Talk:Armorial of sovereign states

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by BJBot (talk | contribs) at 03:10, 1 November 2008 (BJBot, removed Image:Proposal Coat of arms of RM.png per WP:NFCC#9). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 03:10, 1 November 2008 by BJBot (talk | contribs) (BJBot, removed Image:Proposal Coat of arms of RM.png per WP:NFCC#9)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

Heraldry and vexillology List‑class

	Heraldry portal Armorial of sovereign states is within the scope of the Heraldry and vexillology WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of heraldry and vexillology. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.Heraldry and vexillologyWikipedia:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillologyTemplate:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillologyheraldry and vexillology
List	This article has been rated as List-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

This article was nominated for deletion on 15 April 2008. The result of the discussion was keep and move to Gallery of country coats of arms.

First section

what about the principality of sealand

Shouldn't this be at List of national coats of arms? RickK

I think so, hence I moved it. Scurra 16:12, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Shouldn't it actually be at Gallery of national coats of arms? JPD (talk) 14:31, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

It will be completely matched with what is done to flags (there gonna be 2 pages). Just give me some time. Renata3 18:21, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Ok, the page is moved. Now need to create the same thing for not sovereign states. Any volunteers? ;) Renata3 23:29, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Russia

Ehm, Russia's appears to be too big. New Russian domination coming here? Buzoo 02:23, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

South Africa

Just a question... What happened to South Africa's COA? Thfump (talk) 15:41, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

American Samoa

Why is this linked to externally? Are there copyright issues? Would it look out of step? --Oldak Quill 22:18, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)

So are the Marshall Islands and others may be too, but i haven't checked-- Swalesy 23:36 12 Sept 2004 (UTC)

Repitition

Some of the lists repeat. It goes from A-G and then back to A again and so forth. Can somebody who knows what they're doing fix it?

Matching

Do you think the list here should match what is listed at List of national flags and Gallery of national flags? Zscout370 (talk) 18:57, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Link of individual articles

This article should provide links to the individual CoA articles, like Federal Coat of Arms of Germany or Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom. --Ji ang 08:40, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm planning to do this. Curently in the process of making uniform redirects -- Obradović Goran (tak 9 July 2005 19:12 (UTC)

Taiwan

We should link to Taiwan because the picture posted here is the National Emblem of the Republic of China, not the National Emblem of Taiwan. No one calls it the "National Emblem of Taiwan" in Chinese. Linking to Taiwan will confuse people since the political entity from which this emblem arises is not the subject of the Taiwan article. --Ji ang 22:35, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

England, Scotland and Wales

Not sure whether theses should be in the list, I added England and Wales as Scotland was here. Maybe sublists for subnational entities is required as on the list of national flags--Kurando 09:01, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Moving everything to gallery and deleting Palau note

I moved everything into gallery format because the old table looked really badly ugly. Want to keep table - revert. And I was also forced to delete a note about Palau. There is no file for their COA, there was just a link to outside website that showed something similar to the COA (full message: Palau This is the Exectutive Seal, but is close in form to the National Arms). Renata3 22:49, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Links to commons:National insignia

There should be an effort here to improve the organisation of Misplaced Pages by trying to use some standardization and also to provide better multilingual resources. I would suggest to replace all the links in this table with those to commons:National insignia. I suppose that some more cleanup would be necessary e.g. regarding infoboxes in coutry articles etc. Andreas 18:46, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Differences with commons:National insignia

I think we should use the same image files as in commons:National insignia. I have compiled three lists that show the differences between these two data bases until now. A very sensible thing would be to delete this article (as well as the corresponding flag article) and create a mirror to the commons:National insignia article and make all changes there, so that there would be much less hassle to maintainance. Andreas 19:38, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Nope, commons is not a place for any sort of articles. It's like a central place to store images. It's a good idea to replace images on this page with the images from commons and delete these ones. But surely not deleting this article. Renata3 21:12, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Coa in commons but not here

These are not sovereign states and don't belong here, nor in commons. Andreas 01:04, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Image:Aruba coa large.jpg|Coat of arms of Aruba
Image:Coat of arms of British Virgin Islands.png|Coat of arms of British Virgin Islands
Image:Falkland Islands coat of arms (British).png|Coat of arms of the Falkland Islands
Image:Vedrur.png|Coat of Arms of the Faroes
Image:Guam COA.png|Coat of arms of Guam

This was because the list was ill-defined as "national" coats of arms. As you've made into it sovereign states only I have created a sub-list for UK overseas territories. --KURANDO 11:54, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Coa here but not in commons

Note: there seems to be copyright problems when moving these to commons. see the discussion page of commons:National insignia.

