User talk:Ludwigs2 - Misplaced Pages

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Welcome!

Hello, Ludwigs2, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! -- Quiddity (talk) 01:22, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Words to avoid

Please read: Words to avoid: However, whereas, despite ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 03:23, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't stick your nose in my shit, ok?

If anything happens to my page I'll fix it, cause sometimes I forget to log in and edit without being logged in. And if you see anything put it on the talk page. User: Kazaan

hmmm... sorry, generally with talk pages I revert obscenities that are posted by anon users without much thought. I don't know how I could determine that you were intentionally putting 'F@#k that' on your page. I'll try to take more care in the future, but it would be easier all around if you logged yourself in to add comments that might get flagged. my apologies though. :-) --Ludwigs2 17:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

For the reverts :) --Bfigura's puppy (talk) 02:09, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

no prob. :-)--Ludwigs2 (talk) 02:56, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for reverting mine too - much appreciated. ~~ 19:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Add me to the thanks list! :) ParticleMan (talk) 21:23, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Me too! thanks for reverting the crap on my userpage :). Ironho lds 01:56, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

WikiThanks

Thank You! for reverting vandalism in my userpage Vipinhari (talk) 11:21, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Me too! Roadrunnerz45 13:35, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks from me as well! :-) —David Levy 18:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

And Me(ARBAY (talk) 21:52, 5 June 2008 (UTC)) could you tell me how to get an IP temporarily blocked

all the info you'd ever want (and a lot you don't) can be found here: Misplaced Pages:Block :-) --Ludwigs2 (talk) 23:37, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Thankyou (ARBAY (talk) 11:31, 6 June 2008 (UTC))

Likewise from me. (Wonder which vandalism account that was?) --Orange Mike | Talk 01:31, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

User:Kaiba

I would appreciate it if you didn't revert edits to my old userpage. Thanks. — Moe ε 20:09, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

lol - sorry. :-)

It's ok :) — Moe ε 20:17, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Little reward for you

		The RickK Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
		For your great anti-vandalism work on both articles and userpages. Better build yourself a userpage so you have somewhere to stick this thing! Ironho lds 02:47, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Talkpage revert

Thanks! --M1ss1ontomars2k4 (talk) 04:13, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

copyright material

It was to my prograciouse intention of removing article 'Etekone', how dare you have the audacity in restoring the material of which whom i soley own the copyright of. I suggest that you remove the article from its corrosponding position and think about your inadaquate actions. Yours sincerly

IP.08787985897028

Dear IP - if it is copyrighted material, then please use the appropriate Misplaced Pages template to mark the page for removal, which you can find here WP:Template_messages/User_talk_namespace/Single-level_templates. it's the fourth one down, regarding copyrights. Blanking the page is generally considered vandalism, and is usually reverted as a mattter of course. However, Misplaced Pages will remove copyrighted material quickly, and help you assure that it remains off the site. my apologies, of course; I meant no disrespect. --Ludwigs2 (talk) 20:55, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for reverting the vandalism on my page. I was away, so I didn't see it. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 00:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Ditto. Many thanks indeed, Vishnava_talk 20:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reverts!

Thank you for the vandalism reverts on my user page. It would appear that 68.92.206.66 (talk · contribs) is one of the many (see Category:Suspected Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Mariam83) IP socks of banned editor Mariam83 (talk · contribs). --Kralizec! (talk) 12:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for this userpage revert! Much appreciated --Faradayplank (talk) 21:10, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, allow me to add to the thanks for reverting userpage vandals. Looks like that IP was a sockpuppet of this guy and is a little steamed about the MfD on his user page.... Anyway keep up the great work! Beeblbrox (talk) 04:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

My page

Thanks for reverting vandalism on my user page. Imperial Star Destroyer (talk) 15:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

