon Street massacre – Apologies if this has been pre-discussed.

"2025 Bourbon Street massacre" would delineate the setting (Bourbon Street, New Orleans) and nature of such event. I hence propose this article be retitled as the aforementioned. ManOfDirt (talk) 22:15, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

I would be against this per COMMONNAME but would like to hear what others would say. the wildfire update guy that also writes about other weather (talk) 22:20, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

You should probably wait a week for the current move request to run its course, and then propose it. Einsof (talk) 22:25, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

current RM is done, you can post your idea at RM now. the wildfire update guy that also writes about other weather (talk) 00:07, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

SUPPORT New Orleans is too general. Bourbon Street is better. It doesn't have to be massacre but Bourbon Street is better than the current name. ErrorCorrection1 (talk) 01:30, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
Oppose. Current name is factual, simple, NPOV, and clear. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:50, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose - per Google Trends, "New Orleans Attack" is levelling out at 2-3x the search hits of "Bourbon"(New Orleans is about 8x and almost all traffic comes from the attack), although that one was already closed as SNOW oppose. "New Orleans truck attack" has about the same number of hits as "Bourbon". In addition, non-NOLA people would not know where Bourbon Street is. If this RM gets through, a redirect from "2025 New Orleans truck attack" to this article is basically mandatory. Also, "attack" has MASSIVELY more searches than "massacre".

Wildfireupdateman :) (talk) 02:08, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Agree, redirect is based. ManOfDirt (talk) 03:11, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose as per WP:COMMONNAME as consistent with most major news coverage. As stated in the prior RM above, it is possible that in the near future this article might end up with a more precise name as the nature of the attack becomes more established, such as motive, connections to outside groups or whatnot. TiggerJay (talk) 02:16, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose for now Let's wait and see. I agree that the current title is arguably broad, but it's in line with the 2016 Nice truck attack and the 2017 New York City truck attack. Paris1127 (talk) 03:01, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
Well, those are some sucky titles, don't mimic the Grinch when you can be a saint. ManOfDirt (talk) 03:12, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
Why are they bad? They're certainly better than "massacre". PARAKANYAA (talk) 10:13, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
Oppose massacre titles should never be used unless they are WP:COMMONNAME, which this is definitely not. PARAKANYAA (talk) 10:13, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
Oppose: Current title is ok and within article naming guidelines. "Massacre" isn't a suitable word unless it is definitely the WP:COMMONNAME, which it isn't at the moment.--♦IanMacM♦ 10:31, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose as per WP:COMMONNAME. Nightmares26 (talk) 10:49, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose Massacre isn't a suitable title along with not being the WP:COMMONNAME TNM101 (chat) 11:47, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose The term "Bourbon Street is just so foreign to those who doesn't live in New Orleans. It supposed to be sth that address to everyone. Asigooo (talk) 12:20, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose as people outside the United States will be unlikely to be able to contextualize Bourbon Street. Simonm223 (talk) 12:50, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Different name change?

I'd suggest changing the name of the article to "2025 New Orleans New Years Day attack". This is specific enough to be contributed to this certain attack without worrying about any future attacks that may take place. It also removes the worry for "truck" or "rifle" to be used in the name. There is only 1 New Years Day attack in New Orleans, eliminating confusion. Thoughts? Therguy10 (talk) 22:29, 1 January 2025 (UTC) :D

You should probably wait a week for the current move request to run its course, then wait for the other guy above you to propose his and have that run for a week, and then propose yours. Einsof (talk) 22:32, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Works for me! Thanks Therguy10 (talk) 22:36, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

not a ISIS flag it was Black jacket

in this article it say a ISIS flag was hanging from the truck but it was Jacket hears a image of the jacket

🍉 News on X: "better angle showing a black Jacket an not a ISIS flag https://t.co/SL4cqRN5At" / X Christsos (talk) 22:34, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

X is considered unreliable. E_F 22:36, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

"@schrse" uploaded a captioned image to Twitter and that's all. They're not a reliable source. Departure– (talk) 22:58, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

"The FBI said an Islamic State group flag was found in the vehicle and they are investigating the attack as an "act of terrorism" from BBC News. SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:00, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

obviously possible an investigator put the jacket to cover the flag. Stick with what official sources are saying. Gjxj (talk) 12:08, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Names

