This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Joefromrandb (talk | contribs) at 10:49, 7 January 2011 (→Are We Being a Bit Unreasonable?: correcting dates I listed). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 10:49, 7 January 2011 by Joefromrandb (talk | contribs) (→Are We Being a Bit Unreasonable?: correcting dates I listed)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff) | This article was nominated for deletion on 1 December 2010 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Harold Camping article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
|
| Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 12 months  |
| This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
 | This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
{{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
| |||||||||||||||||||||
| This article was nominated for deletion on 17 June 2008. The result of the discussion was keep. |
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Harold Camping article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
|
| Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
| Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 12 months |
 Archives |
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 360 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 3 sections are present. |
Furtaw's book
The Amazon review by Jeffrey N. Furtaw has nothing to do with Harold Camping, but with the book "Shepherding a Child's Heart" about spanking infants with a rod. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kilowattradio (talk • contribs) 09:28, 7 March 2007.
What is this with the Mr.?
Someone or some people keep on going onto the page and changing "Camping" to "Mr. Camping." I can't tell whether this is because the person or people doing it are trying to laud or insult him. Would whoever is doing this explain why here? In Misplaced Pages we don't refer to people in biographical articles as "Mr." or "Ms." or any such title. Jeremy J. Shapiro (talk) 04:13, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not responsible for the edits but I think I can guess why someone might have done so. Camping's last name is also a gerund. Someone may have thought that made some sentences confusing to read. (E.g., a sentence like: "Camping has been repudiated by most mainstream Christian churches.") —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.231.252.50 (talk) 00:23, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
- I agree, viz.: - "Camping (being outdoors with some buddies in a tent under the stars) is fun", but "Camping (the president of Family Stations Inc.) is not much fun" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.44.98.224 (talk) 11:01, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
- Actually, referring to him as "Mr Camping" or (more commonly) "Mr C" seems to be a "group-speak" thing amongst his followers. I've visited their message boards on yahoo and all of them refer to him that way. I've even seen people accuse others of being disrespectful to him if they refer to him as just "Camping" and insist that he always be referred to as "Mr." So I suspect it was his followers that were changing it. But you are correct, anyhow. People should always be refereed to by just their last names in academic/encyclopedic writing, regardless of if it is a gerund. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.232.40.127 (talk) 00:26, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
Based on Calvinism?
The article makes the statement:
"Camping's theology is based on Calvinism, consistent with his Reformed Church upbringing."
But the claim is not supported anywhere else in the article or by an external reference that I can see. IMO, this sentence should be removed, as it could be read so somehow "blame" Calvinism for Camping's distinctives, or indicate that his theology is logically derived from Calvinism, which most Calvinists would dispute.
-- Bshow (talk) 14:22, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
omg someone PLEASE proofread this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.146.176.132 (talk) 07:01, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Should one refer to Predestination, a Calvin doctrine, and read the content of the entry addressing Harold Camping's theories _ one may hardly see them as doctrinal _ we will find that he is opposed to the Predestination doctrine, thus disassociating his theories with Calvinism thus _ Departing from Calvinist doctrine, Camping teaches a relatively free will for humanity, that humans are not utterly depraved, that salvation is unmerited (not to be achievable by good works (alone) or prayer) and, is a pure act of God's grace; to which idea Camping subscribes. (This portion of the original article, this contributor edited for ease of reading.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by GandpaRol (talk • contribs) 09:43, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Are We Being a Bit Unreasonable?
Certainly I understand and agree with the need to maintain certain quality standards on Misplaced Pages. But the case of Harold Camping is a rather unique one in which, if too strictly applied, the guidelines may actually reduce the factual value and accuracy of the article.
Harold Camping is a nearly 90-year-old Bible teacher. For most of those nearly 90 years, he was little-known outside of the Evangelical Christian community. He sat by his microphone every weekday evening and took phone calls from (mainly) Christians who called in with questions, usually about Bible passages or moral issues.
Practically no one outside the Christian community had any idea who Camping was until he declared the organized churches apostate in 1988, predicted that Christ would return in 1994, and again predicted that Christ will return in 2011. In fact, had Camping not made these statements, it's doubtful that there would even exist a Misplaced Pages article about him. He simply wouldn't be that important or prominent a figure as to warrant one.
The fact, however, is that he has made those statements, which are quite controversial within the Christian community, and are of considerable esoteric interest to many outside that group. But let's look at that for a moment: Harold Camping is a man whose primary reason for prominence are his own unique eschatological teachings, the product of his own exegesis of a book whose newest passages are about two thousand years old.
In consideration of the above, does it really make sense to complain about the fact that self-published sources were used? I think not. In fact, I think in this instance, self-published sources, especially those written by Camping himself, are the best and most accurate sources available. Again, this is a man whose primary basis for prominence is his own unique religious teaching, which he has explained in great detail in numerous publications -- all of which happened to be self-published.
Similarly, does it make sense to complain about the lack of third-party verifiability with regard to a religious figure whose main "claim to fame" consists of his own peculiar doctrinal teachings? What is there to verify? We're talking about religion, whose essence is faith, which by definition means that it can not be verified.
I suggest that we consider these factors, and perhaps back off a bit. This is not your typical sort of biography. 98.14.50.29 (talk) 22:25, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
- I agree with the anon comment above. --Blue Tie (talk) 15:05, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
- I agree as well, in theory. However, let's remember that we have rules here that should be applied universially. WP:IAR as I understand it, is to be used on the rarest of occasions. Although the above comment largely gets it right, it neglects to mention the fact Camping will likely cease to be of much interest to many come May 22nd. Will he still be noteable enough for an article once May 21st has come and gone? If the answer is no, then he shouldn't be noteable enough for one now. Joefromrandb (talk) 10:45, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with the anon comment above. --Blue Tie (talk) 15:05, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
- Biography articles of living people
- All unassessed articles
- B-Class biography articles
- B-Class biography (arts and entertainment) articles
- Unknown-importance biography (arts and entertainment) articles
- Arts and entertainment work group articles
- WikiProject Biography articles
- B-Class Christianity articles
- Low-importance Christianity articles
- WikiProject Christianity articles