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User:Breein1007

Request concerning User:Breein1007

User requesting enforcement

Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:52, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Breein1007 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

ARBPIA, Discretionary sanctions, warned: (November 2009)

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

• There has been discussions at the Template talkpage: National Parks of Israel. Anyone can clearly see from the entire discussion there that in the end the majority agreed to have either "occupied territories" or mention the occupied territories by name in the template. Then there was a RfM to move an article List of national parks and nature reserves in Israel to: List of national parks and nature reserves in Israel and the occupied territories. You can see the entire discussion here, admin closed it as "no consensus" for the move: After this Breein1007 goes to the template, removed what was agreed at the template discussion and claims "this goes against the consensus of the recent RfC" So with the no-consensus RfM at the article he changed the consensus version of the template to the no-consensus version of the article. I asked the closing admin about this and he said: "I will agree with you that a no consensus decision, does not bestow consensus status across the board for renames to the no consensus name. Each case needs to be considered on the individual merits. As to the contents of the template which is what I think your specific question is. This needs to be discussed on the template talk page and a decision reached there." I went to Breein1007s talkpage and told him this, and then he removes it from his talkpage: And then he goes to the template and once again changes it to the same no-consensus version as the article RfM. Against the consensus at the template talkpage: And then at the talkpage he says: "And as discussed at the other article RfC, National parks "OF" Israel does not imply that they are in Israel." (misrepresenting the talkpage) "so please stop making POV edits with no consensus." He calls other peoples edits that follow the template talkpage consensus for "pov" while claiming it goes "against consensus" which is really a no-consensus from another RfM. And he did this after I pointed out to him what the closing admin had said, and he got no new consensus at the template discussion for the change he made.

• There was a lot of discussions over several articles to change several mountains in the Golan Heights from the Hebrew name to the Arabic name: The closing admin said there was no consensus so there was no change:(At this time the translation of the name was Arabic first, Hebrew second) Then there was talks about adding all the Golan mountains into one single article and having the names with a (/) next to each other. Breein1007 then went and changed the translation to put the Hebrew translation before the Arabic before getting any consensus at all for this change: "putting languages in right order" (once again misrepresenting the consensus at talkpage: "right order") three times he reverts this and gets warned by admin, look at the edit summary when he removed it

• At Golan Heights, a user had removed a quote and misrepresented the quote in the text, she changed it from the quotes: "more than 80%" to hers: "sometimes" I changed this and explained this at the talkpage: Breein jumps in and reverts, tells an IP "please stop edit warring, sock puppet. use the talk page as asked". But if you look at the discussion, the version that Breein1007 reverted to had no consensus, and Breein1007 himself did not use the talkpage as he had asked the IP to do: He just reverted, inserting a sentence that the source did not support, that had no consensus, and that Breein1007 himself did not discuss about at the talkpage while asking an IP to talk about it.

• Types "per talk" in edit summary, but if you look at the talkpage there is no consensus for his edit. He is deliberately misrepresenting the talkpage in his edit summary. He also said at the talkpage that Nick did not "address the issue" which is exactly what Nick did:

• Canvassing: A user goes to Breein1007s talkpage and asks him for help to participate in an edit war: "Need help to fight wih PoV"... Breein then goes to the article and helps him out in the edit war: And they were also talking with each other in Hebrew, in what appears to be about the article:

• Makes at least 10 reverts to Gaza flotilla raid in 1 hour: (I have not counted the 1 rvs or 2 rvs so its probably more then 10) (7) (3) When another editor warned him about this he removed the warning and said "ignoring comments from an unwelcome individual" He got blocked for this.

• Some of the warnings he has received:

Incivility/Behavior:

• Behavior (talking about an admin): "There is this one piece of shit idiot admin"... "he has the reading comprehension of a 5 year old"... "I was kind of looking forward to making a fool out of him for a bigger audience and stripping him of his admin powers"

• Behavior: "What the hell are you talking about"

• Behavior: "deleting bullshit. the truth is that you have been brainwashed and it's really very sad to see black people who understand what it means to be oppressed spewing anti-semitic garbage"

• Behavior: "I would suggest that you either speak for yourself, or ask your doctor for an increase in dose of your meds; seems like your multiple personalities are acting up." (Then ads it again )

• Connects an ANI thread opened about him by coincidence on a Jewish holiday to: "the brutality and disgusting nature of the Arabs in the Yom Kippur War"

• Makes fun of a user who cant speak english well: (Although some have suggested that Ani Medjool faked his bad english, Breein1007 didn't know this. Its the thought that counts.)

