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WikiProject iconArticle Rescue Squadron
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of the Article Rescue Squadron WikiProject, a collaborative effort to rescue items from deletion when they can be improved through regular editing. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, where you can help improve Misplaced Pages articles considered by others to be based upon notable topics.Article Rescue SquadronWikipedia:Article Rescue SquadronTemplate:WikiProject Article Rescue SquadronArticle Rescue Squadron

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Barnstar proposal

I personally have no skill making barnstar templates, but I think it would be a good idea if we did somehow have an Article Rescue Squadron barnstar (unless we do have one and I just don't see it) for editors who making considerable contributions to articles that result in their rescue. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 15:41, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

What sort of thing do you want? F9T 09:59, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
A Barnstar! Rescue
Someone had already uploaded this 'rescue' barnstar, so I snagged it to try a Rescue Squadron barnstar. I can alternately create a different one for us exclusively (any of you who saw mylogo know what I can do, though I *think* I'd just wrap a barnstar in a life preserver, because it's saucy ;-) --Thespian 11:03, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Cool! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 16:16, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
A Barnstar! Rescue from Deletion Barnstar
There is also the Rescue from Deletion Barnstar with this tall image of a helicopter. I'm not sure whether it's been approved by some awards committee, but requiring that would be very un-wiki.--chaser - t 04:27, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I LOVE this one and speaks to the idea of saving an article as well. I think we could have more than one anyway. Benjiboi 07:40, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that is nice! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 15:04, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

One more:

A Barnstar! Rescue More!
As I mentioned I was likely to do above, here's another barnstar based on my previously proposed Rescue Squad logo. Since it's all mine, and I give of it to this project, it won't have any conflicts (though I think the helicopter is cute). --Thespian 12:27, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
This one also nicely ties in our project's regular logo. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 15:04, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Howabout combining the helicopter and this one and simply adding the life-preserver onto the star like we just pulled it from the river? Benjiboi 19:02, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
That is an excellent idea if anyone can do it!! :) Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 20:45, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
That would make the life preserver pretty tiny, though. I don't think it will work that well, but I can try tonight. --Thespian 20:53, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Maybe make the helicopter image a wee bit bigger and tweak the life-preserver to pop more. Benjiboi 21:05, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Making the Helicopter bigger is actually going to worsen the problem. the issue is that barnstar (w/copter) is already bigger than most barnstars, and the barnstar is little. So making the copter bigger is not the right response; if anything, I would make it smaller or find a different copter for it. But you're still going to have a life preserver that's about 4 pixels high at that size, and there's not a lot you can do at that size with it to make it pop more; it's just Too Tiny. --Thespian 21:26, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I should note that the image I linked is Barnstar rescue 04.png. There are other images in that numbering sequence with the same theme: 1, 2, and 3, and a different helicopter.--chaser - t 21:45, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I prefer the helicopter one we have and it is just a barnstar so see what it looks like and we can tweak from there. If the helicopter can't get bigger then simply enlarge the star a bit. Benjiboi 22:32, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Another idea would be to maybe have just the life preserver as a "level 1" award for someone who rescues one article and the one with the helicopter and the life preserver as a "level 2" award for someone who has rescued multiple articles? Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 23:22, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
That would be a keen idea. I can make the barnstars match, and then size will be less relevant, because anyone who rescues several articles will have seen the single one a time or two ;-) --Thespian 04:05, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
I am happy to see that nice response! I do think we should start giving these out somehow, as I've noticed some really commendable successes thus far. Although the following article does not have an ARS tag, I think Empty2005 might merit such recognition for this effort. Regards, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 06:13, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
This is really OT, but I can't resist sharing the literal war story of a friend of mine, who retired from the Air Force as an E-8 parajumper, with every intention of getting his doctorate and teaching at the university level. Somehow, friends got him to first take "one more tour" in a protective detail in Iraq (mostly as a paramedic), and then, when he had taught for another semester, got him for one last one.
He wasn't as lucky on this tour; I think it was suggestive when he said, very calmly, that he really appreciated how quickly the British got fighters and tanks to where they were ambushed. He brightened somewhat, and brought up the old saying "guns don't kill people. People kill people", and explained that his gun saved him. It wasn't that he used it, but he was wearing a M1911, in a shoulder holster, in an upside-down vehicle. A bullet smashed the pistol, but also kept it from going into his chest.
I wonder if I should ask him about PJs and Barnstars? Howard C. Berkowitz (talk) 22:48, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

New Graphic

OK, I have made the suggested graphic, how about this?

