Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by HJ Mitchell (talk | contribs) at 16:19, 8 June 2010 (→Rollback now?: reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Admins: If you feel I have erred in one of my admin actions, just correct it. I won't consider it wheel warring if you leave me a note explaining what you did and why!

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An Award!

User:QwerpQwertus/The Puzzle Piece Award

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of German Ministers-Presidents by longevity

I found your closure of this AfD as keep, without any explanation of your rationale, surprising. Purely numerically there were three editors for delete and three for keep, but two of the keep rationales were based simply on WP:WAX so should carry little weight. Whilst it's a judgment call, I certainly don't see a "keep" result there; I appreciate that you did, but its not so obvious it needed no explanation. The AfD also cited Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_German_Federal_Ministers_by_longevity which itself cites two other AfDs - all of which are near-identical and resulted in delete and again, your reasoning for coming to a different conclusion would have been appreciated. I42 (talk) 08:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Frankly all the arguments made in that AfD were pretty weak. Personally, if I'd opined, I would have gone woith a delete !vote, but analysing the discussion as it is, nobody had commented in over a week so, after the nom, we have, in order:

• WP:OTHERCRAP
• "Jut not encyclopaedic"
• The only !voter to actually provide a rationale for their opinion
• "Just not encyclopaedic"
• and finally, another othercrap argument

Given that the only strong, or even valid, argument besides the nomination was a keep !vote, I closed it as keep, but you may consider this leave to re-nominate in a few weeks when hopefully the discussion will attract more participation. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. I think that ignores the primary rationale that the two categorisations are unrelated, ie fails WP:NOTDIR #6 (Non-encyclopedic cross-categorizations). I think the article can be made encyclopedic (List of German Chancellors by longevity, for example, includes non-indiscriminate information such as age at inauguration in addition to age at death) so I will see if it can be developed before renominating for deletion. I42 (talk) 18:28, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Ever reviewed a GA?

(pretend it's an ad) Well now you can by reviewing the article Ersatz Monarch class battleship! Just follow the Good Article Criteria and tell me of any issues! But wait there's more, act now and you'll get a free.....well I've got nothing just please review this thing for me. I need this for the WikiCup as Casliber is catching up to me and this article has been awaiting a GA review since mid May.--White Shadows 16:41, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

PS: Can you please delete the redirected page German Type IXA submarine so I can move my sandbox article User:White Shadows/German Type IXB submarine to that page? Thanks.--White Shadows 16:51, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

OK, I'll have a look later on (and yes, about 50 in response to the title!) ;). You sure you've got the right link there, that's not a redirect... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:53, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I think you meant IXB, so that's where I've stuck it (I didn't leave redirect behind, but I figured you'd only have me delete it under U1 later). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:57, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks I did mean IXB :) As for the review, go for it!--White Shadows 17:01, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks!

I appreciate that. Dare I reveal my ignorance by asking what happens next? Obviously, I have a slight agenda here, in that I'm really asking "will the userfication happen", rather than "talk me through the nitty-gritty of processes that I should already know about"...!

Cheers, TFOWR 18:59, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I've no issue with userfication as long as the creator is aware that WP isn't a web host and it may be MfD'd if it just sits there indefinitely. As for the nitty-gritty, if the article hadn't been deleted, I'd just move it to an appropriate place, unticking the "leave a redirect behind" box that admins get. Since it's been deleted, I'll restore it first, then do exactly the same. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:05, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

No worries. I can move to their userspace if you let me know when I can. If I'd been on the ball I'd have done that prior to posting at ANI... Regardless, I'll let them know about what's required. Ta! 19:07, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

But you can't move without a redirect (yet!) so you would have had to have tagged the redirect for speedy, meanwhile the AfD says it was deleted but it's a bluelink. Basically, it's esier if you're an admin! I've stuck it at User:Rohedin/Newgrounds Linux. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:10, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! I've volunteered myself for any further questions. I'm a Linux person, so I see the motivation, but I'm not convinced it's a Linux distribution that meets WP:N yet. TFOWR 19:17, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Qassim Afzal

I have serious concerns about your AfD close. In particular:

• This site (which had most sources, but not all) doesn't look like a "local newspaper". Neither this, for example.
• Even if they were, I have never heard consensus that local news are not considered RS.
• The fact that other sources don't verify "basic biographic information" seems irrelevant in face of WP:GNG and similar guidelines -we can simply avoid to give such information and stick to what is effectively in sources (if I am wrong, please link the appropriate guideline).