Image:Coaafghanistan.jpg
Image:Algeria_coa.png
Image:Andorra_coa.png
Image:Argentina_coa.png
Image:Barbados_coa.png
Image:Belgium_coat_of_arms_small.png
Image:Belize_coa.png
Image:Bhutan_emblem.png
Image:BoliviaArms.gif
Image:Bostwanaarms22.PNG
Image:Bulgaria_coa.png
Image:Burkinaarms22.PNG
Image:Coa cambodia.jpg
Image:Bigcancoat.png
Image:Capeverdearms22.PNG
Image:Colombia_coa.png
Image:Comoros_coat_of_arms_small.gif
Image:CostaRica_coa.jpg
Image:Coa cote d ivory.jpg
Image:Croatia_coat_small.png
Image:Cuba_coa.png
Image:Cyprus_Coat_of_Arms.png
Image:ZaireCoat.png
Image:Denmark_coa.png
Image:Dj).jpg
Image:Dominica23.PNG
Image:Dominican_republic_coa.gif
Image:East_timor_coa.png
Image:Ecuador COA.jpg
Image:Coat of arms of Egypt.png
Image:El Salvador coa.gif
Image:Equaarms22.PNG
Image:Fij-coa.gif
Image:Georgian_COA.jpg
Image:Grenadaarms22.PNG
Image:Guineaarms23.PNG
Image:Coaguinea-bissau.jpg
Image:Guyana_coa.png
Image:Haiti_coat_of_arms.png
Image:Honduras_COA.gif
Image:ISLcoat.gif
Image:EmblemofIndia-small.png
Image:Indonesiacoatofarms.jpg
Image:Iran_coa.png
Image:Ireland_coa.png
Image:Israel-coa-medium.png
Image:Italian_coa.png
Image:Jamaica coat medium.gif
Image:Japan_coa.png
Image:Hashemitearms.jpg
Image:Kenyaarms22.PNG
Image:Kiribaticoa.gif
Image:Kyrgyziarms.gif
Image:Laos_coa.png
Image:Lebanese_COA.png
Image:Lesothoarms22.PNG
Image:Lib-coa.png
Image:Libyseal.gif
Image:Liechtenstein_coa.png
Image:Coat of Arms Lithuania.gif
Image:Luxarmslarge.jpg
Image:Macau coa.png
Image:Madagascar_COA.png
Image:Malawiarms20.PNG
Image:Malaysia_Coat_of_Arms_small.jpg
Image:Maldives-emblem.gif
Image:Maliarms22.PNG
Image:Malta_coa.png
Image:Marshall_Islands_COA.gif
Image:maurarms22.PNG
Image:Mauritius_coa.png
Image:Mexico CoA.png
Image:Micronesie_COA.gif
Image:Mda_coa.gif
Image:Monaco_coa.png
Image:Suld.gif
Image:Montserrat coa.png
Image:morarms22.PNG
Image:Mozambique_COA.png
Image:Namibia_coa.png
Image:Nauru_coa.png
Image:Nepal_COA.gif
Image:Nl-arms.gif
Image:New_zealand_coa.png
Image:Nigerarms22.PNG
Image:Nigeriaarms22.PNG
Image:North_korea_coa.png
Image:Khanjar.gif
Image:Pakistan emblem.jpg
Image:Escudo_armas_Panama.PNG
Image:PapuaNewGuinea_coa.png
Image:Philippine_coat-of-arms.png
Image:Pitcairn coa.png
Image:Portugal_coa.png
Image:CoatofarmsPR.jpg
Image:Qatar_coa.png
Image:Congocofarms2.PNG
Image:Russia_coa.png
Image:Rwandaflag3.PNG
Image:skitts22.PNG
Image:Smarino.jpg
Image:Saoprinarms22.PNG
Image:Saudi coa.jpg
Image:Senegal_coa.png
Image:Seychelles_coa.png
Image:SLECOA.gif
Image:Symbol_crest.png
Image:Solomon Islands coat of arms.gif
Image:Somalia Stemma.jpg
Image:South_korea_coa.png
Image:Sri_lanka_coa.png
Image:Sudan_coa.png
Image:Suriname_coa.png
Image:Swazicoa.jpg
Image:Sweden_arms_small.gif
Image:Switzerland_CoA.png
Image:Syrlogo.jpg
Image:Coa tajikistan.jpg
Image:Tanzanian Coat of Arms.png
Image:Tongaarms22.PNG
Image:Armes_tunisie.jpg
Image:Turkey coat of arms.png
Image:Turkmenistan coa.jpg
Image:Turksandcaicoscoa.gif
Image:Tuvalu-coa.jpg
Image:NationalArmsofUAE.png
Image:UK_Royal_Coat_of_Arms.png
Image:Uzbekistan coa.png
Image:Vanuatu_coat_of_arms.jpg
Image:Vatican_coa.png
Image:Lambang_sahara_barat.png
Image:Yemencoa.jpg
Image:Zambian_Coat_of_Arms.png
Image:Zimbabwe Coat of Arms Hi.png

coa that are different here than in commons

Note: some cao are labeled "emblems" here but not in commons here is how they are in commons:

Image:Albania_state_emblem.png|Coat of arms of Albania
Image:Coat of Arms Angola.jpg|Coat of arms of Angola
Image:Antigua and Barbuda coat of arms.jpg|Coat of Arms of Antigua and Barbuda
Image:Armenia-coa.png|Coat of arms of Armenia
Image:Aust_Coat_of_Arms_(large).jpg|Coat of arms of Australia
Image:Austria coa.gif|Coat of arms of Austria
Image:Azerbaijan coa.png|Coat of Arms of Azerbaijan
Image:Bahamas coat of arms.jpg|Coat of Arms of the Bahamas
Image:Coa bahrain small.jpg|Coat of arms of Bahrain
Image:Bangladesh coa.png|Coat of Arms of Bangladesh
Image:Belarus coa.png|Coat of Arms of Belarus
Image:Benin.gif|Coat of Arms of Benin
Image:Bosnia and Herzegovina Coats of Arms.png|Coat of Arms of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Image:Coat of Brasil.png|Seal of Brasilian Republic
Image:Brunei coa.jpg|Coat of Arms of Brunei
Image:Coa_burundi.jpg|Coat of Arms of Burundi
Image:Cameroon_coa.jpg|Coat of Arms of Cameroon
Image:Centralaf22.png|Coat of Arms of the Central African Republic
Image:Chad_coa.jpg|Coat of Arms of Chad
Image:Chile COA.jpg|Coat of arms of Chile
Image:Coat of arms of the Czech Republic.png|Coat of arms of the Czech Republic
Image:Eritrea COA-color.jpg|Coat of arms of Eritrea
Image:Estonia_coatofarms.png|Coat of arms of Estonia
Image:Ethiopia coa large.png|Coat of arms of Ethiopia
Image:Finland coa.png|Coat of arms of Finland
Image:France coa.png|Coat of arms of France
Image:GabonArms.png|Coat of arms of Gabon
Image:Bundesadler.png|Coat of arms of Germany (called "Bundesadler")
Image:Ghanaarms23.PNG|Coat of arms of Ghana
Image:Greece_coa.png|Coat of arms of Greece
Image:Guatemala coa.png|Coat of arms of Guatemala
Image:Hungary-coa.jpg|Coat of arms of Hungary
Image:Iraq-COA.png|Coat of arms of Iraq
Image:Kazakh_coa.png|Kazakh coat of arms
Image:KUW-coat.gif|Coat of arms of Kuwait
Image:Latvia coa.png|Coat of arms of Latvia
Image:Myanmar COA.gif|Coat of arms of Myanmar
Image:Nl-arms.gif|Coat of arms of the Netherlands
Image:Nicaragua-coa.jpg|Coat of arms of Nicaragua
Image:Norwegian COA redyellow.250px.png|Coat of arms of Norway
Image:Paraguay coa.png|Coat of arms of Paraguay
Image:China guohui.png|Coat of arms of the People's Republic of China
Image:Escudo nacional del Perú.png|Coat of arms of Peru
Image:Herb Polski.png|Coat of arms of Poland
Image:SR Macedonia coa.png|Coat of arms of Macedonia
Image:Romania Coat of Arms.png|Coat of Arms of Romania
Image:St lucia coa.png|Coat of Arms of St. Lucia
Image:Svincent22.png|Coat of Arms of St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Image:Coat of Arms of Samoa.png|Coat of Arms of Samoa
Image:Coat of arms of Serbia and Montenegro.png|Coat of Arms of Serbia and Montenegro
Image:Slovakia Coat of Arms.png|Slovak coat of arms
Image:Slovenia Coat of Arms.png|Slovenian coat of arms
Image:Za-coa.png|South African coat of arms
Image:Escudo de España.png|Coat of arms of Spain
Image:Wappen von Taiwan.png|Coat of arms of Taiwan
Image:Thai Garuda.png|Garuda: Coat of arms of Thailand
Image:Gambia Wappen.png|Coat of arms of Gambia
Image:Togcoa.jpg|Coat of arms of Togo
Image:Coat of arms Trinidad and Tobago.jpg|Coat of arms of Trinidad and Tobago
Image:Uganda Coat of Arms large.jpg|Coat of Arms of Uganda
Image:Ukraine coa.png|Coat of Arms of Ukraine
Image:Great Seal of the US.png|Great Seal of the United States, converse
Image:Uruguay coa.png|Coat of arms of Uruguay
Image:Venezuela coat of arms.png|Coat of arms of Venezuela
Image:Vietnam-coa.png|Vietnamese coat of arms