A Barnstar! Article Rescue Barnstar
This Article Rescue Barnstar is awarded by the Article Rescue Squadron for outstanding work in preventing an article of encyclopedic content from deletion.

I think that gets it all together. Jim Miller (talk) 21:55, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that looks wonderful. Ties all the earlier ones together, and just looks generally awesome. Great job! Vickser (talk) 23:29, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Made one more. I actually prefer this graphic due to its size and because the helicopter looks more like a US Coast Guard search and rescue one:

A Barnstar! Article Rescue Barnstar
This Article Rescue Barnstar is awarded by the Article Rescue Squadron for outstanding work in preventing an article of encyclopedic content from deletion. Jim Miller (talk) 14:28, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Looks good! I added a number of articles to our category so let's see how many of us can earn these barnstars by the end of the week!  :) --Happy editing! Sincerely, Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 18:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I think this version looks a little cleaner. Both are very nice though. Vickser (talk) 18:26, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Ooops! Lol. I just saw this second one after i created a project template (at top of this page) and Template:The Rescue Barnstar which is now listed at Misplaced Pages:Barnstars. I'm more enamored with the first helicopter/image than the second. Banjeboi 00:57, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Nothing says we can't use one for the Project Template and the other for a barnstar. I was actually thinking we could leave the project page template as you designed it (maybe reduce the size of the image because it's resolution is showing a bit at 125px). We could use the one with the orange copter to reward those who find and tag articles for rescue, and then we could use the star User:Thespian made as a barnstar for editing an article into shape. Should be easy enough to whip up the templates. Jim Miller (talk) 20:18, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


Suggest {{rescue}} be mentioned in the AfD Deletion policy article

I would have added it myself, but I'm not sure how you would want to position rescuing after AfD nomination vs. using improvement templates as an alternative to nominating for deletion. Once an article has been AfD-nominated, would you add two tags to rescue it? For example: "{{rescue}}{{npov}}" rather than just "{{rescue}}". Anyway, good luck with your work ...I rescued Bed management from AfD recently so I have some idea what the task involves: I knew nothing whatsoever about the subject until I decided to rescue it! - Pointillist (talk) 22:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Since {{rescue}} is tied directly to the AfD procedure, the page to mention the template would be Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion. Since that is the page documenting the procedure. However the template is already mentioned at that page. Taemyr (talk) 22:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
And nice work on Bed management. Taemyr (talk) 23:01, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

DRV rescue template?

I think a DRV rescue template should be made as well for such articles as Alien and Predator timeline. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 00:13, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Problematic. ARS is about improving articles up to a state where they will pass. For DRV the articles are deleted, so can not be accessed. Taemyr (talk) 15:41, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Not always as some DRVs are for articles that were kept. --Happy editing! Sincerely, Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 02:54, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Agreed, DRV os suppose to be about teh AfD itself not the article per se. If there is a DRV in process, however, I'm not opposed to improving an article during DRV so those looking can see improvements in process. Banjeboi 02:52, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


Terry Ananny

Please see talk page of article re: Terry Ananny Canadian UNICEF Artist which states that Terry Ananny is a Canadian artist with notable collections such as Ottawa Senators Hockey Club, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp., Ottawa General Hospital - Riverside Campus, CTV Television Corporation, Global Television, Canada House (Canadian Embassy in Brussels, Belgium) and Canadian Medical Association. Her work has illustrated the cover of Canadian Health Services Research Foundation 2000 Annual Report Cover Her work has been selected by UNICEF for greeting cards in the years 1998, 2001, 2002, 2004 (three cards), 2006, 2007, 2008 and just recently selected for UNICEF's Christmas in Canada 2010 greeting card collection. Her work has appeared on Canada Save the Children cards in 1999, Children's Wish Foundation cards work selected 2006, 2007 and 2008, Mount Sinai Hospital card work selected 2007 and Canadian Greetings card work selected 2006, 2007 and 2008. Her work was chosen by the Quebec Ministry of Education for their 2008 video "Art Speaks", which was distributed throughout the English school board in Quebec. Cornerstone 52 Foundation - Cards Helping Kids has selected Ananny's work to appear on greeting cards in 2006 and 2007. Large corporations have also selected Ananny's work to appear on corporate greeting cards; Amway 2004, Reynolds Mirth Richards and Farmers 2005, Blake, Cassels and Graydon 2007. Her work has appeared on the CD cover "Chantons Noel" 2005 (CPM Distribution). Her work has been collected by Jean Charest, Quebec Liberal Party Residence, Former Prime Minister Jean Chretien and Former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney. Terry Ananny is listed in the following government libraries: Artists in Canada - National Gallery of Canada Art Gallery of Ontario Musee d'art Contemporain de Montreal . Ananny has also attained notability through having over one thousand paintings in corporate and private collections world wide... User:Jane Rushmore June 23, 2008 —Preceding comment was added at 04:00, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Update. This was deleted and looks like we could have saved it per Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Terry Ananny. Banjeboi 23:28, 19 July 2008 (UTC)