• Sabotages a DYK:

• Asks an Israeli admin in Hebrew to give him rollback rights: -

I find it inappropriate that Breein has opened up several long discussions with admins specifically about this AE outside of this AE request, instead of replying here: and notifies an editor who edits on the same side as him in Arab-Israeli conflict articles to one of those off-AE discussions: --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 18:52, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

(November 2009)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Permanent topic ban from Arab-Israeli conflict articles. His editing and behavior has been a long term problem within Arab-Israeli conflict articles. He has clearly failed to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages. He has been sanctioned and warned many times, but it doesn't seem like it helps. He has clearly shown that he cant collaborate with other editors within Arab-Israeli conflict articles and he causes a lot of disruption at them.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

User Breein1007 has since he registered his account in November 2009 been banned 5 times all of these banns are within the Arab-Israeli conflict. He has also been subject to an interaction ban:

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified

Discussion concerning Breein1007

Statement by Breein1007

Comments by others about the request concerning Breein1007

I can comment on Ani Majdul case and on asking Israeli admin to give him rollbacks rights in Hebrew language.

First, in the case of Ani Majdul, everyone on the ANI opened against Breein1007 agreed (including one or two admins), after detailed investigation by uninvolved editor was made and presented on the ANI, that he is most probably editor who write in bad English on purpose and that he's not the one he present himself to be (Arab refugee from Lebanon if I'm correct) both because of what seems as delibrate spelling and grammar mistakes, because of his style of editing and because even he presented himself as Arabic native speaker, he seems not to be able to communicate in very basic level of Arabic. Then, some suggested that he's Breein's sock. Breein seem to noticed the suspicious style of editing on Ani Majdul, he might go wrong anyway with mocking him a little, and there is possibilty that Ani is who he say he's, but the case is very complicated and Breein might feel that Ani mocking everyone so he responded accordingly but this case doesn't make it just to cast sanctions on Breein. If I'm not mistaken, it was monthes ago and the ANI case ended with nothing.

As for addressing Israeli admin in Hebrew. First, the nationality of one admin, let us all agree, is not relevant and we excpect admins who are involved emotionaly or at all in certain issues to be responsible enough to avoid any using of sysop tools in regard to these areas of editing or when dealing with involved editors. There is enough place to assume good faith here as I don't believe he realy thought Israeli admin will give roll backs rights without proper process and not according to WP policy. Second, Breein adressed me many times in Hebrew in issues which have nothing to do with Misplaced Pages, just because he seem to enjoy parcticing the language or something. He do it very frequently on his TP when corresponding with other Hebrew speaking editors in issues concern more with his everyday life than with WP. It's not uncommon that many many editors communicate with other editors in their native language when they have the oppertunity. Most times they even forget to add translation to English. I've seen editors communicating with each other in French, Arabic, Persian and Spanish many times before. No one realy think that it can hide what they write. There are enough very good speakers of Hebrew in both sides of the I-P area of editing and I can even name them. Some of those also have Hebrew tag on their UP. If I'm not mistaken, it was long time ago.

I don't intend to comment on other cases I'm not very familiar with, don't have time to and etc. Infact, these are the two diffs provided by the editor opened this case that I've read --Gilisa (talk) 19:53, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Shuki The past few months had been a welcomed respite from the battleground editing that Supreme Deliciousness and his like brought to the I-P conflict on WP. SD was topic banned on May 1 for 30 days and the quiet persisted. It is apparent though that SD has refused to calm down and decided to turn up the heat again with this frivolous report, somewhat similar to the one he filed on me in April in the hot recent spring. SD is fishing here and with no real point to grab on to. SD was also warned about his battleground mentality a couple of weeks before that in early April. --Shuki (talk) 21:14, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I have already received a topic ban for something I mostly did a very long time ago: If I now have done something wrong, file a new enforcement request. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:38, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

And Breein1007 has just been so this AE is quite redundant, vague and again, frivolous. There is nothing really here to action on except getting a bit emotional and pushing the limits of civility, nothing to do with the arbitration case. --Shuki (talk) 22:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Breein1007s ban on June 1 was only for his edit war on Gaza flotilla raid article, what about the other 99% of this enforcement request? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:33, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Statement by NickCT This is slightly silly. Anyone familair with Breein knows that if one took the time one could provide 1,000s on examples similair to the ones Supreme has offered above. His negative behavior has spanned over a long period of time. That anyone would speak for him here simply goes to demonstrate the disturbing bias that surrounds I/P issues. @PhilK - Sup is right about the recent block being for edit warring. These charges are different. PhilK, I'm a little surprised you were so willing to block me for suggesting Breein was a "bigot", and yet, in the face of the language and behavior above, which seems far further over the line, you do nothing. Is this a double standard? Is there a reason for it? NickCT (talk) 03:45, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Housekeeping

• Just a note for archiving purposes: The editor filing this AE has posted notice at the AN forum. --nsaum75 20:46, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

more comments by Supreme Deliciousness moved up from below as per explicit guideline

This is not true, read the first part of the enforcement request, his long time behavior problem continued yesterday several days after his latest block on June 1. And that same block on June 1 was only about his edit warring at one article: Gaza flotilla raid, what about the other 99% of things he has done in this enforcement request? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:36, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

