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December 20

  • Verisimilitude. Dictionary definition. Maybe move to Wiktionary? -- Vardion 07:30, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Wiktionary. Not the sort of word one could write an article about. Tualha 14:28, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Verisimilitude was previously linked to from The Alamo and Timeline of fictional events. It is explained in the Theater terms article. Redirect it there? Angela. 02:03, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • If the links in The Alamo and similar are pointed to the entry in theater terms, it might be okay, but the word "verisimilitude" can be used outside drama, and so I'd be hesitant create a redirect to theater terms for the word itself. But it does seem that "verisimilitude" is used mostly in drama (or at least, in drama and literature), so it might be okay. -- Vardion 06:10, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete. This is not really worthy of being an article. Don't redirect it to Theater terms unless that is the only common context in which this is used. - Mark 06:47, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

December 21

  • Accordion pleat. I can't see this ever being an article. Angela. 11:20, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • No vote. No opposition to delete nor keep. Wiktionary maybe? if it is a general term it can be moved there. Optim 12:06, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • Delete provided transferred to wiktionary, but only iff other users agree with the wiktionary addition, otherwise keep for now. Optim
    • Keep for now. Hard to say whether the topic deserves an article. I put it on cleanup, let's see if someone can fill it out. Tualha 17:23, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • move to wiktionary and Delete. Davodd 07:24, Dec 27, 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete. This is as self-explanatory as original studio album above. It is a pleat that is like an accordion. It's not worthy of an article unless it holds more significance than is in the article now. - Mark 06:58, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • move to wiktionary and delete. --Jiang
  • History of computers. It is currently a redirect to History of computing hardware. I couldn't move the 2nd article to the 1st, so I removed the redirect text in the 1st article, but I still couldn't do the move. "History of computing hardware" is a cumbersome attempt by a mathematician to distinguish the history of computers from the History of computing (the article's former title), which encompasses not only computers but pen and paper as well. His point is valid, but the new title he chose for the article is unnecessarily awkward. --Sewing 17:14, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • I am thinking whether History of computation is a better title than History of computing. btw There is a Timeline of computing, too. Optim 17:47, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • I agree History of computing is not ideal. But isn't History of computation also awkward? Anyhow, it goes back to Michael Hardy's argument that "computing" (and "computation") is not just about computers but about mathematical techniques that precede computers. I think History of computers is the best option: it is simple and unambiguous. --Sewing 18:08, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • History of computation still seems nice and more correct to me. Optim 19:01, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • I think the term computation is more often (academically) used for the theoretical side of things (algorithms, complexity,etc.), computers seems better for the practical side to me. --Imran 22:17, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
        • That's right. We can have a Computation article for the academic theoretical history and a Computers article for practical-business computing. how do u think? Optim 00:49, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Keep, who wouldn't be interested in the history of computers? Lirath Q. Pynnor
    • Move to History of computers. Mathematics is as much a part of the history of computers as it is the history of their hardware. - Mark 06:58, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)