Unprotecting

Seeing as how things have calmed down over the last two days, I'll unprotect this and see if the vandalism starts up again. howch e ng {chat} 21:41, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

To the user who removes the 2 coa:

is there a way to setlle this without bloodshed? Can we talk? Please? Renata 08:58, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

To Renata3 Actually I have stated my arguments in your personal talking page several days ago. De-facto independent state is NOT a sovereign state. There IS a special separate list for the de-facto states' flags and emblems, which I had never touched. A part of my country should not be listed in the sovereign states' list between Spain and South Africa. It's the same as if Vilnius and it's region were shown in Misplaced Pages as part of Poland. This is an absolute nonsence and as a citizen of my country I'm obliged to prevent (if I can) spreading of this totally false information about my country among the great number of people, who visit Misplaced Pages. "Here I stand and I can do no other" (c) :) Neuzheli to chto ya govoru, tebia sovershenno ne trogaet i tebe ne poniatno??

Ok, but do you understand that this page is not political? If you want to remove those two entries, you should go and argue on talk page of List of sovereign states. There is a definition of this page: everything included on that list is included here. Personally, I have no opinion wheather SO & A should be included or not, I let people on List of sovereign states decide. Summary, it is a WRONG place to make political comments. Renata 18:10, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't make any political comments actualy.

I just claim, that in the list, which is named exactly "Coats of arms of sovereign states" there should be coats of arms of the sovereign states only. Othervise, it's factually incorrect. And I don't want information about my country on such a popular Web-resource, as Misplaced Pages is, to be factually incorrect and misleading.

Ok, political comments/claims/statements/discussions/batlles/etc do not belong HERE. This page is unpolitical. How come you are not removing those two entries from List of sovereign states? I do not follow your logic. Renata 21:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Again, I dont make any political comments/claims/statements/discussions/batlles/etc. As to the List of sovereign states,look carefully at the page. There are NO those two entries in the list which is under "The Sovereign States" name.

That is because User:Geodave removed it (my wild guess - you) and there was nobody to revert. Now you cannot just decide and remove whatever you don't like. There is this thing called consensus. Start a vote on the talk page of the list and maybe you'll be lucky. Such undiscussed removals are called vandalism. And so far you have not been blocked, but you might be. Get a consensus to remove those two, and I will be reverting whoever wants to include them. Renata 23:41, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, first of all "undiscussed removals" are NOT called vandalism. Why don't you read your own Misplaced Pages definition of vandalism??? http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Vandalism

Most likely, your actions could qualify under sneaky vandalism: Vandalism which is harder to spot. Adding misinformation, changing dates or making other sensible-appearing substitutions and typos. You have edited this page, the list, and the gallery of flags and have not notified anybody. Now, I am not looking for faults and etc. I am looking here for a solution. Your actions are objectonable. You are changing pages just because you don't like it and you ignore the compromises that were reached on talk pages. That is not good. Renata 05:49, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I am not adding misinformation, to the contrary, I am removing misinformation. It is not about what i like or what I dislike, it is about SIMPLE, OBVIOUS FACTS. By the way, that strange and probably politically motivated addition of the separatist regions to the list of sovereign states (!) was heavily disputed, and NO COMPROMISE was reached. Check the List of sovereign states discussion boards an you will see. Actually, as I saw, people who objected that extremely strange addition were not Georgians, but neutral persons from other countries. So there was no compromise about the matter, but nevertheless somebody (probably with admin's authority) decided that constituent parts of the states with internationally recognized borders should be equated with sovereign states, which is an absolute nonesense and breathes on Misplaced Pages's reputation. I repeat for the third time, that compromise about the matter was NOT reached, which you can see if you give a glance at those discussion boards. So it is not me, who breaks the rules, it is somebody, who makes decisions there. He has an authority though, that's the difference. From my side, I'm obliged to correct misleading information about my country.