In the light of above (and of your "reluctance" mentioned in the close statement), can I hope in a reconsideration of the close? Thanks! --Cyclopia 20:25, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, if you genuinely have "serious concerns", then I suggest you raise them at WP:DRV, but if you're just expressing a strongly held opinion, I'll take it as that. As I recall, neither of the sources above were in the article (but I'll check the deleted content in a minute). Local news sources can be RS, but they don't do a lot for establishing notability- for example, coverage in the Lincolnshire Echo would do less for notability than coverage in, say, The Guardian (just example). My reluctance in closing it that way was that I felt it could have gone the other way if a few more people had made strong keep arguments and actually improved the article and its sourcing. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:45, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking about DRV from the start, in fact. :) About "improving the article", well, it's not the status of the article that counts, but the subject itself (WP:ATD). In fact, there is the opposite problem: people (including myself) are often wary of touching AfD'ed articles because they feel their work would be wasted if it closes as delete anyway. So, better to bring the arguments and sources before and then waiting a decision. --Cyclopia 23:15, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Well I have to say that, in borderline cases, a few edits to improve the sourcing can make all the difference. If you'd like, I can userfy it for you to work on and you can move it back into the mainspace after it's been sourced and there's been a reasonable "grace period" since the AfD... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:21, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Good idea, please do! How much time would you advice to wait (in any case it won't be less than a month due to real life stuff)? --Cyclopia 14:46, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

A month seems reasonable. I'll sort that out for you now. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:48, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

It's now at User:Cyclopia/Qassim Afzal. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

File:Nadal Australian Open 2009 2.jpg

Hello! Please note that when cropping an image for the main page, it should be uploaded under a different filename (with "cropped" appended) to preserve the original file's appearance within articles. (Instead of the {{c-uploaded}} tag, the {{m-cropped}} template is used). Thank you! —David Levy 20:27, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. I forgot when I was cropping that file- I was in a hurry! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:46, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Shirik (Questions or Comments?) 22:32, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

To present/onward

I finally got around to starting a discussion about the date range issue, and I'm curious as to what the responses will be. If you're interested in chiming in or simply following along, the discussion is at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style#.22.E2.80.93present.22_in_article_body – Kerαunoςcopia_galaxies 23:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm equally curious, but I don;t have much to add, so I'm just watching. :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Friendly heads up.

So I guess 4chan is mad at you or something. Heads up, you'll probably be getting a lot of spam. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.251.210.154 (talk) 23:20, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Re:In case you're not watching it

—MC10 (T•C•GB•L) 00:40, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

—MC10 (T•C•GB•L) 00:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Robots.txt

re: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=MediaWiki%3ARobots.txt&action=historysubmit&diff=365898941&oldid=353973694

You need to close the source tag, too; the /pre is still at the bottom ;) Jack Merridew 03:24, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Sorry- you know I'm useless with markup! ;) Is that better? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:27, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Ya. Tags should be balanced. The same rule applies to some templates, too; see here (scroll to the end of the diff past a lot of miscellaneous nits). This pair of templates should travel as a pair. The core issue with all the stuff re markup and colors is that most users have no clue about markup. But some are just full of opinion, anyway. They need to see Equus. Cheers, Jack Merridew 03:45, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Hey, it's the same with being an admin- plenty of armchair generals with no appreciation for the difficulties of the job! That's Misplaced Pages (and life in general) for you. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:04, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Custom welcome page spread by Diego Grez onto ~1000 user pages

Hi Mitchell,

RE:Diego Grez

I'm not sure that this custom welcome page spread by Diego Grez onto ~1000 user pages is such a good idea. It's really unorthodox. And it also spreads following images:

• Potential privacy/privacy of a minor issues: Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Bullying_Irfe.jpg ~ 1000 pages
• Likely without permission: Special:WhatLinksHere/File:My_Grandfather_Photo_from_January_17.JPG ~1000 pages
• ...