Rescuing the Warhammer and Ace Combat stuff

Alternatives to rescue the articles themseleves would be to merge and redirect some of them into character lists and other articles. --Happy editing! Sincerely, Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 17:01, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Articles I will be AFDing

In the spirit of co-operation, I've been asked to give you a heads up on the other warhammer articles I will be AFD'd in the next future - this is to give you an opportunity to "rescue them" and avoid the process. I'll check back in two weeks. The articles are:

--Allemandtando (talk) 09:22, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I am going through them today for the quick grammar and format fixes to get the ball rolling. I have also notified The Intensive Care Unit to seek additional help. --Happy Festival of Castor and Pollux! Sincerely, Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 17:25, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Sorry that edit summary is to get plenty of attention - see here. --Allemandtando (talk) 21:32, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
You know, to be honest I'm not convinced any of those articles are about encyclopedic topics. With all due respect to LGRdC and others who believe those articles are rescue worthy, articles that get tagged for rescue will only get rescued if individual members of ARS agree with the initial assessor and decide they want to put in the work to source, wikify and expand the articles. Personally, I'm not a big believer in putting too much fictional in world stuff on wikipedia because it tends to be relatively thin on third party sources. I'd rather save things like Anchor store, New Jersey School Report Card and GayNZ.com, to name some recent examples of rescued articles. I'd say, if you do want to try out an ARS perspective, don't blindly try to save articles you otherwise believe should be deleted. Instead, take a look at things as they get listed, find one or two that interest you, and hit up some databases to see what sources you can find and improvements you can make. Just as ARS isn't about stacking keep votes, it's also not about saving things that you don't think are encyclopedic. Look at the ARS list not as a definitive "this is encylopedic and should be saved" but rather as a helpful reference of some topics that others thought fit that criterion, and then apply your own judgment. From what I can tell, that's what the other ARSers do, and if you want to try looking at things the ARS way, that's what I'd recommend you do as well. Vickser (talk) 22:23, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Sure - It's unlikely that I'm going to become an inclusionist (as we define the term here) on the issue of a lot of the fictional articles but frankly my current course of action was going to lead to lots of drama and maybe this is a way of avoiding that - I have access to a lot of very good databases and sources and was an academic researcher before I decided I liked driving a real big car with really shitty mileage, so while I'm not going to be flapping around at AFD saying "keep! keep!" - it does mean that I might be able to find some RS that will keep a notable subject/and or article alive or indeed try and add some real world commentary or scholarly analysis to article where you might not expect to see it --Allemandtando (talk) 00:48, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I have listed Goge Vandire and Nero Vipus for deletion, and prodded Saul Tarvitz. Since I consider these as obsucere enough that I fail to imagine any secondary sources giving significant coverage. Taemyr (talk) 01:20, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


New project talkpage template

I've created a wikiproject permanent and talkpage template for us to go on articles created for this project - like our template and category pages. This isn't for Article to be rescued. Banjeboi 00:01, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Swimming with dolphins

Update. this one was saved! Woo-hoo! Banjeboi 12:01, 20 July 2008 (UTC)


AfD Questions

How come WP:AFD is within the scope of this project? I asked this question at WT:AFD and was directed to come here. Protonk (talk) 16:01, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