Don't add the names of the suspect's ex-wives and the truck owner etc per Misplaced Pages:BLPNAME SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:21, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Done I removed the last name that violated BLP. Thanks for removing the others. Heythereimaguy (talk) 23:36, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

“Allegedly intentionally”

It’s clear that the act of terrorism WAS intentional and should be described as such. “Allegedly” is not needed when there are not outside sourcing even using it to describe the terrorist’s intentions. CavDan24 (talk) 01:40, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Came here to say that it also says "a truck was allegedly driven into a crowd" --- if you do that you must change the title to "Alleged 2025 New Orleans truck attack". This is weird... 2600:8800:2C09:3200:197C:16E1:8EF:6FA5 (talk) 01:47, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Diagram

I have created a diagram of the attack according to this article by The New York Times. I am unsure if this diagram is necessary for the article; but considering the 2024 Magdeburg car attack article has a diagram, I think we should include a diagram on this article as well. Bambobee (talk) 05:48, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

At first glance, yes. Tejano512 (talk) 06:36, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

diagram needs some street names or something, there is basically nothing there to give orientation. Gjxj (talk) 12:33, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Excellent. But red line should be more visible (emphasized).10:55, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Infobox image

At a discussion at WP:ERROR, Abductive commented that the picture File:700 block of Canal Street New Orleans.jpg is not related to the actual location. The image is looking south on Canal St,, and zooming in can see its at the intersection with Royal (left side). However, the crime scene at Bourbon is a block north, which seems to be more like 800 Bourbon. —Bagumba (talk) 06:03, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

I removed it.—Bagumba (talk) 06:27, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Looking up Bourbon Street toward the New Orleans Central Business District

Does this image from Bourbon Street make sense? Current image of a CCTV still of the truck during the attack is too poor.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:40, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Do we know if this specific location shown was part of the actual ramming? Or is it just a general image of what the area looks like? If used, the caption should be clear on this. —Bagumba (talk) 10:58, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

I remember seeing something saying the truck crashed in front of Larry Flints.

one new outlet is using a photo of officers at this same location here Ktkvtsh (talk) 14:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

According to that source (and the map in the Misplaced Pages article), the truck crashed near Conti St, a block ahead of that picture. So the caption could at best say it was near the scene. —Bagumba (talk) 14:41, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Agreed. Ktkvtsh (talk) 14:43, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

The religion of the perpetrator in the lede

@Justthefacts, would you please clarify to me further how the religion of the perpetrator is related to his motive? If anything, it would be his potential affiliation with IS that is related to his motive, which is already covered in the lede.

Reminder that even the perpetrators of 9/11 don't have their religions mentioned in the lede of their articles. — 🧀Cheesedealer 07:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Removed this, and agree that the placement of this early on in the lead is not ideal. It may imply - albeit unintentionally - that he did this simply because he was a Muslim. Joe Biden has said that the attacker was influenced by Islamic State, which is an extremist organization and is not the same thing as Islam.--♦IanMacM♦ 08:42, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

"Born and raised"??

how did "born and raised" make it into the article?! Citations say he was a US citizen and "living" in TX, there is no proof or news data saying he was born or raised in TX. Why was that even added in the first place? For what reason?? 2601:1C2:4F00:BE0:3E4D:F311:C18:CBF7 (talk) 11:44, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Chron is reporting that he was born in Texas, which is one of the citations in place. "and raised" could be dropped as that's not really adding anything. -- D'n'B-📞 -- 11:52, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

A video released by ABC News showed him talking in a Zoom meeting to employees, saying that he was born and raised in Beaumont, Texas. 2600:1702:5225:C010:1159:D405:B289:B0F (talk) 14:04, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

FBI Claims in Wiki voice

I think we should be more cautious on single-sourcing claims to the FBI. It is an involved primary source. I know this may seem like nit-picking but the slow, cautious and correct approach is far better than BLP violations. We should be attributing statements from the FBI which, of course, are due. They should just not be treated as gospel. Simonm223 (talk) 12:55, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Start of events section

