Talk:Eurasian Land Bridge - Misplaced Pages

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Eurasian Land Bridge is currently an Economics and business good article nominee. Nominated by Cla68 (talk) at 22:33, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

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A fact from Eurasian Land Bridge appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know column on 26 November 2009 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know
- ... that railcars transiting the Eurasian Land Bridge from China to western Europe must change bogies twice?
A record of the entry may be seen at Misplaced Pages:Recent additions/2009/November.

Misplaced Pages

2004 redirect

I've temporarily deleted the redirect to the Asian Land Bridge because I'm not sure that's the same project. Another user redirected this to something else: forget the name. So I'm going to do a bit of research to see whether this Eurasian Land Bridge ever existed except in the minds of LaRouchies. Slim 08:43, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)

I can't find any references to this that aren't directly or indirectly linked to LaRouche, but the history shows that others have researched this (e.g. AndyL) and have decided to redirect, so I've re-inserted it. Slim

2009 expansion

I've expanded the article and removed the redirect. I did not use any sources linked to the LaRouche organization. A few areas of the topic need additional detail, but I was unable to find further information in English sources:

Which railway in Kazakhstan is China using to connect through to Europe?
Has Kazakhstan started the narrow gauge railroad project?
What's the status of the Bering Strait tunnel?
What's the status of the Korean peninsula rail link?
How much trans-continental freight and passengers are actually using the Trans-Siberian or Chinese routes each year to go from the Pacific to western Europe? Cla68 (talk) 10:20, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

The much older "2004 redirect" comments are strange because there are clearly numerous articles on the European Land Bridge and New Silk Road independent of and even predating LaRouche. It was utilized in the 1940s by the British to refer to connections between the Middle East and the Balkans. MajorStovall (talk) 19:29, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Title question

Hello. I did a search on Google. There are 34,500 hits for "Eurasian Land Bridge" and 13 million for "New Silk Road." Shouldn't the title of this article be "New Silk Road"? MajorStovall (talk) 18:33, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

You may be right about the name but I think you should check your search terms. I suspect you searched for New Silk Road, not "New Silk Road". I get 153,000 and 567,000 for the two terms you mention. 80.65.247.36 (talk) 19:09, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

I get 155,000 for ELB in quotes and 5.08 million for NSR in quotes. MajorStovall (talk) 19:13, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Strange. I'm googling from the UK but using google.com. I consistently get 567,000 for "new silk road". Very peculiar. Using google.co.uk (but searching all web, not just uk sites) it drops to 176,000. while "Eurasian land bridge" gets the same as google.com at 153,000. 80.65.247.36 (talk) 19:20, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

That is odd. I'm googling from the U.S. MajorStovall (talk) 19:25, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

It has been proposed in this section that Eurasian Land Bridge be renamed and moved to New Silk Road.

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Eurasian Land Bridge → New Silk Road — Google indicates that "New Silk Road" is the more common expression for this. MajorStovall (talk) 16:11, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Weak Support. Google is not the most reliable tool for determining the common name of an entity, but I think the proposed new title is the better one - "Eurasian Land Bridge" suggests a geological feature, rather than an actual bridge constructed to carry a railway. Tevildo (talk) 20:50, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
- It's neither - see Land bridge (rail). It's a sort of "bridging" of freight over land between ports. --NE2 19:05, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. The reason I titled this article expansion "Eurasian Land Bridge" over "New Silk Road" was because of the sources I found. The vast majority of sources that come up under a Google search for either term do not meet our definition of a reliable source. So, I turned to ProQuest's NewsStand, which contains articles from about 350 major English-language newspapers and news services stretching back to the 1980s. Within NewsStand, "Eurasian Land Bridge" returned 31 articles. "New Silk Road" returned 229. However, while almost all of the articles for the former search term contained information relevant to the subject of this article, the majority of the "New Silk Road" articles did not. The term "New Silk Road" is applied to a variety of topics in addition to the rail links between Asia and western Europe, including sea, road, and air trade, stock and securities trading in Asia, manufacturing, textiles, and raw material production and trade, internet and computer network connections, and even the exchange of ideas between Asia and the West. For example, I just did the search for "New Silk Road" in NewsStand again and retrieved article titles such as: "One-time foes linked at 20GB per second", "Cable link a new Silk Road for China, India", "QualityStocks: QualityStocks - The New Silk Road - 6/15/09", "News Analysis: China's New Silk Road shines in Africa", and "South Korean president vows increased support for Uzbek students". I checked all of those articles and none of them have anything to do with the rail links covered in this article. That last article I listed is particularly illuminating, it refers to building a data link between Uzbekistan and Korea called the New Silk Road. And the list goes on. In summary, I do not believe that enough of the hits coming back in Google for the "New Silk Road" are actually referring to the topic of this article. "Eurasian Land Bridge", on the other hand, appears to almost always refer to the rail links covered under this topic. So I think Eurasian Land Bridge is the better title. I might be wrong, of course. If someone can show that the number of hits for "New Silk Road" and referring to the railroad still outnumber "Eurasian Land Bridge", then I'll support the move. I think that's quite a task, though. Cla68 (talk) 23:27, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