HE OR SHE IS ACCUSIN ME OF SHIT I DIDNT DO Y NOT WARN HIM OR HER I DIDNT EDIT CROSS CLOTHES UNTIL I WAS TOLD I EDITED THAT SHIT (WHICH I DIDNT)BUT NO U JUS BLAME ME NOW IF HE OR SHE DONT APOLOGISE 4 ACCUSIN ME OF SHIT I DIDNT DO THEN I WILL WRITE SHIT 2 HIM OR HER IM NOT GONNA BE ACCUSED OF SHIT I DIDNT DO END OF — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.155.123.148 (talk • contribs) 20:36, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

ok, I understand. but try not to go all incredible hulk on her page. just leave a message, and if necessary, let me know and I'll help you take it up with the admins. --Ludwigs2 20:44, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

First, I wanted to thank you, Ludwigs2, for stepping in and reverting and warning this user for their disruption. Second, I just wanted to let you know what I "accused" this IP of. The diff is here, and you can see my response here. That struck me as a run-of-the mill test edit, bordering on vandalism, but I figured I'd WP:AGF, so I left a test1 notice on the page about making test edits. The user got hot under the collar because I warned him and posted this edit to my userpage here. That would have been all well and good, if it were on my talk page. I'd just blow it off, as a disgruntled anon IP. But, since it was an edit to my user page, using strong language, not a user talk message, it struck me as the sort of retaliatory vandalism RC Patrollers often get from anon IPs they warn. Because this IP has never made a constructive edit, and because the content of the retalitory edit was a demand I retract a deserved warning, I skipped test2 and issued a test3 warning for the edits to my userpage. It just spiraled from there, with the IP getting madder and madder with vandalism to my user page. I posted a final warning, then a note that the vandalism continued after the final warning, then you and xenocidic took over warning the user and reverting my user page, doing exactly as I had been. Eventually, xenocidic posted a message giving him a chance to discuss the matter civily and instructing him on the use of talk pages. The IP responded to xenocidic's post by vandalizing my user page a few more times, confirming the IP's bad faith. So, xeoncidic blocked him for 48 hours. Another day on RC Patrol. AubreyEllenShomo (talk) 21:06, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

And it looks like this IP was denied {{unblock}} by an uninvolved administrator. AubreyEllenShomo (talk) 21:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

If I may ask your frank opinion, do you believe I handled this reasonably? AubreyEllenShomo (talk) 21:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

looks to me like you did everything you could. there's not a lot you can do when someone wants to get up in arms about something. when he cools off, maybe he'll post a little more carefully. <shrug> no worries, that's my philosophy. :-) --Ludwigs2 00:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

More thanks

I also thank you for reverting the vandalism on my user page. The last one you got to a split second before I did, but I reported the vandal to WP:AIV and he/she was immediatedly blocked for 55 hours. dhett 01:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

And similar thanks from me. It's truly amazing what will cross the minds of vandals, is it not? And there I thought my page was rather tame compared to so many others. ;-) Risker (talk) 21:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

yeah... probably the guy was just looking for someplace to goof around, and your page just happened to be there. people are weird that way. :-\ --Ludwigs2 21:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Nah, in my case he was vandalising an article I'd worked on, and had reverted him and left him a warning about it a few days ago, so it was a targeted hit in my case. For how little vandalism patrol I do, I seem to get hit fairly often; that's about the third or fourth time. Risker (talk) 21:41, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for catching vandalism to my user page. If I'm angering vandals that must mean I'm doing something right, right? --Gimme danger (talk) 23:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe it's the user name :D. ~~ 23:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

lol - could be either. :-) the trick, I think, is to push people just enough to get them out of their mental ruts, but not so hard that they want to jump you in the alley. not saying I do it well myself, but... --Ludwigs2 23:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

202.3.37.74, Playstation 2 & User:TreyGeek

Slightly humorous that we were in a revert war against this person. I started watching his contrib page after his last set of changes to Playstation 2 and saw him vandalize my user page. You undid it seconds before I got to it and put in a request to block him. Your quick, thank you. --TreyGeek (talk) 23:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

confused

You appear to have nominated my user page for speedy deletion. . . why? evildeathmath 13:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

yes, sorry. it was attracting a lot of vandalism, and seemed to be nothing more than old monetary scam to begin with. I assumed that you would resolve the issue if in fact that was what you wanted. --Ludwigs2 17:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

gotcha--no, it was a parody of a Nigerian scam email that I pasted in there when I was experimenting with setting up the user-page; I realized belatedly that it was probably still there and that's why it got deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Evildeathmath (talk • contribs) 17:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure you can just recreate the page, if you haven't already. If not, I'm sure we can get an administrator to do so. let me know if you have any problems. :-) --Ludwigs2 17:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi

I deleted the stuff because Manaspunhani is my old account. I want it to be deleted can u do it or tell e how to do it. If you need proof that the User: Manaspunhani is my account u can chech the IP Adress. Pl. delete User Manaspunhani Enthusiast10 (talk —Preceding comment was added at 18:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

sorry, my bad. :-) --Ludwigs2 18:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

whoops, forgot about the other part. I think you can just log into the account and ask to have it deleted. let me look it up and I'll get back to you. --Ludwigs2 18:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

see this page for instructions: Misplaced Pages:User#How_do_I_delete_my_user_pages.3F --Ludwigs2 18:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

O hai

I appreciate that you're trying to keep Misplaced Pages free of vandalism, but I'm not exactly attempting to vandalize. I'm Saint Arctica, and I lost my password and can't log in. Please refrain from reverting my edits to my own page in the future. 70.7.181.183 (talk) 19:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

sorry, I'll try to remember. the anon addresses are hard to keep straight, though. can you make a request to get your password? --Ludwigs2 19:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Third Opinion

Hi, you were kind enough to invest time here Talk:Signaling System 7#third_opinion - could you please revisit or suggest what to do next as the user Dgtsyb just seems to be continuing in a harmful fashion so the basic question of linking to a book remains unresolved? Leedryburgh (talk) 22:41, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for looking again, I note that you stated "my recommendation is to leave the link out of the article until a less commercial format can be given (Lee, leave a note on my talk page if you need help with technical details); once that is provided I see no reason for it to be excluded". The book has been made available by the publisher in Kindle format. Few people have it and it costs money 50+ USD. The website I linked to contains the entire book contents. What is it you suggest I do? Leedryburgh (talk) 23:13, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

well, seems to me you have a couple of options, with variations.

convert the HTML to pdf format, and make a direct link to the pdf.
remove or drastically reduce the banners on the html page that you have.

the first option might require you to make a new agreement with the book publisher (don't want to interfere with their Kindle revenues) - I don't know anything about that, so you should ask them directly. however, I can help you convert it to pdf format if they agree, and that's what you deside to do.

for the second option, can you edit the website to remove the banners? I can help with that as well, if you need assistance. a more appropriate format (at least wikipediawise) would be to have an introductory page that says "the rights to this book are owned by such-n-such a publisher, copies are available on Kindle, but the publisher has graciously allowed it to be published for free in html format, yadda-yadda-yadda, more information about the author can be found here" (and at that point link to your own page, where you can say what you like). the important thing is to remove even the most remote implication that Misplaced Pages might be involved in endorsing, supporting, or doing whatever for your particular book above other books or venues. in other words, the book has to appear on wikipedia only as a notable and useful text in the field, without (as much as possible) any association with your commercial activities and interests.

I mean, I know that from your perspective that might be a very difficult distinction to make, but think of it this way: wouldn't it be more satisfying to have someone take one of your seminars because they read your book and thought it was tremendously useful, than to have them take the seminar because they got smacked in the face with a banner? just include it here for its information value, and let other things follow as they will. :-) --Ludwigs2 23:56, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Ludwigs2 (talk · contribs), could you please mediate further in this matter? Leedryburgh (talk · contribs) does not wish to permit external link examination tags to be applied to the section containing his links. These are links that were not removed, so I take it that Leedryburgh (talk · contribs) does not agree with your proposed compromise, above. Dgtsyb (talk) 22:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Eye exercises and pinhole glasses