What do you think the ARS aspires to rescue articles from? Where do you think ARS volunteers devote their intention? The preceding questions were rhetorical, the antecedent is not: as an editor quite familiar with AfD and ARS, and who ought to understand the function of each, what is the motivation behind your question? Sincerely, Skomorokh 16:16, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
that's kind of snide. Sure my question was bent at an aim but you could have just said so instead of asking questions like that in response. I asked the question why rather than made the statement "I don't think it is appropriate for the ARS to declare AfD to be in the purview of the project" because I wasn't sure what the reasoning for the banner decision was. I didn't want to crap in someone's cornflakes only to find out that there was some really cool reason why.
but I'll try to answer your questions on face. Obviously ARS rescues articles from deletion (the template instructions make that explicit). Presumably ARS volunteers devote their attention to rescuing articles nominated for deletion. But WP:AFD is a process page. It isn't a project page. To me ARS is there to rectify errors made in deletion nominations by improving the article. The process itself and discussion therein are not related to the rescue squad any more than any process or policy page is. Protonk (talk) 16:32, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I apologize if I came off as snide, but the question did seem disingenuous. If you are wondering why the banner was placed, you could asked Benjiboy who added it. Wikiprojects routinely tag pages (including non-article pages) within their scope, and AfD is certainly seems within the scope of the ARS. The tag doesn't doe much except categorize the page; no big deal I figure. Is it the possibly territorial nature of the claim which worries you? There is consensus that WikiProjects don't need outside permission to tag pages they feel to be within their scope (a recentish ANI thread I think).Skomorokh 16:51, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm not so much looking to grant permission as much as I am looking for a reason. I'll ask benjiboi but I'm sure he'll (?) be along eventually to respond in this thread. Also, if this was a consensus decision someone else should be able to provide an affirmative reason. If not, I'm inclined to propose that the tag be removed. Protonk (talk) 17:15, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Tags don't need consensus or affirmative readings, this is overly dramatic I think. An project participant deemed a certain page to be within the remit of the project, and tagged it accordingly; this is how 99% of tagging takes place. Project tags are cheap and without negative ramifications (unless placed on irrelevant pages). Skomorokh 17:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I know. I'm not trying to stir up drama. I just don't think it is appropriate to be there but I'm happy to be told why I'm wrong. Protonk (talk) 17:32, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, not to speak for Benjiboy, but as the general mission of ARS is to rescue articles proposed for deletion (otherwise, it's not much of a "rescue"), I would think that AFD~=the scope of ARS. --Rindis (talk) 17:58, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I would tend to agree with Protonk here, it's extremely difficult to see how the project page WP:Articles for deletion, is within the scope of the project. Taemyr (talk) 20:31, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm a member of the ARS and actually also thought it was a little off-putting when I saw the tag up on AFD, for what it's worth. That said, it is vaguely connected, and I don't think it does any harm. While I wouldn't put it there myself, I don't think it's a particularly big deal one way or the other. Vickser (talk) 20:46, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
This project only exists because a number of editors here seem to believe that the AfD process is flawed, being abused or most likely both. Likewise a number of editors feel AfD is clean-up; appropriate instead of tagging for clean-up, fixing it themselves or otherwise improving articles through regular editing which the AfD says should occur. I believe it still says that "if an article can be improved through regular editing, it is not a good candidate for AfD." Agree that there are many borderline cases but we aren't seeing a lot of thoughtful discussions prior to AfD, instead the vast majority are simply nominated and too often AfD becomes a battleground which makes editing here unpleasant. Outside our wikiverse are regular reports and examples how people get around what they see as deletionism or simply note the fighting. Quite a few articles are deleted not because they aren't notable content but because too few people are putting out AfD fires and there seems little let-up in this flow. Unless the AfD process starts requiring more rigorous steps be followed; like editors go through a few steps to verify that they have made even a cursory search for sources (see Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Fag stag for example), that editors demonstrate that they have engaged to discuss their concerns in addition to slapping a tag, like notifying wikiprojects on each article, then we are going to be here for a while. As for the project tag I feel it's totally appropriate, we exist solely because the AfD process isn't working for various reasons. If there is a "Delete the Cruft Wikiproject" I would support them having their tag as well. We're all here to improve Misplaced Pages and have different styles of doing so. Anyone willing to improve the AfD process so this project no longer has any articles to rescue would seem like a good thing to me. Banjeboi 21:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) My 2 cents We, as article rescuers have an inherent requirement to be aware of what's in AfD. We may be the final liferaft for those articles. We may edit the during their time in AfD, and bring them up to par. For that reason alone, AfD falls under the scope of ARS. We don't OWN it, we don't SPONSOR it, we're just AWARE of it. I'm note sure why the connection isn't obvious. But hey, then again, I'm Canadian :-) BMW(drive) 21:35, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I think I have a different impression of what the ARS is meant to do. Delete the cruft wikiprojects have been rejected by the community (at MfD's) as canvassing projects. Likewise if this becomes a project motivated by the impression that the AfD process is fundamentally broken such that worthwhile articles are deleted regularly, we should look to dissolving it as well. I won't press this issue further because I'm unlikely to convince you that the AfD process functions reasonably well and I don't have the fight in me to argue about it for pages. Suffice it to say, if your understanding of the purpose of ARS is to fix the "broken" AfD process I think it might seem a tad polemical to put the ARS tag over WT:AFD. Protonk (talk) 21:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
