Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Toure (talk | contribs) at 17:00, 27 August 2011 (→Thank You). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

May 2011

Hi. Why did you remove the conflict of interest banner in the Touré article? Nightscream (talk) 14:46, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi Nightscream. I removed it because it didn't seem to lead the page toward getting better. It's clear I wrote most of the things on the page but there's no "other side" that's being ignored that would fit with a conflict of interest and the banner, while well-intentioned, seems to be an invitation for people to add negative or unwanted things. For example, there are clear notes in the talk section around the page not to add a last name, that's a settled issue as decided by Wiki admins who've reviewed the issue, but people see the coi banner and want to add that, which happened this week.

This is the last warning you will receive for your disruptive edits. As it is clear that you are probably User:Toure, on whose talk page warnings have previously been placed for this behavior, the next time you violate Misplaced Pages's Conflict of Interest guidelines by editing your own article, as well as the No Original Research, Verifiability or Reliable Sources policies by adding unsourced material to articles, as you did with this edit to Toure, you will be blocked from editing. Nightscream (talk) 15:14, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I certainly do not want this to happen and am enthusiastically interested in complying with the rules and the spirit of the rules. To be clear, I have never been previously warned or blocked from editing and would never knowingly do anything that would result in that. Any mistakes made were made without knowing they were mistakes. Indeed I am still not sure what I have done wrong. Can I ask you what is wrong with adding that I am teaching at a university? There is documentation that proves this to be true.

Why is it wrong to add unsourced material to your page? Because of the policies that I mentioned and linked to above. Please read them.

You also haven't explained why you removed the COI banner.

Another one I neglected to mention above: WP:AUTOBIO. Nightscream (talk) 16:51, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I read the policies you linked to. Thank you. The fact that I'm teaching was unsourced, I'm sorry. How can I source that? I've read the pages on citation and don't understand what I need to add to substantiate that. It says in practice you don't need to cite everything. Do I need to add a link to the website for the school? Would that be enough substantiation? This is not original reporting, it's a publicly known fact so I didn't think it needed substantiation but 'm happy to provide it, I'm just not sure what that entails. I went to the sites of professors and they don't have substantiation that they're at whatever university so I'm not sure how to answer the request for sourcing. How does one source a publicly known fact about a teaching job at a known university? I'm trying to follow the rules, I just don't understand how. Also, I did explain why I removed the COI banner. That was the first thing I said in replying to you. It's at the top of this conversation. This page is not autobiography. There's nothing in it that's not already publicly known, there's no original reporting.

You need to cite some type of reliable publication that supports the information in question. A book, a magazine article, a newspaper article, a page on the school's website that lists the staff or spotlights you, etc. You can see citation templates for all different types of media that you can site at Misplaced Pages:Citation templates. What needs to be sourced is a subject of some contention on this site, but in general, anything that may be challenged (and let's face it, just about anything can) should be sourced. During a conversation I had with Misplaced Pages founder Jimmy Wales, he said that anything that not as self-evident and widely known as "Christmas is on December 25" should be sourced.

I apologize for missing your response about the COI banner. I didn't see it because your response was written directly beneath mine in the Edit Field, which when saved, caused it to appear to be tacked onto the end of my first message hear. Mea culpa. :-( For future reference, try to make sure to include blank line between your message and the one before it. You can also distinguish your messages from others by making sure to indent them to the right by putting a colon before the paragraph, one for each column to the right you want to indent it. (See my last message above this for an example.) Make sure also to sign your posts so everyone knows at a glance whose message is whose; you can do this by just typing four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your message, which will automatically show your username and time stamp it. For future reference, it's also best to sign in when editing, in particulary if you intend to edit on an ongoing basis, and communicate with others, as it makes it easier for others to address you as an individual. :-)

In regards to your response, such notices are necessary because Misplaced Pages does not want subjects of biographical articles to edit their own articles, unless it's minor stuff like removing vandalism. Thus, it's necessary that the community be notified when a subject is doing this. If you want to add or make any substantial changes to the article that's about you, it's best to notify the Misplaced Pages community to work with them in doing so, to prevent any conflict of interest, and to keep things neutral. Neutrality isn't merely compromised when "another side" is ignored, it can be compromised when you write anything that may have the appearance or function of promoting or aggrandizing you. I personally do not see how such a banner constitutes any invitation for anyone to add negative things; such things, such as vandalism, do not seem to have such banners as a cause. I'd be more than happy to help you with the article, as I have many other BLPs that I've met. Just drop leave a message at the bottom of my talk page, and if starting a brand new discussion, make sure you place it under a new heading. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 18:24, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Misplaced Pages, at least one of your recent edits did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you.SwisterTwister talk 05:35, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi. This is Toure. I made an edit to the page—I erased something that is no longer true. I was going to teach at CUNY. That is no longer going to happen. So in the interest of honesty I erased it. I have learned that I should not edit my own page but I thought this instance was different or unique in that the fact that that event is not happening is not something that would be announced and is not something most people would know anytime soon so I felt there aren' others who could be trusted to make that edit in a reasonable amount of time. So if I didn't do it now then the unfactual thing would stay up for a long time and possibly create a situation where it looked as though I was lying to make myself look better. Dishonesty about academics is seriously frowned on and I was simply hoping to avoid that misunderstanding. Could you possibly restore the erasure of that fact so that the page can be honest and up to date? 24.193.54.246 12:26, August 17, 2011

In the future, please contact someone else about fixing your article. Editing it yourself, for any reason than removing things like vandalism, is frowned upon.

