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Talk:Ich bin ein Berliner

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A fact from this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the On this day section on June 26, 2004, June 26, 2005, June 26, 2006, June 26, 2008, June 26, 2009, June 26, 2012, and June 26, 2013.
Kennedy did not say "I am a donut". Period.

Before you decide to post anything about the urban legend that Kennedy made an error resulting in saying "I am a donut", please consider the following:

  • The phrase "Ich bin ein Berliner" is grammatically correct and extremely unlikely (although not completely impossible) to have been misunderstood as meaning "I am a donut".
  • In all of Germany, "Berliner" primarily means a "person from or citizen of Berlin". In some areas, "Berliner" may also mean donut; however, this is not the case in or around Berlin.
  • The kernel of truth is, had Kennedy said "Ich bin Berliner", the interpretation as "I am a donut" would have been impossible. As he said "Ich bin ein Berliner", it was not quite impossible, but extremely unlikely.
  • While the urban legend is well-known in the English-speaking world, in Germany it is not — more evidence that it has no basis in fact.
  • Please see Jelly doughnut urban legend section for more reasons why Kennedy did not cause any misunderstanding.
  • This topic has been thoroughly discussed on this page. Please read those discussions first (including the archived ones); do not post unless you have something original to say that hasn't been covered yet.

from a native German

If somebody in germany says "I am a Berliner" (Ich bin ein Berliner) nobody thinks of a doughnut. So it is clear in germany nobody laughed when he said "Ich bin ein Berliner." This joke is a completely american invention. Is is not known in Germany.
Jms (talk) 15:50, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

There are differences between German as spoken in Berlin, and elsewhere. Do we have a comment from a well-educated Berliner, that should put an end to the matter?Royalcourtier (talk) 20:04, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

i was stationed in Mannheim in USArmy 1983 and the tall German woman who taught us the rudiments of the german language said that due to the New England accent the Berliner sounded like the term for a Ba-lin-a a type of jelly donut,. But due to the gravity of the situation, and the German people's warm reception of people trying to pronouce correctly, even if not perfect from foreigners 2600:6C4E:97F:F65E:1464:E66C:AA32:15CE (talk) 22:07, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

to the former Manheimer, the words berliner (citizen of Berlin) and Berliner (doughnot) are pronounced exactly the same. There is no difference. I am German. 84.215.194.30 (talk) 12:51, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Notes

The phrase and the legend in fiction and popular culture

  • In the X-Files episode "Schizogeny", Mulder erroneously tells a teen with the poster "Ich bin ein Auslander" (mistakenly spelled Auslander, correct spelling is Ausländer) that when Kennedy said "Ich bin ein Berliner" he was saying "I am a Berliner ", leading to the teen's response: "Who's Kennedy?".
I have always had a memory of Mulder saying 'Did you know that when JFK said 'Ich bin ein Berliner' he was actually saying 'I am a cocktail sausage'.' Different episode perhaps?Robbmonster (talk) 09:48, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Robbmonster's right. That IS what he actually says, in that episode. However, he also mistranslates "auslander" as "outsider", when it actually means "foreigner/outlander". Does anyone know from where Mulder gets the cocktail sausage thing? I can't seem to find it anywhere else.Mousenight (talk) 08:13, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
  • The legend also appears in Berlin Game, the first book in Len Deighton's Game, Set, Match trilogy. Deighton describes German cartoonists drawing "talking doughnuts" the next day, but there is no historical evidence for this.
  • The short story "Told You So" by Esther M. Friesner in the 1992 alternate-history anthology Alternate Kennedys has Kennedy being granted the ability to have his every utterance become reality and being turned into a jelly donut when he says the famous phrase.
  • According to British comedian Alexei Sayle, prior to the speech Kennedy wrapped himself in black plastic. He then mounted the podium and proclaimed: "Ich bin ein Binliner".
  • In an episode of Seinfeld, Jerry makes a reference to the "Ich bin ein Berliner" speech when Elaine displays her interest in JFK Jr. Commentary subtitles to the DVD mistakenly report the "jelly doughnut" legend as fact.
  • Artist Achim Mentzel released a CD titled Ich bin ein Berliner with a track of the same name.
  • The British band 'Blurt has a song about this called "Bullets For You" on the album with the same title.
  • The famous parts of the speech are heavily sampled in the The Passage's song "brd usa ddr jfk" from their 1983 album Enflame.
  • In an episode of The Tick, the Tick is sent to Antwerp, Belgium and ends up proclaiming "Ich bin ein Berliner." to a stupefied audience.
  • In episode 7 of Sealab 2021, "Little Orphan Angry", the orphan boy says of Griff's banking scam, "Ich bin impressed!"
    • A later episode of Sealab, "Craptastic Voyage", features Tornado Shanks with a tiny submarine in his brain that crashes into his language center. Shanks promptly mutters the line: "Ich bin ein Berliner" to which John F. Kennedy shows up stating: "Hey, hey, that's my line, tumorface!"
  • In the book The Year of Secret Assignments, on page 193 & 194 (page 217 in the book's alternate version Finding Cassie Crazy), there is a paragraph as follows:

    "Well, what happened was, a former president of the United States went to Berlin, Germany, and he shouted at the crowd: 'Ich bin ein Berliner!!' Now, for some reason which I cannot fathom, he was trying to say, 'I am a resident of Berlin!!' (He wasn't.) But, for some reason which I also cannot fathom, he was actually saying: 'I am a jelly doughnut!'

  • In the episode "Simpson Tide" of The Simpsons Abraham Simpson recalls the time when he was on the PT 109 with John F. Kennedy and heard him say, "Ich bin ein Berliner". Abe then yells to his shipmates, "He's a Nazi! Get him!" and he and the crew beat him up. In another episode "Burns Verkaufen der Kraftwerk", Mayor Quimby (himself somewhat of a parody of Kennedy) in an effort to welcome German businessmen, says, "Ich bin ein Springfielder!".
  • In an episode of The Mask The Animated Series (Flight As A Feather), during a ceremony declaring Barvariaville, a German-themed neighborhood near Edge City, as the exclusive vendor of pretzels for all city functions, Mayor Tilton says, "Ich bin ein Barvariavillian.
  • In the film Blades of Glory this phrase can be heard at the beginning of the musical sequence for the double figure skating pair of Stranz Van Waldenberg (dressed as John F. Kennedy) and Fairchild Van Waldenberg (dressed as Marilyn Monroe).
  • In "The Baby Shower", an episode of Seinfeld, George states, "Ich bin ein sucker."
  • The English comedian Eddie Izzard references the urban legend in his show 'Dress to Kill'.
  • In an episode of the 1990s American television series Profiler, the villian says to his father, "Ich bin Vanderhorn". (70.25.69.63)
  • It also appears in the third episode "Ich Bin Ein Berliner" of the US television series Pan Am. 15:57, 18 October 2011‎ Metre01

Discussion of German Misplaced Pages

The article presently has The myth entered the German Misplaced Pages article "Ich bin Berliner" in May 2005 brought over from the English version where it had been discussed since the creation of the article in October 2001. It was already marked as an urban legend at the time in 2005. The German version settled on a section title "misconception in the english-speaking world" (Missverständnis im englischsprachigen Raum) by January 2007. with both of these sentences being cited with permalinks to the German Misplaced Pages. This is a use of WP:PRIMARY sources, and while WP:CIRCULAR allows citation of Misplaced Pages to discuss Misplaced Pages, it also notes Misplaced Pages or the sister project is a primary source in this case and may be used following the policy for primary sources. Any such use should avoid original research, undue emphasis on Misplaced Pages's role or views, and inappropriate self-reference. The article text should clarify how the material is sourced from Misplaced Pages to inform the reader about the potential bias. As such, this article would benefit from a WP:SECONDARY source to show that this isn't undue, to properly contexualize it, etc. I have not deleted anything, just requested there be an additional reference other than Misplaced Pages itself, but this whole paragraph seems to be WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH and full of WP:SYNTHESIS. Umimmak (talk) 17:54, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

crowd size?

I may be overlooking something but it appears that one part of the article says 150,000 people were in attendance, and in another, 450,000 - start of paragraph 4 in introduction, and first paragraph of Delivery section. Of if these numbers refer to different groups rather than different estimates, perhaps that could be clarified? Rosie Willis (talk) 00:31, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

  1. 'Little Berlin' marks 40th anniversary of its own Cold War wall
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