Hi Ludwigs2. Thanks for helping with the eye exercises article. If you haven't already, could you take a look at what Ronz just deleted from the pinhole glasses article and his stated reason for doing so? I think this provides some definite insight into his mindset. PSWG1920 (talk) 16:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

ok, I want ahead and re-added a revised version. please read the talk page, though; I feel uncomfortable about intruding on these pages too often, and I think do you guys can negotiate a working relationship. --Ludwigs2 16:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. After Ronz's deletion, I thought about revising it myself, but given his reasoning and being somewhat familiar with his tendencies I figured he'd either revert again or place more tags at the top, which he may still do. PSWG1920 (talk) 17:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

well, sometimes you have to push for what you think is right, and if that causes a dispute, that causes a dispute. I'll keep working to try to get you guys on the same page, but don't worry about the tags if they happen. all that does is call attention to a problem, which may be what's necessary. --Ludwigs2 17:47, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons/BLP Special Enforcement

Hello. Your comment was removed from this page. If you still think it's worth weighing in to the discussion, try the talk page. - brenneman 04:01, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

hmmm... thanks, though I'm a bit confused by that. the distributed link to that page said to leave comments there, and the project page itself said to feel free to edit that page. if that is not the intended behavior, then I think you should edit those comments out (assuming that you haven't already). I was simply following instructions as they were given.

by the way, am I to take it from your tone that you personally don't think it's worth weighing in on this subject, or that you don't think it's worth it for me to weigh in on the subject? --Ludwigs2 17:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh goodness! That wasn't at all my intent, so I'm glad that you asked. I think this is an important issue, and I want as wide a discussion as possible.

You are correct, the "Interested editors are invited to comment here" link points to the main page, not the talk page and that should be corrected.

I believe that your comment was removed because is was a signed, personal-style comment. Signed comments are normally moved to the talk page, in this case though the person who removed your comments didn't do that. I came along afterwards, and my "if you still want to..." phrasing was because quite a bit of further discussion had occured. I thought you might want a chance to read that newer discussion before commenting.

brenneman 23:44, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

ah, I understand. :-) I will go and read the talk page again, and post my comments there (if it still seems appropriate). I do thank you for taking the time to notify me, and I apologize if I caused any difficulties. honestly, I hadn't anticipated the wikipedia learning curve to be quite as steep as it's turned out to be. if I make any other errors that you notice, please do point them out to me. I can use all the help I can get - lol. --Ludwigs2 03:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Accusations

Please use the WP:RFC/USER process instead of revert warring over this on the article talk page. PhilKnight (talk) 01:31, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Phil, please do not accuse me of revert warring until I have stepped over the bounds of the 3RR rule. and please do not defend ScienceApologists unwarranted behavior. I will go and file and RFC user as you suggest, but I would ask you to reinstate my comments on the talk page. refactoring talk page contents without cause is clearly a violation of wikipedia policy. the other option is for me to ask for Administrator intervention. --Ludwigs2 01:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

First, you can be blocked for revert warring without stepping over the 3rr line. Second, article talk space is for discussing the article - not for attacking or accusing other users of various real or imagined misdeeds. Please use caution. Vsmith (talk) 01:49, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

well, Vsmith, it seems as though this system is so thoroughly gamed that it is impossible for me to take any recourse against ScienceApologist's actions.

there's no point in filing a wikiquette alert because it will be immediately marked as resolved and forgotten.
there's no point in filing a mediation request, because SA has already demonstrated a complete disregard for any form of communication about article content.
there's no point in filing an RfC/User because (through SA's refactorings of my talk_space posts) I cannot make other editors aware of the problem. and no doubt that would be disappeared as quickly as a wikiquette alert anyway.
there's no way for me (that I know of) to request neutral administrator action.

This is fine. I can't fight people who aren't willing to be honest in their dealings, or who are willing to go to these extremes for such a small victory, so I'll back off from the article until such a time as the climate changes. however, I will continue to dispute the neutrality of that article, if only passively.

