Misplaced Pages

• If you are here to respond to something I've posted on your talk page, feel free to reply there as I will have watchlisted your page.
  

• If you leave a message here on my talkpage I'll respond here unless you ask me to do something different. Thanks!
  

Also, I have a tendency to mull things over before replying. My offline conversations tend to have pauses in them and I often bring this endearing idiosyncrasy to my online conversations too.

Welcome!

Hi there! Welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thanks for your contributions. I hope you like it here and stick around.

Here are a few handy tips for newcomers:

• A few basic rules: Try to write from a neutral point of view, be bold in editing pages, and use Wikiquette.

• A good intro page is the welcome page. The Misplaced Pages tutorial also gives a lot of basic info that will help get you oriented on Misplaced Pages. If you have any other questions about the project then check out Misplaced Pages:Help or Misplaced Pages:Where to ask a question.

• When you post something on a talk/discussion page, you can sign your name by using three tildes (" ~~~ ") for your username and four (" ~~~~ ") for your username and a timestamp. Like you dod on the new uses log.

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If you ever have any questions, comments, or just want to say hi, don't hesitate to write to me on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

Happy editing and have a great day! :-) Akamad 19:48, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Adoption offer

Hi there. I saw you're looking for an adopter, and I'd be happy to help out. I've been on Misplaced Pages for over 3 years, and recently returned to active editing, I've got an adoption program with some basic lessons on key aspects of Misplaced Pages. Let me know on my talk page if you'd like to take me up on the offer. Cheers. Steven Zhang 07:18, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Talkback

Thanks for the Barnstar

Thank you very very much, it's my first burnstar in my career on Wikimedia ;-D ... Anyway, it's my style to personalize deletion (and similar) tags when possible, in a funny way. I'm happy you appriceated... I'll repeat soon :-) . Best of regards. --Dэя-Бøяg 18:12, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Help Request: Kevin Stea afd

Dear Cloveapple, I believe I have been posting to the wrong place for you since I have put things on the Talk:Kevin Stea site rather than here. So I will copy what I have done so far below. Your guidance is deeply appreciated as I learn more about working in wikipedia. You wrote:

The Talk:Kevin Stea page is fine. :-) It's ok to talk here too, but I have a personal preference for the talk page because then more people will see it. After all you never know who will help out with an edit or a comment or a source. And something posted there might help a future editor who would never look here. I'm not too worried about cluttering up the article's talk page because old talk page comments are archived.

I figured out what happened below and I understand why you did it. if you wanted to quote a bunch of stuff you could put it in quotes or link to it. But I wouldn't copy someone's signature again. It makes it look like I posted the stuff below here earlier in the day when I didn't. Probably not a huge deal now but it could easily be a big issue. I'm not going to remove it because I don't think anybody is supposed to change or remove posts on their talk page. (It's sort of a permanent record. You can draw a line through something in your own post if you later change your mind but you can't remove it altogether.) Cloveapple (talk) 07:24, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

"Since some of his work is in Italy I've started Googling for sites in Italian that mention him. (If you go to the advanced Google search you can set the language to Italian. Or you can use the language tools to search.)

So far all I've got is picture of what I think is an Italian magazine article posted on his Facebook from a magazine called Casagrande. If you check the actual facebook page you should be able to download it. I'm not on facebook so I can't try that. (Yeah I know, I try to Google Italian sites and I get the guy's facebook page!! Sad.)" My responses:

Italian Sources

If you use Google.it, it is better to use a modifier with the name to get better results: Kevin Stea ballerino (Kevin Stea dancer), Kevin Stea articoli (Kevin Stea articles) or Kevin Stea di moda (Kevin Stea fashion) which will yield much better results. I am very grateful for your offer to brainstorm searching for acceptable sources to fill out the article. I have heard of Kevin Stea because I was the editor of the English language newspaper in Rome and at the time he was a fashion icon for Italian fashion designers, and was a hot Italian pop culture icon as part of the trio with Luca Tommassini and Lorella Cuccarini. Appearing every Sunday in a "sigla" (introductory olio) of the show Buona Domenica. (You couldn't pick up a teen magazine without some picture and gushy story). On TV (Rai2) he sang, danced, and performed comedy skits. I wonder if videos from that time are acceptable references? They can be found on several italian sites too. Also since this was 1994-1995 a lot occurred before the web got underway so it is hard to find things. For example, you can see he is the cover model for Cosmopolitan (european edition) and has features in many fashion magazines (Harper's Bazaar) etc., but these magazines are either out of print or do not have online archives. Would libraries have them? I look forward to brainstorming with you when I get home tonight so I can get a better handle on direction and technique. Thank you. 64.206.227.62 (talk) 23:11, 7 June 2011 (UTC)Greg McCombs Gmccombs (talk) 04:42, 8 June 2011 (UTC)Gmccombs

Italian sources (2)

BTW, The magazine is not called Casagrande, that is the name of the photographer. The magazine was called Beautiful (or Beautiful Magazine). Other magazines I remember are Chi and S4m (Sport for Men). I also can get you links to Tiramo News with an article from this year and an Italian site with an interview with Lorella Cuccarini looking back on her 25 year career and naming Kevin Stea (who worked with her only one year) as the most memorable "soulmate of a choreograpaher" in all of that time, though she did mention that she worked with another choreaographer for the past 16 years. (I worry about putting long posts on this talk page. Is there a better way to discuss things, offline perhaps? 69.181.192.117 (talk) 01:46, 8 June 2011 (UTC)Greg McCombs

International Sources

I want to figure out how to independently source the international impact of Mr. Stea's work. I know he has a devoted following in India, as part of the tour with India's megastar/singer A.R. Rahman. There are several articles in The Times of India, and I have a link to a video that A.R. Rahman made (which features Stea) as a Thank You to London for their tour there. The tour went thoughout southeast Asia and Canada, and I suppose the United States. There seems to be a fan base in Jakharta, Indonesia but navigating the indonesian sites is beyond me, even with google translator. There is a fan base in Australia, from work done there. I believe hx magazine would be the source for that. There is also a huge fan base in Japan for several reasons. One is the 1990 Blond Ambition Tour in Japan with Madonna. The other is the more recent tour with Japan's pop superstar Seiko Matsuda. The Mitsubishi (English site) on YouTube has every single Blond Ambition performance available on YouTube. I can even link to the Seiko Matsuda video with Mr. Stea. But there is a lot more in Japan, because Seiko Matsuda and Mr. Stea became involved in a national scandal... they did a Japanese commercial where they french kissed, she was topless, married with a kid. It aired every 2 minutes. Then the newspapers 'outed' Mr. Stea for being gay. He was her partner on the tour and also sang on that tour. But negotiating Japanese search engines to document this is way beyond me. I can't begin to figure out the alphabet even with translator. I wish there were a bi-lingual wikipedia editor who could help. Let me know if you have any brainstorms on what diirections to take... I will be compiling a list of links in these areas to get your opinion of what is considered the strongest independent source. Gmccombs (talk) 02:06, 8 June 2011 (UTC)Greg McCombs

Other Sources

There are articles in the NY Times, or photos at least, but it looks like you have to pay the Times to look at them. But is there a way to link to them? If we could somehow link to the NY TIMES we'd find his photo for the romeo gigli G.Gigli (fashion) show back for fall/winter 1996 and again on the front of the arts section, and again with Naked Boys singing (this picture was chosen as the poster for the Movie.) Also there must be a way of documenting that Stea won Star Search an unprecedented 10 Times in 1990 (a Dick Clark show with Ed McMahon) with the dance group New World. The $100,000 grand prize was won on a network television national competition with high ratings. Would that be a notable resource to document? Meanwhile, I'd like to rewrite the opening paragraph that an editor has put up for the article to correct a few things with independent sources. I'll try my hand at it and then ask you about those links too. Grazie. 02:29, 8 June 2011 (UTC)Greg McCombs — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gmccombs (talk • contribs)

Kevin Stea ftd: Revision of first paragraph

I wouldlike to rewrite the 1st paragraph to something like this which will establish two important things 1) He was the assistant choreographer and dance captain for Madonna, and 2) the lawsuit was withdrawn. Below this I have listed sources for the information:

Kevin Alexander Stea (born 17 October 1969) is an American dancer, choreographer, actor, singer, director and model. At the age of 20, he became widely known as the Assistant Choreographer and Dance Captain for Madonna’s Blond Ambition Tour and in the documentary about it, Madonna: Truth of Dare in 1990/1. On January 21, 1992, two dancers from the tour, Oliver S. Crumes, III and the late Gabriel Trupin, sued Madonna’s production company Boy Toy Inc., Miramax and Propaganda Films in Los Angeles Superior Court for fraud and invasion of privacy. When Stea, as Dance Captain, joined the suit, it became an item of international notoriety, to the extent that Stea appeared on the Maury Povich show to talk about the issue. The suit was withdrawn and settled amicably.

