Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by MartinHarper (talk | contribs) at 13:24, 25 August 2003 (more from Vicki's page). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

A name has been changed at the request of the user in question.

Hello, H.J.. Please, comment on the brand new version! I am grateful already. Space Cadet

No problem on the redirects -- I should have seen it coming when I made a stub article for Karl Scheele that the modern spelling might at least be Carl Scheele (let alone his middle name). That's the problem with using really old dictionaries and encyclopedias for sources -- you have to be careful to modernize the names of people and sometimes things. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. --maveric149

Could you please slow down and make sure the English is right. There is (just for example) no such word in English as "Primas". Presumably you know what you mean in German--I don't, which means you need to be the one to get the word right, rather than leaving everyone guessing. Vicki Rosenzweig

Vicki,

Primas is in Webster dictionary under : primate, M.E. primat,LL. primas (latin primus- first). A person with primacy, an archbishop or the highest ranking bishop in the province.

I will add, highest ranking bishop or archbishop. user:H.J.

For what it is worth, I have never heard or read "Primas" used in the US -- people instead use "Primate" as the title, although very carefully given its other meaning. Slrubenstein

Archbishop is a specific title in the Catholic church; was he an archbishop? A cardinal? Just a bishop in an area with no archbishops? Vicki Rosenzweig

Actually, this form is discussed in English plural as a lost singular replaced by another singular back-formed from the plural. But, it is not correct English any more than termes for termite. Ortolan88

Vicki, Slrubenstein, Ortolan88, I changed it to Primate and added archbishop and places. user:H.J.

you could also just say "head of the church in Poland" or "highest ranking church officer in Poland" -- that says it all, and is equally correct. JHK

H.J.: Borders shift over time. This is not an excuse to insert statements in every article about Poland to the effect that the borders were different before 1945. That information is already in the article on the history of Poland, which is where it belongs. It doesn't belong in a list of Polish cities, any more than a list of German cities should begin with a note that there was no Germany as such before the 19th century. Vicki Rosenzweig

1570 map of Germany with double-headed German imperial eagle and description (click on text) ]

OK, something odd is going on here. On Nov 15, 2002 66.47.62.78 edited this page, Adam Johann von Krusenstern and at about the same time created a user page called user:66.47.62.78 (now deleted). But look at the contribs link here. There are no contribs listed even though it is set to look for 30 day old edits. There is also a link to the now deleted user page under "User contributions" (there should not be any link for IPs - just plain text). The software is confused and needs to be fixed before a vandal finds out this loop-hole. --mav

I've been meaning to fix that, now's my chance, hmm? I deleted the account in the meantime, so the contribs link now works. User names in the form of IP addresses will not be legal in future. --Brion 01:01 Nov 20, 2002 (UTC)

Aha -- usernames that look like IP addresses have been banned since late July, but the check fails if you put some whitespace around it when creating the account. Fixed. (Note that the existence of a page in user space means nothing; the account must be created through login to make a difference to the contribs page.) --Brion 01:19 Nov 20, 2002 (UTC)

Thanks Brian! --mav

Hello H.J., welcome back. :-) Your edits so far seem to be in the spirit of NPOV. Do be careful about place names though -- we needn't go through that again. --mav--

Hi Mav, Thanks! I have been and will continue to occasionally correct a few things here and there, but that's it. I have no intention to get sucked into this too much. user:H.J.

Hi H.J., I almost quit Misplaced Pages for good. It is not really the same without you around. I was making major changes to articles relating to Prussia and nobody even cared! Sometimes I even tried to bluff and place some made up stuff into articles, just to provoke discussion, or any reaction for that matter, still - no response or interest. You say, you "have no intention to get sucked into this too much". Then how about just a little bit - for old times' sake? Welcome back!
SC

Hi SC/Mruk, thanks for your message. It is rather too frustrating to add info to articles over and over again , just to find out, someone has taken it out once more or what is even worse, twisted and turned it into something unrecocnicable. Therefore I will stick to the occasional correction and not add anything new. Why waist the time? )

I agree 100%. Have you checked out the nice maps that I came across lately? I uploaded them on the "Ducal Prussia" and "Royal Prussia" articles. After I already uploaded them I noticed a few incorrect items.

1. The border between Poland and Lithuania should be a dotted line.
2. The Podlasie region (with the city of Tykocin) should belong to Lithuania.
3. Lebork and Bytow should belong to Poland.

