This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 66.99.1.118 (talk) at 21:44, 19 September 2005 (→Tolkien). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 21:44, 19 September 2005 by 66.99.1.118 (talk) (→Tolkien)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)Aug 22, 05: I'd like to contact Benjamin to ask if he has done any Mormon studies writing in the Spanish language. If you see this and know his email address can you please pass my interest on to him or ask him to contact me? (if you click on my user name and select "email this user" you can contact me). Stirling
This looks like a vanity page to me. Goethian, you seem to have worked a bit on it — was your work purely editorial, or do you have any sources for information on this guy? When I google, the only hits I get are wikipedia or generated from wikipedia. Slrubenstein | Talk
You must be doing something wrong, then, because anybody else who googles Benjamin Urrutia gets a long list of page after page of hits, most of which have nothing to do with Misplaced Pages.
- I don't know what this whole article is about. It also looks like a vanity page to me.
- This cannot be a "Vanity Page" - several different people have added to it, edited it, revised, reworked and rewritten it.
- Also, if it were "vanity' IT WOULD HAVE A LOT MORE ABOUT THE LIFE OF Benjamin Urrutia, AND A MUCH LONGER LIST OF HIS PUBLICATIONS. --anonymous comment by 66.99.0.124
This person mentioned on the article, he's not even that famous. I mean, why not create articles about other Ecuadorians who are way more famous than this man here? For example, there are a lot of famous Ecuadorian politicians who are not even mentioned on Misplaced Pages, but this person here deserves to have a whole article? He's not even that famous. 2004-12-29T22:45Z 19:51, August 22, 2005 (UTC) -Do you mean we need fewer scholars and more politicians?
Should we delete all the less-famous scholars to make room for more politicians?
If the article were "vanity" it would have a lot more about Urrutia's life, and a much longer list of publications. Verifiability of the article content is in question. Externals sources required. mikka (t) 18:14, 23 August 2005 (UTC) See below under "Googling."
It is true that Benjamin Urrutia is not very famous, but the books and articles he has written and published are all there. Not all have been posted on the internet, but they all exist in print.
Ecuadorian politicians for the most part have caused nothing but misery and suffering to the Ecuadorian people.
It is an outrageous viewpoint that politicians deserve being in Encyclopedias more than scholars and writers.
When I Google, I get an enormous list of mentions of Benjamin Urrutia.
It makes a big difference whether you use the Spanish spelling with a tilde on the i or the English spelling without the tilde. However, it is the same person.
Certainly anyone who has been published in the Publications of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, in American Antrhopologist, in Man, in the Journal of Human Evolution, in Mythlore, deserves to be in Misplaced Pages.
It is a fact that Benjamin Urrutia was the first person ever to translate the Spengler Module, which no one before him had been able to translate. His translation has not been disputed in all this time; it is unquestionably correct.
If we delete scholars who are not famous in their own lifetime, we have to delete Gregor Mendel, whose work on genetics was not recognized for forty years after he published it.
As far as anyone knows, Benjamin Urrutia has published nothing in his native language, Spanish, other than a couple of letters to the editor.
- Not true! His book of poetry, Slanted Glory/Gloria Oblicua, is a bilingual work, with every poem both in English and in Spanish. --anonymous comment by 66.99.0.124
Benjamin Urrutia participated in archaeological excavations in both Ecuador and Israel.
It is true that The Logia of Yeshua was never a bestseller and did not have any major impact, but those who have read it can testify that it is a wonderful little book. More people should know about it.
The attack smells to me of religious bigotry against Latter-day Saints, ethnic bigotry against Hispanics, or both.
Maybe Urrutia is not so famous now, in spite of his four books and hundreds of shorter pieces, but who knows, he may get more famous in the future.
Instead of deleting, expand the article to include Benjamin Urrutia's accomplishments as missionary and soldier.
I know Ben very well, and I can testify that his computer is only a word processor without Internet access. He does not send or receive e-mail. Never has and probably never will. He's an old-fashioned kind of scholar and poet.
It's not about the man, it's about the ideas. B. Urrutia has very important and interesting ideas.
Certainly his notion of Jesus as a Leader of Nonviolent Resistance is one the world needs to hear.
Maybe the hostility against him is due to this idea, not to his ethnicity or obscurity,
Yes, the ad hominem attack is just an excuse to persecute the idea. For months the article stood unchallanged, but as soon as information about the Leadership of Jesus in Nonviolent Jewish Resistance was added, the attack began.
- Maybe there are anti-Semites out there who strongly object to seeing Jesus as a Jewish leader.
Many Presidents of Ecuador in the second half of the 20th century were crooks or madmen or both.
- The very fact that his ideas are so little-known is all the more reason to help disseminate them, not to suppress them. They are interesting, original and provocative ideas, whether you agree with them or not. And he gets his facts right.
- Does anybody really think it's a good idea to delete original and provocative ideas to make room for more biographies of politicians?
What turns up on Google
I did a big of Googling, and followed some of the links I found, and, ignoring WP mirrors, this is what I've come up with:
- The Logia of Yeshua
- Another link about the same book, including a brief description of Urrutia quoted from the book itself
- More links about The Logia of Yeshua (some not entirely complimentary, but the work seems to be sufficiently important that a number of people have seen fit to comment on it):
- A list of religious scifi, which includes a number of titles by Urrutia (et al.) more links of this sort:
- Mormon publications to which Urrutia has contributed are listed at:
This is just from the first two pages of hits... He isn't sufficiently noteworthy that he's made it onto my radar, but he's certainly made it onto a number of other peoples'... Tomer 23:15, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
A modest proposal
How about adding some External Links to the main article?
VfD
Survived Misplaced Pages:Votes for deletion/Benjamín Urrutia. mikka (t) 23:28, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
- A bit of discussion to address two issues brought up in the VfD discussion:
- According to my understanding, Urrutia is called a translator in discussion of The Logia of Yeshua because of his rôle in translating the "logia" from Greek, not because he translated The Logia of Yeshua from some other language.
- From what I've read, the guy writes in English, from the US, not in Spanish, so that should go a long way toward explaining why there are so few Google hits for him (a) in Spanish language articles and (b) in Google Ecuador. Tomer 00:04, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
Tolkien
Benjamin Urrutia has written a large number of articles on Tolkien, but only one of them appears in the Bibliography in the article. He has written a few but important articles on French Structuralist anthropologist Claude Levi-Strauss, and none of them are listed in the article's bibliography. The article and its bibliography are very much in need of expansion. --anonymous comment by 66.99.1.126
The External Links section should also be expanded.+
LDSF
my source for adding biblio entries that Mikkalai deleted:
--goethean ॐ 18:49, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
An encyclopedic bibliographic list usually includes major works of a person. Being an editor is hardly an important contribution to be mentioned. But if the guy has nothing better and barely survives VfD for notability reaosns, I am OK with it, if you insit so. By "Source" I mean exact printing data, preferrably ISBN. But my main objection was includion of "Slanted Glory" with no traces whatsoever. mikka (t) 21:17, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
- That's a good point. I'm not terribly invested in the LDSF material being listed here, although our anonymous editor seems to be. --goethean ॐ 21:32, 15 September 2005 (UTC)