Sorry for delay. Well, your "simple, obvious facts" are not so simple. I am not getting involved in mataphysical discussion who supported what and for what reasons. The fact is that this article (and others) had a very clear definition of what is included. You came here, declared that all this is wrong and messed up the definition. Now if you want to re-define the article - be my guest. Start a new discussion, reach a consensus, and be happy. (what don't you understand about this?) You cannot come here and just remove two states (for ANY reasons) without any discussions. It is not how wiki works. You cannot just come and decide that it is all wrong. And by the way, "who makes decisions here" is the community. Renata 05:33, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, I have said all I could say about this matter here. Simple and obvious fact is that under the name "Sovereign States" there should be sovereign states. I can't imagine, what you don't understand about this.

I perfectly understand. But you don't understand the way WP works. I am not judging if you are right or wrong, I am judging your actions that are against WP policies, traditions, etc. Reopen the discussions, reach consensus, and I will be reverting anybody who wants to include SO & A. Renata 15:42, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Well... I will be grateful if you wait at least untill the matter is finally decided on the List of Sovereign states page. In one way or another.

Huh? What do you mean? I am not sure if I understood you here. Renata 04:49, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I mean your "reverts" of course.

I would appreciate it if you would wait as well, instead of continuously blanking information you don't like. I'll put a {{Disputeabout}} template on the article. I hope that is a good enough compromise for as long as the status of South Ossetia and Abkhazia are under discussion. Aecis 11:11, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Publication of false information is intolerabel. It is not about what I like. It is about simple facts. If you disagree, go to the List of sovereign states discussion page and lay out your arguments. And please stop posting false information here.

Oh please, give me a break. The information is neither true nor false. The dispute concerns in how far the criteria for sovereign states apply to Abkhazia and South Ossetia. This is an interpretative difference, it's not as easy as right (2+2=4) or wrong (2+2=5). I won't go so far as to call your blankings vandalism, but I will call it disruption. And I would like to ask you to stop removing Abkhazia and South Ossetia from this list for the duration of this discussion and keep the article the way it was before the dispute started. Aecis 18:07, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

There are things, which are not disputable. One of such things is that Sovereign State is sovereign. The idea of sovereignty automatically means that this state is not part of another state. If some territory is part of another state, it means that this territory is not a sovereign state. If you don't understand anything else on this matter, I will explain it once more. But I would ask you to stop adding false information on this page. Go to the List of sovereign states talking page and list your arguments there. What you are doing here (deliberately adding false information) is a real vandalizm by Misplaced Pages standards. Please stop it.

I do wish you would refrain from accusing others of vandalism. Please don't let your emotions get in the way of this discussion. The problem is that sovereignty isn't as easy as you make it seem. As the sovereignty article explains, many states have both de jure sovereignty (the legal control over a certain territory) and de facto sovereignty (the actual power to exercise that legal control). However, there are still a lot of states where either one is missing. One of the cases would be Georgia, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, where non-independent entities exercise power over a certain territory, to which they are perhaps legally not entitled, whereas the independent country that is legally entitled to the exercise of power over that territory is not able, for whatever reason, to do so. The best example would be Taiwan. Legally speaking, the territory falls under the authority of Beijing, but Beijing does not hold any physical power over the island; that rests with the authorities in Taipei, who in turn, technically speaking, do not have the legal power to do what they are doing, since they have not been recognized by the international community. Aecis 19:14, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Comparison with the Taiwan is totally incorect. The idea of sovereignty is that no power other than the sovereign state's power itslef is executed over a certain territory. If the territory is a constituent part of another state, it cannot be a sovereign state itself, becouse it cannot execute the sovereignty over the territory. It is constituent part of another state, which executes sovereignty itself.

That is but one view on sovereignty. And while it may be more or less true or realistic than other views on sovereignty, it is not up to wikipedia, or any other encyclopedia, to favour one view on sovereignty over the other. The neutral point of view is vital to any encyclopedia, and I can't say that you have been very neutral in this dispute. Fact of the matter is that the de facto authority of the governments in Sokhumi and Tskhinvali is consistent with at least some interpretations of the concept of sovereignty. Whether Abkhazia and South Ossetia are constituent parts of another country is irrelevant in this. Yours is only one view on sovereignty, and it's not up to wikipedia to choose that view, or any other view in particular. It is up to the community here to write this article in such a way that it is a reasonable, well-defined, well thought through interpretation of the physical dimensions of the existing notions on sovereignty. That will automatically include clear-cut cases and less clear-cut cases. Aecis 19:14, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

So the problem is that you defend one view on the idea of sovereignty, which dates back to 1933, when there was no UN and no International Law in it's modern sense. It's 2006 today.