If you do happen to make edits to it, please do not remove content without providing a brief summary of your edits in the edit summary.

Also, please make sure to sign your talk page posts. You can do this by typing four tildes (~~~~) at the end of them. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 18:32, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Please stop removing content from the Touré article, as you did with this edit. As I informed you above, removing valid, sourced content, without citing a valid, policy-based rationale in an edit summary, can be construed as vandalism, and can result in your being blocked from editing. Please do not make that necessary. If you have valid concerns about the article, please communicate them to Misplaced Pages through its editors or by contacting the Wikimedia Foundation. If you continue to violate the site's policies and ignore these warnings, you will be blocked from editing. Thank you. Nightscream (talk) 12:40, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

August 2011

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from Touré with this edit. When removing content, please specify a reason in the edit summary and discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the content has been restored, as you can see from the page history. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you.   — Jeff G.  ツ 14:42, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

August 2011

Jeff, Please note that on the talk page for the Toure page it clearly states that my last name should not be added to the page. This was decided years ago. Adding it constitutes vandalism. Please help me keep the name from being added rather than going counter to what was decided years ago that the name should not be added.

Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Misplaced Pages, as you did to Touré with this edit, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you.   — Jeff G.  ツ 14:51, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

August 2011

The below note was added to the discussion page for the Toure page by a Misplaced Pages admin in 2006. I don't understand why you've decided to violate it now. The very valid reasons for the removal of the last name are clearly stated by a Misplaced Pages admin who decided the addition of the last name was not constructive. Please stop reverting. The issue about the adding of the last name to this page has already been decided. Thank you.

"I have removed Toure's surname from the article for now. Seeing as this falls under the BLP policy, we should take extra care in protecting people's personal information, especially when they have stated that they don't want that information known. I have raised the issue on the BLP noticeboard, so we should receive some feed back and community consensus as to what to do soon. Until that time, please, do not add Toure's last name to the article. Thanks. Thε Halo Θ 09:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC)"

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to blank out or remove portions of page content, templates or other materials from Misplaced Pages, as you did to Touré with this edit, you may be blocked from editing.   — Jeff G.  ツ 14:59, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

August 2011

Jeff, More from the 2006 discussion about why my last name should not be added to the page:

"As you can see from the discussion on the BLP noticeboard, it is believed that Touré's last name is not relievent to his notability, so there is no need for it to be put into the article. Thε Halo Θ 16:35, 14 September 2006 (UTC)"

Please stop your disruptive edits to this page.

August 2011

Jeff, In 2006 there was an edit war over this issue and a WIKI ADMIN judged that the last name should not be added to the page because it violates BLP policy. Do I need to quote this again? Apparently I do. You are making disruptive edits to the page and I do not understand why. Please read below. Adding my last name is a violation of BLP policy. Why are you violating this policy and repeatedly adding something that has already been judged as something that should not be added?

"I have removed Toure's surname from the article for now. Seeing as this falls under the BLP policy, we should take extra care in protecting people's personal information, especially when they have stated that they don't want that information known. I have raised the issue on the BLP noticeboard, so we should receive some feed back and community consensus as to what to do soon. Until that time, please, do not add Toure's last name to the article. Thanks. Thε Halo Θ 09:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC)"

I'm sorry. If you had included http://enwp.org?diff=75723103 or mentioned this information earlier in a place where I would undoubtedly see it in the context of your most recent edit, such as in the Edit Summary (as you were instructed to do above 18:32, 17 August 2011 (UTC)) or in a post to my user talk page, this unpleasantness could have been avoided. Logging in would have helped, too.   — Jeff G.  ツ 15:36, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Jeff, Thank you. I am sorry, too. I apologize for not being clearer sooner so as to avoid this trouble. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.54.246 (talk) 15:56, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

I accept your apology. For future reference, the BLP Noticeboard discussion is archived at Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Archive1#Toure and the deciding post in that discussion is http://enwp.org?diff=75534994. And you are still not signing all your posts.   — Jeff G.  ツ 16:02, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Template:Z10

Thank You

Favonian, Hello, I welcome your addition to this conversation. I don't understand why I'm even in this "edit war" because this same dispute came up years ago, was discussed, was resolved and an explicit note was added to the page to not add my last name. A Wiki admin judged that my last name should not be added to the page because it violates BLP policy and is not relevant to my notability. Today someone decided to ignore that and add the name and revert my attempts to remove this vandalism. I will definitely request page protection because my page has been violated repeatedly today. I am merely trying to keep non-relevant information off of the page, information that has already been judged by Wiki admins as something that should not be added to the page. I am removing it because Wiki has already judged that it should not be there because of BLP policy. The person who keeps reverting is not giving any reason why they keep adding it back.

