This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Mav (talk | contribs) at 10:36, 11 August 2003 (oic). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 10:36, 11 August 2003 by Mav (talk | contribs) (oic)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)Are you sure about the original name "Danapirstadir"? I searched for it on Google and came up with nothing.
According to the Ukrainian government, the official spelling of the city in English is "Kyiv". So, I propose moving the page to "Kyiv", and putting a redirect at "Kiev", the opposite of how it is now. "Kiev" is a romanisation of the name of the city in Russian, and as Ukrainian is the sole official language of Ukraine, keeping it like this is somewhat offensive. See how the Bombay - Mumbai issue was resolved. - Kricxjo
- Okay, I've moved the page, as I proposed some months ago. There's a redirect. This makes the entry conform to other cities whose names changed after independence. Kricxjo 10:56, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- Well if I had seen your proposal I would have strenuously objected. There are 10 times the number of Google hits for the Kiev spelling as there are are for Kyiv and the US embassy in Kiev has its website at http://kiev.usembassy.gov/ . I'm moving the page back to the correct English spelling (which is a matter of usage, not decree). Furthermore I just did a spell check on this and "Kyiv" came up as incorrect which Kiev did not. --mav 21:26, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- It doesn't matter how many web hits there are. Look at Mumbai. That is the official name of the city, even though many people around the world still say "Bombay". Wikipedians decided to put the page at Mumbai and include a redirect at Bombay. The fairest solution is to put the page at the official name (according to the government of the country in which the city is located). As I said before, "Kiev" is from Russian, which is offensive to many Ukrainians because Russian is not an official language of Ukraine. I shall be moving this page back, so that it conforms with the Bombay - Mumbai decision, since the Misplaced Pages is better when it is coherent. It's not as if we lose anything, since Kiev will still be a redirect. Kricxjo 09:23, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- I should add that occasionally the Misplaced Pages does decree spelling, instead of letting usage decide. For this reason the spelling "Rumanian" was taken out of the article Romania, since it was perceived as archaic, though many people still use it. Because all documents issued by the Ukrainian government in English contain the spelling "Kyiv", guidebooks to Ukraine now use "Kyiv", scholarly works on the region in antiquity now tend to say "Kyiv Rus", it is entirely fair to believe "Kiev" unsatisfactory. And yeah, the US Embassy uses it, but they are criticized heavily for it (I lived in the city for a couple of years) and perceived as insensitive to the locals post-independence, as few members of the embassy staff speak Ukrainian, and will speak with visitors only in English or Russian. Kricxjo 09:32, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- OK. I didn't read the "offensive" part. "Kyiv" is therefore in conformance with Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (common names) due to that. But it was outrageous to remove every single reference to the spelling "Kiev" as was done with your first move. Presented with that version of the article an English speaker may not have known this page was about the Kiev they were taught about in school. --mav
- He's got a point. If we have the articles on Bombay & Calcutta at Mumbai & Kolkata, we should have the one on Kiev at Kyiv. - Efghij 09:29, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Well I don't think those should be there either. I've never heard of Mumbai & Kolkata. -- Tarquin 10:32, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)