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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by FatM1ke (talk | contribs) at 03:24, 18 July 2008 (→Re:Obesity Pictures: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

I am a Canadian Physician

Welcome

Welcome!

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Again, welcome!  JFW | T@lk 18:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Obesity

Thanks for your comments on Talk:Obesity and your message on my talkpage. I must say I had some difficulty following some of your comments (probably due to the formatting), but I'm sure that will sort itself out.

The reason you cannot presently edit obesity is quite simple: it is semi-protected. This will stop random people continuously vandalising the article with messages like "My teacher Mrs Jones is the fattest pesron in the wurld LOL 1!" Unfortunately, these edits vastly outstrip the number of constructive edits received from anonymous and brand-new accounts. Your account will be autoconfirmed after a few days and a number of constructive edits elsewhere on Misplaced Pages. Once this is the case, you are free to edit the article.

My view is that the obesity article is presently the right size and should not be expanded much more. Rather, existing content needs to be improved and supported with high-quality references (outline on reliable medical sources). If there is sufficient reason, it may be necessary to split off subarticles (e.g. medical consequences of obesity), but only if truly necessary. JFW | T@lk 18:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi,

you seem to be familiar with medical literature. If you use Pubmed, you can copy-past the PMID number at the bottom of the abstract entry into diberri's tool to automatically generate properly formatted references.

Let me know if you need any help.

cheers, --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 18:24, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Obesity again

Thanks for your expansion of obesity. I need to point out a few things before you carry on. Firstly, please familiarise yourself with the manual of style. For instance, in the header "Sedentary Lifestyle" the word "lifestyle" should be lowercase.

More importantly, please make no further edits to the article until you have looked at WP:CITE and we way references are formatted. Before you started, most references were formatted with the {{cite journal}} template, which standardises the references and gives rapid access to online versions of journal articles through PubMed and DOI. Stevenfruitsmaak (above) has provided a link to a tool that rapidly generates template code. It is easy to use. Simply adding bare URLs or unformatted text is not really acceptable. I will try to tidy up as much as I can. JFW | T@lk 19:22, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I have now fixed all the references. You are free to have a look at the page history to see what changes have been made.

I specifically dropped the citations to mortality studies from the introduction. Ideally, Misplaced Pages articles should be sourced to review articles and other secondary sources. The Lancet review by James and Haslam does a fine job at discussing shortened life expectancy in obesity, so I simply used that as a reference. Have a look at WP:MEDRS, the medical sources guideline.

Let me know if you need a hand with anything. JFW | T@lk 09:12, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Secondary sources are really more ideal than primary ones. For a full explanation you'd be better off looking at WP:MEDRS. Reviews (especially systematic reviews) do a better job at distinguishing between important and less important primary research.

I would really discourage plainly removing information like the citation to Quetelet's studies in the 19th century. This is an encyclopedia and not a scientific publication, and while in the New England Journal of Medicine such a citation would be out of place, it is definitely acceptable here and should probably be retained. JFW | T@lk 16:09, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Where systematic reviews are not available, WP:MEDRS has a list of other suitable sources. There are definitely exceptions to all those rules.

I'm not sure what you mean by "subsection". If you mean a separate article, then we'd better discuss this on Talk:Obesity so other contributors will be able to weigh in. Tonight I will try to change the bulleted list of complications into a table (prettier and easier to navigate). I have no objections against dedicated sections for mortality and on the "obesity paradox", provided adequate sources are available to populate such sections. JFW | T@lk 16:52, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Misplaced Pages pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 17:40, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Images

There is no Misplaced Pages policy on images from clinical practice. There are two separate issues: copyright and patient consent. There's an ongoing discussion about the level of care needed when publishing images of patients or their results. I personally think that completely anonymised data (i.e. an X-ray with the personal data removed) is impossible to trace, and all you will need is an idea whether the owner of the image agrees for it to be released under the WP:GFDL. This is probably your employer. In my mind, very few hospitals will object to their staff using anonymised patients' imaging for illustrative purposes in publications, and that would normally extend to Misplaced Pages. That's the copyright side of things. Then there's patient consent. I would personally obtain written consent from a patient if they were identifiable from the image. Some users have been more careful, and have signed written consent from their patients on file even if the image in question is untraceable (i.e. endoscopy stills).