First of all, avoid using the word "vandalism" in this case. The word has a fairly specific meaning on Misplaced Pages (WP:Vandalism), and it has nothing to do with the present situation. As far as I can see, a reference to a reliable source (The Huffington Post) mentioning your last name was added. I really don't see how this violates our BLP policy, as names are considered a fairly standard bit of encyclopedic information, and it is publicly available from a secondary source. You were definitely edit warring and crossed the bright line defined by the three-revert rule, hence the temporary block. Favonian (talk) 15:36, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

I understand you completely. I was edit warring. I apologize for that. I did not want to be doing that because I understand and agree that that is not good for everyone. Jeff, who I was edit warring with has apologized and agreed that the name need not be added. My last name is not generally a publicly known piece of information and I work hard to keep it from public records and it does not relate to my notability. As I said in 2006 there was a discussion about this on the BLP noticeboard and it was believed that my last name is not relevent to his notability, so there is no need for it to be put into the article. The person who put it on Huffington Post is a former friend who discovered the name by violating my privacy while in my house and was immediately made to leave because of that. He is now trying to show off that he knows the name even though he knows that it is something I do not want known. Many articles written about me have not included this name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.54.246 (talk) 15:48, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

unblock|reason= 1 The edit war is over. Jeff has apologized for the edit he made and we will not be going back and forth about this any more. I apologize for being a part of it. Edit wars are bad for everyone and I do not want to edit war ever. This is the only issue over which I would ever be in an edit war. It is very important for me to keep my last name private. It is not part of how I am known. 2 I was trying to keep the page aligned with what was judged to be right the last time there was an edit war over this issue when it was judged that my last name should not be added to the page because it is not relevant to my notability. 3 I will try to resolve this issue in other ways such as page protection, which I did not know exists.

How very peculiar. Alright, as the opposition seems to have agreed to leaving your name out of the article, I'll unblock you with a stern warning to a) not take the word "vandalism" in vain, b) count to three when you revert and c) follow Jeff's advice and log in. Favonian (talk) 15:54, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. I appreciate that. I take Misplaced Pages very seriously but I do not know all of its policies. I will not apply the word vandalism to the addition of my last name. (Occasionally people write on my page something like "He is gay" even though I am married (to a woman) with children. That is obviously vandalism.) I accept that adding my last name does not constitute vandalism in Wiki terms but I would say that in spirit it kindof does because most people who add it do so knowing that I don't want it known, so they add it as a passive-aggressive attack to me. But I accept your direction to never again use vandalism in the way I did earlier. I am happy to log in before making changes. But it is very important to me that my last name not become part of my page. If that happened I would seriously consider deleting it. I do not say this as a threat at all, I would be very sad to not be part of the Wiki encyclopedia and not being a part of Wiki would be far worse for me than for Wiki. But it would be devastating to me to go more than two decades not using my last name in any context and keeping it away from everyone as much as possible only to have it pasted on my Wiki page, ruining 20 plus years of not using it. (My entire writing career, even when I was writing for my college newspaper, has me writing only as Toure, never employing my last name.) So what do you propose I do? Apply for page protection on this issue? Is there something else I can do as this issue has repeatedly been decided but some people come by and decide to add it anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.54.246 (talk) 16:04, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

I think including the text "WP:BLPVIO http://enwp.org?diff=75534994" without quotes in your Edit Summary when reverting addition of your surname would work.   — Jeff G.  ツ 16:10, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) If it happens repeatedly, you can apply for temporary protection at WP:RFPP. Whether it will be granted is uncertain, as the reviewing admin may be as puzzled as I am by your quest to suppress your last name. That will be something of an up-hill battle, as the proverbial cat seems to be out of the sack. (PS: and please do remember those four tildes to sign your posts!) Favonian (talk) 16:13, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

For my part, I'm sorry for re-adding the bit about his last name, as I was unaware of the previous decision to omit it. I have myself have removed information from biographical articles in the past when the subject requested it; had Toure made this point to me or in his edit summary, I would not have re-added it. In any event, adding such information is certainly not "vandalism", but now that I'm aware of his wishes, I'll be sure not to re-add it. Nightscream (talk) 16:14, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

I agree. To mitigate the Streisand effect, I suggest revdeletion and would not be opposed to revdeletion of all my contributions on this subject.   — Jeff G.  ツ 16:18, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for this, guys. Toure.

Nightscream Nightscream, Thank you for your note. Going forward can you please help keep the last name off of the page? As previously stated that name is not part of the Toure story. Most of my friends don't know my last name and if they find out it's never because I've told them. If people ask what my last name is I tell them I don't use it. When my parents come to my public events they know not to tell people our last name. So you see the one-name thing is not just for public activities, it extends deep into my private life. It's my long-held desire to be known only as Toure to everyone I encounter professionally and personally.

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