Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ghirlandajo (talk | contribs) at 12:31, 5 July 2007 (→[]). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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{{User WikiProject Poland}}

This user is a member of the WikiProject Poland.

{{User WPMILHIST Polish military history task force}}

There is also a Portal:Poland/Welcome that can be used to notify users about this noticeboard and our related projects. Just slap {{subst:Portal:Poland/Welcome}}--~~~~ on their usertalkpage - it has its own heading.

Anna Grabka

If a Polish speaker could look up some sources for Anna Grabka, a ballerina who is currently up for deletion, and add them to her article that will help establish her notability. The article is here —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nick mallory (talk • contribs).

Polish Tatars

There is a discussion taking place about whether Polish Tatars/ Muslims deserve to be in the Polish-Americans page. Please leave your opinions on the discussion page. --Orestek 08:40, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Could you link the specific discussion page?-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  17:36, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

He probably meant this. Jacek Kendysz 00:54, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Believe it or not, this will probably need a disambiguation page. There is a well-known polka/novelty/satire band in Detroit, named the "Polish Muslims".Pustelnik 16:41, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Ignacy Łukasiewicz

I have noticed that articles relating to the oil industry suffer from a serious lack of sources. Apparently the industry's various parts "first started" in a dozen places and often hundreds of years apart. Using the rule that anything important obviously started in Poland I'd like some help finding reliable sources to prove Lukasiewicz's achievements. I own a really good book on the issue by Harvard University Press which I've added as a source but have trouble finding more English language material that would stand up to scrutiny.

Additionally I suggest adding the article to the "to be expanded" list because it's in need of well, some expanding. JRWalko 14:16, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

It would certainly be possible to bring it up to GA with a little expansion and internal citations.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  15:29, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

You could argue that the Polish oil industry started in Austria. Galicia was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire when the first oil wells were started.Pustelnik 16:43, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

History of Belarus

A masterpiece of Soviet propaganda.Xx236 08:24, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Looking into it. User:Zscout370 08:35, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Examples:

• "Polish population often collaborated with German occupation administration." - As if the Belarus one didn't.
• "In total, Belarus lost a quarter of its pre-war population in the Second World War." - Belarus had more population after the war than before it.

Xx236 08:39, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the Belarusians had one. I know of an Oxford paper that discusses the Belarusian-Nazi collaboration, but trying to find sources now at nearly 2 am; it's going to be tough. As for the population, all I am seeing is that either 1/4 or a 1/3 of the population was killed (some numbers were combined with the deaths caused by the Soviet government). User:Zscout370 08:49, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

About the population, it seems the Government is saying a 1/4th, even some other websites are saying the thing. The closest thing I could find to a statics is from BelStat.gov. The earliest is goes is the early 1960's. User:Zscout370 08:55, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Of which population - BSSR, BSSR+part of Poland? BTW - the Soviet statistics are faked, they partially assign victims of Soviets to the Nazis.Xx236 08:59, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

From the stats that I found, the designation is not clear. However, if I have to take a guess, it would be the BSSR (without the part of Poland). I assume the exact number will not be known, since documents were probably "lost" during the war, looting and I am sure record keeping wasn't the best in the world in the Soviet Union and in Poland. I'll try and see what else I can personally find, but some of the information you are asking for, I don't think they will be found. User:Zscout370 09:41, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

99% that the alleged looses include Polish citizens, so the statement is literally false. The numbers include also people who died in Siberia or run away with Anders. Nazi repressions were partially caused by Soviet partizans. Xx236 10:30, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Belarusian resistance movement - a masterpiece. It was Soviet resistance movement in Belarus.Xx236 10:37, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Omg....Xx236, I wish I knew about these articles soon. I know many Belarusian articles I didn't edit seem to have massive POV issues. I wish there were some other Belarusian editors I can kick this around to, but Rydel has died, Monkbel is afk and everyone else is busy. I can see if I can try my hand at the resistance article later (now I need some sleep). User:Zscout370 10:40, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Occupation of Belarus by Nazi Germany contains the same text as History of Belarus, with small edits. Maybe integration would be needed? The author was User:£. Xx236 10:44, 20 June 2007 (UTC) ru:Западная Белоруссия - a masterpiece.Xx236 12:23, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure which one I can start on (but the last one, I don't know enough Russian to fix it). User:Zscout370 19:47, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