B, all his incivility or the majority of it is related to Arab-Israel conflict issues, he has been warned many, many times but it doesn't help. And can you please comment on the first part of the request, the template issue, the canvassing and his behaviour at the Mountains in the Golan Heights, isn't this covered in discretionary sanctions? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:53, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

You did not answer about the canvassing part. Concerning the template, its name had consensus, and he changed it against consensus, the article name did not have consensus. So if anyone is gonna be changed to match the other, its not the one that has consensus that is going to be changed to the no-consensus one. I showed him the involving admins comment, and he still changed it. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, I don't know how he can be guilty of canvassing when he was the one canvassed. Blaming him for that is ridiculous. As for the edits themselves, yes, it's edit warring, and if reported, the article could have been locked or a block could have been considered, but it's stale now. --B (talk) 01:48, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

CIreland, concernign (1), the majority of things here, he have never been sanctioned for, only the edit warring at one article, gaza flotilla raid. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:38, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

B, there has been many attempts at intervention. Look how many warnings he received, I posted them in the evidence. Look at his many blocks and interaction ban, all within Arab-Israeli conflict articles. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Note for reviewing admins: The people in this enforcement request that have come to defense of Breein1007, (Shuki, Gilisa, Nsaum75, Jiujitsuguy) are people who edit on the same side as him in Arab-Israeli conflict articles. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 13:52, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

• note to SupremeDeliciousness, please note that absolutely no one on 'your' side has come to support your frivolous report. This usually means that they do not support it at all. --Shuki (talk) 20:58, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
  • The report is not frivolous and referring to it as such is not consistent with granting him the presumption of good faith. You can disagree with SupremeDeliciousness's interpretation of events or proposed remedies without assuming that he is acting in bad faith.--B (talk) 17:54, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

• • • Sorry B, about the use of the word frivolous, that is your opinion and you should respect that I have my own. I have no doubt that especially in this case, AGF is long ago in the past, and now he is acting in bad faith, especially since he does not seem to respect that you and the other admins have put doubts in what he thought was an easy case. He put a lot of effort into documenting old edits by Breein and seeing how doubts of his own intentions are raised and this is being dragged out longer than expected, he evidently is losing confidence in his objective. He keeps commenting here and feels the need to make sure that he is part of the discussion that you admins are having. The above 'note for reviewing admins' is utterly ridiculous and I am disappointed that none of you bothered to comment on this attempt to influence you on disregarding the opposing comments that have been left here by other editors. George actually commented on my page that my edit summary was not civil, but I will quote George about SD's comment above: it increases the level of tension and discord and makes finding solutions for problems harder. Abusive behavior is an indirect assault on the community as a whole. But frankly, how do I identify bad faith? The fact that absolutely no one on 'his' side has come to support him on this, and his demand to totally ban Breein from the I-P area, not merely ask for a cool-down period. SD wants to shut up Breein, and apparently Nsaum75 as well, given the recent comments left on his talk page. --Shuki (talk) 22:24, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Nsaum75

Breein1007's incivil behavior aside, I would like to remind the admins that that some of the POV issues that SD is raising about Breein's editing style, are the same editing styles that helped contribute to SD's topic ban in May. Nobody is perfect and I would ask that the involved parties try to find a solution that doesn't escalate the already tenacious game of "tag" that appears to play out in IP related AE filings. --nsaum75 04:10, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Thats not true. I was topic banned for some comments I made at talkpages mostly a long time ago, and the admin who topic banned me said himself that: "the most compelling and disturbing behavior adduced here is nearly a year old." I was not topic banned for anything that I have brought up here about Breein1007. The comments I made at talkpages were mostly a long time ago so that was why it was a thirty day ban. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 07:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually the admins cited battleground behavior and issues with "naming disputes" on Levant articles, and the POV "re arranging" of WP project listings... which does pertain to part of the accusations against Breein - because he/she himself has contributed to the revert-disruption at some of the very same articles involving naming conventions and translations; That is why I commented on it here. That is also why I think it is important that the admins keep in mind the "tag-team" behavior and editor aggressiveness (fishing, abuse of process, forum/admin shopping, admin canvassing) that has overtake all I-P related AE filings. --nsaum75 13:22, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

He mentioned battleground behaviour, it was some things I had posted at talk pages that was the problem, the things I posted were involving origins of things. And many of them were from a long time ago. I haven't mentioned any WP project rearranging at this enforcement request. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 13:50, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I find it interesting that someone like SD, with his past baggage, can bring a case like this against Breein. It strikes me as a bit hypocritical. I looked at the complaint and it's clear that Breein has already been sanctioned for the subject actions that gave rise to the instant complaint. Issuing a second sanction would be akin to punishing Breein twice for the same alleged offense and that would be manifestly unfair.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 16:32, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Not true, Breein has never been sanctioned for 99% of all things brought up in this enforcement request. And his edit warring at Gaza flotilla raid is unrelated to his general incivility, battle behaviour, and other things he has done at articles brought up at this enforcement request, which he hasn't been sanctioned for. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:54, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Btw, interesting comments from Jiujitsuguy who also left these comments at Breeins talkpage: --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 17:04, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I noticed that comment, and was considering raising it here as an example of breach of BLP, racism, possible libel and other unacceptable behaviour. RolandR (talk) 17:10, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't think comments on talk pages are subject to those rules RR. NickCT (talk) 17:16, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Those rules are applicable across Misplaced Pages, not just on article pages. I suggest asking Jiujitsuguy to remove those comments. -- ChrisO (talk) 17:51, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

(ec)"The BLP policy also applies to user and user talk pages". Similarly, racist or libellous comments are never acceptable in Misplaced Pages. My history with the editors concerned means it would not be a good idea for me to remove this; but I think someone should. RolandR (talk) 18:04, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I stand corrected; however, as a rule I'm against policing user pages. I think it rarely serves to elevate the quality of WP. NickCT (talk) 18:12, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Ahmadinajad called Zionists “the most detested people in humanity,” referred to the Holocaust as “a myth,” accused Jews of playing up Nazi atrocities in a bid to extort sympathy for Israel, called Israel a “fake regime” that “must be wiped off the map,” sponsored a Holocaust denial symposium, murdered members of the Iranian opposition and used his Basij thugs to terrorize peaceful protestors. Considering Ahmadinajad’s hateful past, the comments I made were complimentary. RolandR and ChrisO do you subscribe to these views?--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 18:21, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

These alleged remarks were not made on Misplaced Pages, so they are not relevant to this discussion. My opinion of them is none of your business. RolandR (talk) 18:30, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I've left Jiujitsuguy a warning on his talk page. PhilKnight (talk) 21:08, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Comment by unomi

Re Shuki stating please note that absolutely no one on 'your' side has come to support your frivolous report. This usually means that they do not support it at all. above. Misplaced Pages does not function at its best when it is interpreted as a democracy, having 'X' number of editors jumping in and stating Agree/Disagree adds very little to a conversation and only serves to impede actual decision making, deferring to the mob. In cases such as these the evidence should be at the center of attention. There is simply no point in jumping in and me too'ing when the evidence is this strong, one would hope...

The fact that Breein was blocked for actions on the flotilla article does not in any way invalidate the claims made here,- that Breein is persistently acting in a manner that is in contravention of community norms and is exhibiting behavior that should incur Arbcom sanctioned remedies. Sanctions incurred for past misdeeds do not erase or even negate those misdeeds, only a demonstrated change in behavior can. Remember that we are not here to punish anyone, we are not here to ensure some balance of misdeeds vs sanctions, we are here to ensure a relatively constructive editing environment.

The gross civility violations obviously hinder encouraging a collaborative atmosphere, but the multiple willful misrepresentations of consensus and the actions of other editors absolutely deny it. I could understand if it was a one-off, but as the evidence collected by SD show, it is more of a MO than a slip-up; Specifically, using the 3 oppose vs 4 support no-consensus RfC (on a different article) to muscle through the 'Right ' version on a template is not something that we want to see.

I can understand that there is some frustration, but if editors are not willing to engage in centralized discussion then we are unable to untangle the misunderstandings. The general question of occupied territories has been sought discussed at IPCOLL the discussion has been widely advertised and many of the editors weighing at this venue have also weighed in there, except for Breein.

That Breein has so far refrained from commenting here, and instead engaged directly with commenting admins is, to my mind, deeply inappropriate. I urge all editors to work towards ensuring that our stated community goals and standards are met and enforced. Unomi (talk) 23:48, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning Breein1007

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Agree with Shuki - all of this happened before his block, so I don't think any action is required. PhilKnight (talk) 22:32, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I think some sort of civility probation seems appropriate. With the rest of it, apart from what he was already blocked for, it's hard to make out a definitive "right" or "wrong" party. Some of the incivility is clearly over the top and on at least one occasion more recent than the block a week ago . I would support civility probation. I don't know that a topic ban is warranted, though. --B (talk) 20:59, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, anything is technically covered by the discretionary sanction provision - that's why it's called "discretionary". ;) But in the case of the template header issue, (1) it's silly to fight over the label of the template, (2) it's logical that the template would match the name of the article, whatever that may be, and (3) even if you presume that his preferred title was less preferable, two edits six days apart are hardy sufficient cause to impose sanctions. Regarding the Golan Heights "does Hebrew or Arabic come first" issue, that's (1) a silly thing to argue about, and (2) stale. As I said above, I don't see anything actionable except possibly civility. --B (talk) 22:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm afriad I must disagree with B and PhilKnight, above. Although some of Breein1007's actions have drawn sanctions in the past, I think that this report, combined with even a cursory examination of Breein1007's contribution history, demonstrates a persistent pattern of poor behaviour that has gone unaddressed by isolated blocks. In such a contentious topic area, a collegial approach is especially important and edit-warring, incivility etc. is especially problematic. In my opinion, a topic-ban (articles and discussions) of between one and three months is appropriate; had I come first to this report I would have imposed such a ban but, given that other administrators disagree, I'll naturally leave the final decision to consensus. CIreland (talk) 03:50, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi CIreland, having looked at the evidence presented again, I think my earlier comment was hasty. I suggest you go ahead and apply a ban. PhilKnight (talk) 12:04, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