See if you can find more and please let me know.
And finally - Mruk don' work here no mo'!
But I have some gossip though! He's a little pregnant (3 months) and he is strongly considering the name Jadwiga! You must have a lot of influence on the poor guy! SC

Space Cadet (AKA Mruk, but not on wiki ?) your cryptic message leaves me a little perplext. Are you spaced out again?? user:H.J.

My pleasure, H.J.. Despite our differences, nice to see you back. Danny

Danny, you are a real Mensch and I appreciate your message. I am not sure about being back though. Matter of fact is , that I notice that at wikipedia you are not only putting up with newcomer 'Happy H.', but with the pesky 'everything has always been Polish' boys as well. This does not entice me. User:H.J.

H.J., thank you for the kind words on my user page. The pressure was indeed getting to me, for a while, but after reading a sermon entitled "Love Problem People" I changed my mind. After all, it may really be that I am the "problem member" rather than those I think are "problem members". --Ed Poor

To HJ: Misplaced Pages is not a dictionary. Not even a biographical dictionary. If you're going to create entries for obscure members of German royal families, please include enough that the reader will know why it matters. Not just a woman's parents, husband, and children: anyone looking it up will probably already know most of that. What did she do? If it was a dynastic marriage, how did it affect alliances? Vicki Rosenzweig

Hi Vicki, I would like to answer more in detail, but you are not asking about anyone specific. Are you referring to the lists I started on the German kings and emperors, or the Hohenzollern or the Saxon dukes, kings, emperors or the Habsburg or the Wettin or Wittelsbach or the Jagiello's or the Vasa's ? Or perhaps all of them ? You may know all these dynasties and all their family members, but the majority of the readers of wikipedia don't or did not until they were listed here.Those "obscure members",women and children, who are mostly "overlooked" or "discarded as irrelevant" by the historians interested in battles, were in fact a most vital part of the whole story. Unless you specifically mention those obscure first name people, such as Adelaide, Theophanu, Oda, Rixa (Richeza), Gisela, Judith, Gunhilda, Christina, etc etc you are not getting a comprehensive history. It were not only the father's of the land (see reference George Washington but just as important the mother's of the land that governed European countries for many centuries.That is why I have been inputting all these lists and people. I start with the basic genealogy and add to it as well as other wikipedians who have been busily adding to these lists also.I have been spending way too much time , even though I would like to put all the details in, as you would like to see it done. I would like that too.Unfortunately a large part of my time has been spent having to argue. Like I said, I cannot spent that much time. user:H.J.

It's not a question of fathers vs. mothers of the land. It's that we read these pages, and still know almost nothing. Battles aren't the whole story, agreed, but neither is genealogy. Don't just mention Theophanu or Christina--tell us their stories. Better ten interesting, informative articles than a hundred names with no context or story. Vicki Rosenzweig

To Space Cadet: You have succeeded in making me far more sympathetic with user:H.J. than anything she has written has yet managed. I was really hoping Godwin's Law didn't apply to wikipedia. Vicki Rosenzweig

I'm actually, also very sympathetic with user:H.J., but that remark about communism was very offensive and without any reason. Godwin's Law does not cover remarks about communism or Stalinism, only because the western world did not have enough experience with both phenomena. The spirit of the law, however, applies to this situation perfectly and being as intelligent, as I think you are, you know it very well. All I did, was share my knowledge about the area and time, which Ms. Jonat likes to be so judgemental about. In response, instead of intelectual polemic, that I was expecting, I was treated with some immature name calling and ridiculing. If this made you even MORE sympathetic with her, than you were before, well... that's nice. Also makes me very sympathetic with you. Space Cadet.

Vicki, you bring a ray of sunshine to an often gloomy world. Thanks ! user:H.J.

Yes, I think we're all better people, now! Space Cadet.

post-departure talk

In light of H.J. recent request that a google search for her name nor come back with flames, I propose, as a start:

1. ban talk to User talk:H.J./ban
2. refactor said page

Thoughts? Martin 13:11 28 May 2003 (UTC)

Ahh - it appears all the ban talk is on the mailing lists, so it's unrefactorable. Ahh well. Martin 17:12 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Note: I moved this page here on H.J.'s request because she does not want to be listed on Misplaced Pages under her real name Martin 18:07 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)

It's all great, but GOOGLE still spits out H.J.'s User Page and her User talk page, as first two finds. Try it! It just says: Redirected from Talk:H. Jonat. So something more sophisticated must be done, since we want to help H.J.
Space Cadet 22:09 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)

google will decache in time. Martin