It's impossible to fix such Soviet propaganda. I have quoted this text as an exmple of Soviet tradition.Xx236 06:35, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

On here, I can fix it as much as I can, I just need time. User:Zscout370 09:03, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Magistrala Weglowa or Polish Coal Trunk-Line

Which is a better title for this article? Polish Coal Trunk-Line

I have chosen the English one, but I am still hesitating. Also - photos and more info are welcome

Tymek 19:03, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Is the English name used by English sources? Then let's use English. If not, go with Polish. And remember about references if you want the article DYKed.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  19:39, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I have not come across English name of this route. I will add references soon. Tymek 19:51, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

This translates Magistrala Kolejowa as Trunk Line. Weglowa obviously translates to coal. So Magistrala Weglowa would naturally be Coal Trunk Line. There is no reason to add Polish in front as there is no ambiguity. Balcer 20:15, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

OK, I have added some more info and references and now it looks good. Balcer, I also think that adding "Polish" was not necessary, but I do not know if other nations may have their own Coal Trunk-Lines. If you want to delete it from the title, please do it. Tymek 00:54, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Why Weglowa? Węglowa.Xx236 13:37, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Board elections

It is an important milestone in the history of Misplaced Pages, with a democractic board elections. This tiny article may be quite interesting, I've noticed some candidates from pl wikipedia (I don't know either of them well, but it's interesting to see them there). -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  23:12, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Khatyn and Katyn

The Khatyn article exist only because the place was used as a part of Katyn lies. Yes, I don't have any KGB documents proving it but why Khatyn was choosen from thousands of places in a country where millions of Red Army soldiers weren't buried at that time. Don't tell me - because the Soviet Union respected its victims. The should be one phrase informing about it in the article, even as a Poplish POV - Poles claim that Khatyn was promoted by KGB, as part of Katyn campaign. Xx236 07:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

"The Khatyn article exist only because the place was used as a part of Katyn lies"? You are trolling for a block. Please check Holocaust Denial, too. Misplaced Pages does not welcome folks who deny the event, especially on June 22, the National Day of Mourning in the country where WWII claimed more lives than in the rest of the world. --Ghirla 12:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

A Thesis Presented to the Department of History Western Illinois University Xx236 11:57, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The Soviet Union didn't care much about victims of the Nazis. It didn't care about Khatyn victims till it needed this place for propaganda. Yes, I confirm my words - where are the other 9 000 articles about destroied villages in Soviet Union? How many of them have YOU written? Xx236 13:00, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I advise you to stop posting nonsense such as "The Soviet Union didn't care much about victims of the Nazis". It is the country that crushed Fascism and liberated Auschwitz, so you'd better choose your words. Basically, no other country cared for the victims of the Nazis more than they did. If you think that the world revolves around Katyn, why don't you go to Khotin Massacre and dismiss it as another trick of Katyn deniers on account of similarity of their names? As so often, I am struck by the lengths nationalists will go to create their own version of history. --Ghirla 13:07, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Very funny Soviet apology. Yes, the biggest killer in history crushed the second one and liberated a small nuumber of Auschwitz prizoners, using at least Auschwitz subcamps later. Xx236 13:29, 26 June 2007 (UTC) BTW - have you already read the Western Illinois University thesis (see above)?Xx236 13:30, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Xx236, the Khatyn article should definitely exist, to clearly explain the significance of that place. If you have a problem with what it contains, its talk page is the place to discuss it. Please, don't use this page to make controversial and incorrect statements. Your statement that the USSR did not care about the victims of the Nazis is inflammatory and should never have been posted here. This is just a notice board, not a discussion board. Continue this discussion at Talk:Khatyn massacre.Balcer 13:35, 26