Thanks ever so much for your continued work on obesity. You'll find me trying to expand it, and I may end up reshuffling and rephrasing some things that you've added. Bear with me. I'm an old hand and I think we share the conviction that the article can be improved to very high quality. JFW | T@lk 18:56, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

With regards to images from WHO and NIH publications - if they are truly public domain then there are no restrictions at all. But the situation may be more complex: see Misplaced Pages:Image use policy for details. JFW | T@lk 19:04, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm certain Mr Uptodate will object if you post his images on Misplaced Pages. However, a version redrawn by yourself might get Jeff Drazen annoyed. Suggest you ask Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions - responses are gratifyingly quick. JFW | T@lk 01:56, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Spelling and grammar

Could I encourage you to pay some attention to your spelling and grammar. On obesity I have had to correct quite a few spelling mistakes and grammatical errors. JFW | T@lk 02:46, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Mozilla Firefox has an inbuilt spellchecker, but it doesn't do grammar. On Misplaced Pages, bots (automated scripts) occasionally correct frequently made errors, but that process is slow. JFW | T@lk 02:52, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

It is always "weight loss" and never "weight lose". I've had to correct this error a couple of times now. JFW | T@lk 18:16, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Image at juggling

Hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! I never managed to do more than flash five (once), but I was pretty good at three-ball "penguin" once upon a time. I'm glad that you've showed up at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Medicine and hope that you'll stick around. I think WPMED is one of the most interesting groups on Misplaced Pages -- a lot of experienced editors (I see a couple of them have already found your talk page!) and everyone interested in a high-quality product. Thanks again for your contributions! WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:22, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

As a side note, free images you upload will be moved to Wikimedia Commons, whereas fair use images belong on Misplaced Pages. See Misplaced Pages:Wikimedia Commons. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 13:10, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Use of primary research

I removed the reference to a primary research study with a good reason, so unless that reason is addressed I don't think I can agree to reinsert it. WP:MEDRS, our sources guideline for medical articles, discourages primary research study barring very specific exceptions. All important reasons are listed there, so I will not rehash them. In this particular example, there might be various reasons why the study results might not be generalisable for the point you wanted to make (e.g. ethnic differences in metabolism leading to brisk weight response to aerobic exercise). JFW | T@lk 22:17, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Removing content

I have already explained why I removed the Singapore recruits content. You are using it to offer an example, yet we cannot know if that is a representative example. Has that study been cited in secondary sources? How about citing the secondary source? You must again familiarise yourself with WP:MEDRS, because that is the crux; it is not an empty issue. There are (as I indicated on Talk:Obesity) various reasons why the study might not be generalisable, which limits its use as an example.

I'm sorry for not explaining why I removed Fiddler on the Roof. I'm sure large amounts of examples can be found, and this doesn't seem to be a very good one - what does an American writer know about the ideal of beauty in early 20th century Russia? Or is it used as a plot device? Either way, it would be much better to have a secondary source that makes a scientific inventory of perceptions of obesity in various cultures. I cannot imagine these studies have not been conducted - we already have a fairly good one in the form of Powdermaker's chapter in "Food and Culture".

Removing content is not forbidden. I am personally an advocate of the BOLD, revert, discuss cycle. Content is added. If it sticks, great. If it doesn't, there is a talkpage. Again apologies for not clarifying the Fiddler on the Roof reference. JFW | T@lk 05:26, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Concerning primary sources: I have personally taken to citing both the primary source and the secondary source that confirms its relevance (as can be seen on my recent edits to hypopituitarism, where I cite both Simmonds' original paper and the Schneider review to confirm its status as first report). This removes concerns about distortion while ensuring that the sources are relevant.

There is little precedent for using UpToDate as a secondary source. You could try raising this on WT:MEDRS. JFW | T@lk 13:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Re:Obesity Pictures

Hi James

In response to your request, my height and weight at the time the pictures were taken was 322lb/146kg and Height was 5ft 10in, so my BMI at the time was 46.2 I'd be happy to do newer pictures that would probably be better, but I've lost about 50lb since the pics were taken. Just let me know what would be prefferable =] - FatM1ke (talk) 03:24, 18 July 2008 (UTC)