Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Tdxiang (talk | contribs) at 12:15, 25 June 2005. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Previous discussions have been archived.

Super Eurobeat

Yeah, I know the AVEX compliation is important to Eurobeat genre. However, the cuent version is nothing but a list and has little content to preserve. As I am not familiar with the history of SEB, I elect for a page to delete but keep links (this means that when the page is re-created it will not be moved to speedy delete). In any case, if you can write up something better, please do. SYSS Mouse 14:17, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Bars (pubs, taverns) of inclusion

Hello Kappa. In Misplaced Pages:Votes for deletion/Hog's Back Brewery, you write: there should be a low bar of inclusion for beer, as for almost everything else. This is interesting, as the "almost" implies that even you are inclined to squelch something or other. I wonder what this is. Could it perhaps be vanity?

Whether or not it's vanity, you might be interested in what I wrote in Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy)#Vanity about my dissatisfaction with the so-called "semi-policy" (?!) page Misplaced Pages:Vanity page. I've written more about this in Misplaced Pages talk:Vanity page and I've made some very minor changes to Misplaced Pages:Vanity page while attempting not to change the gist (so far as I understand it) of what it says -- despite my own disagreement. Since you tend to vote "keep" a lot more often than I do, your viewpoint is likely to be different from mine; thus your involvement in a rewrite would I think be very healthy. If you have comments, do plonk them on Misplaced Pages talk:Vanity page rather than my own page. Thanks. -- Hoary 03:39, 2005 Apr 20 (UTC)

Vandalism alert

Hi Kappa. You made an entry in Misplaced Pages:Vandalism in progress#Current alerts, but you didn't say which user you were reporting. You might want to fix your entry. Paul August ☎ 21:11, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

Crescent school

Hi there! I noticed your comment about the Crescent School on VfD, "So how about BEEFSTEW of 5 gets an article, substubs are deleted, less than 5 gets merged if it isn't growing? Kappa 05:30, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)"

I think this is a very good idea, and it seems the only way to stop the repetitive school debates on VfD is by setting up some compromise (like we have for WP:MUSIC; BEEFSTEW sounds like a good starting point). Do you think we should put up a centralized discussion on this? Yours, Radiant_* 07:18, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

• I think some progress is being made in the Vfds, I'm trying to figure out what kind of deal people will buy. Kappa 11:12, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • There does seem to be progress, and I think we should just make a compromise somewhere because the repetitive discussion seems to be annoying people... I've already been approached by some people to start a centralized discussion on the matter, but I'm afraid that if I do that people will mistake my intent. Radiant_* 09:30, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
    • Do you think there can be consensus around using BEEFSTEW to measure article quality, not just school "notability"? I believe that a large majority of the community would be prepared to accept that. I don't want a WP which is unable to examine typical schools with their gang problems, special projects, important roles in the community etc. Kappa 11:36, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
      • I think it's possible to form a consensus - if the two of us can reach agreement on this, I think I would be able to convince the delete-voters to agree, and I trust you'd be able to do similar with the keep-voters.
      • As a corollary, I think it should be acceptable to merge school stubs onto lists, or articles on the city/town/whatever - a merged article can always be broken out later if and when more information is added. I believe many delete-voters simply object to stubs that they believe to be unlikely to be expanded any time soon.
      • Regarding BEEFSTEW, I think it's a good start, and most criteria are solid. However, I have some objection regarding item I (Would an alumnus of the school be pleased at how knowledgeable the article was?) as it's subjective and unverifiable. Also, I don't like the first three criteria (more than two sentences, at least one paragraph, more than 2000 bytes) because they're only relevant to the length of the article, not its content. The reason I'm saying this is that there is some precedent for people adding trivial information to school article (e.g. "the spoken language is English" for a school in England, or "the library contains many books ordered by topic") in order to increase its length. Of course I'd like your opinion on this.
      • Yours, Radiant_* 07:48, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

I propose something like this: An article on a non-exceptional school gets its own page when it contains a substantial amount of informative, non-generic, verifiable information. A substantial amount would be about a screenful. Generic information is things like BEEFSTEW (D) unless there is something interesting to say about them, such as a remarkable improvement in results. Non-generic information is like the part of BEEFSTEW (H) which says "describe some distinct things about it that distinguish it from other schools". It would include the things I want from school articles like interesting points of its history, its role in the local area, special education/discipline approaches and so on.