• I don't agree that anything beyond some sort of civility sanction is warranted, but the discretionary sanction says "any uninvolved administrator", not "any uninvolved administrator with the consent of everyone else who happens to be there", so if you think it's necessary, then do what you will. But I would also suggest that there are other remedies short of an outright topic ban. If revert warring is a problem, then a topic 1RR for this user would resolve that problem. Mentoring is available. A topic ban is not really appropriate unless the user is so irredeemably biased/disruptive/whatever that other intermediate steps would be a waste of time. --B (talk) 14:33, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

• • I am concerned that the reporting party has identified only one edit that I can see that was since the most recent block. I asked them on ANI to post those edits which were more recent than the block and they do not appear to have done so. That would tend to make the whole report stale... Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 18:53, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
• My only real worry is the request in Hebrew for rollback privilege. You simply don't use foreign languages on this Misplaced Pages in those circumstances other than to avoid scrutiny of your request. Stifle (talk) 08:14, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
  • I don't know ... people email such requests all the time. I think the only time I've ever answered affirmatively to one that was emailed to me was when it was someone whose rollback I had removed asking that I restore it ... but I do see such requests via email from time to time. Asking for it in Hebrew can't be any worse than an emailed request. --B (talk) 15:47, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think there is a conflict between two approaches to arbitration enforcement here, both of which are legitimate.

1. One approach treats this in a similar manner to a report at WP:AN3, in which one would not sanction twice for the same incident. According to this approach, we would only give weight to problems since the most recent block.
2. The other approach deals with this report in a similar manner to that used in arbitration - the arbitration committee considers patterns of prior blocks in its findings of fact and imposes remedies accordingly.

When I advocated a topic-ban, above, it was largely on the basis of the second approach because I don't think adminstrators imposing run-of-the-mill 3RR blocks would necessarily look at the overall picture. By contrast, looking at an editor's contribution history overall is what I think should occur at arbitration enforcement. CIreland (talk) 16:14, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Response to CIreland --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:40, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

While I agree that option #2 is more appropriate in general, my concern is (1) there hasn't been a real attempt at intervention and (2) much of the conduct submitted seems more along the lines of a petty squabble than a problem that requires a topic ban. That is why I suggest civility parole and topic 1RR. --B (talk) 16:24, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Response to B --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:45, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Nakh

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Nakh

User requesting enforcement

Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 23:09, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Nakh (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Armenia-Azerbaijan 2

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

# , First revert on June 2 on the Urartu article, of this edit,

1. , Second revert on June 3
2. , Third revert, same day
3. , Fourth revert, June 4
4. , Fifth revert, June 7
5. , Sixth revert, June 8, along with the re addition of this debatable links .

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

# Warning by MarshallBagramyan (talk · contribs)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Formally be warned of AA/2 sanctions and/or placed on 1RR

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Although Nakh has technically not violated the 3RR rule (at least I don't think), he has the unfortunate tendency to revert anyone who rolls back his edits, no matter how controversial. Though I initiated a discussion on the talk page of the article in question and told him about my own concerns on his talk page, he largely dismissed them and continued with the disruptive reverts, even after I told him that he should simply hold everything up and discuss the problems other editors have raised. Alas, this has been going on for almost a week and the revert-on-sight edits aren't bringing the dispute any closer to a resolution. Since this article is actually intimately linked to Armenia and the dispute concerns a section on Urartu's role in Armenian nationalism, I feel that the restrictions in place on AA2, namely 1RR rule, will actually help him to click on the discussion, rather than the revert, button more often.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 23:09, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

To Stifle, I warned him about it here. But it looks like I may have to modify my request to have him be formally be placed under AA/2.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 17:05, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

.

Discussion concerning Nakh

Statement by Nakh

First of all I don't understand why am I responsible for Armenia-Azerbaijan 2 sanction. I don’t belong to any of these groups. If there is some sanctions concerning, Ancient history or Iron age it will be better for me.

I want to thank Marshal for this notification, there was a really need for arbitration. Because there are many acts of vandalism on Hurrian related pages, and I couldn’t request arbitration for all of these users.

Ok! Let’s start from very beginning. There is a serious problem in wiki and in normal life with nationalism. It’s not related only to Armenians, but also some Turk, Kurd and Nakh-Daghestanian groups. (in issues related Hurrians) I’m not going to discuss who’s right in here. But Wiki is becoming nationalists propaganda magazine in Hurrian issues. This was the reason why I abused Armenian Diaspora endlessly removing “As ancestors of Armenians” kind topics.

