This is an old revision of this page, as edited by MiszaBot III (talk | contribs) at 13:05, 16 December 2009 (Archiving 2 thread(s) (older than 7d) to User talk:Beetstra/Archive 13.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 13:05, 16 December 2009 by MiszaBot III (talk | contribs) (Archiving 2 thread(s) (older than 7d) to User talk:Beetstra/Archive 13.)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff) | Dirk is busy in real life and may not respond swiftly to queries. |
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Welcome to my talk page. Please leave me a note by starting a new subject here in the header of this talkpage before starting a new subject. The question you may have may already have been answered there Dirk Beetstra |
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I am the main operator of User:COIBot. If you feel that your name is wrongly on the COI reports list because of an unfortunate overlap between your username and a certain link or text, please ask for whitelisting by starting a new subject on my talkpage. For a better answer please include some specific 'diffs' of your edits (you can copy the link from the report page). If you want a quicker response, make your case at WT:WPSPAM or WP:COIN. COIBot - Talk to COIBot - listings - Link reports - User reports - Page reports | |||||
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I will respond to talk messages where they started, trying to keep discussions in one place (you may want to watch this page for some time after adding a question). Otherwise I will clearly state where the discussion will be moved/copied to. Though, with the large number of pages I am watching, it may be wise to contact me here as well if you need a swift response. If I forget to answer, poke me. There are several discussions about my link removal here, and in my archives. If you want to contact me about my view of this policy, please read and understand WP:NOT, WP:EL, WP:SPAM and WP:A, and read the discussions on my talkpage or in my archives first. My view in a nutshell:External links are not meant to tunnel people away from the wikipedia. Hence, I will remove external links on pages where I think they do not add to the page (per WP:NOT#REPOSITORY and WP:EL), or when they are added in a way that wikipedia defines as spam (understand that wikipedia defines spam as: '... wide-scale external link spamming ...', even if the link is appropriate; also read this). This may mean that I remove links, while similar links are already there or which are there already for a long time. Still, the question is not whether your link should be there, the question may be whether those other links should be there (again, see the wording of the policies and guidelines). Please consider the alternatives before re-adding the link:
If the linkspam of a certain link perseveres, I will not hesitate to report it to the wikiproject spam for blacklisting (even if the link would be appropriate for wikipedia). It may be wise to consider the alternatives before things get to that point. The answer in a nutshellPlease consider if the link you want to add complies with the policies and guidelines. If you have other questions, or still have questions on my view of the external link policy, disagree with me, or think I made a mistake in removing a link you added, please poke me by starting a new subject on my talk-page. If you absolutely want an answer, you can try to poke the people at WT:EL or WT:WPSPAM on your specific case. Also, regarding link, I can be contacted on IRC, channel . Reliable sourcesI convert inline URL's into references and convert referencing styles to a consistent format. My preferred style is the style provided by cite.php (<ref> and <references/>). When other mechanisms are mainly (but not consistently) used (e.g. {{ref}}/{{note}}/{{cite}}-templates) I will assess whether referencing would benefit from the cite.php-style. Feel free to revert these edits when I am wrong. Converting inline URLs in references may result in data being retrieved from unreliable sources. In these cases, the link may have been removed, and replaced by a {{cn}}. If you feel that the page should be used as a reference (complying with wp:rs!!), please discuss that on the talkpage of the page, or poke me by starting a new subject on my talk-page Note: I am working with some other developers on mediawiki to expand the possibilities of cite.php, our attempts can be followed here and here. If you like these features and want them enabled, please vote for these bugs. Stub/Importance/Notability/Expand/ExpertI am in general against deletion, except when the page really gives misinformation, is clear spam or copyvio. Otherwise, these pages may need to be expanded or rewritten. For very short articles there are the different {{stub}} marks, which clearly state that the article is to be expanded. For articles that do not state why they are notable, I will add either {{importance}} or {{notability}}. In my view there is a distinct difference between these two templates, while articles carrying one of these templates may not be notable, the first template does say the article is probably notable enough, but the contents does not state that (yet). The latter provides a clear concern that the article is not notable, and should probably be {{prod}}ed or {{AfD}}ed. Removing importance-tags does not take away the backlog, it only hides from attention, deleting pages does not make the database smaller. If you contest the notability/importance of an article, please consider adding an {{expert-subject}} tag, or raise the subject on an appropriate wikiproject. Remember, there are many, many pages on the wikipedia, many need attention, so maybe we have to live with a backlog. Having said this, I generally delete the {{expand}}-template on sight. The template is in most cases superfluous, expansion is intrinsic to the wikipedia (for stubs, expansion is already mentioned in that template). |
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Blacklisting
Hmm, I did not realize blacklisting didn't leave an audit trail like the edit filter can/does. Perhaps it should. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 18:08, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
- Unfortunately it does not. Not sure what it would say, anyway. You would see one attempted addition by a user, and because the first does not save, they will not try again. So it would never show evidence of 'attempted spam' .. so even with audit trail, I would not de-blacklist because of that. I haven't put the examples in there, but there are nice examples of link which got de-blacklisted upon request, and where the spammer nicely goes on soon after (aboutmyarea.co.uk showed that nicely .. socks spamming it, it got blacklisted, deblacklisting because someone needed one instance, and new socks appear who nicely go on spamming the site .. ). As I've said a couple of times, spamming pays, and people get paid to spam. It will not stop, editors go through serious efforts trying to spam what we blacklist. Even a reverting bot is not going to help. It pays to have your link here, so they will revert. It is just a hurdle. --Dirk Beetstra 18:24, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
AGF, etc
Regarding the addition to the facts section, those were your words. I put them there to clarify the difference in application between black and whitelisting.