Have you got a more recent definition from an equally authoritative source? (After all, Misplaced Pages is not a publisher of original thought) Aecis 19:35, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, get any book on International Law and read the definiton of sovereignty there. Everything will become clear at once. Now, after we have reached the consensus about the structure of the List of sovereign states page, the structure of this page should be changed correspondingly, so that people who read it don't get a false information, that Transnistria or South Osetia have the same official status as the United Kingdom or Australia. I hope, you agree with me at least on this matter (that this page should follow List of sovereign states page)?

You want the definition changed, so you provide an alternative definition. The burden of proof is on you, not on me (I know that doing so can be a bit hard in the evening). Simply saying that the current definition doesn't fit is not enough. Aecis 20:22, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't have to prove anything, as this page automaticly follows the List of sovereign states page. Provide an alternative definition? Well can't you just look at the List of sovereign states page (which is a result of a compromise)?? First there are listed Internationally Recognized States in an alphabetical order, below it there are listed Unrecognized or Partially Recognized States, also in alphabetical order. Thats it.

Yes, you have to provide an alternative to the current definition. You had a problem with it, noone else. You felt it was outdated, noone else. You thought we needed a more up-to-date definition, noone else. You wanted it changed, noone else. And if you want something done, I'm not gonna do it for you. Aecis 20:43, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

You have started talking too emotionally. Now, I am finally tired of your lies. You have been writing everywhere today, that I am the only one who has such an opinion and nobody agrees with me. While anybody, who comes to the List of sovereign states talk page can see, that you are not in majority really and other established editors agree with me, not with you. I tried to find another term instead of lie, but there is no other term for what you are doing. Now, if you don't want to carry out your function of a Misplaced Pages established editor, and if you want me or somebody else to edit this page so that it will correspond to the List of sovereign states, you should unprotect this page. Which you probably won't do:) To say the truth, your actions are somehow irrational.^)

I have asked you on your talk page to prove my alleged lies/untruths, and I have asked it on Misplaced Pages:Requests for page protection. I will now ask it again: where have I lied? Where have I said things that weren't true? Perhaps there are more people in here with your opinion, but they haven't spoken out. Of the people who have spoken out, noone has shared your view. I've said it before: John Kenney came with a proposal that you agreed with (not vice versa), while koavf's position was so broad that your narrow position almost accidentally happened to be covered by it as well. On the articles involved, no less than seven people (Randwicked, Nightstallion, Renata3, Shocktm, Chanheigeorge, P Ingerson and me) have reverted your removal of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. That should have been an indication of the massive disapproval of your actions. I won't say that these editors agree with me, because I don't know if they do, but it's clear that they oppose what you have been doing. Aecis 21:12, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Well it's difficult to argue with you, as you say "green" about things that are "blue". I repeat for the 10th time - everyone can see the List of sovereign states talking page and judje for himself, whether you are speaking truth about "total support" to your opinion, or not. Actually only you and one more editor opposed me there. The others where saying what I was saying. If you don't understand what people say, I believe others understand it and (I'm saying it again!) everyone, who is interested can see the List of sovereign states talking page.

You sure are a master at dodging difficult questions. I'll ask you for the fourth time: where have I lied? Where have I said things that weren't true? And I want direct, solid proof, provided by diffs and by "the truth" from which what I said differs according to you. "Everyone can see that..." is no answer or proof. As you can see on all involved pages, I have never claimed total support, or any other form of support for that matter. Talk pages are not the only indication to a person's position. Reverts are indications as well. Seven more than established edited reverted and undid your removal of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. That is opposition to your position as well. Aecis 21:34, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I will say it again. You have been liing for the whole day, when writing everywhere, that I was the only person who was saying something against the established consensus. Thats exactly what you where saying and yes, this is an obvious lie and you have repeated it dozen of times today. And YES, things which everyone can really see are considered to be properly proved usually!

Who supported you? You were and are alone in your position that Abkhazia and South Ossetia should be removed, while at least seven editors opposed that removal by reverting you. I wish you wouldn't accuse me of things I didn't do, and if you do accuse me, please prove it. Simply saying "anyone can see it" is no proof or argument, but a fallacy. If you are so certain of your case, you should have no problems proving it. Aecis 21:47, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

My opinion and a page version absolutely corresponds to the opinion of John Kennedy and Justin (koavf) of the established editors and Irakly81. Your opinion was represented by you yourself and Nightstallion. I am tired of repeating this again and again. Things which anyone can see don't need any proof at all. Now, the consensus is reached, and you don't unprotect the page, just to tease me:)) It's your business to do some kidding if you want. I have to go. I will reply tomorrow (probably will have to repeat something for 15th time).

