Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

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The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
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Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
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the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

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the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
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compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

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ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
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the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
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All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.

Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

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Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Volunteer Marek

Sanction vacated by Sandstein (talk · contribs). T. Canens (talk) 08:22, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in this 2010 ArbCom motion. According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED). Appealing user Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:45, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Sanction being appealed banned for six months from editing articles to change, remove or add names (including translations) in a Eastern European language with respect to a subject that the same article already designates with a name in another Eastern European language. This includes names in other pages that are displayed as part of the article, such as categories, images or templates, and it also forbids moving articles that have a name in a Eastern European language to a name in another language. For the purpose of this ban, "Eastern European language" includes German Administrator imposing the sanction Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) Notification of that administrator Statement by Volunteer Marek This is an appeal of a sanction resulting from this enforcement request: . The sanction regarding myself was enacted based on Sandstein's assessment that: Volunteer Marek has made individual reverts in support of and in conjunction with Jacurek's nationalist edit-warring about names.. The original AE request involved five articles on Polish-Lithuanian topics. These were: St. Anne's Church, Vilnius Cathedral Square, Vilnius Suvalkija Vilnius University Bernardine Cemetery I have never edited St. Anne's Church, Vilnius and Cathedral Square, Vilnius. So obviously I did not "edit war" on these articles. I made one edit to Suvalkija six months ago (August 16, 2010), so obviously I did not "edit war" on that article, nor can I be held responsible for the edit war among different users that took place six months later. That leaves Vilnius University and Bernardine Cemetery where I made a single edit on each of the articles recently. On Vilnius University, after observing edits by User:Lokyz and User:Jacurek I posted to the talk page on March 5th, hoping to initiate discussion. My post went unanswered for four days, hence, on March 9th, I made an edit in accordance with my talk page comment. I was almost immediately reverted by User:Lokyz , even though he had not bothered to respond to my talk page comment in the preceding four days. At that point I did not make any further edits to the article and requested a third opinon , as is recommended by WP:DR (Misplaced Pages:Dispute Resolution). Subsequently, the issue was resolved. There is no way that making a single edit, and requesting other editors' assistance through WP:3O can be considered "edit warring". Bernardine Cemetery is an article I expanded significantly in November of 2010 (and subsequent). On March 4th, 2011, User:Jacurek added the Polish name of the place to the article and he was reverted by User:Lokyz on March 7th, 2011 with the edit summary per talk. Since in my understanding the talk page discussion that took place in December did not support Lokyz's removal, I brought the matter up on the talk page , per WP:DR, and made a single revert of Lokyz here . Note that Lokyz had not participated in any talk page discussion for the previous three months when he made his revert. Still, he immediately reverted me, literally within minutes . At that point, again, I ceased editing the article and, per WP:DR focused on discussing the issue on talk. Neither of these two edits - one on Vilnius University and one on Bernardine Cemetery - can be construed to constitute edit warring. They were made in good faith, along with discussion on talk page, and well in full accordance - in fact they were inspired by - WP:BRD, WP:DR, and WP:EW. Specifically: WP:BRDsays: BRD is not an excuse for reverting any change more than once. - I did not revert anyone more than once. WP:DR says: Most situations are not urgent. Please give both yourself and the other party some time. - I gave plenty of time for other users to respond on talk and only made my single edit when a response did not formalize. WP:DR says: If you need neutral outside opinions in a dispute involving only two editors, turn to Misplaced Pages:Third opinion. - this is exactly what I did. WP:EW says: Misplaced Pages encourages editors to be bold. A potentially controversial change may be made to find out whether it is opposed. - this is what I did at Vilnius University (note that the name I added was not the name that was the subject of the edit war)). WP:EW says: Additional restrictions on reverting are sometimes imposed on particular editors and/or particular pages - but if there was a 0RR restriction on either of these two articles I was not aware of its existence. As far as I know, making single edits on two different articles has never been considered "edit warring" on Misplaced Pages, especially when these edits were accompanied by discussion on talk, and followed by requests for third opinion. As an editor with whom I frequently disagree with put it on my talk page afterward "this (sanction) puts arbitrary in arbitration". If single edits can really be considered "edit warring" this needs to be made explicit over at WP:EW and other relevant policy pages (see also discussion here: ) since otherwise people are going to violate these newly invented rules unknowingly (like I did). This kind of sanction also represent a tremendous extension of power held by admins who apply "discretionary sanctions" - under this interpretation pretty much any kind of single edit anywhere at anytime, no matter how policy-based-and-backed, is subject to sanctions on a whim of some administrator. Therefore I request that this sanction be stricken or at the very least, foregoing my insistence on the principle (and the principalities involved) here, shortened and transformed into something more reasonable and directly applicable (say a ban on removing or adding names from the lede of the articles, since it is extremely difficult to make edits to article text without sometimes removing or adding place names, especially in historical contexts).Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:45, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Sandstein, the EW policy does indeed state that edit warring takes place "when editors who disagree about the content of a page repeatedly override each other's contributions, rather than trying to resolve the disagreement by discussion. " - but in my case there was no "repeatedly" and I did try to resolve disagreement by discussion. Furthermore, I can't be held responsible for the fact that other editors started to edit war after my two separate edits.Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:30, 22 March 2011 (UTC) I should also add that while another admin agreed with Sandstein at the AE request (which isn't surprising), pretty much every other editor who commented, something like seven or eight of them, generally disagreed with the sanction.Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:31, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Also, Sandstein's comment may give someone the misleading impression that I'm also involved in some edit war on the Władysław Syrokomla article. I'm not. I have never made an edit to that article either and the edit war there involves other users.Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:39, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Sandstein, you keep saying "edit warring on four articles". I'm not sure why you say "four articles". As pointed out above, my single edit to Suvalkija was made six months ago, while the edit war occurred recently. Likewise there simply was no edit war at Gdansk (as evidence for example by the fact that User:HerkusMonte was not part of the AE report). It was just some folks interpreting naming policy differently and having a disagreement, which was then taken to WP:Naming conventions] - again, precisely per WP:DR.Volunteer Marek (talk) 20:43, 22 March 2011 (UTC) AGK, I do contest to the contrary.Volunteer Marek (talk) 22:23, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Statement by Sandstein Volunteer Marek correctly states that he was sanctioned for four reverts on four articles, as detailed here. However, these reverts were part of nationalist edit wars about names of places in Eastern Europe, in which names were repeatedly added and removed, often over a period of years. Such conduct is a chronic evil in Eastern Europe-related articles, where much more editing energy is often expended to edit-war about which nation gets to claim a particular place or person than for improving the article (see, for instance, the history of Władysław Syrokomla, most of which is reverts about whether he was Polish or Lithuanian) In this case, as an example, Volunteer Marek's edit to Vilnius University, , was part and parcel of an edit war conducted at the same time by another editor, Jacurek, who made the same or similar edits multiple times (, , , ). As a further aggravating circumstance, Volunteer Marek, then editing as Radeksz, has previously been sanctioned by the Committee for covertly coordinating edits with Jacurek for the purpose of team-based nationalist edit-warring (WP:EEML#Radeksz). He should therefore have known that anything that gives even the impression of continuing such conduct would be viewed dimly. I consider WP:EW to be aimed at seeking to prevent the phenomenon of edit-wars (chains of repeated reverts) as such, rather than repeated reverts by any individual editor. This is supported by the text of the policy: "An edit war occurs when editors who disagree about the content of a page repeatedly override each other's contributions, rather than trying to resolve the disagreement by discussion. ... Users who engage in edit wars risk being blocked or even banned." This is why I believe that in this case, even four single reverts can be grounds for an edit-warring sanction, because these four single reverts continued four edit wars begun by others, often years ago. The proposed sanctions in this case were open for discussion in the admin section of the WP:AE page for two and a half days, in which no administrator opposed them and one supported them. For these reasons, I recommend that the appeal be declined, but I am open to lifting the sanctions on request after a month or two if Volunteer Marek commits not to engage in nationalist edit wars any more, and if his conduct in the interim is unobjectionable (in particular, if he does not engage in nationalist tendentious editing). Sandstein 07:07, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Reply to Malik Shabazz I believe you are mistaken when you say that "After Marek made a single edit—an edit that was different from the one Jacurek had been making—he stopped editing the article. Jacurek started warring to keep Marek's change in the article." This does not seem to be the case, as this chronological sequence of edit shows: Jacurek, Jacurek, Volunteer Marek. Also, in the text from WP:EW, I read "repeatedly override each other's contributions" so that the "repeatedly" refers to the edits of all editors taken together. That is, if A, B, C and D all revert each other once in sequence, C and D are repeating the reverts of A and B, and are therefore "repeatedly reverting". This reading makes sense because it is the edit war as such that disrupts consensus-finding, not simply the reverts of any one editor. Sandstein 20:10, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Reply to HJ Mitchell It is not definitively established that Volunteer Marek was tag-teaming to continue an edit war, but both the chronology of the edits and his previous offwiki-coordinated tag-teaming with Jacurek, as established at WP:EEML#Radeksz, make it a distinct possibility. The reason for his sanction, though, was continuing a nationalist edit-war on four articles, irrespective of whether he was indeed tag-teaming in this case. Sandstein 20:05, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Sanction vacated While there is probably not a consensus to overturn my sanction so far, several uninvolved editors have commented to the effect that my application of WP:EW to this case was novel and unexpected and that Volunteer Marek may have believed in good faith that his continuation of Jacurek's reverts was compliant with applicable editorial standards. Taking this into consideration, I am vacating my sanction and replacing it with a warning not to continue nationalist edit wars by others. Volunteer Marek and other editors editing in this topic area are also warned that if they engage in a pattern of apparently nationalistically motivated name-changing (which I assume is the case where one particular nationality or language is systematically added or removed), this may in and of itself be grounds for sanctions, regardless of whether it is also edit-warring. I believe that this renders the appeal moot. Sandstein 06:19, 24 March 2011 (UTC) Statement by BorisG I strongly support this appeal. The wording of the policy can be interpreted in a number of ways, but no reasonable person should consider a single edit to be edit warring. - BorisG (talk) 15:20, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Repoly to T.Canens: Granted, a single revert may contribute to an edit war, which may call for article protection, but in my view, a single revert is grossly insufficient to warrant a sanction. The hypothetical scenario of an edit war given T.Canens will simply die down and won't cause serious disruption if editors make only single reverts. As far as I understand, the real edit wars discussed here were occurring because other editors enaged in multiple reverts. I strongly believe that sanctions must be proportionate and should only apply if there is a persistent pattern of disruption by the given editor. Please AGF. - BorisG (talk) 00:37, 23 March 2011 (UTC) Statement by Vecrumba Support per BorisG and editors commenting on the original case--including ones I don't always editorially agree with. If we've determined that EE is a bed of "chronic evil" per Sandstein, where exactly is the WP:AGF in that? (Although in fairness I have to also say that WP:AGF has been gamed in the past in EE.) In this particular case, with regard to editors most likely to be engaged in the Polish/Lithuanian etc. naming wars, Volunteer Marek is far from the first to come to mind. Again, I have good relations with a number of the editors involved (across party lines) and am glad to assist. Also, to Sandstein regarding EEML and citing thereof, in my case (and I suspect others), timings of "canvassing" are circumstantial as I explained (and was ignored without even the decency of an acknowledgement) regarding my personally checking Email at times only once a week or less--long after participating wherever I was accused and declared guilty of collusion. Please keep EEML closed and done. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 17:25, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Statement by Piotrus Long story short, making a single edit should not be punishable (unless it is a part of coordinated edit warring or other gaming the system, which this obviously wasn't). In fact, following 1RR and WP:BRD seems to be recommended by our policies and thus is commendable, not warnable. Further, as Sandstein notes, EW referrs to editors who make repetetive edits (the "repeatedly override" part) - which VM, making 1 edit to those article, obviously wasn't. There also seems to be a consensus at talk EW that making one edit should not be treated as an edit war, thus confirming that Sandstein's interpretation of EW was quite a way off. I will note that this appeal should be seen not so much about allowing VM to go back to reverting (which he has not done much in the first place), but about correcting the error in judgment which resulted in punishing an innocent user. I strongly support lifting the restriction from VM, and I suggest everyone thinks about the implications of the remedy in the first place - least they want to find themselves warned, restricted or topic banned for making some random, single revert in the future... PS. Per Peters, I'd appreciate if references to EEML would be kept away. They do nothing but batter AGF and poison the well. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus\| talk} 17:40, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Reply to Sandstein: You write "It is not definitively established" - how about less legalize, and just saying "There is no proof"? Findings about old cases are irrelevant, unless you can prove that the situation is repeating itself. Alleging otherwise is poisoning the well - a logical fallacy which discredits a person being discussed by bringing out unrelated past errors that person made and implying that "because they did something wrong in the past, it is likely they did so again". Obviously, this fallacy is also against AGF (you are assuming VM is doing something wrong, without any proof, where you should be assuming otherwise). Till you can prove there is a relation, please stop making such connections. "the chronology of the edits" simply means he made one revert to an article that others were reverting, nothing more, nothing less. So, after deconstructing your argument by stripping down legalize and logical fallacies, we are left with "continuing a nationalist edit-war on four articles". I will paraphrase this as "VM was sanctioned because he made a single revert to an article others were edit warring on, and making one revert to such an article equals full and sanctionable participation in an edit war" (please correct me if you would disagree with this rephrasing of your argument). I will end by saying that this interpretation of EW is controversial, and not supported by editors discussing this issue at talk EW. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus\| talk} 20:36, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Reply to T. Canens: Sanctioning editors is fine, but only those who make multiple reverts should be sanctioned. A series of single reverts by different editors is unlikely to be disruptive to the article, because such an edit war will peter out after a few edits. Or if it is continued and some editors make multiple reverts, they may be sanctioned - but the sanction should not extend to those who stopped after making a single revert (permissible per BRD, 1RR and such). Your analysis also ignores the fact that an editor may be participating in a talk discussion, and making a revert after days (or weeks, or months) of no reply there from the "other side". Implying an equality between reverting editors can equate editor Z who made multiple reverts to an article and did not participate on talk with editor Y who made a comment on talk, and after days of no reply made an single revert. :You are right that making a series of single reverts and create an edit war in the article, however unless it can be shown that involved editors making single edits are coordinating their edits, they should not be penalized for edit warring. Only those who make multiple reverts should be warned (and if they persist, sanctioned later). And if you look at the case here, what you get is several editors who were making multiple edits and were sanctioned (nobody is complaining about that) and an editor who made one revert and was sanctioned alongside with them (and this is what we are complaining about). So this not a case of A, B, C, D, E, F. This a case of A, B, A, B, A, B, C, A, B, A, B - with C being treated just like A and B. PS. If an article is being targeted by socks, anons or such, there is also protection or semi-protection. But protection is used when sanctions are not possible to enforce (due to socks/ip), or to cool things down. Anyway, nobody is dragging Sandstein to ANI for not recognizing there was an edit war, he did recognize it correctly. He is being dragged here because he included an innocent editor among the edit warriors. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus\| talk} 20:48, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Statement by Malik Shabazz I, too, support this appeal. I believe the diffs from Vilnius University shown by Sandstein, which seem to indicate that Volunteer Marek has jumped into an edit war alongside Jacurek, tell a different story. After Marek made a single edit—an edit that was different from the one Jacurek had been making—he stopped editing the article. Jacurek started warring to keep Marek's change in the article. Why is Marek being held responsible for Jacurek's actions after Marek walked away from the article? Because two years ago they both were part of the EEML. Will Marek forever carry the mark of Cain for his past mistakes? Is there a point at which an editor's good behavior begins to offset the bad things they have done in the past, or does forgiveness never come? While Sandstein quotes the text of WP:EW, I believe he has missed part of his quote: ""An edit war occurs when editors who disagree about the content of a page repeatedly override each other's contributions, rather than trying to resolve the disagreement by discussion." Repeatedly override, rather than discussing. Marek made only a single recent edit to each article, and he began discussions on the articles' Talk pages. According to the language quoted above, Marek appears not to have edit-warred. Finally, Sandstein notes that the proposed sanction in this case was open for discussion for two-and-a-half days without comment. I regret that I was not aware of them, or I would have made comments similar to those made here. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 19:15, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Apologies to Sandstein if I seem to have misread the diffs. I was looking at the links from the (now-archived) complaint against Jacurek, which show Jacurek warring to add "Wilno University" on March 9, not the Polish name Marek had added. I see now that the diffs in your message here are different from the ones in the previous complaint. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 01:36, 23 March 2011 (UTC) Statement by Jacurek I would like to clarify that I was NOT tag-teaming with user Volunteer Marek, I was not aware of the fact that he made an edit or will be editing the articles. We hardly edit the same articles anymore and our edits were purely coincidental.--Jacurek (talk) 01:48, 23 March 2011 (UTC) Comment by Hodja Nasreddin Let's simply follow the policy. According to WP:Edit warring, "A number of experienced editors deliberately adopt a policy of reverting only edits covered by the exceptions listed above, or limiting themselves to a single revert; if there is further dispute they seek dialog or outside help rather than make the problem worse." Hence making only one revert in an article is expected from an experienced editor who does not want to be involved in edit wars. It also tells: "if a revert is necessary, another editor may conclude the same and do it (without you prompting them), which would then demonstrate consensus for the action.". That "another editor" was Marek. Of course, it was precisely the argument that Marek did reverts because Jacurek asked him. But since they both deny it, I tend to assume good faith on their part. Hodja Nasreddin (talk) 14:55, 23 March 2011 (UTC) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Volunteer Marek I support this appeal. Sandstein cites Voluteer Marek's edit to Vilnius University as evidence of an ongoing edit war. However if you look at the edit histories and talk page, VM's edit came three days after the last revert by Lokyz and three days after he posed his question on the talk page regarding the Polish name and nobody answered: Talk:Vilnius_University#name. So I fail to see how his edit of 9 March 2011 with the edit comment "no response on talk for 3 days, name used in plethora of English language sources" could be construed as participating in an edit war, let alone a coordinated edit war. VM first posted his reasoning on the suitability of the Polish name on talk after Lokyz reverted, waits three days, nobody answers, then makes the edit. Lokyz then immediately reverted him but to VM's credit he immediately starts a new discussion on talk Talk:Vilnius_University#third_opinion. It is quite obvious that VM was open to discussion and would have not made that edit if Lokyz or someone else had begun discussing the issue on talk. VM did the right thing by bringing it to talk first, then backing away after his one edit was contested and taking it back to talk, yet he has been sanctioned, seemingly on the basis of a suspicion rather than on the basis of concrete evidence. --Martin (talk) 03:14, 23 March 2011 (UTC) Result of the appeal by Volunteer Marek This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. I've yet to form an opinion on this appeal one way or the other, but am I correct in understanding that this sanction resulted from VM allegedly tag-teaming to continue an edit war? If so, then Sandstein, would you mind elaborating on how you came to the conclusion that's what was going on? HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 19:59, 22 March 2011 (UTC) The idea that one edit cannot be edit warring, while perhaps superficiality appealing, does not hold up under scrutiny. Suppose A made an edit to an article, which was reverted by B, who was reverted by C, who was reverted by D, who was reverted by E, who was reverted by F. It is undeniable that there is an edit war - any admin who rejects a protection request on the ground that there's no edit war because it's all different editors would be immediately dragged to ANI and have their decision reversed. Since there is an edit war, who is edit warring? Not A or B, since they are properly engaging in the BRD cycle. The same cannot be said for C, D, E, or F, whose behavior is materially indistinguishable. The only logical answer is that C, D, E and F are all edit warring, even though each only made one revert, since you can't have an edit war without people who are edit warring. I have no opinion on which one of those three (A, B, or C-F) is a best fit for Marek's conduct in this case, and so no opinion on whether this appeal should succeed. T. Canens (talk) 20:30, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Two reversions in and of itself would not warrant a topic-ban of any length, although it in most cases would certainly warrant that user being placed 'on notice' of discretionary sanctions (and perhaps a standard block for edit warring, depending on the circumstances). The suggestion that these reversions formed a wider pattern of tag-team edit warring is an altogether different matter. Sandstein remarks above that he does not know whether Volunteer Marek was co-ordinating with the other editors (all of whom I presume made the same reverts before his four) or simply held the same point-of-view and happened to revert after they did; I view that as a moot point, unless that WMF grant for electronically-administered truth serum I asked for months ago has finally came in. As it is difficult to tell whether they were co-ordinating, and unless Volunteer Marek contests to the contrary, and unless I have in this comment misunderstood any of the material facts (as I am forming an understanding only from the statements here, inherently trustworthy as they are), I would decline this appeal on the grounds that we should be intolerant of any multiple-editor edit warring. AGK 22:18, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Sanction vacated by Sandstein (talk · contribs). T. Canens (talk) 08:22, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in this 2010 ArbCom motion. According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:45, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed: banned for six months from editing articles to change, remove or add names (including translations) in a Eastern European language with respect to a subject that the same article already designates with a name in another Eastern European language. This includes names in other pages that are displayed as part of the article, such as categories, images or templates, and it also forbids moving articles that have a name in a Eastern European language to a name in another language. For the purpose of this ban, "Eastern European language" includes German