While I would not have added the tag on that page (I actually think the relationship is the other way around), I feel a need to respond to this. Are you suggesting that articles about encyclopedic subjects are not deleted as a result of the current process on a regular basis? No minimum time beofre nomination, no requirement for nominators to at least have tried to fix the article by editing it, no need to show that policy and not guidelines are violated as a legitimate reason for deletion. The process may not be broken, but it is certainly bent. There are numerous examples of ARS doing exactly what every editor should strive to do - compile and preserve properly sourced and written articles on every subject that can have an article written about it. You write above that any project based on the idea that AfD doesn't work should be eliminated for pointing out that opinion. I have to disagree. It is a valid opinion, and eliminating the dissidents is not the way to deal with the issue. Jim Miller (talk) 22:10, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
In a word, yes. I'm suggesting that the "failure rate" (here only considering false positives) is much lower than we guess anecdotally. I've made this argument at WT:AFD but I'll repeat it here (shorter, I promise) for clarity. There are strong structural and procedural safeguards against deletion of a compliant article. The AfD is open to all and available from a central location. the AfD lasts five days (honestly more than enough time). The nominator must present an affirmative case for deletion (or, barring that, a commenter must). Benefit of the doubt leans toward the article. Review exists for process problems. These are non-trivial protections against deletion. If you don't believe me watch what happens when an article that meats WP:N/V/NOR gets nominated (happens all the time). The usual result is a snow keep. NOW, if you mean notable topics, I'm sure that happens. That also doesn't worry me. If a topic is potentially notable but the article doesn't have sources and no one in five days gets off their ass to look for sources, I don't have a problem with deleting the topic. Once someone clicks that red link and creates an article that meets policies and guidelines it is good to go. As for the merits of the project, I agree with you specifically. The goal of the ARS should be the goal of all editors: to improve articles so they can be retained. However that goal has nothing to do with treating the AfD process as adversarial, which seems to be the case here.
You mention this: "You write above that any project based on the idea that AfD doesn't work should be eliminated for pointing out that opinion. I have to disagree. It is a valid opinion, and eliminating the dissidents is not the way to deal with the issue." I'm not sure that is a fair characterization of my opinion. I noted that "fancruft" projects were rightly rejected by the community because they were effectively canvassing efforts aimed at deleting content. I then moved on to note that projects whose primary goals are to treat a community process as fundamentally flawed and thus (presumably) to work against it ought to be treated with suspicion. Some projects are very helpful, but some are not. If the ARS turns into a project that treats AfD as hostile and pushes for a practice of broad standards of inclusion through AfD debate, there is a serious issue at stake. ARS should work on the presumption that AfD is working fine but lacks editors willing to provide sources. in other words, you should be able to assume that articles deleted that have your badge would have been saved but for lack of effort. What I'm seeing here are editors who feel that articles which have had sufficient effort put into them are being deleted anyway. That's not a problem. That opinion isn't my concern. I'm not interested in eliminating the dissidents. I'm interested in the reasoning behind the banner addition to WT:AFD and the responses are certainly intriguing. Protonk (talk) 22:51, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I didn't mean to suggest that this project exists to fix AfD but that this project exists because AfD is not working quite right. If AfD is fixed to the point that this project is no longer useful because articles that shouldn't be deleted aren't then I would move on to what I was doing before - building and improving articles. Frankly the problem may be even further upstream where new articles need to be vetted with a minimum of content and sourcing by more experienced editors before even seeing the light of day. I doubt such a system will be readily embraced but it may curb much of the problem as we are amongst an article's very last chance. Banjeboi 23:03, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I think a big part of the problem is that the tag says that AfD is under the "scope" of the ARS, which is a bit disingenuous. AfD is a community process. This, more or less, is a WikiProject specializing in improving articles at AfD. Saying that a community process is under the scope of a WikiProject implies that AfD is part of ARS, regardless of what the original intention was. If the tag was changed, then I think that would resolve some of the problems here (perhaps say that the ARS participates in AfD or similar). Note that I'm not saying the ARS is a bad thing; on the contrary, I think it's a good venture to possibly improve would-be-deleted articles, but the tag itself probably should be modified. sephiroth bcr 01:20, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Good point. Our tag is based on other wikiproject tags so that particular wording is widely in use. Certainly tweaking the grammar a bit could help here though. I'll have a look at some other wikiproject tags and see if there is some more NPOV wording. Banjeboi 19:12, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Lol. well that didn't take too long! Quite a few do use "within the scope of _____", others use "___ is a part of _____", a third option seems to be "supported by _____". I'm not sure any of these is terrific but does anyone have suggestions of what may work better? If not I'm inclined to simply switch to "supported by" as being the least problematic towards this issue. Banjeboi 19:19, 25 July 2008 (UTC)