Changing your opinion after a new proposal and then saying you've always felt that way doesn't fly here. You felt that the two regions shouldn't be on the list, which is why you removed them. And like I have said time and again, at least seven established editors showed their disapproval by reverting you and by continuing to revert you. Noone shared your view. And if you're saying that I'm so bad, you should be lucky. Many other admins would have blocked you for disruption, trolling and violating WP:POINT a long time ago. Aecis 23:06, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Unprotect?

Someone has requested that this article be unprotected. Is it ready to be unprotected? Please respond at the proper entry at WP:RFP. · Katefan0/poll 19:40, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Coat of arms of Lithuania

The coat of arms of Lithuania given here is not used as a state emblem. This is the coat of arms of the president of Lithuania. See Official presidential site. The coat of arms established by law is that used in the article Lithuania. See The parliament of Lithuania. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.219.57.189 (talk) 13:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC).

Fair use rationale for Image:Msia-crest.jpg

Image:Msia-crest.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Misplaced Pages article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Misplaced Pages:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Misplaced Pages policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:20, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Canada

Why is Canada missing?

Probably due to copyright issues. User:Zscout370 08:51, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Restored. --192.75.48.150 17:46, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

No, not restored at all. The arms shown here are the old outdated ones without the circumscription reading DESIDERANTES MELIOREM PATRIAM. Kelisi (talk) 02:14, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Royal Coat of Arms of England

The royal coat of arms of England are missing. I'd appreciate it if anyone added it. 70.110.233.69 18:16, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but England is not a Sovereign State, it is a constituent country of the UK. nat 18:50, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Barbados coa.png

Image:Barbados coa.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Misplaced Pages article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

— Save_Us_229 19:29, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Propose deletion of this page

Since there is a Gallery of country coats of arms page, I propose we delete the "sovereign states" version and use the one with the more common usage, in order to be consistent with Misplaced Pages past practice.

Misplaced Pages typically goes with common usages, and not academic (but non-scientific) ones. Do we go back and change all events from 1/1/2000 to 12/31/2000 and list them as "events of the 20th century"? No, we go with the common usage.

Misplaced Pages consistency: Do we have a "list of sovereign states by length of coastline"? No. How about "list of sovereign states by number of active troops", or "list of sovereign states by Human Development Index", or "list of sovereign states by number of telephone lines in use"? Of course not.

But we do have list of countries by length of coastline, list of countries by number of active troops, list of countries by Human Development Index, and list of countries by number of telephone lines in use, and all of those naturally include countries like Taiwan. Makes sense for the flag list to use the Misplaced Pages convention, too.

Skalskal —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skalskal (talk • contribs) 14:41, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

This article has an editing history going back to 2004. If the article title needs changing, don't create a fork which destroys all the editing history. Argue convincingly that the title needs changing, and the article will get moved. Gallery of country coats of arms is a fork of this article (currently identical except for the addition of one country) and should be deleted. Gimmetrow 16:08, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

History of page really has no bearing on validity. Several have vehemently argued that the countries listed in the page are consistent with the title, and they are correct. However, the title itself leads one to believe that it should not be listed in the various "list of country" listings, as it is NOT a list of countries, but merely a list of UN-recognized states. This type of listing is inconsistent with the rest of Misplaced Pages, but may still serve a useful purpose. For reference, see list of countries vs. list of sovereign states. I do not propose moving or deleting this article per se, but having both. However, if one is to be deleted, it would clearly be the sovereign-state version (4-year history notwithstanding), as virtually every other list on wikipedia does NOT call out a separate page for "non-sovereign states", but lists them on the same page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.188.183.5 (talk) 17:20, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

The *history* of the page cannot be deleted without creating a copyright violation. As it stands, it appears someone created the entire Gallery of country coats of arms on 8 April from scratch without credit to all the other editors who worked on this list since 2004. This list *could* be moved somewhere else, if you wish to make that argument. Gimmetrow 17:25, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Keep this Coat of Arms. This is the best don't remove it. It is part of all of us and I like it because it shows the coat of arms of all sovereign and unrecognized states. So please keep it. "koov" 13:28, 15 April 2008

Well, the preferable solution would be to rename this page to remove the restriction that it be based on "sovereign states" (note that it does NOT show unrecognized states, not even as an addendum, it merely refers to another page!!), or have it include partially-recognized and unrecognized de facto states, so that it matches the rest of the lists. Again, find me a split-out-into-two-articles lsit of sovereign states by coastline, and then you have a consistency argument. Until then, this is merely an island with different rules from the rest of the ocean, and it should be standardized. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skalskal (talk • contribs) 17:36, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

KOSOVA

Kosova is a recognized state by at least 35 nations and growing, so it clearly does belong in this article, partial recognition is only considered when a country is recognized by its mother land or relay close allies:(E.i. North Cyprus by Turkey), Kosova is not a partially recognized state, it is currently recognized by over 35 countries world wide and less than 10 countries have said they will not recognize it which means most of the other countries on earth have stated that they are in the process of recognition. The Kosova state is very similar to the Israel state both are recognized by some and not by other, for example non of the Muslim/Arab states recognize Israel but its still considered a sovereign state, Kosova is in the same situation and is considered a sovereign state even though countries like Serbia, Russia & Cyprus have said they will not recognize it.

