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Talk:A Streetcar Named Desire

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Removed from the main page (as unsupported speculation)

Removed from the main page (as unsupported speculation):

Stanley Kowalski is part of a long tradition of the American stage brute -- a working class oaf whose failure to grasp culture, and whose desire to cut through the pretension of the elite makes him something of a working class hero. (Think Ralph Kramden, Fred Flintstone, Al Bundy, and Homer Simpson.)

Perhaps the above is true. It seems to me (and I may be wrong) that it should be attributed to someone, as it's not easily proven on its own. Seems to fit better in a paper on the film and/or play, not an article. My $.02. --KQ


I don't think Stanley can be seen as a "working class hero": he is ridiculed at numerous points in the play for his ignorance (viz. the "Napoleonic code") and shown to be more brutal than most people would accept in a hero. I think you were right to remove the reference. Oliver

i think the change in ending in the movie should be noted though i dont have the energy to do so now. --tom 01:02, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Me neither :) But talk about change in rape scene as well...

Regarding links, Misplaced Pages: WikiProject Streetcars will be working on improving WP content regarding the streetcar and related articles. Vaoverland 21:29, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)

Um, really, the streetcar isn't that relevant. You might as well decorate a star wars page with links to famous wars. It's a title, and there is some symbolism (is that streetcar named desire still grinding along those tracks?) but it doesn't really need discussing. Inebriatedonkey 19:54, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I generally agree. The streetcar has definite symbolic relevance in the context of the play - but the sub-section for it here contains no such context, so it's just a digression. I think it could be worth mentioning if the section was made into an observation of the play's generally accepted themes, i.e., a few such symbols could be included as illustration of these themes. This section could incorporate the existing brief comparison with Chekov, you know? Maybe I'll give it a shot at some point, unless there is general disapproval of the idea. JustDerek 20:57, 20 Oct 2005 (UTC)

From Blanche Dubois

The following was in the article Blanche Dubois; I changed it to a redirect to the play. Anybody want to merge it in properly? --Christopherlin 06:56, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Blanche DuBois is a character in Tennessee Williams' A Streetcar Named Desire. Blanche is obsessed by her appearance, using it as protection against her age and looks. She is also a nymphomaniac and an alcoholic, again using it to hide behind. She is the sister of Stella, who is married to Stanley Kowalski. Stanley decides to delve into her past, discovering that she has lied. She used to be a prostitute at the Flamingo Hotel, out of which she was eventually thrown out. In addition to this, she was also sacked as a teacher of English for having an affair with a seventeen year old student of hers. She was married very young, but later discovered that her husband was a homosexual. On confronting him, he committed suicide. Blanche is haunted by the music she heard previous to his death (the polka) and a gunshot. She is later raped by her brother-in-law, Stanley Kowalski, which leads to her eventual downfall in Scene 11, when she is taken away to a mental asylum. It is thought that Williams used many attributes of his sister, Rose,when writing ASND. Rose had a pre-frontal lobotomy performed on her. Williams was haunted by the fact he could not prevent this operation.

If that has citations, sure. Could use a rewrite to eliminate excess verbiage and fix some awkward spots though. -nightfyre —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.253.89 (talk) 03:05, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Online version of the play?

Does anyone know if SND is available as a free ebook somewhere? The author is dead so there is no copyright, right?

No, the novel is copyrighted and the United States copyright law states, "Copyrights currently last for seventy years after the death of an author, or seventy-five to ninety-five years in the case of works of corporate authorship and works first published before 1 January 1978." I couldn't find an ebook with the novel, either. Sorry. Sciurinæ 14:42, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Stamp not qualifying as fair use

After reading over {{USPSstamp}} I felt inclined to remove the stamp from the article, as it is being used to illustrate the play appearing in the stamp, as opposed to illustrating the stamp itself. Feel free to discuss if you disagree. ~ PseudoSudo 22:39, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


Comparisons with Other Works

coarse (but vital) hustlers and ethnics like Stanley-- who, despite the torn T shirt, is a successful engineer, not a laborer

Stanley Kowalski is an engineer? I really don't remember that and the wikipedia entry on Stanley says he is a laborer.

Too lazy to find it right now, but there are several references to Stanley and Mitch having been in an engineering division/unit. Whether or not that is his current occupation is another matter. On another note, how do we know Allan is bi and not just gay? There is no reference to them having sex; in fact there is a reference against it to the effect that Mitch thought the most she had ever gotten from a man was a kiss. I believe it's during Stanley's revelations to Stella. I think he was hiding his sexual preferences by doing the socially acceptable thing and marrying a rich attractive woman. -nightfyre —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.253.89 (talk) 03:02, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Myth?