Regarding Hu12, his behavior is completely over the top. Accusing me of using this RfC as some kind of personal vendetta is a clear assumption of bad faith. I have been very generous in the formulation of this RfC, as you are well aware, engaging the blacklist regulars for input. Hu12 has no basis for his accusations. Like I said, he is, by far, the worst offender when it comes to unsupported black and whitelisting decisions, and using the blacklist preemptively may very well be considered abuse. I don't think my comments are out of line. Gigs (talk) 22:53, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
abandoned comment
As a side remark, I wonder if Misplaced Pages and the New York Times are wrong, if Stanford is wrong, or if this is another accidental overlap in name, but actually a different person? Linking is fine, Keith, but we can gain so much more from these archives, and vice versa. --Dirk Beetstra T C 07:45, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
- Why do you think there is a conflict between the Stanford materials and the NYT? Keith Henson (talk) 00:25, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
The date of birth are different ("Tillie Olsen was born in Nebraska in 1913 and has lived in San Francisco for most of her life." vs. "Tillie Lerner Olsen (January 14, 1912–January 1, 2007)", the latter referenced to a NYT article.). For the rest it seems to be the same person, I can't believe they are different. I think the Stanford article is wrong.
This exemplifies a bit what I mean, Keith. Archives do have more to offer than just external links. Here in this specific example Misplaced Pages has something to offer for them (I presume that their database is wrong), but on another occasion it can just be the other way around. That is why I am against blind and pushed link additions (this specific link would be a violation of WP:EL, linking to factually incorrect information). However, if an editor takes a little bit more care, then there is no problem. To me, it is not the loss of the Stanford editor that is the problem, it is the loss that such editors could have done so much more, could have given so much more added value then just linking to a database. I hope this explains. --Dirk Beetstra 06:32, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
If I look further, do I see more discrepancies between the articles? There is also something about the date of publication of a book, is it 1961 or 1962. --Dirk Beetstra 06:35, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
Examples
Looks fine, thanks. Gigs (talk) 16:58, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
University of Atlanta
I had good info posted on that page, this is out of contoll.....why did you change the page. I called the State of Georgia and asked about how I could find out if they were two diffrent Schools, they were able to inform me that a new operations license was open for University of Atlanta. So it's a fact that are two dirrent schools, so why is this going on still just remove this info and leave the rest alone this page is way way slanted Against the school. Please Help!!!--Supercopone (talk) 03:25, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
- All is sourced, they are NOT two different schools, one is a restart of the other. We've been through this before, I would really suggest you stay on talkpages first. If you remove the history of University of Atlanta, the page is very, very likely to be deleted, as there is nothing left. --Dirk Beetstra 07:57, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Supercopone
I have unblocked Supercopone (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). He has handled himself poorly, but there are very serious problems with University of Atlanta. I will counsel him to make his case on the talk page rather than edit warring. With respect to your administrative actions, you seem to have a rather definite position regarding what the content of the article should be. You probably shouldn't be blocking other editors who differ with your opinion. Fred Talk 15:09, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
- Please look at the past, the article has been handled by several admins who have properly sourced all information in the article. It is not the article that has issues, the SEO attack was real, the promotional language of the article is real, this is not 'the data is incorrect' (read the references), this is plain spamming, and sock/meat puppetry. But as I said, I will not take further admin action, and I did bring this to ANI. --Dirk Beetstra 15:12, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
- I do still consider to reopen the SPI .. Mistro12 was in the list of sockpuppets, the sleeper account of Supercopone might as well be. --Dirk Beetstra 15:13, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
COIbot question
If I had realized you were the one to maintain COIbot sooner, I would have brought my initial question directly to you. But, I now have a secondary question ...
What is the normal processing time for entries at User:COIBot/Poke? I'm not sure what priority entries on that page receive, or what other tasks may be using COIBot's processing time; but I noticed that none of the entries at the "poke" page appear to have been processed. Does COIbot have technical limits on number of links to a url it can research?
Just curious, for future reference. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 19:00, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
- Hmmm .. that does happen sometimes. COIBot seems to have lost contact with reality (it looks like it stopped parsing the diffs from IRC) .. I am restarting the connection, see if that helps.
- COIBot is continuously saving linkreports. The cross-wiki and local reports get highest priority, after that these poked ones, and then some other ones (people on IRC can also ask for them). Lag is generally in terms of a handful of minutes, except when there are many which have to be saved.
- The bot now saw the edit:
- <COIBot> Stalked page User:COIBot/Poke edited by en:User:Beetstra ( http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?diff=331305865&oldid=331305318 ), checking for added LinkSummary templates.
- <COIBot> en:User:COIBot/Poke edited, COIBot poked urls into report: opcae.com excelreporter.com opcuasupport.com opcworkshops.com medicanalife.com absoluteastronomy.com welovesoaps.net
so they should be there shortly. --Dirk Beetstra 19:44, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for the help and the information. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:10, 12 December 2009 (UTC)