Misplaced Pages

Talk:Caster Semenya

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 87.162.2.246 (talk) at 21:29, 22 August 2009 (→Female or male). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 21:29, 22 August 2009 by 87.162.2.246 (talk) (→Female or male)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
WikiProject iconBiography: Sports and Games Start‑class
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
StartThis article has been rated as Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the sports and games work group.
WikiProject iconAthletics Start‑class
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Athletics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the sport of athletics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page and join the discussion.AthleticsWikipedia:WikiProject AthleticsTemplate:WikiProject AthleticsAthletics
StartThis article has been rated as Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
???This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconLGBTQ+ studies Unassessed
WikiProject iconThis article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Misplaced Pages. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies
???This article has not yet received a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

Controversy

Regarding the controversy regarding the gender of this athlete during the 2009 Athletics world championships - the 'innocent until proven guilty' rule applies. Recent edits to this entry includes references such as 'he/she' - these should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noswal (talk • contribs) 06:18, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Gender contraversy is not a "guilt" but uncertainty, thus he/she describes the gender better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laberzs (talk • contribs) 06:50, 20 August 2009 (UTC) I made an edit that omits the use of he or she, thus achieving neutrality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laberzs (talk • contribs) 06:53, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

  • Removing all references to he/she is not 'neutrality'. If you think it is you really shouldn't be attempting to edit an encyclopedia. As of 20th August 2009 Caster Semenya is a woman and competes in athletics as a woman. To suggest otherwise, even by the use of gender neutral language, is to use Misplaced Pages to support unproven rumour or hearsay. This article should be reverted until the results of any gender test are known. 80.176.88.21 (talk) 07:13, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
    • Semenya is participating as a women, but is she a woman is under the question, it is a fact to be revealed not a popular vote or discussion. And besides, I do not think that you are to tell on how I should think or whether I should or should not edit anything. --Laberzs (talk) 07:23, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
      • Presumably you can now go and edit the Lady Gaga article to a 'gender neutral' POV because of rumours about her anatomy? Semenya's status has not changed to 'gender unknown' just because the IAAF has requested a test. 80.176.88.21 (talk) 07:32, 20 August 2009
          • Lady GagGa is a man ??? Blimey !

This article discusses the difficulty of determining a person's male or female sexual identity. It says we are all a mixture of both, neither 100% male or female. Maybe Caster is just unlucky she looks like a geezer, or maybe she could be like Stella Walsh who won Olympic Gold despite having male AND female genitalia. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1208012/Woman-man-little-bit-How-deciding-Caster-Semenyas-gender-complex-think.html


(UTC)

  • Comment. We have a standard on Misplaced Pages that living people are accorded dignity to be represented as the gender identity they clearly use. In most cases a person lives as a woman or a man and is referred to using the appropriate gender pronouns. No matter the test results Semenya identifies as a woman and will be referred to as such until she self-identifies otherwise. -- Banjeboi 20:19, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Even if the IAFF decided she cannot compete as a woman, that would not mean it is appropriate not to use the female pronoun in this article. The IAFF ruling only extends to her sporting engagements, it does not make it acceptable or appropriate for an encyclopedia to refer to her in any other way for as long as she self-identifies as female. JackAidley (talk) 21:47, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

This individual is neither lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender as far as anybody here knows (at this point in time) so why does this come under the scope of the LGBT portal ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.100.141.138 (talk) 06:41, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Probably because an article about someone whose gender has been challenged has similar issues to articles about trans people, so the LGBT project has interest and expertise in the relevant issues. --Alynna (talk) 11:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
Gagagagagagagagagagagagagagagaga. your all sick. her surname spells semen and men and semeny why is this. man is there too and anas. there is no w or o. its really cruel to dicsuss her like this. stopand leave her alone and let her win her medals and do her running and stop. omg is she gay now???? but no gender at all at all. i wonder how she manages to go to the tiolet. oh she's like a mudrerer for going out and running. show us her ginetalea. can they bend sideways can they or where will I rub them? no <makebig>stop</makebig> cruelity! pooor woman shocking treatment from here people! she's a human bean unless she's not! shes like a child so would you do this to a child. you would shocking. and don't delete people who stick up her. shame on those who arint a women for this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.180.121.117 (talk) 19:59, 21 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.196.55 (talk)

This is silly to not have any personal pronouns at all in the article. The results of the test have not yet been published. Semenya claims to be unconcerned about the test and rumours, although has reportedly considered boycotting the medal ceremony. That's a terrible sentence. It should say "although she has reportedly considered....." If Semenya is intersexed or even if she is biologically male, she's living as a woman and should be referred to as one. Nosleep 13:16, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Female or male

Hmmm I draw your attentions to Stella Walsh and Sarah Gronert... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.126.97 (talk) 08:42, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

  • Have a look at the pictures in this article.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Laberzs (talk • contribs) 10:21, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Not necessarily so. Please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/Foekje_Dillema She was a dutch athlete expelled from womans events, but based on recent rules of IOC would have been allowed to race today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.95.200.218 (talk) 17:01, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Has anyone noticed that he/she has a male name? It is an odd name too, for an African.

We should presume that Caster Semenya is a female until it is established otherwise.

It is said that there is a higher proportion of hermaphrodites amongst Bantu. That may be so. If Caster is a hermaphrodite, is he male with female characteristics, or female with male characteristics?JohnC (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:57, 21 August 2009 (UTC).

According to a yet unverified press report the Athletics South Africa conducted a gender test already in March. The result was that Caster Semenya is definitely intersexual. This result was withheld both from her, her family and the IAAF. It is being speculated that Athletics South Africa and its head coach used medications to bring her testosterone to normal levels for doping checks. 84.188.147.190 (talk) 17:37, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Blick is probably reliable, but if it's true it will be picked up by other sources soon enough. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 17:41, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
I think Semenya is a she by dint of self-identification, and that Semenya is perhaps intersexual by biology. I also think the test should be called a "biological sex test" and not a "gender" test. Gender is a person's identity and sex refers to a person's biological characteristics in the appropriate areas. 68.32.48.221 (talk) 00:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
I've seen an article discuss that it's a sex test,and not a gender test. If you can find a good reference, you should add the info. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:39, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
What would a "gender test" be, in your opinion? "Gender" refers to identity and social performance, "sex" to biology. If there were such thing as a "gender test" she would clearly pass it as female, because she was assigned that gender at birth and lives as a female. What they are doing to her is a sex test -- still very dubious, as there is no deterministic test for male/female, because biological sex itself is ill-defined (as a binary trait).--87.162.2.246 (talk) 21:29, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

MOS:IDENTITY

"A transgender, transsexual, or genderqueer person's latest preference in gendered nouns and pronouns should be adopted when referring to any phase of that person's life, unless this usage is overridden by that person's own expressed preference. Nevertheless, avoid confusing or seemingly logically impossible text that could result from pronoun usage (for example: She fathered her first child)." - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 15:15, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Categories: