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IP Reverts
Article is currently being reverted by 86.132.134.128 to an inferior version with lots of speculation, removing refs and ref'd info. Help would be appreciamated. Thank you. 80.5.143.72 (talk)
No discussion has been forthcoming from the aforementioned editor. He consistently removes sourced information, because it does not suit him. He has no sources, he merely removes sourced information. Advice and contributions from other editors very much appreciated.80.5.143.72 (talk)
- I think this discussion would be much better if 86.148.111.13/81.157.83.142/86.132.134.128 actually took part and explained himself, and presented us with the sources he has. 195.172.81.201 (talk) 10:48, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Shorter version
in an attempt to bring the article under WP:WAF and WP:NOT guidelines and policies, I've substantially shortened this article. I fully expect this will be reverted, so I won't persist in edit warring over it but I strongly urge that some substantially shorter version of the article that went to AfD be retained, even if the article survives. Misplaced Pages is not a game guide and independent sourcing (apart from movie reviews) is pretty thin. Please consider that when introducing text sections. Protonk (talk) 16:35, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
EGM reference
For some reason, (see the AfD discussion for some links), the specific EGM article referenced here doesn't seem to be in their archives. This could be my fault (bad search string), the archivist's fault (it is a subarticle?) or just plain dumb luck. Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles says that he owns a copy of that mag and I take him at his word. So if this reference doesn't show up online, please take this as a good faith affirmation that it exists and verifies the text. Protonk (talk) 16:49, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
- Most likely the article is listed as just WTFiction... as the "Raccoon City" is a sub-heading/secondary title with "WTFiction!? Deciphering silly stories” as the main title (hence WTFiction!? Deciphering silly stories: Raccoon City”. EGM ran a series (“WTFiction!? Deciphering silly stories”) on various games from November 2007 through February 2008. --Happy editing! Sincerely, Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 17:19, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
- Got it. It was my search term. 3rd page down, WTF fiction as the start. Here is the relevant text for whoever is interested:
It all began in Raccoon city: Just your average American town.. well, except for its population of 100,000 ravening zombies. Alas, the American government nuked the city off the map at the end of RE3, so we'll only be able to revisit its postapocalyptic comforts through prequels and flashbacks.
- It's part of a dramatis personae (it is mostly among characters) for the game. For those who don't have a copy I'll produce the full text on request but I can't copy it here for CC reasons. Protonk (talk) 04:23, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Robot Chicken
It is verifiable and sourced that Raccoon City is parodied by the television show Robot Chicken. Some editors wish to remove the mention of this in the article. As a talk page courtesy, please state your case for discussion. Please note there are additional verifiable references to Raccoon City, that I'm in the process of sourcing as well. Thank you, AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 18:10, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'm with you on this. I don't think we need a synopsis of the sketch in this article but the reference ought to be included, assuming we don't get into the habit of making a "everytime someone mentions raccoon city" section. Protonk (talk) 18:29, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
We currently devote more words to Raccoon City in that sketch than the sketch devotes. It's a brief flash, in a 10 minute episode with dozens of such references. It's the same old "I noticed that they referenced this!" sourced to OR cruft that eventually turns into useless "Pop culture references to " list articles. It's just not encyclopedic material. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 00:53, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- A sourced verifiable instance in which a punch line of a joke directly references Raccoon City is not cruft. It appears your criteria for inclusion is how long something is referenced to. I can source a Jay Leno joke, with a 3 second punch line, and if it is relevant to establishing a greater context then length is not an issue. A nationally syndicated television show, made clear unmistakable reference to Racoon City, by name, in a parody. The content should stay. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 01:04, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- No, it isn't the punchline of a joke. It's a 1.5 second joke in a show built around rapid-fire pop-culture references. It made reference to it briefly in passing. It's an utterly trivial reference...we don't need this kind of trivia in the article.
- If we mentioned every Jay Leno punchline in Misplaced Pages articles, we'd have List of Jay Leno punchlines about Bill Clinton (part one) through one-thousand. And a Jay Leno joke is probably longer and more involved than this joke. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:08, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- If Jay Leno makes a joke regarding a vehicle in a movie, it would be an adequate source to help establish it's "real world notability." In the same token, the Robot Chicken references illustrates that Raccoon City appears outside of the context of the franchise. Misplaced Pages is about verifiability, there is no denying this appearance is verifiable. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 01:13, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- It doesn't establish notability, because it's not a reliable third-party source; just another work of fiction that (BRIEFLY) mentioned Raccoon City as part of an RE reference. Moreover, notability isn't at issue; what's at issue is whether this is a useful fact for building an article. Since it's a 1.5 second joke in a cartoon that makes constant rapid-fire pop culture references, it is not. It's the most trivial trivia. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:40, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- Just a note. Notability criteria applies for article subjects, but does not explicitly apply in article. Again, a verifiable nationally syndicated acknowledgment of what it means to go to Raccoon City (i.e. Zombies will kill you) fits well within the confines of an article on Raccoon City. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 01:45, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- You brought up notability, not me. I brought up "Dude it's a one and a half second joke in a show that is all rapid-fire pop-culture references, that's not encyclopedic material." - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:56, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- And I brought up "Dude, it's appeared in the wild in popular culture. Here's an example from a television show. Here's a verified primary source." You claim rapid fire pop-culture references, but the segment is clearly a parody of several video franchises. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 02:02, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- You brought up notability, not me. I brought up "Dude it's a one and a half second joke in a show that is all rapid-fire pop-culture references, that's not encyclopedic material." - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:56, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- Just a note. Notability criteria applies for article subjects, but does not explicitly apply in article. Again, a verifiable nationally syndicated acknowledgment of what it means to go to Raccoon City (i.e. Zombies will kill you) fits well within the confines of an article on Raccoon City. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 01:45, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- It doesn't establish notability, because it's not a reliable third-party source; just another work of fiction that (BRIEFLY) mentioned Raccoon City as part of an RE reference. Moreover, notability isn't at issue; what's at issue is whether this is a useful fact for building an article. Since it's a 1.5 second joke in a cartoon that makes constant rapid-fire pop culture references, it is not. It's the most trivial trivia. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:40, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- If Jay Leno makes a joke regarding a vehicle in a movie, it would be an adequate source to help establish it's "real world notability." In the same token, the Robot Chicken references illustrates that Raccoon City appears outside of the context of the franchise. Misplaced Pages is about verifiability, there is no denying this appearance is verifiable. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 01:13, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
I've re-instated the original sub-heading for "Raccoon City in Popular Culture". Please don't edit to try to make a point. I understand you believe this source to be trivial, but until consensus regarding it as such is reached please do not arbitrarily change the heading name. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 02:22, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- I wasn't trying to make a point; it is an accurate description of the content below.
- And isn't that your sixth revert to this article in the last 24 hours? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:34, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- I believe your edit was pointy. As a courtesy, and for transparency purposes I spoke to it here on the talk page. You are actively engaged in the same practice you are accusing me of and given your current editing attitude, might I again politely suggest that you refrain from refactoring the section in the interim, while the issue can be adequately discussed on the talk page, to include input from other editors. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 02:42, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- You missed the seven or so "I agree with AMIB" below that. Probably not a good example to illustrate that my attitude is problematic.
- I believe your edit was pointy. As a courtesy, and for transparency purposes I spoke to it here on the talk page. You are actively engaged in the same practice you are accusing me of and given your current editing attitude, might I again politely suggest that you refrain from refactoring the section in the interim, while the issue can be adequately discussed on the talk page, to include input from other editors. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 02:42, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- I believe you're more concerned with protecting this article from being merged or deleted than writing the best articles possible. You are actively engaged in the same practice you are accusing me of, and given that you've reverted multiple editors who have tried to edit this section, might I politely suggest that you refrain from protecting your version of the section in the interim, while the issue can be adequately discussed on the talk page, o include input from other editors. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:47, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- I see what you did there. Clever! - I have no qualms about merging this article along with The Hive article. Where did you get that idea? I'd still be sourcing the same content. And I've not reverted other editors, as you are the only editor to remove the this section. Regarding your attitude however, I too curse in large bolded ALL CAPS to make my points. :-) Cheers, AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 02:52, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- I believe you're more concerned with protecting this article from being merged or deleted than writing the best articles possible. You are actively engaged in the same practice you are accusing me of, and given that you've reverted multiple editors who have tried to edit this section, might I politely suggest that you refrain from protecting your version of the section in the interim, while the issue can be adequately discussed on the talk page, o include input from other editors. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:47, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- Can we agree on this revision? Maybe with/without the tag, but it won't do to get the article locked over whether or not to call ~10 seconds of screen time a parody. This article still ought to be deleted or merged, anyways. Protonk (talk) 03:27, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Real City
Raccoon City is apparently a real city in Kentucky.... link Tunafizzle (talk) 12:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Merge of The Hive (Resident Evil)
Resolved – 16:27, 16 July 2008 (UTC) Agreed
I know this probably isn't the best time for this. But there's been an outstanding proposal to merge "The Hive" into this article. A more concise in-universe summary of The Hive would fit nicely into this article, and includes some decent references. These two articles might be stronger combined than they are in their separate forms. Randomran (talk) 00:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- I think such a merge could only help at this point. Pagrashtak 18:41, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure, you see The Hive is just a part of Raccoon City. I think that if a merge should be done it should be the opposite way. Merge The Hive to Raccoon City. -- iDosh! talk? 20:11, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- That's what we're saying. Pagrashtak 20:17, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- Oh, haha, of course! I'm sorry about that... and I think that would be an excellent idea as it would improve this article great time. -- iDosh! talk? 02:58, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure, you see The Hive is just a part of Raccoon City. I think that if a merge should be done it should be the opposite way. Merge The Hive to Raccoon City. -- iDosh! talk? 20:11, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'd encourage someone to begin the process then. Anyone up to the task? Randomran (talk) 03:41, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
- If someone wants to start condensing the Hive article that would be a big help. Plot details need to be left to the game and film articles, so that this can concentrate on the actual city and structure. Pagrashtak 04:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
- I found an awesome Resident Evil series and look for your self, http://residentevil.wikia.com/Raccoon_City a not very referenced but very well written article. Maybe we could add some info form there ? -- iDosh! talk? 13:33, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
- If someone wants to start condensing the Hive article that would be a big help. Plot details need to be left to the game and film articles, so that this can concentrate on the actual city and structure. Pagrashtak 04:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Done I've completed a merge of The Hive, erring on the side of more information rather than less. We can discuss further clean-up if people believe that it's necessary. Randomran (talk) 16:03, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Undid redirect
I just reverted a redirect to Resident Evil as there was no overall concensus regarding it, and we have a pending merge discussion regarding The Hive. I support a merge of The Hive into Raccoon City. As Randomran mentioned The Hive "includes some decent references. These two articles might be stronger combined than they are in their separate forms." AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 03:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- I actually support AMIB's merge, and it had been discussed at the AFD page with a decent consensus. But I'm willing to slam on the brakes at your request. I think we should work on the merge of "The Hive" and then decide if this article meets wikipedia guidelines. Then we can tackle additional merge requests at that time. Randomran (talk) 04:01, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- The AFD is not the place for merge discussion, that should be relegated to the talk page so that editors not involved with the AFD can also provide input. AFD did have some discussion about merge, and I'm not staunchly opposed, but I also fail to see a "decent concensus" regarding the merge at this time. Discussion in the AFD was all over the map. Let's get The Hive merged first. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 04:08, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
I merged all of the referenced info to appropriate articles. Most of it went into articles other than Resident Evil.
If you don't oppose a merge, why reverse it? Process for process's sake strikes me as wasteful. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:30, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'd support merging The Hive in here first. It's easiest to start the merge from the bottom up. Pagrashtak 04:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'll admit I'm in over my head, although I'm the one who started pushing the idea. I'd appreciate it if someone could help clean up The Hive (Resident Evil). Randomran (talk) 05:45, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
- Ok. Protonk (talk) 06:25, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks for the help guys. I'm okay with either version: before or after the last edit. Let's let it sit for a bit, and if there are no objections, we'll merge it into the current article. Then we'll see if it's still necessary to merge these locations into a broader article about the series. Randomran (talk) 07:16, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
- Ok. Protonk (talk) 06:25, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'll admit I'm in over my head, although I'm the one who started pushing the idea. I'd appreciate it if someone could help clean up The Hive (Resident Evil). Randomran (talk) 05:45, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I oppose merging this article. It also seems that this article is a lot shorter than it was when I last looked at it. What was the basis for removing that content? Everyking (talk) 09:05, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
- A lot of the information was unreferenced and violated WP:NOT#PLOT. The remaining information might be short enough that we're better off merging it into an article about the series. We're going to add information on The Hive (Resident Evil) before we decide that though. Randomran (talk) 15:17, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Explanations were probably given in the edit summaries, but my guess is that the article was shortened to meet WP:WAF and WP:PLOT. That is at least my rationale for removing what I did. Also, if you support or oppose a merger, please note that in the merger "vote" discussion. I am happy to have any input that helps judge consensus there. Protonk (talk) 15:20, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
C Class
Given the sourcing included the Hive merger, I've accessed this article as C class. It still needs help (HOW to include that robot chicken bit?, shorten plot summary) but the sourcing is much more viable and the article reads really very well. Great job to Jappalang and Randomran. Protonk (talk) 04:34, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Same to you. Thanks for helping the discussion move forward. (For future records, the discussion took place at Talk:Resident Evil). Randomran (talk) 06:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Games v. Movies
IPs keep changing information in an annoying manner. For some reason, they keep adding that the Hive is the Raccoon City Underground Research Facility. Despite the fact that they are differently shaped, in different places, different storylines and...oh..the fact that the hive doesn't exist in the game-universe. Should we warn them or should we just wait until they strike, I mean, they don't seem to do it as often now.OsirisV (talk) 19:08, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
youtube
"mario and luigi go to vice city". wait to the end, and you'll see yoshi going to raccoon city - "Raccoon City sounds lovely!" :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.68.200.252 (talk) 23:05, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
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