I find your comment also inflammatory and containing controversial and incorrect statements. I understand that this is a wrong place and I go, but it's also a wrong place for your statements.Xx236 13:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Second Balcer. Xx236, please don't post messages that are offensive to editors or countries here. We may not be fans of Soviet Union, but there are limits when a reasonable discussion deteriorates into flames, and you seem to be crossing them too often. Please mind that violations of WP:NPA are blockable offences, if repeated long and often enough.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  17:58, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Is it allowed to criticise Nazi Germany? Xx236 11:49, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

external links in Świnoujście

Please help form consensus on Talk:Świnoujście#external link situation. --Mareklug 15:38, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:Aleksander Wielopolski.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Aleksander Wielopolski.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.

As well as adding the source, please add a proper copyright licensing tag if the file doesn't have one already. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Misplaced Pages:Fair use, use a tag such as {{non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags#Fair use. See Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Misplaced Pages:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 14:44, 25 June 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. A.J. 14:44, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

• But don't look very hard for source :) I put excellent photo in article Aleksander Wielopolski. A.J. 14:45, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Categories

Hello. When there is no difference between "city" and "town" in the definition of miasto, should categories "Cities in Poland" and "Towns in Poland" be merged to form "Cities and towns in Poland" ? - Darwinek 21:20, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Tentativly, I think that yes.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  07:41, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Nominated at WP:CFD, please feel free to comment and vote. - Darwinek 19:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

In Polish there is no difference. In English the is a difference between "city" and "town" and I think it will be better for the rest of the world to keep these 2 categories. Anyway in English there is no difference between osiedle typu miejskiego and miasteczko (Białoruś, Rosja) and town is used as well. --Hiuppo 19:49, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Ghirlandajo has removed ~my text from Piotrus page

It's a hyper-censorship - not only remove any critics of the Soviet Union but to control contacts of contributors. Xx236 13:33, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

While I consider removing other users messages very incivil, your message was pointless junk. Please think twice before posting stuff in the future, and this board is certainly not the appopriate forum to discuss that issue - it has nothing to do with Poland. Please mind that in the future.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  17:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Template:Infobox City Poland to Template:Infobox Settlement

In my opinion Template:Infobox City Poland should be merged with Template:Infobox Settlement. There is no reason to use the first one, when the same features can be used in the second. Location map of Poland can be used only with the second one. So I think we should move old template from all articles and use another one. Example? Głogów and . If you want to place twin towns or even town council adress you can at least use blank field in this template. I hope Template:Infobox City Poland will be forgotten. --Hiuppo 19:42, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I concur absolutely. Great work on converting all these towns. When it will be finished you should receive a barnstar and that old ugly template should be deleted. - Darwinek 21:18, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

A lot of work to do left... --Hiuppo 15:08, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be possible to write a bot / script for substitution? -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:52, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe, but I have no idea how to do it. A lot of information is missing also on Polish wikipedia. Problem is also with COA files - some of them are moved do .svg file format. Anyway - if anyone have any idea how to force any bot to do what I have to do manually, you are welcome. --Hiuppo 07:37, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Polonia in the United States

It would be good to create a category related to the Poles in the USA. There is only a category regarding persons "Category:Polish-Americans" but there are many articles about Polish organizations there, Polish churches, Polish festivals etc. Problem is I don't know how to name that category. Any suggestions? - Darwinek 19:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Just follow naming conventions in this category and create Category:Polish American history. Jacek Kendysz 20:15, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Created and populated. - Darwinek 22:15, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Why use subst for the welcome box?

The page for the new users welcome box suggests using subst which replaces the template with its code. Does anyone know the reason why this is preferred? I think that the regular template reference {{sometemplate}} uses less space and more importantly -- doesn't require one to edit dozens of pages in case a change is needed. I am trying to organize how the Polish flags are used on Wiki and have to edit all those user talk pages. I can use a bot -- no problem, but is there any opposition if I replaced the references with regular template links to {{Portal:Poland/Welcome}}? --Wanted 21:19, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Template substitution. Jacek Kendysz 21:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I remember I even read that one. I'm still not quite convinced substitution is better in this case (an optional parameter would be enough to customize the welcome message), but that's fine. --Wanted 22:59, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I like subst because: 1) it doesn't mess up the headings 2) it decreases server load (and I think this is recommended by some policies).-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  02:32, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The server load doesn't seem to be much of an issue -- see the last point in "Benefits" section of Misplaced Pages:Template substitution. What do you mean by messing up headings? --Wanted 06:29, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

If a template created headings, if it is not substituted, clicking 'edit' on the user's page with the intention of leaving him a message under the heading will in fact direct the editor to template page. It's confusing, thus substitution of templates with headings avoids it.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  19:39, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Galician Jews

The Galician Jews reads very POV and kind of like an original essay. I'm not much of an expert on "Galician Jews" but I can't find much research showing that this is any more than a geographic location that had a large population of Polish Jews, definitely not one that's someone a sub-ethnicity worthy of an article like this. Any thought? LeszekB 23:57, 1 July 2007 (UTC) The article contains errors. Isaac Bashevis Singer lived in Warsaw, was he a Galician Jew? I invite you to the Talk page.Xx236 11:57, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Eastern Bloc

Soviet Union influenced 6 countries creating Eastern Bloc (now 7 because of Slovakia). The countries had almost the same political system, economy, political police, censorship, education. Are there any articles describing the Soviet system applied in those 6 countries? I mean not six articles Education in PRL, Education in GDR, but a summary Education in Esatern Bloc. I have written two such articles, one of them was removed as naive, crazy, original research and at the same time repeating information available in this Misplaced Pages. An example of the critics: "What's so special about Soviet university? It's just a university that happens to be in the Soviet Union." The same "what is so special about Pravda, it's a newspaper that happens to be in the SU" or "what is so special about Stalin, it's a president that happens to be in the SU".Xx236 12:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Soviet university. I'd vote 'merge' but I was unaware of the AfD. Next time, try to include better (inline) references.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  16:51, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

The text couldn't have been merged, because it was about Soviet-type universities in Eastern block, not about universities in Soviet Union only. This Misplaced Pages misinforms about the Eastern block, see eg. Lysenkoism was a political campaign against genetics and geneticists which happened in the Soviet Union. The Soviets imposed this ideology to many countries, see about Poland.

The Soviet university article wasn't removed only because of poor references. Non-USSR related referenced material should be merged to the relevant articles, (like Education in Poland) and many other comments. Xx236 13:44, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Present your arguments at WP:AFU then.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  19:38, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Luxtorpeda

Please check the newly created Luxtorpeda article, more info and photos are welcome. Also, check other text about never-finished rail station in Warsaw Warsaw Main Rail Station (interbellum Poland)

greets to all Tymek 18:42, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Fire of Moscow (1812)

says that Polish sources support the story that Russian criminals started the fire. What does Adam Zamoyski write about it?Xx236 13:49, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

You've been told to stop it. Your manner of behaviour on this page is strangely reminiscent of User:Molobo, by the way. --Ghirla 12:31, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Recent changes

• List of recent Poland-related changes. It may be used in order to detect attacks. Colchicum 14:38, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

What criteria are used to select articles that are on that list?-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  15:44, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Being tagged for WikiProject Poland. However, to get rid of the linked dates in the log I probably should address the WP 1.0 bot's owner. Colchicum 16:07, 4 July 2007 (UTC) For Estonian log the dates have been delinked by request and dates don't appear in such a list anymore: User_talk:Oleg_Alexandrov#WP 1.0 bot and linking dates. It is not claer as of now whether this is also true of other assessment logs. Probably I will have to delink the earlier dates manually. Colchicum 16:14, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

villages, town, cities - pictures and history section!

I've been going through pages for Polish villages/town/cities and adding the Project banner as well as reqphoto on most of them...I really think it would be brilliant if some of you could drive around and add pictures to those pages...Also, if you could add a history section, that'd be good...I would try to do that but most of the time the official website - from which the history info can be got - is in Polish, and unfortunately I don't speak the language.Zigzig20s 12:14, 5 July 2007 (UTC)