Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Calmypal (talk | contribs) at 23:26, 30 April 2006 (moved Talk:George Allen (politician) to Talk:George Felix Allen: I don't see a compelling reason to keep this at George Allen (politician). People looking for him there will still find him, via a disambiguaton page, which will not be unusual for a). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

I can't believe there is no talk page for this article. For someone that people think will be the next Republican presidential candidate, there's not much here. I'll go out on a limb and make a prediction here (yes I know WP is not a crystal ball): Allen-Rice would be a winning ticket for the right, even if HRC does run. Just thought I'd go on record so when it happens, I can have bragging rights. --LV 21:51, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

No military, no presidency

With the war on terror, Americans will want a strong leader with a military background. When it comes time to pull the lever, Hillary, her lack of international and military experience will make her too weak for voters. George Allen is in the same boat. Gilluiani's pro-choice stance is too liberal for the GOP and the nation is not ready (I am) for a female, black president, with no prior service record (maybe in peace time). That leaves a possible McCain / Kerry show down in 2008 with McCain winning easily.

McCain has done almost everything possible to piss-off the Republican base. He can't get nominated unless he goes ahead and joins the Democrats. All George Allen needs to do is to satisfy the Republican base with his words and actions, and he's a shoo-in to be the next president.

--Bedford 13:15, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

You are correct, McCain will never get the Republican nomination. And I think the United States is ready for a female President, even a Black one. The righties already love her, and she would almost for sure pull votes from the Dems solid base of African-Americans and women. And I doubt Kerry will get the Democratic nomination after the beating he (more specifically, his campaign) took last time. Okay... no more of this talk, back to writing articles. --LV 15:14, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Folks, this page isn't to discuss George Allen, it's to discuss the article about him. I agree with Lord Voldemort's comment: "no more of this talk". For general political conversations, please check out Democratic Underground or Free Republic (those actual websites, not our articles about them). JamesMLane 16:04, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

this guy is becoming important

So the fact that he's divorced should be mentioned

--grazon 01:36, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I added it, but I haven't found the name of his first wife, the date of the marriage, the date of the divorce, or whether there were any children. All I can find is that USA Today says the divorce occurred "in the early 1980s". We should try to get the full information. JamesMLane 03:04, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

this should help

http://www.nndb.com/people/185/000032089/

--grazon 03:44, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Quotations

There is no need for a quotes section in this article. The one quote provided is neither notable nor truly NPOV. What is the point of the quote? To show he swears? To show he cares about money for Virginia? I just don't get it. Wikiquotes is to be used for random direct quotations. Might I suggest you add this there. --LV 16:44, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

did he call the naacp an extermist group+displayed a Confederate flag+a noose at his home?

http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000192.htm

Who cares if he did? I don't. I think the NAACP is an extremist group. He's a former governor of the capital state of the Confederacy. Why shouldn't he have a confederate flag? A noose? Funny sense of humor I think.

Give me something substantive, like he participated in a lynching and you'll have my attention. -dviljoen

Conservatives' front-runner

I was surprised, but I learned earlier in the week that according to a CNN-USA Today-Gallup poll, George Allen is outdoing other conservatives currently in the 2008 race for the GOP nomination. He's at 7%, while Frist is at 6% and Romney is in third. Misplaced Pages, please post this information! -Amit, Feb. 19, 2006

Early Life

Can we get some more on his early life and what his motivations were for getting into politics? He's going to run for President, so we might as well get to know him a little better. Ryanluck 23:17, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

• Perhaps information from this New Republic article should be incorporated? - Jersyko·talk 22:03, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
  • I've added some information from the relevant article and also asked permission from TNR to use the high school yearbook photo in this article. - Jersyko·talk 04:10, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Did Allen become a fan of "southern" culture or "western"? I don't want to register to read the article, but the talk about Hee Haw and cowboy boots sounds more country/western than just southern. --Ajdz 04:33, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

The fascination with Confederate flags sounds like being a fan "southern culture" to me. john k 04:38, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Plus the whole becoming a UVA good old boy thing. john k 04:38, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, if you don't want to register to read the article, why on earth are you questioning the paraphrase of the article by somebody who did? If you want to see if the paraphrase is accurate, read the article. If you don't want to read the article, then don't make comments about what you think it probably says. john k 04:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

That's why I'm asking here, not changing the text. Relax. --Ajdz 18:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'd hoped to get permission to use the yearbook photo from TNR, but I was denied permission to use it without the POV caption. Clearly, we can't use the photo with the caption and adhere to WP:NPOV. It seems they don't want us to use it without the caption, so I won't upload it under a fair use rationale out of respect for their wishes. It's a shame, it's such a nice little picture . . . - Jersyko·talk 17:24, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Confederate flag

Part of my recent edit regarding Allen's display of the Confederate flag as a teenager, which Allen has acknowledged and confirmed in one respect (the yearbook lapel pin) and has stated is "entirely possible" in another (the car flag, which was confirmed via an eyewitness), keeps getting removed. The information is verifiable and sourced. I would like to know why, exactly, it keeps getting removed. - Jersyko·talk 04:36, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

- - Jerysko, The reason it keeps being removed is because you keep re-posting it. This is a cheap political low-blow, the kind of smear jobs that has recently given[REDACTED] such a bad name. http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/28/D8H95FG06.html

I am just struggling to see how the fact that Allen once took a pic with a Confederate flag lapel pin, could be of any value to intellectual discussion. But I see this post and your determination to post it as the obvios political hatchett job that it is. You obviously have an axe to grind against Allen. There is plenty of negative information on Allen(actually probably more than positive) and I have not attempted to erase it.