Thanx 82.45.201.125 (talk) 08:26, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

The issue is that, yes, Kosovo is a country. But the name of this entry is "sovereign state", which is a term under some dispute but which can be construed as sort of meaning recognized by everyone or almost everyone.

But, the bigger problem is that this article is being reference in the "lists by country" entry, which is clearly incorrect, every other list on that page includes Taiwan and Kosovo where data is available. This page should instead be in a "lists by sovereign state" list, or it should be renamed and include all countries. 155.188.247.5 (talk) 13:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Propose a vote on renaming

Propose a vote on whether this should be renamed to "Gallery of country coats of arms" and include flags such as those of Taiwan and Kosovo. Please give reasons for or against your vote to Rename or to Keep name.

Rename: There are many many wikipedia articles listed by country, whereas there are only a few listed by "sovereign state". Since the intention here seems to be to prevent a duplication of effort, I propose we go with the far-more useful and common version. Skalskal (talk) 16:44, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Definition of "sovereign state"

Just a reminder, here is the exact quote of the definition of a sovereign state, per the referenced page, with my bolding:

...................

Criteria for inclusion

This list derives its definition of a sovereign state from Article 1 of the Montevideo Convention of 1933. According to the Convention, a sovereign state should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population, (b) a defined territory, (c) government, and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states. In respect of the last qualification, the role of recognition by other states can often be crucial since it implies acceptance into the international community. The list includes all states that satisfy these criteria and claim independence; however, the aforementioned qualifications are not absolute and permit variations.

On the basis of the above criteria, this list includes the following 203 entities:

193 sovereign states with general international recognition:

192 member states of the United Nations

One state with general international recognition but not UN membership, governed by the Holy See (a UN permanent observer): Vatican City

10 sovereign states lacking general international recognition:

Four entities lacking general international recognition, none of which are UN members, that may be defined as states in the body of customary international law: the Republic of China (Taiwan), the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, Kosovo, and the Palestinian territories.

Six entities lacking general international recognition, none of which are UN members, that have declared independence and have limited or no international recognition: the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (only recognized by Turkey), Abkhazia, Nagorno-Karabakh, Transnistria, Somaliland, and South Ossetia.

...................

If you would like this list to include only UN-recognized sovereign states, then we should change the title. Otherwise, be consistent with the title you're sticking to so adamantly!!! Skalskal (talk) 18:14, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

To those editing to a different standard: the title of this article is "Gallery of sovereign-state coats of arms", and it directly references the list of sovereign states, which includes 203 entries, including Kosovo & Taiwan. While you may personally disagree with this classification, the article has been clearly named as including "sovereign states", and NOT named as "UN-recognized states". If you believe that a separate article is necessary, please feel free to start one. Here's a start for you: Gallery of UN-recognized sovereign-state coats of arms. Have at it, but do not edit out this list. Skalskal (talk) 17:03, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Republic of Macedonia

Some nationalist Greek has placed the coat of arms of the Republic of Macedonia under the "F" section. I'm sorry my dear, but even with all your struggles, Republic of Macedonia starts with "M" and its not "flag of the fyrom" but its "flag of Macedonia." This needs to be changed.Long live Macedonia and Macedonians and Macedonia's minorities:Albanians, Turks, Serbs, Vlachs.

100px 141.217.95.238 (talk) 15:29, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Categories:

First section

Russia

South Africa

American Samoa

Category

Repitition

Matching

Link of individual articles

Taiwan

England, Scotland and Wales

Moving everything to gallery and deleting Palau note

Links to commons:National insignia

Differences with commons:National insignia

Coa in commons but not here

Coa here but not in commons

coa that are different here than in commons

Unprotecting

Unprotect?

Coat of arms of Lithuania

Fair use rationale for Image:Msia-crest.jpg

Canada

Royal Coat of Arms of England

Fair use rationale for Image:Barbados coa.png

Propose deletion of this page

KOSOVA

Propose a vote on renaming

Definition of "sovereign state"

Republic of Macedonia