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  • This is not an encyclopedia article. If you find this page on any site other than Misplaced Pages you are viewing a mirror site. If that is the case please be aware that the page may be outdated and that User:Cailil may have no personal affiliation with any site other than Misplaced Pages. The original page is located here.
  • User:Cailil is extremely busy in real life - please do not be offended if your message is not replied immediately. Due to many commitments in real life he is not as available on wikipedia as he once was. He will have limited time for wikipedia until early May 2012. In his absence, matters arising from normal administrative decisions taken by him should be brought to WP:AN or WP:ANI, matters arising from arbitration enforcement should be taken to WP:AE. And by way of clarity he has no problem with any other sysop reversing his decisions, as long as they have consesus on the appropriate board or if they have a substantive reason (such as a blocked/banned party's agreement to abide by WP:5) to do so.
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Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Shakehandsman

This notice is being sent to you because you participated in this RFC, which was placed on indefinite hold when the user who was the subject abruptly retired from Misplaced Pages. As of today that user has announed that they are no longer retired and are retuning to the project. This does not mean that the RFC must be re-opened, but it can be if anyone feels there is a need for the discussion to continue. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:57, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

MSU Interview

Dear Cailil,


My name is Jonathan Obar user:Jaobar, I'm a professor in the College of Communication Arts and Sciences at Michigan State University and a Teaching Fellow with the Wikimedia Foundation's Education Program. This semester I've been running a little experiment at MSU, a class where we teach students about becoming Misplaced Pages administrators. Not a lot is known about your community, and our students (who are fascinated by wiki-culture by the way!) want to learn how you do what you do, and why you do it. A while back I proposed this idea (the class) to the community HERE, were it was met mainly with positive feedback. Anyhow, I'd like my students to speak with a few administrators to get a sense of admin experiences, training, motivations, likes, dislikes, etc. We were wondering if you'd be interested in speaking with one of our students.


So a few things about the interviews:

  • Interviews will last between 15 and 30 minutes.
  • Interviews can be conducted over skype (preferred), IRC or email. (You choose the form of communication based upon your comfort level, time, etc.)
  • All interviews will be completely anonymous, meaning that you (real name and/or pseudonym) will never be identified in any of our materials, unless you give the interviewer permission to do so.
  • All interviews will be completely voluntary. You are under no obligation to say yes to an interview, and can say no and stop or leave the interview at any time.
  • The entire interview process is being overseen by MSU's institutional review board (ethics review). This means that all questions have been approved by the university and all students have been trained how to conduct interviews ethically and properly.


Bottom line is that we really need your help, and would really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. If interested, please send me an email at obar@msu.edu (to maintain anonymity) and I will add your name to my offline contact list. If you feel comfortable doing so, you can post your name HERE instead.

If you have questions or concerns at any time, feel free to email me at obar@msu.edu. I will be more than happy to speak with you.

Thanks in advance for your help. We have a lot to learn from you.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Obar --Jaobar (talk) 21:15, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Topic Ban Review

Hi Cailil, I think the 6 months has come to an end a short while ago. I am aware that the entire "British Isles" area has been remarkably stable over that period, so it's only fair that I acknowledge that. Equally noteworthy is that those editors that warred with me have pretty much disappeared. I'd like the Topic Ban lifted if you get a chance to do a review. It's also given me a chance to look back over my editing at "British Isles" - with the benefit of being older and wiser and less "involved". Some of my editing was .... let's say extremely pedantic. Perhaps (arguably) not technically incorrect if you "rules lawyered" the policies, but sometimes one needs to acknowledge and conform to the spirit of everyday usage. As to the future of "British Isles" editing. I believe I've a very firm grip of what is required, the most important of which is to ensure that references are provided for any changes. --HighKing (talk) 17:27, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi HighKing. I'll have a look at this over the next few days--Cailil 23:35, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
I've reviewed the ban but I'm afraid I haven't lifted it at this time. As I said in the review I'm happy to look at this again in 3 months--Cailil 15:02, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
I'm keen to get this cleared up - I've asked as AN/I for another opinion here. --HighKing (talk) 20:22, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
No problem HK - I'm glad you went to a board rather than to MRG, an action like this needs a consensus of uninvolved sysops to overturn it (rather than just 1). And like I said I'm happy to look at this again at the end of May--Cailil 17:09, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Cailil, if this ever happens in the future, I'll not volunteer for a long break and go quietly into the night. In my opinion, this is a breach - on your part - of the spirit of my break. I regret agreeing to 6 months, and I regret not fighting the original imposition of the Topic Ban. Had I been a bollix and fought, I'd probably have received a week, tops. This isn't fair or right. And adding three months from the original date takes us to the middle of May, not the end of May. If I am forced to eat this, not one extra day will I concede. If (and it's looking likely) nobody is willing to dare speak up an AN, can I take it to Arbcom for review. Because nobody is answering any of my questions, and as I've said, this isn't fair. --HighKing (talk) 22:23, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
I've replied at AN. I'm not giving this issue any more time than I already have and I will not be swayed by threats. Protest as you wish but the community sanction that I imposed, and reviewed has been upheld as appropriate by other sysops on AN. If I were you I'd consider learning from this rather than anything else. I have no further comments--Cailil 23:36, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Cailil, I regret my outburst above, sincere apologies. I felt angry because I believed I was being hard-done by and not treated fairly or consistently with other editors. My anger was directed at the perceived unfairness, and not at the Topic Ban. Your explanation at AN has shown me the error of my thinking - I was completely wrong about the difference between a ban and a block, and I realize I'm not being treated differently. Now that I realize this, I've no problem with a review at the end of May. --HighKing (talk) 13:07, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Cailil, I know it's not the end of May yet, but thought I'd remind you this is coming up. --HighKing (talk) 16:57, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
HI HK, I hadn't forgotten - will look at this in the next few days--Cailil 12:55, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