December 24

  • Lipan Apache: 2 or 3 speakers, (1981 R.W. Young). Whether or not this article deserves to be kept, it certainly doesn't deserve to be kept under this title. RickK 03:55, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Added VfD tag. (Title suggests this may also be copyvio.) Anjouli 04:24, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Not sure how this poorly written statement could be copyrighted; but the title is wrong. Move to Lipan Apache to discuss its merits there. Is it a "real" language? - Marshman 04:57, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • Rectitude. Move to Wiktionary. RickK 04:14, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Agree. Anjouli 04:19, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • (Added VfD tag to article)
  • Elon Peace Plan. The article is nothing more than an advertisement for a program of ethnic cleansing by someone at the far right of Israeli politics. It used to be a modest and reasonably nonpartisan report on this (quite unimportant) "plan", but a fanatic has taken it over and deleted everything that is not straight out of the plan's propaganda blurb. I tried to prevent this, to no avail. We should not allow Misplaced Pages to be used for political activism in such a blatant fashion. --Zero 04:51, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Deletion is not the solution to an edit war. Would some sysop please revert and protect the page while this is sorted out? Tualha 05:08, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Keep. Some NPOV editing would be good. Especially about "Population transfer was used successfully between the Greeks and the Turks in Thrace". It should be changed to something like "according to...". Optim 06:11, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • That's some pretty crazy shit. It's basically implying that the Armenian genocide, Pontian genocide, and related "population transfers" by the Turks were something that should be emulated. Wow. --Delirium 07:19, Dec 24, 2003 (UTC)
    • Keep, put into NPOV and protect once its properly edited. PMC 07:43, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Keep. The page describes a serious attempt to solve the core issues of the conflict. NPOV editting should be performed as needed. Please note the current form of the page, with exerpts from the plan document, was done in response to Zero0000 claim that the page did not reflect the content of the plan. OneVoice 11:50, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • See what I mean? OneVoice is editing this page so as to promote this "plan". He admits it! Can someone please explain to him what Misplaced Pages is about? --Zero 12:01, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Keep, move to pages needing attention. -- Finlay McWalter 12:11, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Keep and fix. --Raul654 04:09, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • Mount Sinai (disambiguation) - Currently a redirect page to Mount Sinai, Egypt. Nothing links to it. To quote someone or other, "Delete in the name of good housekeeping." -Anthropos 17:30, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • I think it can be deleted if it is unused. Question: what is the problem with unused redirect pages? I need to know. Optim 18:22, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Keep. To answer Optim, commonly, redirect pages won't have anything link to them. That's because they're there for the search engine (and potentially for links in from outside pages), not for linking within the wiki. WP has an explicit policy about this; see Misplaced Pages:Redirect#When_should_we_delete_a_redirect?. We should IMO avoid going on a Jihad to delete redirects unless there's real evidence that they're never used. As the saying goes, "It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -mhr 18:47, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • Thank you very much for the immediate reply. I tend to create some redirects for my articles, so I was afraid whether I was doing something wrong! For example for AKS primality test I create redirects such as AKS algorithm, or for Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis I create AMORC or AAORRAC (alternative names). I often try to eliminate links to redirects by changing them to link to the real article, I think this is also good for WP. I hope I do the right thing. Optim 19:10, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • the problem I see is that this page states it's a disambiguation page in the title, when it really is a redirect. There should be a Mount Sinai disambig page, as I can think of more than one, i.e. the mountain on the Sinai penunsulia, a prominent hospital in the U.S. Gentgeen 19:15, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • Now it's a small disambig page with three articles it points to. Gentgeen 06:51, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Useless page -- Redir to Mount Sinai Davodd 07:36, Dec 25, 2003 (UTC)
    • Hmmm...and thus we come full circle! :-}
I don't have any emotional attachment to deleting (or keeping) the page -- I'll quickly bow to the prevailing thinking. However, shouldn't this type of disambiguation page be used for "primary topic" disambiguation, and thus, should it not be linked from the primary topic? See Misplaced Pages:Disambiguation#Types_of_disambiguation. I don't see the point of having this page if we're also going to have disambiguation done at the Mount Sinai page (which is currently a disambiguation page). -Anthropos 08:03, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)


  • Get off my phone Somewhat approximating a dictionary definition, tiny, and not going to get any bigger. moink 18:57, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • No vote. Who can verify this info? Optim 19:07, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • Seems legit but apparently not used outside of Glenn Beck's radio show. TMC1221 19:23, Dec 24, 2003 (UTC)
    • Move to wiktionary and delete. I have worked in broadcasting for years - it is real -- but this is a dictionary definition of regional industry lingo at best - not worthy of an entry here. Davodd 19:24, Dec 24, 2003 (UTC)
    • I agree with Davodd, Wikitionary and delete. PMC 19:49, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete after move to Wiktionary - Marshman 01:21, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Wiktionary. Optim 07:02, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • Ray Gardener was created by an ip with a history of vandalism. --Jiang 22:52, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete Seems to be an advert Archivist 22:58, Dec 24, 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete - Marshman 01:17, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)

December 27

Demon pages discussion moved to Talk:Christian demonology/deletion.

  • Lourdes Leon Ciccone -- this person has done nothing of note -- Tarquin 13:25, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • (non vote) can we come to a consensus on whether or not to keep articles if they're for nothing more than children of famous people? It would save time rather than listing them here individually. Francs2000 17:06, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • Good idea. -- Tarquin 17:54, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • This should at least be a redirect to where the person (who is famous, even if not for actually doing anything) is talked about, so keep. -- Oliver P. 06:26, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • New Age Ancient Near East Chronology -- The body of the article is unrelated to the title and the rest is demeaning in Kenneth Kitchen-ite style thus neither is is NPOV. Any useful relevant info can be moved to relevant pagest such as Sea Peoples and Phoenicians while the rest is already said in a much more objective & detailed manner on the David Rohl page. Zestauferov 08:29, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • Etrécissements This appears to be yet another in a long line of previously posted (and subsequently deleted) painting techniques known only to a couple of obscure painters. Anjouli 19:20, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • I wasn't around for the previous argument, but I say keep. Not much yet but I think it could grow. moink 20:08, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • Only three Google hits. Two from Genovese personal page on Freewebs and one clone of a Wiki article. I don't think the term exists. Anjouli 20:23, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete. This seems to be an idiosyncratic term. Maximus Rex 22:37, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • Jackboot This looks like a dictionary entry. 66.44.102.237 19:50, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Wiktionary, delete. moink 20:02, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • Iraqi Information Minister - not an article, doubt if it'll ever become one. --Jiang 20:29, 26 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Keep. Someone could find info on what the job description is, etc. Questions of whether the minister dealt in "information" or "propaganda" could also be explained. moink 20:37, 26 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • No, that belongs in Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf. --Jiang 20:44, 26 Dec 2003 (UTC)
        • I disagree. A job description and its evolution is different from a particular person who did the job at one point. moink 22:12, 26 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Keep, move to cleanup. Potentially an interesting article, but certainly not one now. If cleanup fails, then deletion is appropriate. -- Finlay McWalter 20:40, 26 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • Actually, listing on vfd and threatening to delete it is more effective than listing it on cleanup. We'll see how this goes after a couple days.
    • Keep. Optim 01:09, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Keep, but convert to a redirect. Anjouli 17:41, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • I'm sure this will start an argument, but I've moved this from Dec 26 to Dec 27 since the article only got a VfD tag on that day. It's not fair to count days when the author may have been unaware the article was listed here. Anjouli 19:57, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • no argument here. moink 20:02, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • You did the right thing. I've been sorely tempted to remove from VfD listings which don't have the boilerplate. -- Finlay McWalter 20:03, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
        • People would complain - but it might wake them up to the importance of VfD tags. Anjouli 20:28, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
The plan is to move all the recipes to the Wikibook cookbook. I already moved the Vegan recipes and pruned the list here considerably. The problem is that we can't move the page histories yet. Still, I vote to move them to Wikibooks and delete here. Danny 21:03, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • And on that topic how do we feel about the majority of the articles on the howto page? Isn't there a wikibook for these kinds of things? Is this encyclopedic? moink 20:42, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • (no vote) might I suggest deferring them until the recipe monster (and the numbers monster) is slain?
    • IMO, some definitely are encyclopedic and some maybe are not (and some I have not yet looked at). I vote to deal with them case by case rather than attempting to decide on them as a class. Rossami 22:04, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Keep unless every recipe in the Misplaced Pages is removed, which I don't think should be done. They're needed for the Cuisine of Albania article. Dori | Talk 00:59, Dec 28, 2003 (UTC)
      • The idea is not to delete the recipes but to move them to Wikibooks. The article on Albanian cuisine can link to there. All the other recipes will also be moved. Danny 01:02, 28 Dec 2003 (UTC)
        • I don't see any of the other recipes being listed for deletion. Unless they're all deleted, I see this as discriminatory and not as policy. I think a vote on all the recipes is needed, and they all need to be listed for deletion together. Dori | Talk 01:09, Dec 28, 2003 (UTC)
          • I pruned the list of recipes a few days ago, taking out all the empty links. If you look at December 23, you will see that I began moving recipes as well. I started at the bottom with the Vegan recipes. Someone else started at the top with the Albanian recipes. Eventually, they will all be moved. We are just doing it a bit at a time. Danny 01:12, 28 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • Good idea. I moved a bunch over to Wikibooks before Xmas from previous listings here (soups, sauces) - Marshman 20:09, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Deletion of number pages like one hundred one -> Talk:List of numbers/Deletion