This sounds exactly like the myth of Tereus & Prokne and the rape of Philomela, minus the canibalism. Intentional? Mention it? - Psyno 07:37, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Setting

Elysian Fields and Desire Street are not in the French Quarter, but in the Faubourg Marigny and the Upper 9th Ward/Bywater neighborhoods. Perhaps the setting should be changed to read "Downtown New Orleans", Downtown being any part of the city east of Canal Street, that is "down river", which also includes the Quarter. -- Leodmacleod 10:10, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

AFI ranking

The lines "Stella! Hey, Stella!" and "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers" are respectively ranked #45 and #75 in the American Film Institute's list of the top 100 movie quotations in American cinema. This should be mentioned somewhere in the article, I think. bd2412 T 17:52, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


Naw, you'd put that on the A Streetcar Named Desire (film) article. This one's only about the play. -Leodmacleod 8:53, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Parody film?

I'd like to remove this reference to a parody film, as it isn't cited and I can't find a mention of the play, actor or director anywhere on the Internet.

"A short, parody film was also made called "Living with Blanche." It centers around Blanche DuBois after she leaves the mental institution years after the original story. It stars Julia M. Blauvelt and is directed by Amy C. Lewis." Gingerwiki (talk) 20:31, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Re Section "Productions Now. (Please update)"

I have completely removed this inappropriate section. Misplaced Pages articles are not blogs or crystal balls. Note also that instructions like "please update" and the other instructional comments are completely inappropriate in an article. When a production takes place, and if it is notable, it can be added to the performance history. Voceditenore (talk) 14:41, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Streetcar Revival in New Orleans

This section is wildly inaccurate... I am renaming it to "Streetcars in New Orleans", fixing a bunch of errors, and adding a bit about the fake "DESIRE" streetcar that sst in the Quarter for tourists to photograph. In actual fact, the St. Charles line never stopped running, only Canal was revived, and there was only the most tenuous connection between that and Desire.

Over 50 years after the play opened, the revival of the streetcar system in New Orleans is credited by many to the worldwide fame gained by the streetcars made by the Perley A. Thomas Car Works, Inc. which were operating on the Desire route in the play, and have been carefully restored and continue to operate there in 2004 (though not on the Desire Street route.) Streetcars along the Canal Street in downtown New Orleans are up and running. Previously, the St. Charles Avenue line was in partial service due to damages sustained during Hurricane Katrina but as of January 2008, it is in full operation. Presently, though, there is merely a bus named Desire. Plans have recently been made to revive the streetcar line and funding was allocated for the project in the U.S. Department of Transportation's FY97 budget. However, the projected was halted prior to Hurricane Katrina and there is no word, as of yet, to when it will resume.

Requested move

The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
No consensus. No convincing evidence was provided that the play qualifies as the primary topic at this time. No prejudice to a reconsideration of the move if evidence is brought forward.--Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 02:36, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm thinking that this should be the main page rather than the disambiguation page, because the adaptations were all based on this play. There was a discussion about this over ten months ago here: Talk:A Streetcar Named Desire. Gary King (talk) 18:13, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Just to clarify: I agree with Tassedethe and Joeldl that there is no rule or presumption that an original work is always the primary topic per se, but in this case this article is primary because, despite its misleading title, it is not about the play, but rather the work as a whole, including the play and all its adaptations. The articles about specific adaptations are derivative of this article and therefore not primary. Station1 (talk) 07:24, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Station1, in the context of this discussion, the word "primary" has a specific meaning. It refers to WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Although the article about the play goes beyond mentioning its adaptations, that does not give it special standing. It is a fairly common situation affecting books, films, and songs. In such situations, a disambiguation page at the ambiguous title is even more desirable than usual, because the likelihood of incorrect links is very high. Just yesterday I disambiguated the incoming links to A Streetcar Named Desire and as I note below, half were wrong. --Una Smith (talk) 08:06, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
This article is mainly about the play, and has some material about adaptations. This is exactly as it should be. Nonetheless, a disambiguation page at A Streetcar Named Desire seems preferable to an article about the play. Joeldl (talk) 22:30, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Support It gets over most of the traffic. Leodmacleod 5:48, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose the best known one is the Marlon Brando movie, and likely the answer most people will come up with as an answer to "what is A Streetcar Named Desire" 76.66.195.159 (talk) 07:51, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