Administrator imposing the sanction: Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

Statement by Volunteer Marek

This is an appeal of a sanction resulting from this enforcement request: . The sanction regarding myself was enacted based on Sandstein's assessment that: Volunteer Marek has made individual reverts in support of and in conjunction with Jacurek's nationalist edit-warring about names.. The original AE request involved five articles on Polish-Lithuanian topics. These were:

I have never edited St. Anne's Church, Vilnius and Cathedral Square, Vilnius. So obviously I did not "edit war" on these articles.

I made one edit to Suvalkija six months ago (August 16, 2010), so obviously I did not "edit war" on that article, nor can I be held responsible for the edit war among different users that took place six months later.

That leaves Vilnius University and Bernardine Cemetery where I made a single edit on each of the articles recently.

On Vilnius University, after observing edits by User:Lokyz and User:Jacurek I posted to the talk page on March 5th, hoping to initiate discussion. My post went unanswered for four days, hence, on March 9th, I made an edit in accordance with my talk page comment. I was almost immediately reverted by User:Lokyz , even though he had not bothered to respond to my talk page comment in the preceding four days. At that point I did not make any further edits to the article and requested a third opinon , as is recommended by WP:DR (Misplaced Pages:Dispute Resolution). Subsequently, the issue was resolved. There is no way that making a single edit, and requesting other editors' assistance through WP:3O can be considered "edit warring".

Bernardine Cemetery is an article I expanded significantly in November of 2010 (and subsequent). On March 4th, 2011, User:Jacurek added the Polish name of the place to the article and he was reverted by User:Lokyz on March 7th, 2011 with the edit summary per talk. Since in my understanding the talk page discussion that took place in December did not support Lokyz's removal, I brought the matter up on the talk page , per WP:DR, and made a single revert of Lokyz here . Note that Lokyz had not participated in any talk page discussion for the previous three months when he made his revert. Still, he immediately reverted me, literally within minutes . At that point, again, I ceased editing the article and, per WP:DR focused on discussing the issue on talk.

Neither of these two edits - one on Vilnius University and one on Bernardine Cemetery - can be construed to constitute edit warring. They were made in good faith, along with discussion on talk page, and well in full accordance - in fact they were inspired by - WP:BRD, WP:DR, and WP:EW. Specifically:

WP:BRDsays: BRD is not an excuse for reverting any change more than once. - I did not revert anyone more than once.
WP:DR says: Most situations are not urgent. Please give both yourself and the other party some time. - I gave plenty of time for other users to respond on talk and only made my single edit when a response did not formalize. WP:DR says: If you need neutral outside opinions in a dispute involving only two editors, turn to Misplaced Pages:Third opinion. - this is exactly what I did.
WP:EW says: Misplaced Pages encourages editors to be bold. A potentially controversial change may be made to find out whether it is opposed. - this is what I did at Vilnius University (note that the name I added was not the name that was the subject of the edit war)). WP:EW says: Additional restrictions on reverting are sometimes imposed on particular editors and/or particular pages - but if there was a 0RR restriction on either of these two articles I was not aware of its existence.

As far as I know, making single edits on two different articles has never been considered "edit warring" on Misplaced Pages, especially when these edits were accompanied by discussion on talk, and followed by requests for third opinion. As an editor with whom I frequently disagree with put it on my talk page afterward "this (sanction) puts arbitrary in arbitration". If single edits can really be considered "edit warring" this needs to be made explicit over at WP:EW and other relevant policy pages (see also discussion here: ) since otherwise people are going to violate these newly invented rules unknowingly (like I did). This kind of sanction also represent a tremendous extension of power held by admins who apply "discretionary sanctions" - under this interpretation pretty much any kind of single edit anywhere at anytime, no matter how policy-based-and-backed, is subject to sanctions on a whim of some administrator.

Therefore I request that this sanction be stricken or at the very least, foregoing my insistence on the principle (and the principalities involved) here, shortened and transformed into something more reasonable and directly applicable (say a ban on removing or adding names from the lede of the articles, since it is extremely difficult to make edits to article text without sometimes removing or adding place names, especially in historical contexts).Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:45, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Sandstein, the EW policy does indeed state that edit warring takes place "when editors who disagree about the content of a page repeatedly override each other's contributions, rather than trying to resolve the disagreement by discussion. " - but in my case there was no "repeatedly" and I did try to resolve disagreement by discussion. Furthermore, I can't be held responsible for the fact that other editors started to edit war after my two separate edits.Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:30, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

I should also add that while another admin agreed with Sandstein at the AE request (which isn't surprising), pretty much every other editor who commented, something like seven or eight of them, generally disagreed with the sanction.Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:31, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Also, Sandstein's comment may give someone the misleading impression that I'm also involved in some edit war on the Władysław Syrokomla article. I'm not. I have never made an edit to that article either and the edit war there involves other users.Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:39, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Sandstein, you keep saying "edit warring on four articles". I'm not sure why you say "four articles". As pointed out above, my single edit to Suvalkija was made six months ago, while the edit war occurred recently. Likewise there simply was no edit war at Gdansk (as evidence for example by the fact that User:HerkusMonte was not part of the AE report). It was just some folks interpreting naming policy differently and having a disagreement, which was then taken to WP:Naming conventions] - again, precisely per WP:DR.Volunteer Marek (talk) 20:43, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

AGK, I *do* contest to the contrary.Volunteer Marek (talk) 22:23, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Sandstein

Volunteer Marek correctly states that he was sanctioned for four reverts on four articles, as detailed here. However, these reverts were part of nationalist edit wars about names of places in Eastern Europe, in which names were repeatedly added and removed, often over a period of years. Such conduct is a chronic evil in Eastern Europe-related articles, where much more editing energy is often expended to edit-war about which nation gets to claim a particular place or person than for improving the article (see, for instance, the history of Władysław Syrokomla, most of which is reverts about whether he was Polish or Lithuanian)

In this case, as an example, Volunteer Marek's edit to Vilnius University, , was part and parcel of an edit war conducted at the same time by another editor, Jacurek, who made the same or similar edits multiple times (, , , ). As a further aggravating circumstance, Volunteer Marek, then editing as Radeksz, has previously been sanctioned by the Committee for covertly coordinating edits with Jacurek for the purpose of team-based nationalist edit-warring (WP:EEML#Radeksz). He should therefore have known that anything that gives even the impression of continuing such conduct would be viewed dimly.

I consider WP:EW to be aimed at seeking to prevent the phenomenon of edit-wars (chains of repeated reverts) as such, rather than repeated reverts by any individual editor. This is supported by the text of the policy: "An edit war occurs when editors who disagree about the content of a page repeatedly override each other's contributions, rather than trying to resolve the disagreement by discussion. ... Users who engage in edit wars risk being blocked or even banned." This is why I believe that in this case, even four single reverts can be grounds for an edit-warring sanction, because these four single reverts continued four edit wars begun by others, often years ago. The proposed sanctions in this case were open for discussion in the admin section of the WP:AE page for two and a half days, in which no administrator opposed them and one supported them.

For these reasons, I recommend that the appeal be declined, but I am open to lifting the sanctions on request after a month or two if Volunteer Marek commits not to engage in nationalist edit wars any more, and if his conduct in the interim is unobjectionable (in particular, if he does not engage in nationalist tendentious editing). Sandstein 07:07, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Reply to Malik Shabazz: I believe you are mistaken when you say that "After Marek made a single edit—an edit that was different from the one Jacurek had been making—he stopped editing the article. Jacurek started warring to keep Marek's change in the article." This does not seem to be the case, as this chronological sequence of edit shows: Jacurek, Jacurek, Volunteer Marek.
Also, in the text from WP:EW, I read "repeatedly override each other's contributions" so that the "repeatedly" refers to the edits of all editors taken together. That is, if A, B, C and D all revert each other once in sequence, C and D are repeating the reverts of A and B, and are therefore "repeatedly reverting". This reading makes sense because it is the edit war as such that disrupts consensus-finding, not simply the reverts of any one editor. Sandstein 20:10, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Reply to HJ Mitchell: It is not definitively established that Volunteer Marek was tag-teaming to continue an edit war, but both the chronology of the edits and his previous offwiki-coordinated tag-teaming with Jacurek, as established at WP:EEML#Radeksz, make it a distinct possibility. The reason for his sanction, though, was continuing a nationalist edit-war on four articles, irrespective of whether he was indeed tag-teaming in this case. Sandstein 20:05, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Sanction vacated

While there is probably not a consensus to overturn my sanction so far, several uninvolved editors have commented to the effect that my application of WP:EW to this case was novel and unexpected and that Volunteer Marek may have believed in good faith that his continuation of Jacurek's reverts was compliant with applicable editorial standards. Taking this into consideration, I am vacating my sanction and replacing it with a warning not to continue nationalist edit wars by others. Volunteer Marek and other editors editing in this topic area are also warned that if they engage in a pattern of apparently nationalistically motivated name-changing (which I assume is the case where one particular nationality or language is systematically added or removed), this may in and of itself be grounds for sanctions, regardless of whether it is also edit-warring. I believe that this renders the appeal moot. Sandstein 06:19, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by BorisG

I strongly support this appeal. The wording of the policy can be interpreted in a number of ways, but no reasonable person should consider a single edit to be edit warring. - BorisG (talk) 15:20, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Repoly to T.Canens: Granted, a single revert may contribute to an edit war, which may call for article protection, but in my view, a single revert is grossly insufficient to warrant a sanction. The hypothetical scenario of an edit war given T.Canens will simply die down and won't cause serious disruption if editors make only single reverts. As far as I understand, the real edit wars discussed here were occurring because other editors enaged in multiple reverts. I strongly believe that sanctions must be proportionate and should only apply if there is a persistent pattern of disruption by the given editor. Please AGF. - BorisG (talk) 00:37, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Vecrumba

Support per BorisG and editors commenting on the original case--including ones I don't always editorially agree with. If we've determined that EE is a bed of "chronic evil" per Sandstein, where exactly is the WP:AGF in that? (Although in fairness I have to also say that WP:AGF has been gamed in the past in EE.) In this particular case, with regard to editors most likely to be engaged in the Polish/Lithuanian etc. naming wars, Volunteer Marek is far from the first to come to mind. Again, I have good relations with a number of the editors involved (across party lines) and am glad to assist.

Also, to Sandstein regarding EEML and citing thereof, in my case (and I suspect others), timings of "canvassing" are circumstantial as I explained (and was ignored without even the decency of an acknowledgement) regarding my personally checking Email at times only once a week or less--long after participating wherever I was accused and declared guilty of collusion. Please keep EEML closed and done. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 17:25, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Piotrus

Long story short, making a single edit should not be punishable (unless it is a part of coordinated edit warring or other gaming the system, which this obviously wasn't). In fact, following 1RR and WP:BRD seems to be recommended by our policies and thus is commendable, not warnable. Further, as Sandstein notes, EW referrs to editors who make repetetive edits (the "repeatedly override" part) - which VM, making 1 edit to those article, obviously wasn't. There also seems to be a consensus at talk EW that making one edit should not be treated as an edit war, thus confirming that Sandstein's interpretation of EW was quite a way off. I will note that this appeal should be seen not so much about allowing VM to go back to reverting (which he has not done much in the first place), but about correcting the error in judgment which resulted in punishing an innocent user. I strongly support lifting the restriction from VM, and I suggest everyone thinks about the implications of the remedy in the first place - least they want to find themselves warned, restricted or topic banned for making some random, single revert in the future... PS. Per Peters, I'd appreciate if references to EEML would be kept away. They do nothing but batter AGF and poison the well. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 17:40, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Reply to Sandstein:

You write "It is not definitively established" - how about less legalize, and just saying "There is no proof"?

Findings about old cases are irrelevant, unless you can prove that the situation is repeating itself. Alleging otherwise is poisoning the well - a logical fallacy which discredits a person being discussed by bringing out unrelated past errors that person made and implying that "because they did something wrong in the past, it is likely they did so again". Obviously, this fallacy is also against AGF (you are assuming VM is doing something wrong, without any proof, where you should be assuming otherwise). Till you can prove there is a relation, please stop making such connections.

"the chronology of the edits" simply means he made one revert to an article that others were reverting, nothing more, nothing less.

So, after deconstructing your argument by stripping down legalize and logical fallacies, we are left with "continuing a nationalist edit-war on four articles". I will paraphrase this as "VM was sanctioned because he made a single revert to an article others were edit warring on, and making one revert to such an article equals full and sanctionable participation in an edit war" (please correct me if you would disagree with this rephrasing of your argument). I will end by saying that this interpretation of EW is controversial, and not supported by editors discussing this issue at talk EW. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 20:36, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Reply to T. Canens:

Sanctioning editors is fine, but only those who make multiple reverts should be sanctioned. A series of single reverts by different editors is unlikely to be disruptive to the article, because such an edit war will peter out after a few edits. Or if it is continued and some editors make multiple reverts, they may be sanctioned - but the sanction should not extend to those who stopped after making a single revert (permissible per BRD, 1RR and such).

Your analysis also ignores the fact that an editor may be participating in a talk discussion, and making a revert after days (or weeks, or months) of no reply there from the "other side". Implying an equality between reverting editors can equate editor Z who made multiple reverts to an article and did not participate on talk with editor Y who made a comment on talk, and after days of no reply made an single revert. :You are right that making a series of single reverts and create an edit war in the article, however unless it can be shown that involved editors making single edits are coordinating their edits, they should not be penalized for edit warring. Only those who make multiple reverts should be warned (and if they persist, sanctioned later).

And if you look at the case here, what you get is several editors who were making multiple edits and were sanctioned (nobody is complaining about that) and an editor who made one revert and was sanctioned alongside with them (and this is what we are complaining about). So this not a case of A, B, C, D, E, F. This a case of A, B, A, B, A, B, C, A, B, A, B - with C being treated just like A and B.

PS. If an article is being targeted by socks, anons or such, there is also protection or semi-protection. But protection is used when sanctions are not possible to enforce (due to socks/ip), or to cool things down. Anyway, nobody is dragging Sandstein to ANI for not recognizing there was an edit war, he did recognize it correctly. He is being dragged here because he included an innocent editor among the edit warriors.

--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 20:48, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Malik Shabazz

I, too, support this appeal.

I believe the diffs from Vilnius University shown by Sandstein, which seem to indicate that Volunteer Marek has jumped into an edit war alongside Jacurek, tell a different story. After Marek made a single edit—an edit that was different from the one Jacurek had been making—he stopped editing the article. Jacurek started warring to keep Marek's change in the article. Why is Marek being held responsible for Jacurek's actions after Marek walked away from the article? Because two years ago they both were part of the EEML. Will Marek forever carry the mark of Cain for his past mistakes? Is there a point at which an editor's good behavior begins to offset the bad things they have done in the past, or does forgiveness never come?

While Sandstein quotes the text of WP:EW, I believe he has missed part of his quote: ""An edit war occurs when editors who disagree about the content of a page repeatedly override each other's contributions, rather than trying to resolve the disagreement by discussion." Repeatedly override, rather than discussing. Marek made only a single recent edit to each article, and he began discussions on the articles' Talk pages. According to the language quoted above, Marek appears not to have edit-warred.

Finally, Sandstein notes that the proposed sanction in this case was open for discussion for two-and-a-half days without comment. I regret that I was not aware of them, or I would have made comments similar to those made here. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 19:15, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Apologies to Sandstein if I seem to have misread the diffs. I was looking at the links from the (now-archived) complaint against Jacurek, which show Jacurek warring to add "Wilno University" on March 9, not the Polish name Marek had added. I see now that the diffs in your message here are different from the ones in the previous complaint. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 01:36, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Jacurek

I would like to clarify that I was NOT tag-teaming with user Volunteer Marek, I was not aware of the fact that he made an edit or will be editing the articles. We hardly edit the same articles anymore and our edits were purely coincidental.--Jacurek (talk) 01:48, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Comment by Hodja Nasreddin

Let's simply follow the policy. According to WP:Edit warring, "A number of experienced editors deliberately adopt a policy of reverting only edits covered by the exceptions listed above, or limiting themselves to a single revert; if there is further dispute they seek dialog or outside help rather than make the problem worse." Hence making only one revert in an article is expected from an experienced editor who does not want to be involved in edit wars. It also tells: "if a revert is necessary, another editor may conclude the same and do it (without you prompting them), which would then demonstrate consensus for the action.". That "another editor" was Marek.

Of course, it was precisely the argument that Marek did reverts because Jacurek asked him. But since they both deny it, I tend to assume good faith on their part. Hodja Nasreddin (talk) 14:55, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Volunteer Marek

I support this appeal. Sandstein cites Voluteer Marek's edit to Vilnius University as evidence of an ongoing edit war. However if you look at the edit histories and talk page, VM's edit came three days after the last revert by Lokyz and three days after he posed his question on the talk page regarding the Polish name and nobody answered: Talk:Vilnius_University#name. So I fail to see how his edit of 9 March 2011 with the edit comment "no response on talk for 3 days, name used in plethora of English language sources" could be construed as participating in an edit war, let alone a coordinated edit war. VM first posted his reasoning on the suitability of the Polish name on talk after Lokyz reverted, waits three days, nobody answers, then makes the edit. Lokyz then immediately reverted him but to VM's credit he immediately starts a new discussion on talk Talk:Vilnius_University#third_opinion. It is quite obvious that VM was open to discussion and would have not made that edit if Lokyz or someone else had begun discussing the issue on talk. VM did the right thing by bringing it to talk first, then backing away after his one edit was contested and taking it back to talk, yet he has been sanctioned, seemingly on the basis of a suspicion rather than on the basis of concrete evidence. --Martin (talk) 03:14, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by Volunteer Marek

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I've yet to form an opinion on this appeal one way or the other, but am I correct in understanding that this sanction resulted from VM allegedly tag-teaming to continue an edit war? If so, then Sandstein, would you mind elaborating on how you came to the conclusion that's what was going on? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:59, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
The idea that one edit cannot be edit warring, while perhaps superficiality appealing, does not hold up under scrutiny. Suppose A made an edit to an article, which was reverted by B, who was reverted by C, who was reverted by D, who was reverted by E, who was reverted by F. It is undeniable that there is an edit war - any admin who rejects a protection request on the ground that there's no edit war because it's all different editors would be immediately dragged to ANI and have their decision reversed. Since there is an edit war, who is edit warring? Not A or B, since they are properly engaging in the BRD cycle. The same cannot be said for C, D, E, or F, whose behavior is materially indistinguishable. The only logical answer is that C, D, E and F are all edit warring, even though each only made one revert, since you can't have an edit war without people who are edit warring. I have no opinion on which one of those three (A, B, or C-F) is a best fit for Marek's conduct in this case, and so no opinion on whether this appeal should succeed. T. Canens (talk) 20:30, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Two reversions in and of itself would not warrant a topic-ban of any length, although it in most cases would certainly warrant that user being placed 'on notice' of discretionary sanctions (and perhaps a standard block for edit warring, depending on the circumstances). The suggestion that these reversions formed a wider pattern of tag-team edit warring is an altogether different matter. Sandstein remarks above that he does not know whether Volunteer Marek was co-ordinating with the other editors (all of whom I presume made the same reverts before his four) or simply held the same point-of-view and happened to revert after they did; I view that as a moot point, unless that WMF grant for electronically-administered truth serum I asked for months ago has finally came in. As it is difficult to tell whether they were co-ordinating, and unless Volunteer Marek contests to the contrary, and unless I have in this comment misunderstood any of the material facts (as I am forming an understanding only from the statements here, inherently trustworthy as they are), I would decline this appeal on the grounds that we should be intolerant of any multiple-editor edit warring. AGK 22:18, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikifan12345

A technical infringement of the topic ban, but assumed to be a genuine error. Accordingly, this request is closed without prejudice to any future appeal, but Wikifan12345 is cautioned to take a more careful approach to his topic ban in future. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 03:41, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Wikifan12345 User requesting enforcement Tarc (talk) 18:01, 23 March 2011 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Wikifan12345 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction or remedy that this user violated WP:ARBPIA#2010 Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it A !vote in AfD directly related to the topic area which this user is banned. comment in same Another. And Another. Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) Warning by PhilKnight (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) (topic banned from 20 Aug 2009 through 31 Dec 2009) (expired) Warning by Timotheus Canens (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) (topic banned from 2 Dec 2010 through 2 Aug 2011) (current) Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction) Extend the current 8-month topic ban for an additional time period, or perhaps reset the 8-month counter? Something should be done to address a long-running issue. Additional comments by editor filing complaint As far as I am aware, topic bans cover the subject matter in its entirety, which includes discussion pages and XfDs. This was the case for Grundle2600 last year, and the text of the current 8 month ban "is banned from all articles, discussions, and other content within the area of conflict, as defined in WP:ARBPIA#Area of conflict," would cover XfDs as well. Tarc (talk) 18:01, 23 March 2011 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested notified. Tarc (talk) 18:03, 23 March 2011 (UTC) Discussion concerning Wikifan12345 Statement by Wikifan12345 I didn't intend to violate the provisions of my topic ban. My ban does not extend to all articles relating to Arab governments. I can see why this edit can be construed as a violation of the strict rules of I/P arbitration enforcement. If necessary I will strike my contributions or perhaps someone from oversight can remove my edits. I am currently under the mentorship of User:Danger so hopefully she can weigh in on this incident. To be honest I planned on appealing my topic ban within the next few months but this request probably eliminates the chance of being paroled. Thank you. Wikifan12345 (talk) 18:24, 23 March 2011 (UTC) @ Tarc. Thanks for the quick response. I have stricken the edits as suggested. @ Danger. I take the issue of mentorship seriously and have posted a response at your talk page, but for clarity, none of the edits you list below fall under provisions of my topic ban. At best, the edits are questionable under our unique mentorship focus, but not in conflict with the rules of ARBPIA. I'm almost certain of this. Wikifan12345 (talk) 19:42, 23 March 2011 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Wikifan12345 If it was an honest mistake and they were ~~stricken~~, IMO I could withdraw this entirely and there'd be no prejudice against any future appeals. Tarc (talk) 18:28, 23 March 2011 (UTC) Comment by Danger I would note that these edits are also part of a pattern of edits (, , , ) violating an extended topic ban that Wikifan agreed to as part of the terms of resuming mentorship with me. My good faith is, frankly, entirely used up with regards to this editor. I see no evidence from his actions in editing or from our mentorship that he has any real intention of changing his behavior and I believe that this series of edits is merely part of his desire to negotiate through violations of his ban rather than to contribute meaningfully to other areas of the 'pedia. It is a shame; I wish Wikifan could bring his passion and attention to detail to work here in a constructive manner. Danger (talk) 19:14, 23 March 2011 (UTC) Result concerning Wikifan12345 This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. Considering that the edits probably did violate the topic ban but that the AfD was only tangentially related to the Arab-Israeli conflict, that is therefore credible that the edits were a mistake and that Wikifan12345 has struck them as suggested by Tarc, I'll close this request without action unless an administrator disagrees. Sandstein 21:14, 24 March 2011 (UTC) I agree that this request should be closed with no action, since Wikifan12345 has admitted the mistake. We assume that he will carefully observe the remainder of his I/P topic ban, which expires on 2 August, 2011. EdJohnston (talk) 03:32, 25 March 2011 (UTC) With three uninvolved admins in agreement, myself being the third, I'll hat this. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 03:41, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

A technical infringement of the topic ban, but assumed to be a genuine error. Accordingly, this request is closed without prejudice to any future appeal, but Wikifan12345 is cautioned to take a more careful approach to his topic ban in future. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:41, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Wikifan12345

User requesting enforcement: Tarc (talk) 18:01, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Wikifan12345 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: WP:ARBPIA#2010

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

A !vote in AfD directly related to the topic area which this user is banned.
comment in same
Another.
And Another.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Warning by PhilKnight (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) (topic banned from 20 Aug 2009 through 31 Dec 2009) (expired)
Warning by Timotheus Canens (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) (topic banned from 2 Dec 2010 through 2 Aug 2011) (current)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): Extend the current 8-month topic ban for an additional time period, or perhaps reset the 8-month counter? Something should be done to address a long-running issue.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: As far as I am aware, topic bans cover the subject matter in its entirety, which includes discussion pages and XfDs. This was the case for Grundle2600 last year, and the text of the current 8 month ban "is banned from all articles, discussions, and other content within the area of conflict, as defined in WP:ARBPIA#Area of conflict," would cover XfDs as well. Tarc (talk) 18:01, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: notified. Tarc (talk) 18:03, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Wikifan12345

Statement by Wikifan12345

I didn't intend to violate the provisions of my topic ban. My ban does not extend to all articles relating to Arab governments. I can see why this edit can be construed as a violation of the strict rules of I/P arbitration enforcement. If necessary I will strike my contributions or perhaps someone from oversight can remove my edits. I am currently under the mentorship of User:Danger so hopefully she can weigh in on this incident.

To be honest I planned on appealing my topic ban within the next few months but this request probably eliminates the chance of being paroled.

Thank you. Wikifan12345 (talk) 18:24, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

@ Tarc. Thanks for the quick response. I have stricken the edits as suggested.

@ Danger. I take the issue of mentorship seriously and have posted a response at your talk page, but for clarity, none of the edits you list below fall under provisions of my topic ban. At best, the edits are questionable under our unique mentorship focus, but not in conflict with the rules of ARBPIA. I'm almost certain of this. Wikifan12345 (talk) 19:42, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Wikifan12345

If it was an honest mistake and they were ~~stricken~~, IMO I could withdraw this entirely and there'd be no prejudice against any future appeals. Tarc (talk) 18:28, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Comment by Danger

I would note that these edits are also part of a pattern of edits (, , , ) violating an extended topic ban that Wikifan agreed to as part of the terms of resuming mentorship with me. My good faith is, frankly, entirely used up with regards to this editor. I see no evidence from his actions in editing or from our mentorship that he has any real intention of changing his behavior and I believe that this series of edits is merely part of his desire to negotiate through violations of his ban rather than to contribute meaningfully to other areas of the 'pedia. It is a shame; I wish Wikifan could bring his passion and attention to detail to work here in a constructive manner. Danger (talk) 19:14, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Result concerning Wikifan12345

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Considering that the edits probably did violate the topic ban but that the AfD was only tangentially related to the Arab-Israeli conflict, that is therefore credible that the edits were a mistake and that Wikifan12345 has struck them as suggested by Tarc, I'll close this request without action unless an administrator disagrees. Sandstein 21:14, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree that this request should be closed with no action, since Wikifan12345 has admitted the mistake. We assume that he will carefully observe the remainder of his I/P topic ban, which expires on 2 August, 2011. EdJohnston (talk) 03:32, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

With three uninvolved admins in agreement, myself being the third, I'll hat this. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:41, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Request notification of User:Lisa re WP:ARBPIA

Notified by HJ Mitchell.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
User:Lisa is involved in serial edits re I/P articles, e.g. Irgun and Deir Yassin massacre. I pointed to seriousness of ARBPIA , and I added the ARBPIA warning to Talk:Irgun. Reading Lisa's reactions (none, or "what is ES") and related Talkpage blanking ( This request contains no diffs of allegedly problematic edits, which is a requirement for a warning. I recommend that you use the standard template, {{Arbitration enforcement request}}, if there are diffs of such conduct. Sandstein 21:17, 24 March 2011 (UTC) I did not request any enforcement. Still, I end up here at this page to write my request, following links. I requested the general (i.e. not personalised) notice to be delivered. I have no diffs at hand of "problematic" edits, except for the histories I referred to (plain, no problematic). Experienced User:Lisa does not seem to get the main points of ARPPIA and its outings. Therefor I ask the boilerplate to be announced to her (as quite probably has been to me). Since only an uninvolved admin can do so formally, says the bottom line, I ask for that here. Without this formal drop, we editors would be at an uneven level (say 3RR vs. 1RR). -DePiep (talk) 21:31, 24 March 2011 (UTC) So, from the boilerplate notice (not a "warning" then by the way): 1: This message does not necessarily mean that your current editing has been deemed a problem; 2: This notice is only effective if given by an uninvolved administrator and logged here. I'd say, all in all, you can take it broadly. -DePiep (talk) 21:46, 24 March 2011 (UTC) I checked Lisa's edits at Deir Yassin massacre. These two edits within 24 hours both look to be reverts, which appears to violate the 1RR rule that applies to I/P articles. Jewish->Israeli ("Purity of arms" is an invention of secular Israelis.) 19:00, 21 March 2011 Jewish->Israeli (Source supplied. Just because the other source had the word "Jewish" inserted by its author (with no source given by him) doesn't make it legitimate.) 00:36, 22 March 2011 Both edits remove the word 'Jewish' which was in the old version of the article, so both can be considered reverts. This is not a trivial change, as the context will make clear. I am notifying Lisa of this discussion. EdJohnston (talk) 04:05, 25 March 2011 (UTC) I disagree. In fact, neither one was a revert. The first was an edit (not a revert). That edit was reverted by User:RolandR, with the edit summary (ES -- see, now I know what that stands for) "Undid revision 420013517 by Lisa. That may be true, but it's not what our source says. If you have an alternative source, please add it." It seemed like a fair request, and by any reading, it was a clear request. While I looked for a good source, RolandR's edit was reverted by User:Brewcrewer. After which, User:SlimVirgin reverted it back once more. By this time, I had found a good source, and went ahead and complied with RolandR's request that I "please add it". I was unaware at the time that there was a 1RR limitation on the page. I am still unaware of any such limitation. No such template exists on the page itself. I believe that User:DePiep is, for some reason, engaging in wikilawyering here. I've never run into him or her in the past. I made exactly two edits on this article, the second one in response to a very polite request from someone who reverted my initial edit. I felt that the request was absolutely in order, and made very courteously, and I complied. DePiep, however, has shown no courtesy, and has generally behaved ill-manneredly. The idea of posting about me on an Arbitration Enforcement page is so utterly over-the-top and out of any proportion that I question his or her motives. I find it difficult to assume good faith in a case like this (not that AGF applies here anyway). - Lisa (talk - contribs) 04:32, 25 March 2011 (UTC) I agree with Lisa. There's one edit and one revert, not two reverts. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 04:43, 25 March 2011 (UTC) You all so silly. Are you really having this debate whether to notify Lisa of the A-I restrictions? Just notify her and get back to building an encyclopedia.--brew crewer (yada, yada) 04:51, 25 March 2011 (UTC) She only made one revert, but like Brew said that doesn't matter, just notify her, it's not like you have to do something wrong to be notified of ARBPIA. Passionless -Talk 05:03, 25 March 2011 (UTC) Regarding Lisa's comment, 'No such template exists on the page itself.' I believe she is mistaken. There is a colorful {{ARBPIA}} banner about three inches high at the top of Talk:Deir Yassin massacre, which mentions the 1RR restriction. It was added in November 2010 by this edit. Since we want to assume good faith of Lisa, I encourage her not to protest so strongly against being notified. It is unnecessary for her to question DePiep's motives. EdJohnston (talk) 05:32, 25 March 2011 (UTC) Seriously? It's just a notification. Assuming you edit constructively, you can completely ignore it. With that in mind, I've notified Lisa. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 06:04, 25 March 2011 (UTC) And with that I'm closing the thread, as this is not a discussion forum and the request has been processed. Sandstein 06:07, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Notified by HJ Mitchell.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

User:Lisa is involved in serial edits re I/P articles, e.g. Irgun and Deir Yassin massacre. I pointed to seriousness of ARBPIA , and I added the ARBPIA warning to Talk:Irgun. Reading Lisa's reactions (none, or "what is ES") and related Talkpage blanking (

This request contains no diffs of allegedly problematic edits, which is a requirement for a warning. I recommend that you use the standard template, {{Arbitration enforcement request}}, if there are diffs of such conduct. Sandstein 21:17, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I did not request any enforcement. Still, I end up here at this page to write my request, following links. I requested the general (i.e. not personalised) notice to be delivered. I have no diffs at hand of "problematic" edits, except for the histories I referred to (plain, no problematic). Experienced User:Lisa does not seem to get the main points of ARPPIA and its outings. Therefor I ask the boilerplate to be announced to her (as quite probably has been to me). Since only an uninvolved admin can do so formally, says the bottom line, I ask for that here. Without this formal drop, we editors would be at an uneven level (say 3RR vs. 1RR). -DePiep (talk) 21:31, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

So, from the boilerplate notice (not a "warning" then by the way):

1: This message does not necessarily mean that your current editing has been deemed a problem;

2: This notice is only effective if given by an uninvolved administrator and logged here.

I'd say, all in all, you can take it broadly. -DePiep (talk) 21:46, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I checked Lisa's edits at Deir Yassin massacre. These two edits within 24 hours both look to be reverts, which appears to violate the 1RR rule that applies to I/P articles.

Jewish->Israeli ("Purity of arms" is an invention of secular Israelis.) 19:00, 21 March 2011
Jewish->Israeli (Source supplied. Just because the other source had the word "Jewish" inserted by its author (with no source given by him) doesn't make it legitimate.) 00:36, 22 March 2011

Both edits remove the word 'Jewish' which was in the old version of the article, so both can be considered reverts. This is not a trivial change, as the context will make clear. I am notifying Lisa of this discussion. EdJohnston (talk) 04:05, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I disagree. In fact, neither one was a revert. The first was an edit (not a revert). That edit was reverted by User:RolandR, with the edit summary (ES -- see, now I know what that stands for) "Undid revision 420013517 by Lisa. That may be true, but it's not what our source says. If you have an alternative source, please add it." It seemed like a fair request, and by any reading, it was a clear request. While I looked for a good source, RolandR's edit was reverted by User:Brewcrewer. After which, User:SlimVirgin reverted it back once more. By this time, I had found a good source, and went ahead and complied with RolandR's request that I "please add it".

I was unaware at the time that there was a 1RR limitation on the page. I am still unaware of any such limitation. No such template exists on the page itself.

I believe that User:DePiep is, for some reason, engaging in wikilawyering here. I've never run into him or her in the past. I made exactly two edits on this article, the second one in response to a very polite request from someone who reverted my initial edit. I felt that the request was absolutely in order, and made very courteously, and I complied. DePiep, however, has shown no courtesy, and has generally behaved ill-manneredly. The idea of posting about me on an Arbitration Enforcement page is so utterly over-the-top and out of any proportion that I question his or her motives. I find it difficult to assume good faith in a case like this (not that AGF applies here anyway). - Lisa (talk - contribs) 04:32, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Lisa. There's one edit and one revert, not two reverts. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 04:43, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

You all so silly. Are you really having this debate whether to notify Lisa of the A-I restrictions? Just notify her and get back to building an encyclopedia.--brew crewer (yada, yada) 04:51, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
She only made one revert, but like Brew said that doesn't matter, just notify her, it's not like you have to do something wrong to be notified of ARBPIA. Passionless -Talk 05:03, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
Regarding Lisa's comment, 'No such template exists on the page itself.' I believe she is mistaken. There is a colorful {{ARBPIA}} banner about three inches high at the top of Talk:Deir Yassin massacre, which mentions the 1RR restriction. It was added in November 2010 by this edit. Since we want to assume good faith of Lisa, I encourage her not to protest so strongly against being notified. It is unnecessary for her to question DePiep's motives. EdJohnston (talk) 05:32, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
Seriously? It's just a notification. Assuming you edit constructively, you can completely ignore it. With that in mind, I've notified Lisa. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 06:04, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

And with that I'm closing the thread, as this is not a discussion forum and the request has been processed. Sandstein 06:07, 25 March 2011 (UTC)