I've also seen IP users finding this welcome page downright offensive. Please consider replacing it with a regular welcome page.

--Dc987 (talk) 05:25, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Erm, dDiego hasn't edited a user talk page besides mine and his (and one to Xeno's) since early January... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Uh. Ok. Anyway, please double-check this link: Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Bullying_Irfe.jpg. This image has been spread onto ~1000 welcome pages and it features two kids. It might be privacy of a minor/CIPA violation. --Dc987 (talk) 23:37, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I doubt it, and if there were, it would be a Commons problem, since that's where the image is. You can raise it on commons:commons:AN if you wish. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:46, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Harassment again at my page

Hello Mitch, as you told me before and I understand that you could help to semi-protect my talk page (could use the indef-SPP right now, thanks!), but what about this harassment? Looks awfully like JA or his clone operating under an ANON IP, which is their usual MO. Anyway, I'm kind of indifferent to their nonsensical behaviour these days, meaning that I'm mildly irritated but I'm not angry at a mentally disturbed soul. Regards. --Dave 09:29, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I've semi'd your talk page for another 6 months. I wouldn't worry too much- they seem to have new-found fascination with me after I used RevDel on the edit summaries from the latest round of Grawp page moves. Just ignore them and they'll get bored. Eventually. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:56, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

• Many thanks for the little help. Going through the records, I must say that I've noticed about the current trend of disturbances (leading to the various RevDels all over WP) that has been going on for the last 2 weeks, their particular interest seems to be focused on the several Admins and editors who had crossed their path, you being one of them. But like you've mentioned, they will get bored by it, eventually. --Dave 13:25, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

HighKing

Perhaps you could also delete all his unfounded accusations. By the way, I posted NO personal information about him; I made a point of not doing so by leaving out vital elements. I tried to keep the whole issue confidential but he ws having none of it. Mister Flash (talk) 13:30, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

In the interests of fairness, and because HK obviously feels strongly about it, I should point out that you've only done half a job - two revisions of minor edits remain, therefore keeping the whole text. However, please pay attention to the background here, and also note that I HAVE NOT OUTED HIM, NOR DID I INTEND TO. I have not divulged ANY information that could lead anyone to his identity. He insisted on noting the fact that I'd sent him an email which he descibed as threatening. Not to put too finer point on it, he was asking for it to some extent. Maybe you could remove a whole string of related revisions, then we might get back on the stright and narrow. Mister Flash (talk) 13:54, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Those two revisions shouldn't contain the information because the first had been deleted, but I've deleted them just in case. You posted an IP address and a location- regardless of your intent, that kind of information, unless specifically given by the subject, is private and has no place being posted on one of the most visible noticeboards on the wiki. As for the rest, I've no interest in what's going on between you and HK and that belongs on ANI, not here. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

click year ahead

You are obviously a few 'click years' ahead of me in wikipedia. You make an edit, at... 13:22 (Deletion log)‎... I cannot fathom its effect but hope you can answer for the simple reason that I am somehow linked to that edit and I try to understand what happens in wikipedia now and then. Thanks! Politis (talk) 14:19, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Do you have a diff or a page name so I know which action you're referring to? I had a look through my deletion log and couldn't find anything in my last 200 deletions with that timestamp, but if it was in the deletion log it was either a revision deletion (which removes an edit or an edit summary from the page history) or a page deletion (what it says- first it's there, then it's not). hope that helps. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:26, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

In case you are at the receiving end of lots of daft questions, thanks! This is what appeared on my watchlist and I had never seen it before: 14:07 (Deletion log)‎ . . . Politis (talk) 15:06, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, that means something was deleted, but without a diff or a title, I couldn't tell you what or why. Most of my deletions are spam or expired proposed deletions, though close the odd AfD and zap a few attack pages and copyright violations. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:57, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