User:Lvivske

You have blocked this user in the past for issues regarding editing on articles with racial issues. I believe he is causing problems again, repeatedly making accusations that well sourced photographs have been Photoshopped, to affect their skin tone, citing a blog, and disregarding RS that contradict him. Thank you for your attention. Gaijin42 (talk) 17:02, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately I'm unavailable to deal with this (please see the note on teh top of this page re: my limited availability on wikipedia) so I will recommend you seek dispute resolution via WP:DRN or outside input via WP:TO.
If there is a behavioural issue, and you can substantiate, it might be better to speak to User:Future Perfect at Sunrise or User:EdJohnston but I would recommend only doing so if you can show (ie with diffs) that there is a problem - rather than just claiming that there is one--Cailil 15:38, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Dispute resolution survey

Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite


Hello Cailil. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Misplaced Pages, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released.

Please click HERE to participate.
Many thanks in advance for your comments and thoughts.


You are receiving this invitation because you have had some activity in dispute resolution over the past year. For more information, please see the associated research page. Steven Zhang 23:00, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

User:Shakehandsman

I would say this is invalid, as no reason for such an interaction issue is given, and given that as an administrator you may be required to post on any user's talkpage. I will, however, point this conversation out to the user for comment. Black Kite (talk) 15:47, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks BK. You'll understand my hesitance to take it directly to Shakehandsman in that I don't want to disregard their wishes. I'll also point-out that SLP1 is also a sysop and the evidence used to justify her ban from Shakehandsman page do not show any inappropriate conduct - Shakehandsman may (and is free to) disagree with her and everyone else's perspectives but that does not justify the accusation of inappropriate conduct and the apparent attempt to poison the well for others dealing with any issue related to this. Furthermore it is not acceptable usage of the user talkspace to ask "anyone with outlook or background is respectfully asked not to post" on a user talk page - we don't own these talk pages. I don't want it to seem like I am against the legitimate use of user talk page 'bans' as such - but this type of action makes a mockery of those legitimate instances--Cailil 17:17, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes - that's the problem I have with that talkpage as well. It reads to me like "I don't want anyone who doesn't share my POV to post here" which is clearly unacceptable. Black Kite (talk) 17:22, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
I've let KC know about this as she seems to have came back from her wikibreak. I also noted how Shakehandsman interpreted her last intervention--Cailil 16:22, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Just to be clear BK I don't see a commenting out of my name from the list as an appropriate conclusion to this. I believe the inclusion of other ppl on that list (especially Slp1) is just as problematic as my own.
I would also say that Shakehandsman's response to you illustrates my points perfectly and shows again that he is not listening to what you & I have said here, or what KC said months ago.
One does not have the latitude to use a talk page to draw-up lines of ideological battle against other users for what one supposes are their personal opinions. And I emphasize the speculative aspect of Shakehandsman's claim that those who edit in a subject area in concert with WP:5 are in anyway biased for or against any ideology at all.
His text reads:

I really don't appreciate sexism or those with a record of anti-gender equality contributions (particularly if working together in organised groups). Regrettably, due to the present biases on Misplaced Pages, anyone with a gender feminist outlook or background is respectfully asked not to post here please. For the avoidance of doubt anyone involved in gender studies is included in this request unless there is evidence of neutral editing or they reject current prevailing gender studies ideologies.