To response complains against my actions;

Related “unfortunate tendency of removing edits”: I don’t, I just remove edits which are not discussed and aren’t objective, unilateral or including propaganda. But my opponents seem to have "unfortunate tendency of removing edits" without discussing them, I was just reverting it to last objective version.

Related discussion, users from my side have answered all your questions, also there is another discussion which you didn’t responded, for example “navigation templates”, “"nationalism" section” discussion on Talk:Urartu page. Then why did you do these additions without discussing them?

“I feel that the restrictions in place on … will actually help him to click on the discussion, rather than the revert, button more often” Less natism and more answers from your side may help me more, don’t you agree with me?

I kindly ask administration;

1st replace all navigation templates as “Armenian history” or “Turkish history” by templates as “Iron Age” or “Ancient Mesopotamia” at all such disputable pages. That’s objective. See; Nairi, Mitanni, Urartu, Hurrians and so on.

2nd replace “Ancestors of Armenians” topic with “Greco-Roman historiography” which is more objective. (At Mitanni page)

3rd remove Urartu is to Armenians what ancient Britons are to the English, and Gauls are to the French. Claim from Urartu page or take it in quote, because its opinion of a scholar and not generally accepted.

4th Please don’t remove protected status from Urartu page, and add that to Nairi, Hurrian and some more pages.

5th Please ask what do they think to dab and EvgenyGenkin they are dealing with natism problem at both english and russian sides of Misplaced Pages. Nakh 12:18, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually there was an stable version of the page since February 12th. Than on 1st of June started that edit war. Mainly I edited "Armenian Nationalism" section and "Navigation template" to (Iron Age) you can see that last message added by my opponent conserning these sections are; 17:18, 2 September 2009 to Template section at Talk and 14:53, 1 August 2009 to Nationalism section at Talk . Now I'm being blamed for not discussing my edits, so did my opponents discussed theirs? Nakh 13:59, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

"You made more reverts than anybody else, Nakh, and are therefore being considered for a more severe sanction." Yes, I agree. I understand that, I deserve the hardest sanction and it will be very fair. I foreseen it from very beginning, yet did it because was believing in a good reason. I don't have anything to add as defense. Waiting for sanctions. By the way, thank you for giving chance to defend myself and express my opinion. Sincerely Nakh 13:37, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Nakh

• On top of "You made more reverts than anybody else, Nakh", I would also like to underline that, though Nakh accuses his "opponents" (as we were all on the same boat...) of "nationalism", he reintroduced himself an insulting nationalistic and unsourced sentence with his reverts; he couldn't say that he didn't know it: for instance, I pointed out to this sentence three times in my edit summaries. Sardur (talk) 15:53, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning Nakh

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• Please provide a diff of when Nakh was served with notification of the discretionary sanctions. Stifle (talk) 08:17, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
• That service is satisfactory to provide notification of the discretionary sanctions.
• Nakh's motions to amend navigation templates, to change a section header, to change similes, to not unprotect pages and protect other pages, and to ask other users something are denied as no arbitration remedy which they break has been cited. Even if there was such a remedy, they should be moved in a fresh enforcement request.
• Nakh also regrettably seems to think that their edits are so correct that they do not require discussion. This is certainly untrue. In a highly-charged nationalist environment, more discussion is required, not less.
• The perception of what is "objective" and "propaganda" will vary from person to person and is to be determined by consensus, not by Nakh or any other user.
• I am minded to apply a revert restriction to Nakh. This may be a limitation to one revert per 24 hours, per three days, or per week, and may be coupled with a requirement to substantially discuss reverts on talk pages.
• An alternative sanction would be a prohibition on changing navbox templates in the area of dispute.
• I will hear the sides on the most appropriate limitation. Stifle (talk) 08:24, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
  • All other users involved in the edit war have had appropriate action taken against them, including an admonishment, a sanction warning, and another sanction warning. You made more reverts than anybody else, Nakh, and are therefore being considered for a more severe sanction. Stifle (talk) 14:55, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
• It appears everybody has said their pieces; the sanction against Nakh is as follows:
  • Nakh (talk · contribs) is placed on a reverting restriction for three months. He may only revert any page once per 24 hours. The usual exemptions apply (see WP:3RR), but it is explicitly noted that the vandalism exception applies only to simple and obvious vandalism, that is to say edits which any user who had never seen the page before would readily agree are vandalism.
  • Nakh (talk · contribs) is required to place an explanation for any reverts on the article talk page.
  • Violation of this sanction shall be grounds for blocking for an appropriate period and may be reported to WP:AE or WP:AN3.
  • Urartu will be unprotected.
• Appeal of this sanction is possible directly to me, to this noticeboard, or to ArbCom. Stifle (talk) 15:13, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Varsovian

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Varsovian

User requesting enforcement

 Dr. Loosmark  21:50, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Varsovian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/DIGWUREN#Discretionary_sanctions, User_talk:Varsovian#Arbitration_enforcement_warning:_discretionary_sanctions_.28WP:DIGWUREN.29, ().