But I find your blatant attempt to incite hatred of the Senator, by trying to play the race card to be nothing short of reprehensible.

(Also, I may have edited more than three times, but might I remind you that you did the same continually re-posting!) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.75.77.228 (talk • contribs) .

With all due respect, let's assume good faith. I am not attempting a "political hatchet" job in re Allen. I actually know very little about him, or at least I did before I read the New Republic article about him. My intent is merely to present relevant, verifiable, sourced information. The information I presented adheres to all of those criteria, as it is descriptive of Allen's early life (in the "early life" section of the article) and is verifiable via the source cited. It's even been at least partially confirmed by Allen's office itself! (see the article)
Finally, yes, I have reverted your deletion of the information 3 times. You've removed it more than three times, as another editor has stepped in to revert your deletion as well, thus you are in violation of the three revert rule that I've already warned you about on your talk page. I will not report your violation as I know you are a new user here, but please keep it in mind in the future. Let's discuss this here, not through a revert war. As it stands now, at least one other editor agrees with me that the information belongs. Let's see what others have to say. - Jersyko·talk 04:57, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Jersyko, While you may have a point that may be cited, it does not mean that it is worthy of being posted nor does it mean that it should be posted. I can find plenty of sources that claim that Armstrong never walked on the moon, but rather the whole thing was filmed in a television studio. Therefore, just because one Magazine (especially one that has seen its reputation destroyed as result of teh Stephen Glass scandal) reports something does not mean that it is worthy of posting.

My objection to this post is that it is intentionally trying to inject racism in to the political debate. I don't see you or anyone else trying to post the fact that Sen. Allen sponsored a bill, formally apologizing to African-Americans for the government's failure to prevent lynchings in the South. Instead, people are trying to find the one piece of evidence that will label him a racist.

I don't find this to be intellectually honest. If you want to talk about Allen and his record on race. But in the same sentence/paragraph that you talk about Confederate flags please post all of the work he has done to repair race relations in this country. That is if you truly believe in acting "in good faith". comment was added by 71.75.77.228

The reason that no one is trying to post the fact about the lynching apology bill is that the bill is already mentioned in the article, and in fact has been since this edit in November 2005. There's no justification for anyone who dislikes Allen to try to censor that information (and I don't think there's been any attempt to censor it). By the same token, there's no justification for anyone who likes Allen to try to censor the information about his pro-Confederate past and his brush with the law arising from his racist vandalism in high school. JamesMLane t c 06:39, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I give. Mr. Lane has revealed his ideology, and thus proved the point: Misplaced Pages is truly the place for smear politics. You all have taken[REDACTED] and used it to your own ends. You win, I concede, the[REDACTED] universe is obviously not for the likes of me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.75.77.228 (talk • contribs) .

You said, "I can find plenty of sources that claim that Armstrong never walked on the moon, but rather the whole thing was filmed in a television studio." But can you find reliable sources (like a respected newspaper or political journal like TNR) that make that claim? And has Armstrong himself admitted that it was true, like Allen's office confirming the flag lapel pin and saying the car flag was "entirely possible"??? Misplaced Pages is not the place for "smear politics." It is also not the place to carefully choose to include facts that are only praiseworthy of political candidates. The article mentions his use of the confederate flag when he was in high school, but NOWHERE does it say "Allen is a racist." In fact, the article mentions that Allen supported the lynching apology bill last year. The reader is left to form his or her own opinion of Allen; the article is merely presenting the facts from reputable sources. - Jersyko·talk 14:33, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

The article in The New Republic is a major article about Allen in a well-respected (Glass aside) publication. Much of the information in it was apparently confirmed by Allen's office. Personally, I think that more could be said - notably the stuff in his sister's memoirs about him being (essentially) a sadistic bully when they were children might be worth a mention (although I'd prefer to cite directly from the book, and not from Lizza's paraphrase of it). The claims that 71.75.77.228 has made about The New Republic and comparisons of this article to moon hoax theories are the most serious smears here. These seem to verge on defamation of Ryan Lizza. john k 18:28, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Is 129.137.84.230 a sock puppet for 71.75.77.228? Not very mature. This is clearly relevant information, from a reputable source. One plagarizer (Stephen Glass), caught and fired, does not make an entire news outfit (TNR) forever inaccurate. If 71/75.77.228/129.137.84.230 would like to make a wortwhile NPOV contribution to the entry he/she/they should create a new section on "allegations racial insensitivity" that mentions both the New Republic material, Allen's early voting history on issues such Martin Luther King day, and the more recent voting history on issues such apologizing for lynching. Just removing unpleasant but apparnetly truthful information violates the principles of Misplaced Pages, as well as plain honesty. Lucky Adrastus 22:07, 29 April 2006 (UTC)