• Other school pages get merged somewhere, but we find a way to encourage people to expand them with "non-generic" info. Some kind of template that says "this school section is a stub, you can help WP by expanding it. The schools project has some guidelines." That way they can grow, more or less organically, and also help bring new people into WP.
• This means it won't be possible to give all schools an article because there just isn't enough info available. I think Clonkeen College would be an example of something which would have to stay merged. The schools people won't be too happy but I think they'll accept it in return for a friendlier approach to new articles and schools in general. Kappa 23:35, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • I think this sounds very good. How about making a draft (that doesn't refer to BEEFSTEW, but copy/pastes the relevant parts) and asking some people for comments? See also User talk:Korath who has written down his thoughts, which do seem to correspond with yours. We should definitely get Dpbsmith's opinion, since he wrote BEEFSTEW.
  • How do you feel about 'current' information? Listing a principal would be useful since most principals stay on for a long time; but how about information that would not be valid a year from now?
  • A template for school sections sounds good, and then people can check 'what links here' (or an embedded category) when looking for school articles to expand. WikiProject:Schools is a good central place for that.
  • Considering the fact that there's only a few 'extremists' on each side, it seems viable to get consensus on this - stressing the point that merging is a form of keeping. After all, it's a worthy compromise - and compromise is certainly preferable to a daily shouting match on VfD. Radiant_* 08:58, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

re: Clover Park High School

Yes, we have many subpages on Misplaced Pages on specific topics. (For example, the collected wikipages on chess could fill a small book!) Why not subpages for towns? It's just a matter of consistent thinking. Schools are useful information in a specific, reasonable context.

And, even if someone doesn't think the school article is "notable" enough, it would be wise to keep the article anyway. (1) Keeping the article fosters good will: Local readers who see the page will think "Wow, wikipedia cares about MY town!" (2) Deleting the article creates ill will: It says to all the editors who put their time and hard work into the page: "Sorry, your work is valueless; it is better to destroy it." That really angers people, and rightfully so. So keeping the page is good for the Wikimedia project.

If there is ever sufficient popular support on Misplaced Pages to delete school and related pages due to them being "too geographical--too local in scope", then what will need to be done is the creation of a "Wikitowns" or "Wikilocal" project, and all the pages about schools and such will have to be moved there. The information will survive, just in a different project space. This was done with word definitions (Wiktionary), so it could easily happen in this case. A Wikilocal project is probably what will happen in the long run. I think it would even be a better situation, as you wouldn't have to deal with idiotic Vfd votes, and there would be no question of the page's value and "notability". You'd be able to spend your time actually working on adding contributions instead of defending them against the notability crusaders. (But keep in mind that the notability crusaders really do have Misplaced Pages's best interests at heart, even if they don't "get it".)

- Pioneer-12 01:16, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Clonkeen College

Kappa, would you please take another look at Clonkeen College and reconsider your vote? You have demonstrated excellent research abilities when it comes to schools, perhaps you can lend me a hand? It seems to have a good degree of notability above and beyond that of the typical notable secondary school. Cheers --GRider\ 19:22, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Hi GRrider, I'll change my vote because I promised I would. I did actually look for material to expand that article but I didn't find very much. Please look above to my discussion with Radiant on an attempted compromise on the schools issue (which would result in this particular article being merged as it stands). I know this kind of thing is not ideal from the "organic growth" standpoint but I'm hoping you can accept it in return for a healthier attitude towards school coverage in general. Kappa 23:41, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Radio mast articles

I am contacting you because you have contributed to the VfD discussion on radio mast articles. I just wanted to let you know that a proposal has been put forth at Misplaced Pages:Deletion policy/Masts to address these articles en masse. Your comments are welcome. --TenOfAllTrades (talk/contrib) 04:32, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

:)

FYI, I'll be away for a couple of days. If you want my help on persuading certain people, please wait a bit. I'll drop you a line when I'm back. Yours, Radiant_* 21:47, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

Email

Please email me. — Xiong熊talk* 13:20, 2005 May 1 (UTC)

Thanks, and a question

Thanks for your kind words, and for posting the standard welcome on my talk page.

Please have a look at my user page and tell me on my talk page if what I've posted there is appropriate. I'm not certain, and would rather go back and delete it rather than whack a hornet's nest with a stick.

Thanks again. --Unfocused 14:24, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Notable high schools

This Newsweek article on The 100 Best High Schools in America is certainly food for thought in the frequent debates over the notability of high schools... certainly every one on that list should have an article! -- BDAbramson 01:02, 2005 May 9 (UTC)

• thanks for the link, but doing schools from best -> worst is not the best order in my opinion. Kappa 15:45, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
• Hi there! I'm back from break, so I'd be happy to continue on the schools compromise, and getting it away from the daily VfD hassle. Radiant_* 10:43, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
  • Actually things seem a bit quieter on Vfd, and people are voting by article quality a lot more, I can live with that. I'm thinking it might be possible to introduce a {{cleanup-school}} tag to replace cleanup-importance people were using. Kappa 15:45, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
    • It is quieter now, but there still is no consensus. I believe we should take advantage of the calm rational mood at present to create a consensus, because it is quite possible that in the future there will be more school nominations and a repetition of the angry shouting. If, by then, we have a guideline to fall back on, we can prevent it. Yours, Radiant_* 15:48, May 11, 2005 (UTC)
• I added the Newsweek list to my userpage here - I agree that best-to-worst is not the best order, but I feel this list offers additional ammunition for keeping all schools listed on it! -- BDAbramson act 01:21, 2005 May 16 (UTC)

Congratulations Dawg, you have just received the WHITE DAWG Gangsta Walk Award for your brave defense of all things crunk & thug. -BrowardDawgg 18:45, 26 May 2005 (UTC)