SOURCES: Information about the lawsuit: http://absolutemadonna.com/?p=7726

Movie bio listing kevin stea as associate choreographer, dance captain and dancer for Blond Ambition tour… http://www.darkbluefilms.com/wildcat_bios.html

Resume AMCK London – listed as assistant choreographer for Blond Ambition http://www.amck.tv/includes/pdf/artist_cv.php?id=380

DancePlug professional site for dancers. Stea bio lists him as associate choreographer, dance captain and dancer for Blond Ambition tour… http://www.danceplug.com/kevin-stea

IMDb database (other works) lists him as assistant choreographer and dance captain for Blond Ambition tour: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0824084/otherworks

Listed as dance captain and dancer for Blond Ambition by this organization: http://sharetv.org/person/kevin_alexander_stea

NOTE: If none of these sources for dance captain is valid, I’ll bet I could get a statement for the tour’s main choreographer to these facts, could he put that on wikipedia in discussion? Would that help?

Source for dismissal of lawsuit – Hartford Curant: http://articles.courant.com/1994-10-02/entertainment/9409300079_1_madonna-gabriel-trupin-oliver-crumes

The lawsuit is also discussed in the Asiance Magazine article which is now part of the references that they took from my first list and added. Interestingly, one of the sources used for the lawsuit is the book by Madonna’s brother. In the Asiance article there is reference to this book and a reference that the brother apologized to Mr. Stea for the lurid coverage by saying… “It was such a long time ago.” Also in this article Stea points out that he wasn’t a part of the original lawsuit filing, but joined it later.

Also, you noted that there was a picture on facebook but you are not on facebook and cannot download it. The same pictures are on his website kevin@kevinstea.com and can be downloaded from there. I have been using the 8 page resume from this site to help me do searches for independent sources. Maybe the resume should be added to the pages too somehow?

Please tell me what you think and what the next steps might be. Gmccombs (talk) 04:38, 8 June 2011 (UTC) Gmccombs

Response

Thank you for responding with more information. I apologize for my ignorance, since I am just learning how things work. I am fascinated by the wiki process though, I must say. People are so good at research and know how to write so well. They are also so well versed in policies that what they have done to date to improve the article has truly impressed me. I realize I will not be able, at this time to figure out how to make a reference to underscore the facts in a sentence, but I can see that is what makes the article in wikipedia so good, because you can follow references to each assestion and judge the information for yourself. again, I will remember about copying other people's remarks, and simply reply. Gmccombs (talk) 01:53, 9 June 2011 (UTC)Gmccombs

Don't worry. I think I've done something foolish looking a few times now and I'm sure I'll do more. I'm fascinated by the Misplaced Pages process and culture too. I've only just found a beginner's guide to adding references at WP:REFSTART and added my first halting reference. Cloveapple (talk) 02:03, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the WE|ADOPT lead. I will check it out. I am going to follow a suggestion from someone on the talk page and make my first reference attempts to the article since I found some edited news sources to verify statements. For Italy I have an Italian newspaper (an article from 2008), two Italian Magazines (references the 1995 career), and the Hartford Curant newspaper article about the 1992 lawsuit and its dismissal, and I think they are reliable sources. However, the first 3 are in Italian. Do I translate their titles in the reference? Is there a guideline for using foreign references? Doing research does take a long time. I wonder how much time there is to make this article better? I have looked at other articles too that are referenced in this one and I think some of the sources I found can make them better as well. Some of the articles on Madonna's Tours are hardly sourced at all and there are notes on those areas. Gmccombs (talk) 07:07, 11 June 2011 (UTC) Gmccombs

I'm not sure about the non-English references. WP:NOENG & Misplaced Pages:Citing_sources#Non-English_sources give a partial answer. I'd say to ask about a specific example at the Help Desk at WP:HELPDESK.

As for time, an Afd lasts at least 7 days. I've seen one get extended but I've no idea how common that is. Even if the decision isn't to keep the article there's a couple ways of working on it and then re-trying. (I suggested one of those ways at the Afd.) And once the Afd is over you have plenty of time. It's a common joke that Misplaced Pages has no deadline.

The new Italian sources are exciting. They give you a chance to show that he's known for more than suing Madonna (which from my point of view would just make him a bit player in one of her articles). Cloveapple (talk) 07:34, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Japanese Sources

The tour of Japan with Mr. Stea and Matsuda Seiko was called the Glorious Revolution Tour from May-September 1993, I believe. I do note that the CD compilation from the tour was released in 1994 so I may be wrong on the year. The controversial commercial that they made that caused a national stir was for Takano Yuri salon, so these names might help find references. Gmccombs (talk) 19:08, 11 June 2011 (UTC)Gmccombs