I'm not satisfied with how the events section starts from a narratological perspective. Is nothing in reliable sources about his actions before he circumvented the police vehicle? Simonm223 (talk) 13:03, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

This video https://www.fox8live.com/2025/01/01/video-shows-truck-driving-around-police-barricade-before-deadly-new-orleans-terror-attack/ shows the truck in traffic and then skidding via acceleration around the police vehicle onto Bourban street. Buster Seven Talk (UTC) 14:00, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Previous religion

may you add that he attended a local Christian church prior to conversion

https://www.theadvocate.com/news/crime_police/bourbon-street-assailant-was-us-military-member/article_38fd1d4a-a311-52f6-a912-f8a7ef74d6d8.html

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/new-orleans-truck-attack-suspect-jabbars-family-speaks-out-erratic-behavior-after-converting-to-islam/articleshow/116875876.cms 166.181.86.70 (talk) 13:57, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Seems undue. What's the relevance? Simonm223 (talk) 14:02, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Since his conversion is mentioned, its notable what his conversion was from as we dont state that yet. 164.119.5.96 (talk) 14:58, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

I would suggest that we should not be going into exhaustive explorations of speculation on the theology of a person who is subject to WP:BLP provisions. Stick to the minimal material that is published in reliable secondary sources - (and preferably not pages hosted by news media companies to aggregate employee tweets in lieu of actually investigating before publishing). Simonm223 (talk) Simonm223 (talk) 15:00, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Cleanup tag

I added the tag because the article contradicts itself about:

Whether Jabbar is a suspect or the perpetrator - both terms are used confusingly when describing him.
Whether the incident status is confirmed to have been a terrorist attack, or whether the motive for the attack is, as yet, unknown - both statuses are confusingly used when referring to it.

We need clarity and verifiability, that is all. -- DeFacto (talk). 16:30, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Victims' ethnicities?

Is there an encyclopedic reason to note that the youngest victim is a Palestinian-American man? (I have no horse in the Mideast conflict, it just seems weird.) It could make sense if the victim's identity were somehow relevant to the attack (e.g. hate crime), or if they were a recent immigrant or something, as Misplaced Pages often notes when people from other countries are victims of terror attacks (9/11 article has an entire section foreign casualties). But the cited source doesn't indicate for sure that either of these is the case.

Without meeting the above criteria it comes across as trivia/cruft at best and possibly not fair to the other victims - will we be noting the ethnicities of all the victims or just this particular one? Ereb0r (talk) 16:39, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Given that there is a mix and apparently indiscriminate attack; I don't see the point in inclusion. O3000, Ret. (talk) 17:58, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

"american-born"?

where in that FBI statement does it say jabbar is american-born?

he may well be, but all it says there is "US citizen". not at all the same! 2601:18A:807C:1C40:400B:AF09:BF5B:50E6 (talk) 16:51, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

There are cites in the body. There are innumerable sources for this. This is the third time you have brought this up. He is not an illegal immigrant and Trump is not a reliable source.O3000, Ret. (talk) 16:53, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

third time? this is my VERY FIRST POST on the matter!

the line IN THE LEDE cites the FBI statement. if it came from some other source cited later, that needs to be corrected. 2601:18A:807C:1C40:400B:AF09:BF5B:50E6 (talk) 17:15, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

According to CHRON is was stated during a press conference that he was born in Texas which is still in America. The lede isn't typically where details are cited so there's nothing that needs to be corrected. Some other IPs have asked the same question on this talk page, it seems to be a detail many people are concerned about, but this does appear to be the first time that you've asked it. -- D'n'B-📞 -- 17:29, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 2 January 2025

It has been proposed in this section that 2025 New Orleans truck attack be renamed and moved to 2025 New Orleans New Years Day attack.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

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2025 New Orleans truck attack → 2025 New Orleans New Years Day attack – This is specific enough to be attributed to this certain attack without worrying about any future attacks that may take place - there is only one 2025 New Years Day attack in New Orleans. It also removes the worry for "truck" or "firearm" to be used in the name. Plus, I believe that this name is easily searchable as it still retains "2025", "New Orleans", and "attack", which are all keywords when looking for this article. Therguy10 (talk) 16:55, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

'Suspects'

Why is the section titled that, seeing as there's only one suspect? Norbillian (talk) 17:02, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, fixed. O3000, Ret. (talk) 17:04, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Update needed for FBI findings

Recent AP reporting (January 1-2, 2025) shows outdated information in citations 4-6 regarding FBI's investigation. Current AP coverage states:

"The FBI says that the New Orleans attacker acted alone. The agency also finds 'no definitive link' to the truck explosion in Las Vegas."

This contradicts earlier text stating FBI "did not believe the driver acted alone."

Proposed citation update: Tucker, Eric; Mustian, Jim; McGill, Kevin; Brook, Jack (January 1, 2025). "Islamic State-inspired driver expressed desire to kill before deadly New Orleans rampage, Biden says". Associated Press. Retrieved January 2, 2025.

Will update text accordingly if no objections within 24 hours. Randall N. Brock (talk) 17:08, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Update needed for FBI findings (part 2)

FBI's latest statements require updating the paragraph about perpetrator identification. Current text includes outdated speculation about incident connections.

Original: "The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) identified the driver as Shamsud-Din Jabbar, an American-born resident of Houston, Texas. An Islamic State (ISIS) flag was found on the back of the truck. The FBI is investigating the attack as an act of terrorism. It is additionally being investigated along with a vehicle explosion at Trump International Hotel Las Vegas that occurred the same day and shares perpetrator similarities."

Proposed revision: "The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) identified the driver as Shamsud-Din Jabbar, an American-born resident of Houston, Texas. An Islamic State (ISIS) flag was found on the back of the truck. The FBI is investigating the attack as an act of terrorism and has confirmed the attacker acted alone. While a vehicle explosion occurred at Trump International Hotel Las Vegas on the same day, the FBI has found "no definitive link" between the incidents."

Sources: AP News (January 2, 2025): "The FBI says that the New Orleans attacker acted alone. The agency also finds 'no definitive link' to the truck explosion in Las Vegas." Randall N. Brock (talk) 17:23, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Jabbar's Life Before The Army

The Beaumont Enterprise has recently confirmed new details about Jabbar's early life. According to the Beaumont Enterprise, Jabbar attended Central Medical Magnet High School until his 2001 graduation. Some classmates who knew Jabbar liked to call him "Sham" for short. A friend of his described Shamsud-Din as someone who "always helped people and very smart". However, one student remembers him and Jabbar taking a couple of classes at Central together and described Jabbar as "quiet". Jabbar left Beaumont to join the army in 2006.

Exactly one year before the attack, Imam Fahmee Al-Uqdah spoke to CBS station KFDM-TV saying that he remembers seeing Jabbar early last year when Shamsud-Din Jabbar came back to Beaumont to be with his father while dealing with health issues. He also described him as both "scholarly and quiet". Imam tells KFDM that Jabbar's family asked him to convey the message that "the tragic incident was driven by hatred and ignorance and Jabbar's actions do not reflect the religion of Islam. The Muslim community condemns the attack and is saddened by the loss of life."

"I saw Shamsud-Din," Imam Al-Uqdah told KFDM. "I spoke to him the early part of last year. He was in town to help care for his father while his father was going through physical therapy, because of the aftermath of what looks like a stroke. Lot of compassion. He seemed rather scholarly, extraordinary human. The love he was showing for his father and the care, that is what I remember. I'm shocked by this whole thing, that Jabbar is alleged to have committed the horrific act. It brings tears to my eyes for the innocent victims."

2600:1702:5225:C010:1159:D405:B289:B0F (talk) 17:25, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

This is interesting but I don't know if a childhood nickname is WP:DUE to be included in this article. -- D'n'B-📞 -- 17:42, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

I don't know either, but this will be something to add if the administrators can give a green light. 2600:1702:5225:C010:1159:D405:B289:B0F (talk) 17:52, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Image of the Suspect

Has anyone confirmed that the image listed on the WP page is the actual suspect? It doesn't seem to reflect the person shown in journalistic accounts, and I seem to recall reading that there was some confusion about his appearance, as someone with an identical name was found online. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:4670:9490:C887:DDBB:17CD:B77D (talk) 17:47, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

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