  • 'Celt'. Merge with Celt? Anjouli 21:40, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Yes, merge and delete. PMC 22:36, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Merge content; making into redirect would be okay. -- Infrogmation 18:44, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Merge and redirect. See the deletion policy. "Merge and delete" is not an option, because using other people's work and then deleting its attribution to them is an infringement of their copyright. Even if it weren't illegal, it would still be bad practice. Merging and redirecting preserves all information, is undoable by any other Wikipedian if necessary, and - best of all - does not require discussion on this page. :) -- Oliver P. 06:26, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • Page histories could easily be merged - delete, move to deleted, and restore. --Jiang
  • Zone (japanese group) - can't find any evidence of their existence or encyclopedic worth. Tuf-Kat 02:48, Dec 28, 2003 (UTC)
    • There's an external link on the page which proves their existence (unless Sony music are lying to us all). Delete, no indication in the article of encyclopedic worth... Onebyone 04:01, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

December 30

  • USA for Africa. Very bad prose. Either needs massive copy-editing, or deletion. -- Khym Chanur 03:53, Dec 30, 2003 (UTC)
    • It's a copy vio . But leave it for a few minutes and I'll work on it. Anjouli
    • How does it look now? I've turned it into a stub. (Should USA for Africa have a credit/link under Live Aid? Not sure if that was under the USAforA banner or not, and have no time to look it up at the moment. Anjouli 04:39, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • Danish nation. Other than a couple of political rant home pages, I can find no trace of this concept or terminology anywhere - except on Wiki clone pages. Elsewhere, "Danish nation" is simply used to mean "Denmark". Anjouli
    • Agree. Delete - Marshman 20:04, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • M.R.M. Parrott - personal promo -- Tarquin 20:56, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • not a valid reason, even if true (all authors entries are promos)
    • a valid reason: a page about an (mostly unkown) author by the author isn'ät exactly an encyclopedic entry. Should be deleted or reduced to a more NPOV page till we *) 21:52, Dec 30, 2003 (UTC)
      • don't see that reason in the guidelines.
      • maybe you could offer some NPOV suggestions or just edit it yourself? while you're at it, you could dial back the insults on the Talk:M.R.M._Parrott page.
    • Keep, as long as that Barnes and Nobles part is deleted, cause THAT does look like he wants people to go buy his books at my favorite, by the way, book store! Antonio Sleeping Beauty Martin
      • done, thanks for the suggestion. didn't see it that way before...
    • Delete. Self-promotion (and it doesn't even have to be promotion) itself is frowned upon in the guidelines. —Sverdrup(talk) 04:07, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • didn't see that in the guidelines in so many words, and it is not self-promotion. it is an entry about a writer who exists in the history of ideas - you know, the sort of thing encyclopedias are all about...
    • Keep! Author has 10 published books and seems well-respected. If it had been written by a disinterested third-party rather than the author, would you feel it was POV? Well, perhaps it is slightly POV. I would say this article was a candidate for reworking rather than deletion. Anjouli 04:33, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • any suggestions for edits from POV to NPOV?
      • well-respected by whom? According to the talk page, the only material about this guy is written by himself! -- Tarquin 10:37, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete. Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not #18 "vehicle for advertising" see Talk:M.R.M. Parrott. This is a clear case of someone using wikipedia for self-promotion. Maximus Rex 09:23, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Del. Self-promotion of insignificant author. --Wik 12:41, Dec 31, 2003 (UTC)
    • NOTE: please view again. page has been reduced to stubish NPOV style, much like many other unknown author entries on wikipedia...
    • Why is everybody so keen to delete an article on a known philosopher with 10 legitimately published books to his credit? Granted, he has a big head and I don't agree with many of his ideas, but this is ridiculous. Is this the same WP that tolerates all these articles on demons, Star Trek and soap-opera? Anjouli 16:51, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Keep, and I strongly agree w Anjouli, I see an amazing amount of (IMO) garbage on the wiki that nobody thinks to delete, and yet self promotion seems to be a area of extrordinarilly excessive concern. I could make a List of worthless wikipedia articles at least a hundred strong, with none of them surpassing this article in value. Why can't I as a reader look up the author of my book? Personally, I would sooner have space "wasted" on the wiki w self promotion, than with List of fictional dogs or other such foolishness. Jack 17:37, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • You all do realize that it appears most if not all of those books and critiques are self-published? If someone can come up with anything significant to say about this author that was not written by Mr. Parrott, then there should be consideration to keeping the article. Otherwise, it is all self-promotional garbage that any one of us (lacking humility) could put together for ourself about ourself - Marshman 20:01, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
      • typical academic - you think the only valuable language comes from the official channels. who are you, by the way, and why does your opinion matter?? where have you been published??
        • Steady on, this isn't part of the conflict between you and "the man". It's a perfectly reasonable request that the encyclopedia article about you, if there is one, should be written by someone other than you, and based on information sources including some which are not you. If nothing else, there is otherwise no way for a reader to get an independent confirmation of judgements like "his work isn't in the tradition of Southern literature". And for reference, the reason Marshman's opinion matters is that he's a regular contributor to Misplaced Pages. If you create a user account and sign your posts, you'll be one step along the (quite short) route to the same place. Onebyone 04:32, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep, it looks fine now. ugen64 03:18, Jan 1, 2004 (UTC)
  • There is a large body of work which M.R.M. Parrott has published which is available online. A NPOV article could be written using that material should anyone take the time to do so. Certainly he erred by writing his own article, but someone who has self-published 10 books, some of which have generated independent interest merits an article. I should point out that if he is worth me making an effort to steal him away for Internet-Encyclopedia, he is also worth being polite to and making a reasonable accomodation with here. Although this is NOT the place for creative philosophical work which seems to be what he does. See Misplaced Pages:No original research Fred Bauder 13:39, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)