The important thing is that there is an article on this fascinating subject, and I want to thank and commend you for doing the hard work involved. In my brief time onwiki I've seen such dross, such flotsam, that it boggles my tiny mind. I do think more thought needs to be given to the title. The second google hit for New Silk Road is http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_46/b4108046852388.htm, which has nothing to do with the Eurasian Land Bridge. Meanwhile, back in the day, the Eurasian Land Bridge was used for something different than you're talking about. How about maybe thinking of a third title like "Europe-Asian Rail Links" or something that can describe what you have here in a way that's not ambiguous and can also work? Does this make sense? MajorStovall (talk) 03:01, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm open to that. In fact, if someone moved this to "New Silk Road" in spite of my objection I wouldn't protest. Most of the sources that I used for the article did use the term "Eurasian Land Bridge", which appears to be the preferred term in China, Japan, and elsewhere in south and central Asia. Nevertheless, it doesn't really matter, I guess, since we can just redirect all the alternatives to the title we choose. Perhaps someone else will jump in and give us a third or fourth opinion. Thanks for the kind words, by the way. Cla68 (talk) 04:14, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I'd like to see what others think. I guess this doesn't get much attention because it doesn't pertain to a rock star or video game. See? Already I'm jaded. MajorStovall (talk) 15:46, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Oppose per Cla68 - "New Silk Road" has too many different meanings to call it the primary name for this. --NE2 19:05, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. As Cla68 has already stated, the term "New Silk Road" is much too ambiguous to serve as the article's title, as it could refer to multiple things. However, the current title, "Eurasian Land Bridge", clearly relates to the topic at hand and has only one meaning. Therefore, this article should retain its current title. Laurinavicius (talk) 09:50, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Oppose There is also Trans-Asian Railway with 105,000 Google hits, but this is a multi-threaded proposal, unlike the ELB which is confined to more or less one route.

Oppose There is also Saudi Landbridge Project (note one word) which is another use of "Landbridge" for a railway. There might be some sense in making the names of the various landbridges more consistant. Tabletop (talk) 05:56, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Oppose I've just reviewed this for Did you know and got slightly confused by the different names used for this subject. I don't think a move to New Silk Road as per the proposal is correct or particularly helpful, but would support a move to "Europe-Asian Rail Links" or something similar as suggested by MajorStovall above. Choosing a more descriptive name rather than a potentially misleading "marketing" term would, I think, benefit the article. If keeping the present title is preferred, would it be better to use "Eurasian Land-Bridge" which seems to be a more common result on Google? Nick Ottery (talk) 13:20, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
- The topic isn't rail links between Europe and Asia in general, but this specific corridor. --NE2 22:21, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
  - This is just my opinion, but it appears that the two major countries involved, Russia and China, want to use names for the corridor which favors their route- "Nothern East-West Corridor" for Russia, and "New Eurasian" or "Second Continental Land Bridge" for China. Both routes currently combine with each other, however, so it's problematic to treat them as separate topics. "Eurasian Land Bridge" appears to be a generic title, supported by the RS, which encompasses both routes adequately. If Google supports changing it to "Eurasian Land-Bridge" with the hyphen, I think that may be ok. Cla68 (talk) 22:27, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Mention of LaRouche Movement

This is inappropriate per WP:UNDUE. This is a very minor bit of trivia which adds nothing to the article. freshacconci talktalk 02:41, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Type "Eurasian Land Bridge" into Google and five of the top six links mention LaRouche. None of the sources used for the text on LaRouche in this article are linked to the LaRouche organization. Saying that two sentences in the body of an article of this length is "undue" is stretching the Undue provision to the breaking point. If you look at the threads above, you'll see that several other editors have reviewed this article, including one for the DYK submission, and didn't have a problem with it. I'm going to revert it back and invite the other editors who have this article on their watchlist to comment before we consider removing the material again. Cla68 (talk) 08:19, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

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