C'est la vie... --Ludwigs2 02:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello Ludwigs. You may as well continue filing wikiquette alerts or an RfC/User for SA if you feel they are warranted. It is certainly more constructive than posting it on the talk page of an article, which is for discussing improvements to the article, not behaviour of other users. If SA is refactoring posts on your talk space (ie - here), or in other user_talk pages, I would again bring that to the attention of admins. Cheers, DigitalC (talk) 03:58, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, you may want to review Misplaced Pages:Talk_page_guidelines#Others.27_comments, particularly the section stating that "deleting material not relevant to improving the article" is an example of appropriate editing anothers comments. Feel free to delete THIS after reading it though, as this is your talk page. DigitalC (talk) 04:11, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

DTTR

WP:DTTR. ScienceApologist (talk) 01:17, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

that is not a policy or guideline, and I am not required to follow it. when in fact you begin behaving as though you were an experienced editor, I will begin treating you like one. in the meantime, I will follow bureaucratic procedures as I deem necessary. --Ludwigs2 01:22, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Busy and curt internet tone

Honestly, I think the big "gulf" between us is that you seem to be under the impression that there exist this group of "hard-core" skeptics who are "just as fringe" as the people who believe in "magic". This is a big problem for me because science is pragmatically if not philosophically hard-core skeptical. The issue is that while scientists don't necessarily dismiss claims out-of-hand for methodological reasons, they do dismiss claims out-of-hand when they are a radical departure for no other reason than it would be impossible to reformulate a lifetime of learning to the new paradigm: and it may not be worth it anyway.

So what we have is a scientific community that is violently silent on many fringe subjects and treats them meanly. Really harshly: with ridicule and disdain. This ridicule and disdain festers and brews and doesn't come up to the surface very much. References to it are hard to find and tend to show up in weird places (for example, I have an introductory astronomy text on my desk which dispatches Ufology in very harsh terms -- but there are no peer-reviewed articles which do the same).

The issue for me is that Misplaced Pages is a first-stop reference for people who have varying degrees of education. It is dishonest for us to tell students who read Misplaced Pages that any idea is taken more seriously than it actually is. We need to be forceful in our approximation of reality. Are you a student who wants to study the physics of ghosts? Sorry, fellow. That's just not going to happen. Giving students false hope in that regard is something that Misplaced Pages should not be in the business of doing.

We have developed a set of standards that really do lay this out well. WP:WEIGHT means that we do not pretend that ideas which are far-fetched deserve treatment with kid-gloves. They should be forcefully dispatched and labeled for what they are. That's simply so that people don't get the wrong idea. We aren't here to right great wrongs. We're here to write an encyclopedia that places the rights and wrongs of the world in plain site without commentary or pandering.

People seem to think that skeptics are "way out there". In a sense they are right: skeptics are simply militantly stating what is whispered in the halls of the ivory tower. They are good sources for information on what people think because they are so blunt in their critiques. The reasons skeptics exist is because the scientific community generally doesn't waste its time with the plethora of half-baked and sometimes fully-baked but not-well-considered ideas that get tossed around the world. Skeptics are brutal and they use tactics that can be at best described as cruel. They do not shy away from using any rhetorical technique necessary to get their point across. They stoop to the level of those which they attack and occasionally loose arguments based on their incivility rather than their substance.

I come across as a skeptic at Misplaced Pages simply because I think that there is an intrinsic bias on this site toward accommodating fringe beliefs. I have a list of people I think should be banned from editing articles relating to pseudoscience. I've been successful at getting a number of people banned in the past, but at this point have found it more successful to simply be a stick-in-the-mud when it comes to this stuff. Most fringe-proponents simply get too tired of hitting their heads against the brick wall to continue. I simply let them wear themselves out. Some have more patience than others. Those are the ones I have the most trouble dealing with.

At this point, I myself am something of an expert on pseudoscience. There is almost nothing that I don't know about with regards to what kind of kooky alternative ideas are out there. I see it as Misplaced Pages's job to explain to people how kooky they all are with respect to the ideas out there which are manifestly conceded to be not kooky.

ScienceApologist (talk) 04:19, 20 June 2008 (UTC)