Other Asian References This Matsuda tour also went to Indonesia and I can find almost indecipherable references on what looks like Indonesian google and wikipedia. But while researching the topic, I discovered why his appearance in the 1990 Disney movie Newsies was so notable. He is chinese and his appearance in the movie became a milestone in that he was an Asian playing in a non-stereotyped role. As an early role model for Asian actors, I can see that there ia a hollywood social group called "Team Yellow" and they seem to all be friends and have dinners once a year. But beyond discussion on social sites, I fear I cannot find news material on this topic. A further Asian reference, that also involves his modelling career, is that he is the model used in Photographer David LaChappelle's current exposition on Chinese Pop Culture and Bruce Lee which opened in Hong Kong just last month. There is a video on his site of David LaCapelle making these works, and the David LaChapelle site on the Hong Kong Show has the pieces available for online viewing. However, I don't think links to the video and a viewing of the show pieces is enough and would have to find news articles about the show in Hong Kong journals. As I continue researching this article I am truly impressed by the vast variability in this man's career. Gmccombs (talk) 19:35, 11 June 2011 (UTC)Gmccombs

Oops. Should have told you. The University library won't be open again till Monday, so I won't have a chance to follow up on the Japanese newspaper indexes till then. Cloveapple (talk) 01:18, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Ago Oba

Thanks - I may take a shot at fixing it. Although not immediately obvious, the article is not about a living person but about a place and a group of people. The named source, Dr. Lateef Adegbite, does appear to be an expert on Egba history, so this very garbled account probably is based on genuine oral history. I don't know if much of this version can be preserved, but there may as well be an article on the subject. A challenge to make it meaningful though. Aymatth2 (talk) 19:50, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm just glad to know you understand some of it. It looked like something real and important. I also left a note at the Nigeria Wikiproject so maybe someone else will chime in. Cloveapple (talk) 23:18, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

I added clippings of stuff about the place and then, reluctantly, removed the story. According to the original article, in May 2011 someone called Adegun Sanyaolu was given a minor chiefly title in a village (not in GeoNames but I think I found it) to the south of Ago Oba. Probably true, but I can't find a source. There are literally tens of thousands of titles like this, often for sale to the highest bidder. The story then skips back to Sanyaolu's ancestor Opadipo, whose husband Lademo moved to the village from Ago Oba many years ago, and talks about their family. The family legend part draws on a book or article by Lateef Adegbite, for whom I will start an article, and may well be true. But I can't find any trace of the legend online, and neither the legend nor the new chief seem particularly notable. Aymatth2 (talk) 01:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Too bad about the story, but it's still a nice rescue job. it's good to see more spots on the map get filled in. It boggles my mind that my small American hometown has a growing article with multiple editors while big cities elsewhere have so many gaps in their covereage. Cloveapple (talk) 19:14, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

There are huge gaps - but that leaves room for random editors like me who see an article as a sort of verbal jigsaw puzzle with different web sources holding the pieces, and prefer puzzles where they have no idea what the picture will turn out to look like. :~) Aymatth2 (talk) 19:49, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Re:

It's okay, everyone makes mistakes. Hurricanefan25 (talk) 22:53, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

PassmoreLab

I just spent a great deal of time correcting all the ref formats in the article, neutralizing its tone, and converting a bullet list to encyclopdedic prose. Perhaps you might look in and double-check my work. Thanks, Schmidt, 04:48, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm so glad you tackled that. I'd been eyeing it and trying to figure out how to sort it out, but I hadn't done more than pull out some of the stuff that seemed most out of place. I'll take a look at the current version by tomorrow.Cloveapple (talk) 20:00, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

It was a task... as each had to be researched to see if it supported the statement as intended, and then set into proper format. I actualy replces a few with better ones. A bit more grunt work than I would have liked, but it's done. :) Schmidt, 21:21, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

A thought.... as the article is new, I think one of this company's "firsts" might make a decent DYK. Schmidt, 21:26, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Good job. Thanks. Schmidt, 00:33, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome. Sorry I was so slow. I only just realized what a tight time line DYKs have. (I'm still learning.) Cloveapple (talk) 00:39, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Your new article Igor Begelman

I see you created the new article Igor Begelman. This article looks very well put together. There is a good number of citations and references. As you know, Misplaced Pages is not just an "encyclopedia", it's a "community" as well and there will always be resources to help you along your way. Jipinghe (talk) 21:33, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Cloveapple, please be advised that your removal of certain content in the Cheney Mason article is considered Misplaced Pages:vandalism. In this vein, unfortunately, I must issue a warning to you as part of the prerequisite procedures to initiate blocking (should that unfortunate action be necessary as the next step). Specifically, the removal of the unfavorable fact of Mason's having allegedly extended his middle finger in an obscene manner, as photographed by an AP photographer, upon the acquittal of his client, Casey Anthony, in the infamous murder trial is pertinent public information; it's an infamous incident, and it needs to stay public. Other users and I have spent time creating and updating the article, and we can only come to believe your reason for the removal is done for a non-legitimate, ulterior motive, even though you may believe you had good intentions. Please do not take offense to this warning. Diligent007 (talk) 21:36, 12 July 2011 (UTC)