This is an old revision of this page, as edited by DreamFieldArts (talk | contribs) at 19:28, 26 February 2012 (→deletions). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 19:28, 26 February 2012 by DreamFieldArts (talk | contribs) (→deletions)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)Regarding endospore staining
I don't think it's appropriate to add endospore staining directly to the microbiology page. There's a number of different stains used in microbiology, and even endospore staining can be used to describe at least two different staining methods. There are no other staining techniques mentioned on the microbiology page (like the gram stain, negative stains, flagellar stains, the acid-fast stain, etc.), so it seems weird to mention endospore staining while ignoring every other stain. It might be better to start a page for stains used in microbiology and histology and then link to that page from the microbiology page. What do you think? -NorsemanII (talk) 02:38, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Speedy Deletion request Rijman Groenink
Hi, You requested a Speedy Deletion request for Rijkman Groenink as 'not indicated why person impotant'. Did you have a look at the article? The content says imho why the article should be there. RG was the CEO and with that the driving force regarding the sale of ABN AMRO, the largest banking group in The Netherlands, and this sell-off of the bank was one of the main reasons for the complete collapse of Fortis Bank SA and a helping factor in the further collapse of Royal Bank of Scotland.
Being the driving force and the responsible person for possibly Worst takeover deal ever is imho alone enough reason for a page on Wiki.
So I really don't see why this should be a Speedy Deletion: his name and fame is comparable to Fred Goodwin (and RG and FG are both very responsible personally for the failure of the RBS takeover of ABN Amro. Tonkie (talk) 02:50, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
- I do understand what you mean...but pretty much what you have written is a biography of him which is fine, if he was well-known. The "Worst takeover ever," is not a notable event that happened. Which makes him an unremarkable person. Take Kevin O'Leary for example. He sold his education company to Matell for 3.6 billion dollars, which is remarkable, and may reach criteria...but he is also a "Shark" on the TV show Shark Tank. Do you see the difference? But still he has some significance. I have removed the tag. DreamFieldArts 6:34, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
- @DFA: I really do appreciate you withdrawing the nomination. There are not many people who do actually consider arguments and then act on it. I've had a similar discussion with another wikipedian who nominated a page from me and I also tried to explain to him why I thought that that page should remain on Wiki. His request was turned down for exactly the same reasons as I gave him. His reaction -very sporty- was to nominate aprox 10 articles that I had edited or created that day.
- The guy didn't really reach his goal as he was blocked for 2 weeks, and that made him so angry that after the 2 weeks he removed all content of all the pahes he had ever edited - and that resulted in another block :-) (And just for your information: the guy thought that a page on a technology/IEEE standard shouldn't be published on the Dutch language Wiki because there was already an English page AND there was no significant Dutch interest in the subject. (If you can't follow the explination it has nothing to do with you being American - I had to read his reasoning several times over just to undderstand what he tried to explain.....
- Anyway, thanks for the removal of the nomination - really appreciated Tonkie (talk) 06:53, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Speedy Deletion Yogoberry, Yogoothies
I am writing articles related to Brazilian fast food chains. There are thousands of articles on wikipedia about fast food chains in various locations worldwide, such as: California Burrito Co. (Argentina), Café de Coral (Hong Kong), Bembos (Peru), Khaanbuuz (Mongolia)... They may not be known in the United States, but are part of the interest of the rest of the world. I wonder if the articles I'm writing are different from the standard adopted in these pages. Please let me continue contributing to Misplaced Pages.--Flaviohmg (talk) 06:59, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
- I understand, but their is a thin line between a company that can have one to its just advertising. I previous tagged Spoleto and it was deleted for the same reason, and I don't see the difference in these. The page has been contested for speedy deletion, meaning it has not been deleted yet. It has just been tagged for an administrator to look at what I believe to be an unremarkable person. If the admin agrees with me, the page will be deleted...if not the page stays up, no questions asked.DreamFieldArts 13:47, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Shuhrat Abbosov
You proposed my recent article on Shuhrat Abbosov for speedy deletion. I wonder if you actually read the entry. The article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because Abbosov has received many honorary titles and awards, including a People's Artist of the Uzbek SSR, a People's Artist of the USSR, and an Order of the Red Banner of Labour. He is considered to one of the most influential Uzbek filmmakers and is celebrated as one of the founders of the Uzbek film making industry. See the sources given in the article. Nataev (talk) 08:50, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for you input. Your tag has been removed. DreamFieldArts 13:34, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Speedy Deletion Requests, Clearing Talk Page and Reachability
Hi DFA,
I'd like to make some comments on your work in this Wiki. I've divided my comments in 3 sections and signed each (sub)section. Not everything below is easy readible; some sentences are a bit long or are just messy - but I do think that it is clear what I intend to say. If not: feel free to ask for explination: either withing the text on this page or by contacting me via email. Cheers, Tonkie (talk) 12:19, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Speedy Deletion Requests
From your UserPage I see that one of your 'steady' contributions to the Misplaced Pages community is being a New Page Patroller (NPP). This important 'job' will often be unthankfull and your time and effort will often be not appreciated at all - especially by the people who wrote a serious article, spent quite some time on it and within minutes after writing they find that you nominated it for Speedy Deletion.
Nevertheless, I do fully agree that such a task has to be done to keep the quality of WikiPedia on a high level. But it does mean that a person fullfilling this role has to be aware that he will often hurt peoples feelings and he (or she; just keeping it in the male form for readability) should avoid discouraging people from making contributions to WikiPedia. If someone new to Wiki writes his first article and that is directly nominated for (speedy or normal) deletion might put people off from 'ever' writing again for Wiki; and without (new) contributers there is no Wiki. Imho any NPP -as experienced Wiki volunteer- should be extra aware of one of the Five Pillars of Misplaced Pages: Interact with Respect, which includes being welcoming to new members of the community and assume good faith.
When I look at your contributions I see you use often the Speedy Deletion option. While Speedy Deletions are sometimes needed, eg when an article goes clearly beyond the code of conduct such as personal attacks against people or organisations and/or hidden advertisments, I don't think it should be used for articles on subjects that might be not notable enough: for those articles the normal slow deletion process is more in place (note: this is MY opinion, not perse the official or mahority opinion).
As you will probably remember we had a discussion yesterday on my contribution of Rijkman Groenink, which was initially nominated for SD. As I'm not a newcomer on Wiki (even though my current username on the Englsh language Wiki is releative new) there was no need to follow any welcoming procedures - but I do hope that when you nominate an article for SD you do have a look at the history of the initial contributer of that article, and if you then see that this is one of his first contributions (or at least one of his first new articles), that you will take actions to prevent this user threatened away from contributing articles in the future: don't just put the standard SD Nomination template on the article, but contact the user directly via his Talk page and/or use the Mail this user function. Explain why you nominated it for SD and give him some workable rules how to avoid SD nominations in the future.
I do know several people who stopped contributing for Misplaced Pages because of the way they were treated on their first contributions. Some of these guys did return to Wiki after some help and coaching, and if they had received some help in the beginning and/or had been handled with respect they would never have stopped contributing (I'm not saying that you don't do that, but I do know that many experienced Wikipedians often forget that other people might be new to the medium and don't appreciate that their actions can be experienced by the newcomer as intimidating or as a personal attack.
Although I don't know you (and vice-versa) you reacted as if you were stung by a bee: you reacted on my single remark that I assumed you were American and because of that probably never heard of the guy RG you immediatly draw the conclusion that I though that all Americans were 13 year old girls and that could very well stop the chance of a serious discussion being initiated about the article itself.
I really don't want to be all-negative about you, and I'm not: I really appreciated the fact that you removed the SD nomination after our discussion. I'm not sure if you removed it because you now think (with the additional information I gave about the guy) that he is noteworthy enough or that you had another reason to withdraw the nomination. And I also do appreciate that it can be a very unthankfull job to be NPP but please do consider my remarks. Tonkie (talk) 12:13, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Clearing your Talk page
It seems that you (constantly) clear your Talk page. While I do think that there is nothing wrong with removing any standard/automatic sections which didn't result in any (personal) follow-ups I do think that one should be very careful/detached in deleting sections that include comments made by other people. I don't belong to the group of Misplaced Pages fundamentalists that think that removing content on ones Talk page should carry the death penalty (20 years labor-camp is good enough). Although I really do think that one shouldn't delete comments made on your Talk page I do understand that you want to keep your Talk page organized and readable. Imho the best approach is to Archieve ones Talk page by moving closed discussions to a seperate Archive section. Many people do use a chronological archieve eg. by moving the entire content of a specific period ((bi)-weekly, monthly, quarterly etc) to seperate archive pages and then have links to these archieves from the current Talk page. And when you do archieve its my personal view that it makes sense to edit the content in such a way that you do replace the full text of standard templates and just refer to that section by mentioning which template was placed on your Talk page and with which arguments (eg just mention (Notification: tagging for deletion of <article> in stead of the entire content). Tonkie (talk) 12:13, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Reachability
Although it is entirely up to each individual Wikepedian to enable the "Mail this user" feature I do think that Wikipedians that volunteer to do one of the many lowly appreciated jobs (such as New Page Patroller) should enable this feature. I do know that some newcomers would like to come into contact with other Wikipedians to discuss the reasons why this newcomers article was removed, edited, marked for deletion etc - but that they don't do it because they are reluctant to have this discussion 'out in the public'. Maybe because they are afraid that they ask stupid questions and/or they don't want to be branded as newbie. When you have the Mail-this-user feature enabled those people have the ability to contact you without that discussion being visable for anyone else. It is also a nice way to inform an user that you edited a page to which this guy made some (important) contribution a long time ago and you do want to let this contributer know that you made these changes. Often the user that made an important contribution to a specific page will have that page on his watchlist - but if the contribution in question was from a long time ago and/or if that user doesn't use the watchlist the email-function can be handy. I do use it on a regular basis. If the discussion is personal we keep using the mail function, but if I have the feeling that the discussion contains infomation that might be of interest for other readers as well I then suggest to the discussion partner to move the exchanged information to the most appropiate Talk page. Tonkie (talk) 12:13, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
- I do understand what you mean. When I first joined, when I created a page the same thing happened to me, so in reaction to that when someones article is meaningless I take action. Most likely after you create a page, and it is contested people get upset I understand that. But if is not needed, an unimportant person, unimportant company, or advertising I act as being a new page patroller, that is my duty. But its like writing a paper all night and you teacher rips it up, and says its crap. That's my job, and it will never change. DreamFieldArts 13:39, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
- I don't get your point: do I understand that you won't change the way you fulfill your oll as NewPagePatroller? Set aside one of the 5 fundaments of Misplaced Pages because you think that a certain page is doesn't belong on Wiki? I really think you don't get the idea of Misplaced Pages then. As said: pages that go against other fundamental rules on Wiki (such as insulting other people, advertising etc) do indeed need 'speedy deletion' - but a SD because you think something is not notable enough doesn't perse need a SD as being 'not notable' is the interpretation.
- And you defend your actions with "That;s my job and it will never change" - that sounds very much like Befehl ist Befehl - that excuse was used before. And I don't think it is a NPP's job to fulfill the role of a teacher telling you your piece is crap: just as a good teacher shouldn't say you piece is crap, rips it up and throw it in the bin - but explain to your student what it is why the paper you have written is not good enough and then give it back to you so you can improve.
- I really hope that you're not a teacher (or become one later on in life) - as with that mentality I really don't think you'd be an inspiring teacher. Even as NPP the Five Fundamentals also (or even extra) apply to you, so I realy don't see why you think 'it will never change'. Highest regards, Tonkie (talk) 18:09, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
- Tonkie...I rarely put things up for speedy deletion. If it's a person I read the article over to see if this person has bettered the world and/or done something significant. 90% of the articles I put up for speedy deletion do get deleted. My job on here is to help make Misplaced Pages a better place for us all and get rid of advertising, hoaxes, unimportant restaurants/companies, & unremarkable people. DreamFieldArts 18:16, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
- Thats not what I get from your contribution history - but never mind. Don't let us get into a fight about different interpretations of the rules. As said: I do fully agree with you that you need to be strict to people who abuse Misplaced Pages by advertising or be abusive. But in case of 'not notable' you need, imho, be more careful as 'not notable' is more difficult to put a finger on. To come back to our example: for people in the US, Africa or Asia mr Groenink is not or hardly known; but in The Netherlands everyone knows his name and the national news opened several bulletins with his name. And in the financial world all professionals will know him. And also the other way around: most Americans will immediatly know who a particular govenor of a state is; while most Europeans won't get much further then Arnie Schwarzenegger and Jeb Bush if we have to name a govenor: but that doesn't mean he is not notable...
- And if I look at your 'job-description': I don't see that you have to act like a teacher and rip-up a paper (as a matter of speach): I read more things like Be nice to the newbies. Having said that: I do appreciate that there is a need for NPPers in the same way that we need police in the real world: but that doesn't mean that we want the Wiki versions of Stacey Koon or Laurence Powell patrolling the New Page suburb of WikiCity. (commenst are with a large dose of sarcasm; not intended as an insult) Cheers, Tonkie (talk) 18:42, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
- I do see what you mean...I will try to be imho on people articles a little bit more. But I'm nice to newbies, anything I put up for speedy deletion is from an experienced user. DreamFieldArts 18:46, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
deletions
Looking at your contributors, deleted contributions, and talk pager, I see you have been making a few too many incorrect taggings. Besides the above, I removed the tag for A9; from a Judas Priest song--the criterion only applies if the artist does not have an article in Misplaced Pages. And we do not use the A1 no context tag is we can tell what the article is about . he Culling (comic book arc) is about a plot line in specified comic book series. It may not be notable, it probably is not worth a separate article nut needs merging somewhere. But it does pass speedy. Lions in the Desert not only has context, but is a major painting by an important artist, and therefore almost certainly notable. analagously, New Brunswick Route 150. Making Moves (album)) is indeed not worth a separate article, but it does not get deleted by speedy A10, because it's a plausible redirect to the main article--another ed. here already fixed that one. Shuhrat Abbosov is a People's artist of the USSR, a major award--and this was in the article when you deleted it.It consequently certainly does not meet the qualification of no indication of importance, and is almost certainly notable.
It goes the other way too: you tagged Wells Fargo Financial Analyst Program (FAP) with prod, as an "unimportant event". It's not an event. But what it is, is pure advertising , written in a totally promotional manner incapable of fixing by normal editing. I've speedy deleted it accordingly. You prodded Nil Ratan Sircar for copyvio. We don't use prod for something that is a pure copyvio, like this. We speedy delete it. I've done so.
New Page patrol is very important. It is important that it be done properly, About 3/4 of your tagging is good, & I've deleted some of the articles you indicated, but an error rate like this is not really acceptable, and you should learn the criteria first, before you apply them. doing it properly. You are not only missing significant copyvio, you are listing for removal perfectly good articles and discouraging what we need most, which is new editors.