User talk:David in DC - Misplaced Pages

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Happy Wiki-ing. --MPerel 17:58, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks David in DC 19:03, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

You wrote of :

In every exchange we've had, your comments have been arrogant, high-handed or condescending. I hope the rest does you some good. David in DC 16:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

It is a relief to find that somebody else agrees with what I perceive to be a very condescending attitude on the part of this user. I find myself nearly in fear of expressing an opinion on here lest I be castigated and then have every article I've touched sent for deletion! I feel that some of the admins have a very serious ax to grind. Thanks for speaking your mind. Drew30319 17:02, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Some may find it a relief what you wrote, but frankly, having seen your post, I think you need to read this. If you have reviewed extensive contribution to Misplaced Pages and seen the work he has done here and still come to the same conclusion then accept my apologies since we simply and honestly disagree. But I believe that any honest assessment of overall contribution record leads to the conclusion that he is an outstanding editor, fully committed to the projects goals and someone who acts consistently within the purview they establish. If you don't believe he has acted in good faith sobeit, but I hope you put some thought into your comment before what seems to me a petulant outburst. Eusebeus 22:39, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

actually, you can be fully committed to the project's goals, and still be condescending and rude. He, has recently caused several problems, such as blanking and redirecting Al Gore III's page (essentially overriding several previous decisions to keep it), and continuing to ignore precedent and consensus (as well as polite requests to undo the edit) until another admin undid his edits. He's done this on other pages of late (fixing the edit warring on Prickly City in the same fashion). In addition, he's been sloppy in his redirects; the Al Gore page referred to Al Gore III, and he didn't fix the references (resulting in looped links), even when they were pointed out to him. What David in DC posted, while not polite or what I would have said, was definitely more polite than many things was saying of late, and I do think he needs a break. --Thespian 23:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. One could scarcely contest dedication to Misplaced Pages; his contributions are considerably more extensive than my own. My objections would be over style rather than substance. For all his dedication, I think he could use a healthy dose of prudence and civilty. I wouldn't have put it in as many words as David in DC, but having been the subject of one of his petty personal attacks, I can see where he's coming from. - Peter 01:57, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Add me to the list of people with grieviances. has launched TWO personal attacks against me (once calling me a Tossblanket and another an Asshole), he also censored and locked my userpage for about week, til I was able to find an admin with a spine (in this case Jossi) to come and uncensor it . from the beginning never assumed good faith with me, and yes, high-handed or condescending isn't a bad way of putting some of his behaviour. He's also an outright deletionist - those that spend half their time looking for ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING THEY CAN POSSIBLY DELETE up to the point where they have a total bias against any form of inclussion. I also was left totally voiceless when he called a couple of his cronies to start pontificating in a matter. For these reasons and more, I found to be in many ways a liability to the spirit of Misplaced Pages. I do believe there is merit to the assertion that he was a major constructive editor on Misplaced Pages and therefore somewhat of an asset, but really, what a . If and when he does come back, I sincerely hope he becomes more reasonable. In these kinds of situations my (endorsed) course of action is of course to stay out of his way and ignore him completely, which is what I have done for several months. And will continue to do so. But I value myself as a non-troll, non-liability, constructive wikipedian with a genuine grudge against an admin for what I deem to be purely reasonable, rational, logical reasons. So there we have it. Rfwoolf 15:03, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment ("arrogant, high-handed or condescending"). I was long ago labelled a "troll" and "POV pusher" by , and since then he's treated me with condescension. I got labelled because I opposed a POV pusher whom he happened to admire. Sure he's done some good, but the poisonous atmosphere he creates far outweighs the good. How many potentially good editors have been driven away by his attitude? I personally know of a couple, and I'm sure there are more. If he comes back I hope he sincerely reconsiders his approach. ATren 17:37, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Yup, I am an arrogant, high-handed condescending bastard - which is bad, but not half as bad as being the kind of sad, lifeless bastard who carries on whining about trivial grudges for as long as these two pitiful examples have. 18:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for proving my point. I guess the time off has only intensified your willingness to piss on the civility policy. ATren 19:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Which two? The way I read it you've got four unequivocal critics here (me, Drew, rfwoolf and ATren), one unequivocal endorser (Eusebeus), and two mixed reviews from folks who value your contributions but verify that, "What David in DC posted, while not polite or what I would have said, was definitely more polite than many things was saying of late, and I do think he needs a break" or "For all his dedication, I think he could use a healthy dose of prudence and civilty. I wouldn't have put it in as many words as David in DC, but having been the subject of one of his petty personal attacks, I can see where he's coming from", (Thespian and Peter).

