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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ash (talk | contribs) at 11:07, 22 December 2009 (→List of shell providers - criteria). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

This article was nominated for deletion on 5 August 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

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Irrelevant Infomation

"Shell accounts have been involved in illegal activity." I think this should be removed from the article as this can apply to many things yet it goes unsaid. For example, a car, a banana, a pop can, can be used in illegal activities but we don't put that in articles about those topics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.228.37.188 (talk) 08:18, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

This information is relevant as per the references. As for your example, we see an entire article on Motor vehicle theft. We can't just remove because you think it should go unsaid. --Hm2k (talk) 10:52, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

List of shell providers - criteria

If a list of shell providers is to be maintained in this article, is there a consensus on how to define notability as a clear criteria for inclusion (and thus exclusion) in order to avoid this becoming an endless directory of providers (see WP:LSC)?—Ash (talk) 10:42, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Notability is already established by each article. If there is a lack of notability there would not be an article and thus should not be in the list. This is the general consensus throughout Misplaced Pages. --Hm2k (talk) 11:42, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Ah, so the criteria is that shell providers are only included where there is a Misplaced Pages article (not actually clear, particularly as 'Grex' does not follow this rule). If this is the criteria it should be stated. The list still seems entirely redundant as Category:Shell account providers does the same job (just updated it) as by definition they should remain identical, and this embedded list ought to be removed for that reason unless inclusion here adds some particular extra encyclopaedic value making it worth maintaining.—Ash (talk) 11:50, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

An article did exist for Grex and was userfied. It may return soon, however feel free to fix it yourself. Consider the list as a more elaborate extension of the "see also" sections often seen on articles. It's there to assist where categories cannot such as giving brief detail to the non-technical reader. You cannot completely dismiss the list as it was originally a separate article, but it was merged because it's not big enough to justify a whole article, yet it is notable enough for one. Further more, it is highly appropriate to link to articles about shell account providers from the shell account page. --Hm2k (talk) 09:20, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Okay, it sounds like the current inclusion criteria for this embedded list is "any provider of shell accounts notable enough to have a current wikipedia article or that may have draft pages in userspace". Do think the embedded list does not need an explicit definition inclusion criteria?—Ash (talk) 09:32, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

You have clearly misunderstood what I'm saying, which is that notability is established if there is an article and that you can fix it at your own discretion. Misplaced Pages already provides criteria for content, we should use those, no further criteria is required. --Hm2k (talk) 09:59, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't fancy fixing it on your behalf. Consequently by the definition you've given here Grex should be removed until such time as an article is created. I'll remove it on that basis.—Ash (talk) 10:46, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Since you raised this discussion you would be fixing it on your own behalf, not mine. Redlinks can be removed at your own discretion based on Misplaced Pages's criteria. "So fix it" applies here, you don't need my approval. --Hm2k (talk) 11:02, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

the 'shell providers' section seems arbitrary. there are tens of thousands of shell providers on the net. i support the deletion of the section, and moving the content to elsewhere in the article. for example, a sentence like 'the well is one of the first shell providers' could be merged into the main part of the articl if there's a third party, reliable source mentioning the fact that the well was one of the first. Theserialcomma (talk) 23:49, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

If the list is removed, the wikilinks will be restored in some form or another. The current form is the most direct and maintainable. You should consider improving Misplaced Pages rather than removing content and making it more difficult to navigate. --Hm2k (talk) 09:14, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Hm2k, I see you've just reverted my improvement to the inclusion criteria. On the one hand you say go ahead and improve the article whilst on the other you appear to be setting yourself up as sole arbiter on how this list should be handled. This particular server has no rationale for notability, that is why I removed it and refined the criteria to be the earliest shell account providers. If you are going to be entirely resistant to change then you will find yourself outside of a consensus.—Ash (talk) 10:35, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

The list is a list, there is no other criteria. Who put you in charge of deciding the criteria? If the "server" has no place on here, it has no place on Misplaced Pages. Good luck. --Hm2k (talk) 10:56, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

You have reverted my edit for a second time without consideration of the page you are linking to. Adding links to articles and assuming that because an article exists on WP it must be okay to link to seems naive, particularly considering this one is up for deletion. It's strange that your response is to ask who put me in charge, you may find the guidance of WP:OWN helpful as you appear to be acting in an overtly non-collaborative manner.—Ash (talk) 11:07, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

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