This is both a wild claim that anyone involved with the wikiprojects LGBT, Feminism or Gender studies are all POV pushers (and directly alleges that they all personally hold "anti-gender equality" povs), and a soapbox against ideologies, which alone would be wildly inappropriate. Furthermore it labels a list of editors as having a "record of anti-gender equality contributions" and conflates that with having real world experience/knowledge of a subject--Cailil 13:28, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

A way forward

I noticed your edit. Since the whole thing went into a general slinging match I agree that some clarification is needed. At least the focus of the trouble went away from the RfA. I have been mulling over the idea of an ammendment myself basically leaving us two options: 1) removing the "any uninvolved admin can topic ban" passage as no-one in their right mind would touch the subject after seeing this debacle due to the fallout even in the most clearcut cases, or 2) replace that passage with a restriction to just !voting whilst admonishing other editors not to comment. Do you think either would work? Agathoclea (talk) 14:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

It's really a matter for the committee. IMHO a simple wording change ("under probation" rather than "topic banned" in the ruling quoted at the AE case) would clear things up. In those circumstances I would see sysops enforcing it--Cailil 19:19, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Van Speijk

Cailil I was wondering if you could have a look at the actions of Van Speijk with regards to the insertion of the term British Isles without the support of references. Since your warning in November 2011 he has continued to add/re-add the term without regard for any restrictions or indeed WP policy:

  • Town and gown - Replaced a 2 month old fact tag and the term British Isles
  • Thomas Coville - In an attempt to keep/include the term British Isles Van Speijk when to the extremes of making up a non existence world record: and .
  • Rosie (given name) - Re-added British Isles without any supporting reference and made any excuse in the talkpage to include it. , . He concluded that the use of Great Britian wasn't right as it missed out some islands and that United Kingdom couldn't be used as it included Northern Ireland. He however was happy to use British Isles which not only included Northern Ireland but the Republic of Ireland, Channel Isles and Isle of Man. Talk page logic can be observed here.

As you are well aware I have been active in the area of Irish/British articles for years and have on many occassions removed the term British Isles when it was either inappropriate or not supported by references. I stand by these edits and if you or anyone else feel that there are outwith the quidelines and policies of this project I am more than willing to be pointed in the direction of my indiscretions. Bjmullan (talk) 21:44, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for brining these to my attention BJ. Re: the 3 articles there is a problem here and its the toxicity of the interaction between you and Van Speijk. The British Isles probation was established to prevent edit warring in articles over the the term British Isles, and to prevent it spreading/spilling over into other articles & topics. The histories of the 3 articles you list above are warped by a slow edit-war by both you and Van Speijk. For example almost 20% (11 out of 57 edits) of Rosie (given name) is the edit war between the two of you. Just under 50% of the article's history at Thomas Coville, and 7 of the 10 edits this year at Town and Gown and the two of you edit-warring.
Dealing with the substance of the 3 instances you listed:
1) The Town and Gown edits are original research by Van Speijk inserted and reinserted without sourcing contrary to core policy and WP:GS/BI. But you BJ should not have edit-warred with him about it. Being correct does not justify edit-warring.
2) Regarding the Thomas Coville edits Van Speijk is correct - the sources do use the term 'British Isles' and do not use "Britain and Ireland". But again you were both edit warring and he was wrong to edit-war even if he was correct in terms of sourcing.
3) On Rosie you're both wrong - the source says "England" not "Great Britain" and not the "British Isles".
All in all the project is not served by either or both of you engaging in this type of edit war. A comparison of main-space (article) edits in which you and Van Speijk have reverted one another (within the last 10 months) includes: UK & Ireland; HSS 1500; River Shannon; Ulster Banner and the 3 you mentioned above.
Now, as well as these articles' histories showing edit-warring, it also shows wikihounding by Van Speijk. While I found an example of you following Van Speijk (Public house in October 2011), the 7 articles above show clear wikihounding of you by Van Speijk, and another 4 (Mary_McAleese in August 2011; Coleraine in March 2012; British National Party in May 2012; and Outline of Northern Ireland in May 2011) show possible hounding. I've excluded talk pages from this analysis for the moment, but given that Van Speijk admits that he is doing this on a routine basis the matter is clear.
The hounding/stalking is covered by WP:TROUBLES (see the RFAR principles harassment and tit for tat and the explanation of the scope of WP:Troubles), as that is the main locus of the hounding (ie Coleraine, Ulster Banner, UK & Ireland, and widely British nationalism & Irish nationalism in relation to each other).
With regard to the British Isles dispute both of you have been engaging in insertions/removals of the term British Isles contrary to the terms of the topic's probation neither of you is worse than the other, and I have, after looking at this for some hours and going back through 10 months of contribs, that under WP:GS/BI's terms you should both be banned from any article edits or discussions (of any type anywhere) relating to the term 'British Isles' widely construed for an indefinite period (this time period is consistent with all other WP:GS/BI sanctions). I am open to review each ban individually in 6 months time. I will notify you both individually within the next hour with a formal ban notice.
I will be looking further into the matter of the harassment and am considering an interaction ban (between the both of you) as a possible solution but will post about that separately tomorrow after looking at more diffs--Cailil 01:34, 28 May 2012 (UTC)