December 31

  • Donald A. Peterson
    • Undeleted by me because it wasn't properly listed the first time round. (See here.) No reason for deletion that I can see. -- Oliver P. 06:02, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • There was a general consensus on this page that Sept 11th victims without otherwise encyclopedic lives should be moved to the Sept 11th wiki and deleted. For fairness we should do it to all of them. Delete both this and the next two listed. And I think from now on they should be candidates for immediate moving and deletion. moink 06:30, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete, nonfamous --Jiang
    • Move to sep11 wiki and delete. Alfio 14:39, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete, belongs on sep11, not here. Onebyone 17:17, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete. Reason: person not famous. It was moved to the sep11 wiki by someone . Maximus Rex 04:42, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
  • John J. Wenckus
    • Undeleted by me because it wasn't properly listed the first time round. (See here.) No reason for deletion that I can see. -- Oliver P. 06:02, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete, nonfamous. --Jiang
    • Move to sep11 wiki and delete. Alfio 14:39, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete, belongs on sep11, not here. Onebyone 17:17, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete. Reason: person not famous. It was moved to the sep11 wiki by someone ]. Maximus Rex 04:42, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
  • Jean Hoadley Peterson
    • Deleted without Vfd notice having been added, suggesting that it may not have been listed on Misplaced Pages:Votes for deletion at all. (I never saw it there.) No reason for deletion that I can see. -- Oliver P. 06:02, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Move to sep11 wiki and delete. Alfio 14:39, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete, belongs on sep11, not here. Onebyone 17:17, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete. The only page this links to is Donald A. Peterson which has been moved to the Sep11 wiki. It therefore makes sense to move both of them. I don't see why these keep being listed on VfD separately. This particular page has been listed on the list of pages to be moved to the Sep11 wiki for over 9 months without objection! I suggest people edit that list if they object rather than wasting VfD space with listings of these every week. Just get on with moving them rather than discussing it. If any of those people really are worthy of an article here, someone will, at some point, write an article about them. Keeping a memorial page here about them isn't the most useful start for a real article anyway, and someone wanting to see such a page is more likely to look for it at the Sep11 wiki than in what is supposed to be an encyclopædia. Angela. 01:42, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Reason: person not famous. It was moved to the sep11 wiki by someone ]. Maximus Rex 04:42, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
  • Predicted effects of invading Iran. Attempting to 'predict' the effects of something is "primary research" (see What Misplaced Pages is not #10). (The page was also written by a user that has subsequently been banned.) Maximus Rex 11:22, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Keep. The article is simply reporting what proponents and detractors are saying. That's not research. The article writer is unimportant. Same for the next article. Alfio 14:42, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete unless the claims can be specifically sourced. "I heard a rumour that someone might have said X" is not good enough for an encyclopedia article. See Misplaced Pages:Verifiability. Onebyone 16:09, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete. Who invaded Iran? Rather silly IMHO - Marshman 19:50, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete. What are the predicted effects of not invading Iran? (which as far as I know is more likely to happen for the next year at least). What are the unpredicted effects, by the way? Pfortuny 22:15, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete --Jiang
  • Predicted effects of invading Iraq Attempting to 'predict' the effects of something is "primary research" (see What Misplaced Pages is not #10). (The page was also written by a user that has subsequently been banned.) Since Iraq has been invaded this page is now pointless. Maximus Rex 11:22, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete unless the claims can be specifically sourced. "I heard a rumour that someone might have said X" is not good enough for an encyclopedia article. See Misplaced Pages:Verifiability. Onebyone 16:09, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete. Presdumably there will be a history article on this, and therefore musings on "predictions" is political POV. Not for Misplaced Pages - Marshman 19:50, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete, see my comment above. Pfortuny 22:15, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Keep, potentially useful with attributions.—Eloquence
    • Delete, moot --Jiang
  • Alleged effects of invading Iraq. - This article lists only the actual (but, for neutrality called alleged) effects of invading Iraq. Currently has very little content. Neither title nor current contents encourage responsible additions. I say give it up as a dead loss. Even if an independent article is needed on the effects of the 2003 invasion of Iraq, this isn't that article. Onebyone 16:47, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete. The term "alleged" does not gicve it neutrality in POV but encourges POV - Marshman 19:50, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Uninformed drivel. Delete.—Eloquence
    • Delete --Jiang
  • Raspberry (disambiguation) - after removal of non-disambiguating content (a slang definition and a link to some award which now has its own page), only a self-link remains.—Eloquence
    • Delete - Marshman 19:50, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
    • Delete - This type of disambiguation page is only useful if linked to from a "primary topic" page. Otherwise, move (to eliminate the "(disambiguation)" part of the name) and redirect. -Anthropos 16:06, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)

January 1

  • Grunge Baby - nonfamous band -- JeLuF 02:00, Jan 1, 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Non-famous bands can still have a page, but probably should be confined to a "list of" pages and not referenced as being in the "notable" or otherwise, sections of the genre articles. We already have plenty of non-famous bands articles, there's a grey area between "alternative/independent" and non-famous, almost by definition many "indie" bands are non-famous, I see no harm in keeping the article. --Lexor 05:34, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
      • Have you looked at the article? The band formed a couple of months ago and has done nothing. If there are articles on bands of a similar calibre, please list on vfd so they can be deleted too. Maximus Rex 05:37, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
        • OK, you have a point. The acts I was referring to have released CDs and aren't well known but generally have been around a couple of years at least. This is possibly a case of self-promotion. I still maintain it's a slippery slope, but if there majority vote goes to delete, I won't object. --Lexor 05:43, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. According to the only online reference to this band, they have no songs and no CDs. Maximus Rex 05:39, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
  • Gore Personal and Political Controversies. Besides an ill-advised title, hopelessly POV. RickK 04:18, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
    • Content was moved from Al Gore. Delete, but do not move all this POV crap back, salvage whatver is relevant for a biographical article, not some anti-Gore political rant. --Jiang 04:53, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Any NPOV content on the subject belongs in the Al Gore article itself, not swept under the carpet like this. Salsa Shark 20:12, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Removing controversy to a seperate article is not acceptable. Given the user's edits, calling this an attempt to "sweep under the carpet" seems plausible. Information about Gore should stay in the Al Gore page. Maximus Rex 05:59, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
    • I learned quite a bit from this article and found it NPOV. Content is good, does it belong on the Al Gore page? Or was it moved from there because Al Gore was getting too big? No vote on the page, but I vote to keep the content. moink 19:01, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep the information! I strongly agree with Moink that this is an informative, useful, even necessary addition to an accurate and full article on Gore. While some may have an agenda and prefer one type of (flattering) information, if you sincerely find the tone rather than the content POV, please edit the article. If you are looking to remove facts which you dislike, find a new subject, your POV has gotten out of hand here. Jack 21:01, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Appears NPOV and informative. Or perhaps move contents back to the full article. Coren 21:10, Jan 1, 2004 (UTC)