The play is one of 5 entries on the disambiguation page and in my opinion the 1951 film is more likely to qualify as the primary topic. So let's see some evidence to support how the play is the primary topic per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. --Una Smith (talk) 05:10, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

The movie is an adaptation, a variation of the original stage play. In some sense they are the same. By definition the play is primary. This article is not only about the original production and stage revivals but also the several movie, opera and TV adaptations. The separate film and opera articles are daughters of this article. The "(play)" in the article title is in fact misleading. Station1 (talk) 07:10, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
FYI, I just disambiguated incoming links to the dab page. Result: of about 25 links, about half were to the play, and the dab page now has a few more entries. Incoming links to A Streetcar Named Desire (film) also need to be disambiguated, but that has to wait a few days because some links are via a navbox template. The database needs to "catch up" on links via templates. --Una Smith (talk) 06:02, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages article views, November 2008:

So the article about the play gets about 50% of the views of these articles (and it looks like the disambiguation page needs its incoming links disambiguated). --Una Smith (talk) 06:27, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

My bad!

In regards to an early undue undo; from User:AnEmptyCageGirl:AnEmptyCageGirl's talk-

-- A Streetcar Named Desire--

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from A Streetcar Named Desire (play). When removing text, please specify a reason in the edit summary and discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the text has been restored, as you can see from the page history. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you.

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Sorry, I went back and checked, and I missed where you had added the link. I'm really sorry and kind of embarassed. My bad. --Leodmacleod (talk) 04:40, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Tallulah

"Selznick originally wanted to cast Margaret Sullavan and John Garfield". Actually, Williams originally wrote the play for Tallulah Bankhead, but she refused to do it because the script contained the word "nigger". see page 293 at http://books.google.com/books?id=18YjNB_BsqYC&printsec=frontcover

Musical

Colin Ingram's production opens at the Donmar Warehouse, London on Tuesday 28th July 2009, previews from 23rd. See The Donmar's What's On page —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nigelgreenx2 (talk • contribs) 12:33, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

"The real streetcar named Desire" section

As it is now, much of this section belongs in Streetcars in New Orleans, not in a discussion of this play. What about something more along these lines (or less).

== The real streetcar named Desire ==

Main article: Streetcars in New Orleans

The Desire Line ran from 1920–48, at the height of streetcar use in New Orleans. The Desire route ran down Bourbon, through the Quarter, up Desire, and back around to Canal. Blanche's route in the play — "They told me to take a streetcar named Desire, transfer to one called Cemeteries and ride six blocks and get off at — Elysian Fields!" — is allegorical.

The lines servicing the French Quarter were converted to buses in the early 1950s. For many years, an original 1920's Perley Thomas streetcar from the St. Charles Avenue Line, No. 952, sat in the French Market proudly bearing the name "DESIRE" for tourists to stand in front of and photograph.

  1. Branley, Edward J. (2004).New Orleans: The Canal Streetcar Line. Charleston SC, Chicago, Portsmouth NH, San Francisco: Arcadia Publishing, p. 68.
  2. No. 952 was moved to San Francisco in 1998. 1923 New Orleans 'Streetcar Named Desire' No. 952 Market Street Railway

In any case, the current information about the Desire Projects and the St Charles and Canal St Lines, and the presumption that Williams was unfamiliar with N.O. streetcar lines, should be removed. LaNaranja (talk) 01:08, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

No objections so I edited this section of the article. LaNaranja (talk) 17:09, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

"A Streetcar Named Success" section

Not relevant to the play -- would better fit in the Tennessee Williams article. LaNaranja (talk) 04:33, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

No objections so I commented out this section. LaNaranja (talk) 17:09, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Quotes and Summary