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

#

<Accusing other editors of calling him racist, not providing diffs. This entire thread seems like a harassment thread, aiming at driving an editor away from a discussion>

<Personal attack and bad faith assumption - discussing another editor in a fashion that shines bad light on them and is not relevant to the ongoing discussion>

<Unnecessary comments about another editor - borderline personal attacks, poisoning the discussion atmosphere>

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

{{{Diffs of prior warnings}}}

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

block or other sanction which would stop such type of behavior

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I believe that diffs like presented above are unacceptable and I am especially disappointed by such behavior because user:Varsovian was very recently sanctioned by user:Sandstein and advised to stop claiming that people have accused him racism when they did not. It did not stop him.

Reply to Strife: Have you read the Digwuren sanction Varsovian is under? We are not talking about just reasonable civility standards (which is always somewhat personal interpretation) but direct violation of his sanction which requires him to provide the diff at the same moment when he is alleging misconduct of another user. He accused me of trying to divert attention from a warning I received. How exactly was I trying to "divert attention"!? He claimed that Kotniski is making accusation of racism without any diffs, is that not in direct violation of his Digwuren sanction? What exactly is the point of having him under such a sanction if he can freely ignore it!?  Dr. Loosmark  09:31, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Reply to Varsovian's statement: I am not quite sure why is Varsovian providing diffs from 2009. Yes I might have made mistakes in the past but I own my errors and those diffs have nothing to do with request against Varsovian. Just briefly: 1) Kotniski has not accused Varsovian of racism, but Varsovian keeps repeating that. 2) He wrote bellow: How is it a personal attack to mention that he’s been warned that week?. Mentioning that I was warned that week is not a personal attack, however implying that I am trying to "divert attention" from being warned is in direct violation of his sanction. 3) I totally reject the bad faith accusation that I have deliberately mistranslated a source. I maintain that my translation was accurate. 4) Claiming that I have a problem "controlling myself" as he claims bellow is uncivil.  Dr. Loosmark  11:07, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Further reply to V.: Varsovian is now stating that he didn't accuse me of deliberately mistranslating a source. Fine. Here is what he wrote: But instead of being happy that I haven’t assumed bad faith and reported him for deliberately mistranslating a foreign language source, Loosmark instead reports me! Why should I be "happy" that he didn't report me for deliberately mistranslating a source? In my opinion his implication is clear: the only reason I could possibly be happy that he didn't report me for deliberately mistranslating a source is if I would have really deliberately mistranslated a source.  Dr. Loosmark  12:46, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Varsovian

Statement by Varsovian

Loosmark's accusations

Third diff he provides. I must admire Loosmark’s front here: the gall he has when complaining about this post is staggering. Loosmark claimed that a Polish source “states precisely that he was in the "Belarusian police" ”. The source actually says “Sawoniuk, który w czasie okupacji służył w granatowej policji białoruskiej,". “granatowej policji białoruskiej” actually translates as “the Blue police in/of Belarus” (for details of granatowej policji see this article). It most certainly does not translate to “Belarusian police”. I assumed and stated that Loosmark had made a good-faith mistake in his translation and state that I am not “accusing Loosmark of misconduct” with his unfortunate mistranslation (despite the fact that Loosmark has translated the phrase in precisely the meaning which supports his PoV). But instead of being happy that I haven’t assumed bad faith and reported him for deliberately mistranslating a foreign language source, Loosmark instead reports me!

Second diff he provides.The same week as being warned he threatens to report me for stating that a if a man who was born in Poland to a Polish mother is not Polish, another man who was born in Poland to a Polish mother is also not Polish. How is it a personal attack to mention that he’s been warned that week?

First diff he provides. No diff? Got me on that one. There is no diff: because the post contains a direct quotation from the post immediately above it! Let’s get one thing straight: if one said to somebody “you are anti-negro” or “you seem to have something against black people”, one’d be calling them a racist. Insert the word Polish or Poles in place of negro or black and you have the same accusations of racism. Strangely Loosmark doesn’t mention Kotniski’s repeated accusations that I am not editing in good faith ( , a quote from that last one “That you're putting unsourced facts into an article, or dishonestly citing sources which don't support what you're writing, or putting off-topic information into an article just to smear a particular nation that you seem to have something against.”) or that the first post in that thread is “You have now made your second accusation that I am editing in bad faith. Kindly refrain from doing and strike out your accusation on the WP:POLAND page or I will request that you are warned of DIGWUREN sanctions.” How is a polite request that somebody doesn’t not make accusations of bad faith editing a “harassment thread”? Loosmark also claims I am accusing “other editors” but he has only provided a diff which mentions a single editor. What an unfortunate mistake.