User:Datastat

He created a similar article on the Visa policy of Ukraine. I nominated for a speedy on the grounds of no content, but then had second thoughts. Can you take a look? Thanks. ScottyBerg (talk) 15:15, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge, it doesn't qualify for speedy, but I'd suggest an AfD might be in order. I mass-deleted a number of his contributions due to copyright problems a few weeks ago. At least this one isn't a coyvio, so it might be worth just leaving it for a while and seeing what happens- it's not harming anyone. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:02, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it's sort of informative. I think I'll just leave it be. ScottyBerg (talk) 16:39, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

History merge needed

I would like 2010 Pennsylvania 500 and 2010 Sunoco Red Cross Pennsylvania 500 histmerged. I created the latter a few minutes ago when I realized the former existed. The latter has the correct title and is more up-to-date. Thanks. ~NerdyScienceDude (✉ • ✐) 15:32, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

 Done, you can just use {{db-histmerge}} in future and leave a note explaining whats up on the talk page. --Taelus (Talk) 15:45, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Taelus :). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:02, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Reid Stowe Biography

Hello HJ Mitchell. I've suggested you extend the protection of this article indefinitely as the edit wars are likely to reopen as soon as protection is dropped, and that the article will suffer from even more imbalance once those wars escalate and the article is relocked. I believe that the article should continue to be managed through consensus. Thanks. Regatta dog (talk) 15:46, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't protect the article and my only involvement was to answer an {{editprotected}} request while patrolling CAT:PER. You might like to contact Tcncv (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:08, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Regatta dog (talk) 16:17, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

AfDs

Isn't it about time that there was a rule in place saying that editors who nominate an article for deletion should present their case in the nomination and the leave the AfD alone for the closing admin to decide after weighing up all the arguments presented in favour of deletion and in favour of retention? This being instead of keep chipping away at every editor who does not share the nominator's POV (I'll give you one guess as to which AfD discussion and which editor I mean). Mjroots (talk) 16:40, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, as someone who closes the odd AfD, I prefer it if the nominator makes their case and just shuts up, but I don't have a problem with them replying civilly to one or two of the keep !voters (I'm guilty of it myself occasionally). Badgering gets on my nerves, but I tend to ignore bickering when I close unless someone actually has a valid point. I suppose my thoughts on running up and down a thread bombarding those who disagree with you is documented in the AN thread I started. I've seen much worse AfDs, though. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:52, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I tried to resist the urge, honestly! Mjroots (talk) 17:53, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

It's not worth it. You could get more arguing than an FAC in, but almost none of it will affect the close. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:59, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

(best Andy Pipkin voice) Yeah, I know! Best way to counter an AfD like this is to keep improving the article. Mjroots (talk) 18:03, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Lol! That's a good approach- all too often, people !vote keep in AfD citing "lots of sources" but don't even edit the article, then they're surprised when the AfD is closed as delete! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:10, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Avril Lavigne: The final push

Hi HJ, I don't mean to be insistent, but I had completed your GA suggestions two nights ago. I'd love to just get this thing a final push and have it done after all these months. If you still think there are issues, don't hesitate to let me know (or fail the damn thing lol). Thanks! – Kerαunoςcopia_galaxies 18:59, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I'll be on it later this evening. I need to eat! ;) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:03, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I appreciate it, see you then! :D – Kerαunoςcopia_galaxies 19:19, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Text

Is this the text that needed to be removed? I can't see where it was re-added. Dreadstar ☥ 20:37, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

That was indeed the text intended to be removed- I thought I'd deleted that... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

It certainly looks like you deleted it, but for some reason...it's still there. Maybe somebody copied it or changed it when they did a later edit...but I couldn't find where that might have happened. Dreadstar ☥ 20:57, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I made another redaction and it's not appearing in the current version. Hopefully that's it sorted. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:04, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Take 2 successfully removed the visibility fo the text from my edit, but it's still in the history before I removed it. Very strange, must be some glitch with that particular function. The content doesn't appear on before the first redaction, then suddenly appears on the page the next edit after the redaction - but that edit didn't add it. Maybe I'll email an oversight admin to take a look and see what happened.. Dreadstar ☥ 21:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Good idea. They're more knowledgeable with RevDel than we humble admins. At least it's out of the current version and not easily accessible, though. Weird. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:17, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Apparently they are...

