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User talk:Vintagekits

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Indef block

I have extended you block for an indefinate period due to threats of physical violence, gross personal and sectarian attacks and indicating you will engage in further meatpuppetry. I will ask for a review of this myself, therefore you do not need to. I will leave this page for you to plead your case, should you have a change of opinion, but be aware that if you continue to use this page as a platform for soapboxing or personal attacks, I will protect it. Rockpocket 01:44, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Due to continued abuse from Vintagekits, I've protected this page. This will have the effect of limiting Vintagekits's ability to make a case here. Rklawton 03:47, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Unprotected

At Vintagekits request, I have unprotected the talk page (the only page he can edit while blocked). Please do not come here to gloat or attempt to wind up VK any further. SirFozzie 18:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Fozzie.--Vintagekits 18:23, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Foz, I've been away chillin out. I'm gonna stay off for a month and then request that I am aloud back but not to edit on republican articles for a further six months. How does that sound?--Vintagekits 18:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I would support that request.
But only if the list of "republican articles" is published in your (SirFozzie's) talk space first, publicised in appropriate article discussion areas (ie most of the embargoed articles) and then a period of 7 days allowed for the community to add to the "six month embargoed" list.
I would also suggest, as a preventative measure, an escalating series of edit blocks beginning at 1 hour and only rising in 1 hour increments to try and correct breaches of policy (obviously including edit warring and personal attacks). VK's editing skills have improved with leaps and bounds and it would be a notable educational achievement to welcome him back as a conscientious editor.
The penultimate, and obviously controversial, proposal I would make is a ban on "Admin shopping" by VK. You, SirFozzie have a certain amount of respect in the community which is not shared by infallible admins like Tyrenious and Alison
The final, and obvious, proposal I would make is a 3 month ban on my editing any article I have not edited previously and before his return that he has edited after his return so as not to run the risk of antagonising him...Gaimhreadhan talk • 19:08, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
VK, I think that sounds reasonable, and I'd support that. Foz is away ill at the moment, but I'll see that he gets the message - "Infallible" Alison ☺ 19:46, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Alison, please would you clarify whether it is an unconditional return that you support or one with the conditions I have described?...Gaimhreadhan talk • 19:57, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Some of the conditions I see as reasonable, some I do not. Overall, a conditional return would be okay. - Alison ☺ 20:07, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I think it would be helpful if you would clarify exactly which of my proposed conditions are unacceptable. Sorry to press you, Alison, but I think it might be helpful to Vintagekits if he knew exactly what behaviour was expected...Gaimhreadhan talk • 20:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
That's neither mine nor your decision to make. All I can do is state that I'm okay with a conditional unblock. Appropriate behavior for all of us is already well established by WP:NPOV, WP:CIVIL, WP:AGF, etc, etc. As I'm not directly involved in VK's issues, I'll defer to SirFozzie on what the best approach is. - Alison ☺ 20:46, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I understand the blocking admin is usually involved in such decisions? I've notified him. Bastun 22:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I would agree with Alison, we have policies and I would not support policies being made ad hoc, by anyone.--Domer48 22:45, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I'd support resetting the block to something like 2 weeks (in all). VK did ban me from this page so I hope he wont object to me commenting here but he is unquestionably a useful editor and if people have issues with his behaviour we have disputre resolution processes and an arbcom; I am not comfortable with this user being indefinitely blocked without coming up in front of the arbcom first, and that is definitely following our policies and guidelines, SqueakBox 22:49, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Actually, it is not unusual for a user to be indef blocked without coming in front of Arbcom. Vk is not banned, his block should only stand as long as his contributions are likely to be disruptive to the smooth and proper functioning of the project, as they clearly were when I issued the block. I indicated I would let others decide on whether Vk's block should remain. I stand by that and will not object to his unblocking should any admin choose to do so for whatever reason. For what its worth, my personal opinion is that Vk's problems on Misplaced Pages stem from his editing of articles and talk pages related to Irish Republicanism. Should he steer clear of these either by choice or by an enforced ban, I don't see any good reason to enforce a block. Should he continue to edit these article, though, then I think he will continue to be a disruptive influence and see little point unblocking at this time. I should also note, though, that any repeat of the behaviour the led to the current block would, from me at least, lead to it being immediately re-instated. Rockpocket 02:55, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Would that be a slective block then, i.e. not editing Republican articles? Is that an existing policy option, as I have already indicated I'm opposed to any ad hoc policys? --Domer48 08:33, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
It wouldn't be a block. It would be a ban on certain articles. There is plenty of precedent for this, usually through ArbCom, which is a last resort, and if things can be settled before that stage, then it is best to do so. The ideal is an agreement between the editor whose conduct is at question and other relevant editors/admins to resolve any problem. Tyrenius 10:06, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
I'd have no problem with Vk coming back, under the terms he has proposed himself above. Note, though, that Vk's "problem areas" are not necessarily limited to the "Irish Republican" sphere of influence but could be extended to include "anti-British". See here for a past example. Bastun 08:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
I note yer concerns, hence the reason that I have offered to not edit republican articles (and to be more specific so there there can be no debate about it that includes all articles with WP:IR which I think covers all republican and republican linked articles) and then after I have earned the trust of Fozzie again I will request the "full membership" is reinstated.--Vintagekits 10:36, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Agree with lift. I thought that some editors were talking about a fresh start. I don't believe that making threats against Vk at this stage is making a fresh start. However I hope something is done about the continuous trolling on the relevant pages, this is the real problem, and these are the editors that sneak in and out and rarely ever get blocked. GH 10:15, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Huh? Noone is making threats, against Vk or anyone else for that matter. Bastun 12:52, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
I think Vintagekits offer to refrain from editing these articles is a fair offer and he should be allowed to show good faith by having his block lifted.--padraig 10:53, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
...and I don't. Just as you have your opinion I have mine. --Counter-revolutionary 10:57, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes you give your opinion and I give mine, so why the need for your comment above.--padraig 11:25, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

An indefinite block remains in place until such time as an admin is prepared to lift it. Alison and Rockpocket have already stated they consider it can be lifted on a conditional basis. Tyrenius 11:12, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Take it the arbcom and let them sort it out as a neutral party. Badgerpatrol 11:30, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I think VK offer is reasonable and clear. That it is self imposed, I would have no problem. --Domer48 13:30, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Suggested conditions

How about this (I'd ideally want admins to comment, but any constructive criticism would be fair).

The unblock would be lifted under the following conditions

1) VK observe a MININUM 6 month topic-ban on all republican and republican-linked articles. Once six months are up, we can look at VK's editing , and response to provocations and the like, and look at lifting this topic-ban. 2) VK agree (as he did before) to a 1 RR on all topics. 3) Depending on how my illness goes, I may or may not be able to fully mentor VK.. hopefully in a few weeks when I can get back to editing fully, I can resume my duties. Right now, my WP editing is limited to 1/2 times a day. If I can't I will try to get another, neutral admin to help mentor VK.

Fair enough? SirFozzie 13:57, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

aye.--Vintagekits 13:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

He should not be allowed to edit on any articles relating to Northern Ireland, the United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland, British peerages etc. He seems to like boxing and sport articles and this would be a good area for him to concentrate on for the time being. He should be blocked again if he makes any pro-terrrorist or anti-British comments in talk pages or elsewhere. Astrotrain 14:39, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Jamie Moore

Hi there, long time no speak!. I have made a slight alteration to the Jamie Moore boxer page and added a couple of references. Hope they sit well with you. Regards GRB1972