Of the six partial or total criticisms of your comments, which two were made by "the kind of sad, lifeless bastard who carries on whining about trivial grudges"? And if you re-read that quote, does it give you any insight at all into why your tone and actions of late are beyond the pale? David in DC 18:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Total Rubbish. I am the only one who has bothered to rise to defense in these picayune matters. There are hundreds more longstanding editors who would endorse without reservation his qualities as an admin and the value of his contribution. Eusebeus 18:40, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Are there hundreds of editors that would endorse calling another editor ~~asweaty cunt or~~ a whining twat? By all means, let them line up here and endorse him. ATren 19:19, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

ATren, you have just made a tit of yourself. Perhaps an admin would care to check out Special:DeletedContributions/JoeMaculy and tell ATren why I used that block summary with that capitalisation. 22:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, right, , like I have access to that page? Give me a break. I checked his contributions, they were empty from my perspective, and the link you gave me doesn't work. But really, given your use of the terms "twat", "fuck off", "cunt" (elsewhere- you know where), is it so surprising that you would give such an edit summary? ATren 22:17, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Assuming that was his edit summary (which, of course, I can't verify unless I'm an admin), I've stricken that claim, but what about the "whining twat"? What about "fuck off" (which, by the way, is currently front and center on your talk page)? ATren 22:37, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Interestingly, I too could probably attest to some admin "qualities" and the values of his contributions (more to the latter to be absolutely honest). But what happens when an otherwise good admin abuses his power a bit, is uncivil a bit, launches personal attacks a bit, is a hypocrit a bit. Is that not worth mentioning... noting... recording? I agree that this whole page attests to some kind of grilling of sorts, yes, and I'm sure a couple of us can see the asset in . But the rest in all fairness is worth mentioning, don't you agree? Rfwoolf 18:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

What a shame. It appears that rather than "take some time off" that is persisting in his haranguing of editors. I for one am getting very very tired of admins that abuse their power to the extent that they are exhibiting behavior and speech that would, in real-life, get them socked in the ear - at a minimum.

"Perhaps I was a little too subtle above. The message I was trying to convey is this: edit some articles or shut the fuck up you whining twat. 18:14, 11 July 2007 (UTC)"

How am I supposed to care about all of the contributions made by when this is how he is treating fellow editors? I am disgusted that, as an admin, his behavior has been allowed. Were he not an admin I would assume that he would be blocked and given time to "cool off," and rightfully so.

I have not been editing for a great deal of time. When I first started I spoke my mind in a "non-Wiki" manner and learned quickly that my method in doing so was inappropriate. But we're not discussing a new user - not even a "regular" user, this is an admin and as such should represent the very best of what Misplaced Pages is about. I could be wrong and could be facing all kinds of vitriol and AfDs, etc. based on my frank, but polite, opinion. And if the message to me is "fuck off and leave Misplaced Pages alone" then I likely will do that very thing. I've done what I can to be of value but have zero desire to either see or receive abuse that goes unpunished.

Truly this is a shame. Drew30319 00:40, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

{{helpme}} I think someone with authority who respects, if such a human exists, should review the material above with him, with an eye toward guiding him toward civility. He's apparantly a personage who's made great wikicontributions, but his abusiveness is turning off people who, by no stretch of the imagination, should be called "a whining twat" or a "sad lifeless bastard" or be told to "fuck off". David in DC 18:32, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

If you believe another user is in violation of policy then take it here WP:AN. There is no excuse for personal attacks or rudeness on Misplaced Pages, It only creates strife and prevents us from accomplishing our goals. Wikidudeman 18:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

For God's sake... dispute resolution exists for a reason. If you all have problems with , open a request for comments. Going on and on in scattered forums and gripe fests all over the Wiki isn't going to achieve what you want it to achieve. MastCell 19:29, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I ask for help, I follow the advice I get, I'm castigated for following the advice. David in DC 19:41, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

And then a different fellow purports to block me (check out the history of this page for details) David in DC 19:53, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I didn't purport to blocking you, I did block you. Please take this matter to RfC or drop it completely, continuing in this vain is not an option. Nick 20:02, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you mean "vein"? David in DC 20:26, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

As for Mast's suggestion that my actions won't "achieve what you want to..." I've concluded no actions will. is unbelievably incivil and the focus of fury is on those like me who want someone in authority to call him on it. But those in authority, valuing his content contributions, have no interest in, or ability to, help him understand what's incivil about his routine use of phrases like whining twat, fuck off, pile of shit and the like.