Loosmark’s conduct and a requested solution
Loosmark has been warned of DIGWUREN sanctions (), topic banned under DIGWUREN sanctions (), placed on revert restrictions () and given a formal warning under DIGWUREN sanctions (“violates Misplaced Pages conduct norms, notably WP:CIVIL, WP:AGF and WP:BATTLE.” ). Since that formal warning, he has in relation to me been warned again for WP:BATTLE behaviour ("Continued misuse of this forum as a battleground will result in sanctions.") and warned again about being civil (). And for good measure a 3RR violation ( ) while he attempted to keep an off-topic argument with me visible. When I asked Loosmark to self-revert he denied that he had reverted me "even once" and accused me of making "bogus accusation." (). However, after I posted about his behaviour on Matthead's talkpage (), he self-reverted () claiming "returned the collapse thing to avoid the usual wiki-drama. i still don't agree with it and will raise the issue at an appropriate board later." He didn't raise the issue.

This all suggests that Loosmark has something of a problem controlling himself when it comes to me finds civil interaction difficult when it comes to me. He and I were having problems at Talk:London Victory Parade of 1946 until I imposed an interaction ban on myself with regard to him (). Loosmark couldn’t resist having the last word () but since then peace has reigned at the article.

Given that the solution has worked well on that page, I suggest that it be extended: i.e. Loosmark and I should both be topic banned from each other. We will not be allowed to reply to each other’s posts on discussion pages or talk pages, we will not be allowed to comment on each other’s edits. We will not be allowed to edit an article for 48 hours after the other has edited it. We will not be allowed to mention each other or even allude to each other anywhere on WP (i.e. talk pages, discussion pages, edit summaries, AE requests, everywhere!). I believe that this action will solve the problem and am only sorry that I haven’t got the strength to simply ignore Loosmark everywhere in the same way that I have managed at Talk:London Victory Parade of 1946.

Further support that Loosmark has 'difficulty' in interacting with me in a civil way come from his reply to my comments. He says "I totally reject the bad faith accusation that I have deliberately mistranslated a source." but I have clearly stated above "I assumed and stated that Loosmark had made a good-faith mistake"! Varsovian (talk) 11:44, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Just to make it clear: in the above I am not alleging any misconduct by Loosmark. I'm sure that when he read my "Loosmark had made a good-faith mistake" and read that as me saying he had "deliberately mistranslated a source", he made that mistake in good faith too. Varsovian (talk) 12:32, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Comments by Kotniski
More of his gems about me smearing Poles (this gave my girlfriend, her kids, my former uni students from when I was working here with Peace Corps and all my colleagues (i.e. some of the Poles who actually know me) a good laugh). I will reply in detail to his comments when I have enough time to (probably not until next week, I intend to be sat in front of the TV this weekend) but could he perhaps quote the part of WP:CIVIL which says ‘It’s perfectly acceptable to be incivil if you are dealing with “people like that” ’? Varsovian (talk) 10:46, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes Kotniski “policji białoruskiej” does mean "Belorussian Police". However, the source actually says “granatowej policji białoruskiej” and, as we both know granatowej policji means Blue Police.

Comments by others about the request concerning Varsovian

What we have here is a strongly POV-motivated editor who gives a very clear impression that his sole purpose on Misplaced Pages is to smear Poland and Poles generally (or wind up Polish editors, I don't know exactly what his motivation is). Anyone with an ounce of experience with these issues knows this - we won't make any progress by trying to pretend such things are not so. So frankly I'm not so concerned with the uncivility of his comments (and I'm sorry if people find what I say back to him uncivil, but Misplaced Pages forces reasonable editors to interact with people like that, so it's understandable if frustration and the desire for simple truth sometimes leads us to call spades spades), as with the inherent and unapologetic biased-ness of his editing. And it's not just him - there are other similar editors (you all presumably know them better than I do) on all sides. If ArbCom and admins really want to solve these issues, they must address the underlying problems of agenda-driven editing, rather than (just) the surface phenomenon of incivility.--Kotniski (talk) 06:17, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

• Oh and "policji białoruskiej" most certainly does translate as Belarusian police - maybe it's a simple linguistic mistake on Varsovian's part clamining that it doesn't, but there is no way in the world that it translates to "Polish police" as he originally claimed. But I'm tired talking to him or taking any further part in this debate - any discussion with him (even though civil on the surface) is destined to consist of this kind of untruths and fantastic original theories. --Kotniski (talk) 11:05, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning Varsovian

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• None of those three diffs appear to me to be outside the bounds of reasonable civility standards. On the contrary, Varsovian is expressing himself quite reservedly and straightforwardly. Stifle (talk) 08:23, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
• To Dr. Loosmark: I see now, this refers to , an existing sanction, rather than a general request for a new sanction. This is actionable; I will hear editors and other admins as to what might be an appropriate sanction. Stifle (talk) 15:08, 11 June 2010 (UTC)