Quotes from a Streetcar Named Desire This novel shows a variety of characters ranging from crazy, intelligent, clueless, and aggressive and powerful. These characters include Blanche, Stanley, Stella and Mitch. Blanche and Stella are sisters. Stanley is friends with Mitch and married to Stella. Mitch has a thing for Blanche. This story is complicated with many things happening with the outrageous behaviors in different scenes. Blanche is a mentally psychotic character who comes to Elysian Fields, a two-story corner building on a street in New Orleans after losing her property at Belle Reve, her previous home which her family had for generations. A quote that explains Blanche in this story is when she first arrives and is talking to Stella. They are talking about Blanche losing Belle Reve and Blanche’s response was, “Well, Stella—you’re going to reproach me, I know that you’re bound to reproach me—but before you do—take into consideration—you left! I stayed and struggled! You came to New Orleans and looked out for yourself. I stayed at Belle Reve and tried to hold it together! I’m not meaning this in any reproachful way, but all the burden descended on my shoulders” (25). This explains Blanche perfectly because whenever Blanche is blamed for something gone wrong, she always finds a way to turn it around on people or avoid the topic. For example, when Mitch was asking about Blanche’s age, she turned the conversation away to how she had a love that turned out to be gay and she talked about Mitch’s sick mother. One person who could listen to the crap that Blanche would give her is Stella. Stella is Blanche’s sister. And for the majority of the first half of the story, Stella would take Stanley’s aggressive behavior including the poker night and Blanche’s bologna of stories. The turning point or real character triumph for Stella is when Stella and Blanche were arguing about why Stella loved Stanley. Blanche was referring Stanley as an animal and making animal references about him. Stella out of no where decided that day that she would stand up for herself. Blanche says, “A man like that is someone to go out with—once—twice—three times when the devil is in you. But live with? Have a child by?” (71). Stella replies, “I have told you I love him” (71). That is no screaming or telling off, but that was a huge step for Stella. One person who didn’t like Blanche from the start was Stanley. Stanley was an aggressive character who never took crap from anyone, especially Blanche. He knew she was full of herself from the start. For example, in the beginning, he interrogated Blanche because she had nice clothing and jewelry. But when Stanley got really fed up with Blanche, he decided to give her a birthday present. Blanche had just opened it and he started to explain what it is, “Ticket! Back to Laurel! On the Greyhound! Tuesday!” (111). I like that Stanley is real with Blanche, because then she knows that she is not wanted at their home. One person who accepted Blanche and loved her was Mitch. Mitch was Stanley’s friend playing poker and met Blanche that night. You could say they hit it off. He wanted to see her again and he did, multiple times. The one night after Mitch found out Blanche’s real age, he didn’t get mad or has an outburst, instead he replied, “You need somebody. And I need somebody, too. Could it be—you and me, Blanche?” (96). This proves that Mitch is a very excepting, and nice gentleman. The characters in this novel prove to be complex, and there is an abundant amount. This novel proved to be a intricate one with many personalities and so many different places. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.149.27.177 (talk) 23:37, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

'Themes and Motifs' This section looks like it was copied from a cliffs notes. And reads like a sophmore essay. Anyone think it has a place here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.20.18.21 (talk) 18:36, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Changed Setting

Hi, I've never edited before, but I've studied this play for a long time, and this is inaccurate - The play occurs in the French Quarter, not the Marigny. At the end of scene 3 (the Poker Night) when Blanche comes outside to talk to Mitch:

Blanche: I'm not properly dressed.

Mitch: That don't make no difference in the Quarter.

This can be found in any copy of the play. Williams intentionally misused Elysian Fields, possibly because (according to its Misplaced Pages page) its "the final resting place of the souls of the heroic and the virtuous" which makes sense in the context of the play. Also, in the first scene, Stella states that the L&N tracks are outside:

Blanche:...Out there I suppose is the ghoul-haunted woodland of Weir!

Stella: No, honey, those are the L&N tracks.

The L&N tracks run on Canal st., which is in the Quarter, not the Marigny -

http://nutrias.org/exhibits/choochoo/page2.htm

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.210.254.85 (talk) 04:35, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Vivien Leigh as Blanche in the Broadway production

In this article, it is stated that Leigh starred in the London production. Now, I'm not sure whether she did or not, but I know she starred in the Broadway production, alongside Brando as Stanley and Hunter as Stella. Why does it say differently in this article? Egduf8 (talk) 04:24, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Move request

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian (talk) 21:57, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

– This play is clearly the primary topic, as all items on the disambiguation page are basically just adaptions of this play. The Evil IP address (talk) 22:04, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

AGREE STRONGLY Absolutely and without question. — Robert Greer (talk) 01:06, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Not obviously a primary topic. The 1951 film is comparably well known, and may be a more likely search or link target. The articles have a similar number of incoming links. Keeping this as a disambiguation page makes sure wikilinkers pick the correct target. – Pnm (talk) 21:34, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The fact that the play was first and the others were based on the play does not automatically make it the primary topic. I think at this stage the film probably has as much written about it as the play. The "first in time" argument should not be used as a surrogate of determining primary usage—many places in the world were named after Boston, Lincolnshire, but that doesn't make it the primary meaning of Boston. Good Ol’factory 22:32, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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