Shameful. David in DC 20:36, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

You have just as much authority as anyone else who edits here. That's how Misplaced Pages works. Someone who is an administrator or a bureaucrat is simply someone who has more editing and oversight capabilities, that's it. You need to take charge yourself and go through the dispute resolution. Please see WP:DR for further information. Read into it and learn how to solve this issue yourself. First attempt to discuss the situation with 3rd parties. You've tried that. Secondly, Attempt a mediation or comment from neutral people. Thirdly, Put this on the Admin notice board if you truly believe he is violating Misplaced Pages policy. Fourthly, if all else fails, Go through a formal mediation. If THAT fails then an arbitration. If you're not willing to go through all of that to resolve the dispute then forget about and ignore the individual and move on. Wikidudeman 22:24, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Gee, willikers, aren't you the same Wikidudeman whose last advice to me was: "If you believe another user is in violation of policy then take it here WP:AN. There is no excuse for personal attacks or rudeness on Misplaced Pages, It only creates strife and prevents us from accomplishing our goals. Wikidudeman 18:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)"

I followed that advice. It bought me a rebuke from our overeager friend Nick up there. Now you've got a significantly different bit of counsel. I'm not jumping through your suggested hoop so fast this time. Last time I got sandbagged. David in DC 00:34, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I apologize for that. I thought an admin notice board comment would get comments from other administrators on the matter but I guess that didn't work out. Your best bet is to go through formal dispute resolution IMO, If you're that concerned with it. That's what Nick advised. Wikidudeman 12:09, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Having also read your fine recapitulation of the situation on Nick's talk page, I accept your apology, without reservation.

I'm not going to start a mediation about a respected admin's undisguised (and virtually uncontested) incivility. It's clearly not worth the bother. His peers deem his potty mouth less important than his contributions. And they may be right.

I'll follow the easier, and saner, course of just ignoring it. David in DC 15:11, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Best of luck. Wikidudeman 15:25, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm as confused as you. You've followed what appears to be the "proper" steps but have been attacked for following those steps. You "talked to other party involved," you've "discussed with third parties," you've "requested help," you've "reported on the Administrator's noticeboard" and still no assistance. The good thing is that hopefully you've realized that there are a great deal of people that share your opinion of the uncivil nature of the editor under discussion. The sad thing is that you now realize that User:Moreschi who told you "Hasn't he fucked off and left alone yet?" and User:Nick who told you that you should be "shutting the hell up" don't follow the meta:Dick standard.

I would suggest that you follow the latest suggestion by User talk:Wikidudeman who I believe is well-intentioned and his advice has so far been (I believe) accurate. Unfortunately it appears that you're dealing with a group that - in my estimation - is every bit as clique-ish as a high school chess team. So give WP:RFC a shot. But please let me know when you do. As I've no axe to grind with the editor-that-must-not-be-named but am instead a third party that has observed his incivility I will gladly share my thoughts and observations there. Best of luck to you. Hopefully most editors will recognize the value of reducing the level of incivility on here. It's absolutely unacceptable behavior that they would never attempt in "real life." Drew30319 15:30, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry - it looks like the above discussions occurred while I was in the middle of writing. Best of luck in your decision! (and don't think that your opinion is not appreciated) Drew30319 15:32, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

No prob. Given the meglomaniacal Shylock reference that's up today on the page-that-must-not-be-named, I'm more confident than ever that disengagement is the best course. My grandmother used to say "Never argue with a crazy person, people might not be able to tell the difference." She'd say it in Yiddish and then translate for my benefit. Somehow, it sounded even wiser in Yiddish, even tho I don't speak the language. David in DC 15:57, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

What more can one say about this?

Hath not a Sysop hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions . . . ? If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge? with apologies to William Shakespeare David in DC 02:29, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Calls for assasination

Some say the Orthodox rabbis who referred to Yitzchak Rabin as a "rodef" gave sanction to his murder. Certainly his murderer does.

Some say the King's cry "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?" was sanction enough to authorize the assassination of Thomas a Becket.

Does anyone think there's an article worth writing on this topic? I couldn't write it. I find the utterers of such incitement loathesome. Even if they are tolerably educated. So my POV would interfere.David in DC 00:12, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Dish

Does anyone think there's enough fodder for an article on the origin and etymology of the phrase "(S)he can dish it out, but (s)he sure can't take it?" David in DC 00:16, 17 July 2007 (UTC)