. Whoops. You should ahve seen the page BEFORE I tried to fix it, though! Courcelles (talk) 22:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I know. It popped up on my watchlist. It's really not that difficult! I've done it at least twice and "un-transcluded" a fair few SNOW closes and my markup skills are appalling. How can you be an admin if you can't copy and paste 2 lines of code? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:24, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, I screwed it up because I was trying to fix everything in that RFA

That it was broken, though, is hard to understand. Further, not answering the questions first killed the chances that RFA had, IMO (So does letting an editor with under 300 edits nominate you...) Courcelles (talk) 22:28, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunate but true. I've bumped into the nominator and nominee a few times and both are good editors but a cack-handed transclusion of an incomplete RfA is unimpressive. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:32, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Not trying to influence your opinion at all, but I personally think it is harsh to hold the nominators mistake against the nominee. But that said, I have not yet had time to analyse the candidate, so perhaps you know them already. Just felt I should comment though. :) --Taelus (Talk) 22:35, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

If I was a 'crat, I'd remove the RFA, remove all the votes, and tell the candidate to re-transclude it when ready... but I'm not sure how that would go over at this point. Courcelles (talk) 22:37, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

If I were feeling extremely bold, I'd delete the whole thing and tell him to try again when he's ready, but I've manged to go for a few days without being accused of admin abuse and I'm quite enjoying it! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:40, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for photo fix to Douglas Youvan

I learned how to do this from you by usinga diff. Many thanks. Funny photo, huh? Bridgettttttte (talk) 00:17, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome. :) Let me know if I can be of any more help. Whisky drinker | HJ's sock 00:19, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

AL good article

Whew!!!! Thank you so much HJ, and I really, really appreciate your thoroughness. I'll continue to work on the article as the fourth album release nears, and when I'm situated near a library someday, I will track down her biography(ies) and see what I can do about replacing The Mirror entirely, along with a few other references, most likely. That's all for the future though. I only picked up the slack at the end, I certainly can't lay claim to being the only major contributor. I hope those people know who they are :D – Kerαunoςcopia_galaxies 02:23, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Well you did a great job. There's a potential FA in there, but it'd take a lot more work. It was a pleasure working with you anyway- we only seem to bump into each other on Talk:Miley Cyrus but if I can be of assistance in future, do let me know :). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:26, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

"and subtle pestering on my talk page" lol!... You seriously surprised me with that barnstar, I really appreciated it. I agree about the FA, but I think I'm going to take a little break from Lavigne for a short while :D I won't be around the MC boards as much either, the article is in great hands with all the users over there. It was a great pleasure working with you, thanks for all your help and advice. – Kerαunoςcopia_galaxies 02:37, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, if ever you need a GA reviewer, admin or just a friendly ear, you know where I am. ;) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:40, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

thank you

thank you for removing that bias piece on on this day much appreciated toda--Marbehtorah-marbehchaim (talk) 04:06, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Rollback now?

Do I have enough vandalism revertation to reapply for rollback now, and if not, how much more do I need to do? (Contrib|Edit Count) _{{{Tb}} requested} 930913(Congratulate/Complaints) 07:40, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for getting in touch! :) I'm glad your still dedicated to ridding WP of vandalism- we need more people like that (or less vandals, but that's not going to happen any time soon)! Before I grant you rollback, though, I would like to see a few more warnings on the talk pages of vandals. I see you've been using Twinkle, which has a complete index of warnings so you only have to press a few buttons to warn them rather than memorise hundreds of templates (unfortunately, I use the old monobook skin, I've no idea where the button is in the horrible new vector skin). Once you've given them a final warning, you can report them to WP:AIV if the vandalise again (there's a button with Twinkle that does that, as well). If you were to do that and come back in a few days to a week, I'd be more than happy to give you rollback. Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:19, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Kia Cee'd

The Kia cee'd page has been vandalised recently by Warty Dave. Sco1996 | I will respond. 10:11, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Third opinion please?

Could you take a quick look at User_talk:Taelus#Denialism if you have spare time? I would like a third opinion on whether my full protection of the page, and handling of the content dispute, was justified. Contacting you since your in my timezone! Thanks in advance, --Taelus (Talk) 10:54, 8 June 2010 (UTC)