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User talk:Rich Farmbrough

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Quote of the day

The hedge-sparrow fed the cuckoo so long
 That it had its head bit off by its young.
 So out went the candle, and we were left darkling.The Fool, King Lear

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Drama free days
4445


Retired

I was going to head this section "Wiki-break" because I would love to come back to editing, whether it's bot-running, turtles, viruses, templates, vandal fighting or hosting at tea-house.

Unfortunately when I look at the options open to me, I find I am hemmed in at every turn by the hasty actions of one administrator a couple of years ago that have gradually made editing a misery instead of a pleasure.

The option of a clean start is denied to me, the only way I can make the contributions I want to on Misplaced Pages is either if I fight to get the editing restrictions removed (they run 'til the end of time) and the arbcom decision overturned, or if the community were to offer me an amnesty. I do not have the energy for the former, and I can virtually write the script if someone were to request the latter.

While I enjoy a robust discussion, the conversations I have been having with (doubtless well meaning) arbitrators are such that they never give ground to mere reason, only (and then reluctantly, and not always) to incontrovertible fact. It also pains me that in order to get a tiny concession from an administrator it took two months of work and she was "quite upset" (which in British English means "very upset") at the end of it. I am not here to upset people, I am here to make knowledge available.

From 2007, following multiple bereavements I was suffering for a long time from clinical depression, a fact which I shared with no-one for at least three years. I am proud to have made it through this tough time, and working on Misplaced Pages, and the camaraderie helped. But starting September 2010, a particularly nasty AN/I thread was kicked off and from there on in things have been downhill. I have no intention of returning to those dark days, and having had occasion recently to review the AN/I threads and the Arbcom case I have been reminded how awful they were.

I happened to notice, this morning, that {{Wikify}} has been deprecated. I would have liked to have been on the discussion, as I have been very involved with that template - I took a brief look at the edit history, and saw that my last edit (in 2011) had been reverted by Fram. It brought it home just how much he is there at every turn, backed up by CBM and people who make their mind up before they know the facts, and then are not prepared to change it.

So as of now I will be doing the following:

  • Logging out of en:Misplaced Pages
  • Once my block has expired I will only fix articles I am reading, and that as an IP.
  • I will pursue the current wrongful talk-page block of Penyulap, the abuses involved in that, and possibly his initial block
  • I will consider helping with template coding if I receive email requests
  • I will consider doing bot runs, if I receive an email request, but the requester will have to deal with ArbCom
  • I may tinker with my user-space pages to prepare an appeal to ArbCom, but it is unlikely
  • I may check my talk page from time to time, deal with archiving, and respond there.

To all other intents and purposes on en:Misplaced Pages, for the time being at least, this editor is:


RETIRED


All the best. Rich Farmbrough, 12:36, 9 November 2012 (UTC).

Goodbye

All the best Rich. I have hopes that Misplaced Pages will improve. It may not be now, but it will be in the future. I hope to see you come back when that happens. Don't let yourself get identified as you when you're editing as an IP.—cyberpower Limited Access 16:46, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Rich, EN Misplaced Pages is currently in a bizarre state and after the way you've been treated I can see the logic in leaving. Personally I'm now spending most of my Wiki time on Commons rather than Misplaced Pages, and I must say that I'd recommend it. No Arbcom, much gnomish stuff to be done and it is easier to be productive. Hopefully we'll see more of you there. ϢereSpielChequers 17:53, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Sad to see you go

I understand how you feel Rich. Lord knows I have made my opinions about the situation known and I am sorry if I caused you any additional discomfort in that. I just couldn't sit by and watch the things that were going on. I basically retired from editing myself and only came back to comment on the block. Since you haev decided to Retire as well, I see no resaon to continue to fight an admittedly lost cause.

I truly do wish you the best and I hope this all turns out for the best. I will likely not be editing again after this either. I think this will be marked as one of the saddest days of Misplaced Pages. Good luck my friend. Kumioko (talk) 18:51, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Farewell

There are some real bastards around here.
You are not one of those.
The other languages of WP are a lot less vexing. Varlaam (talk) 00:50, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh, boo, hiss!

The Bastards! I was been wondering when it would come to this. This is a sad day for Misplaced Pages. The Bastards will be jolly proud of themselves. Whilst one might read the preceding phrase with a touch of irony, I'm actually sure the Bastards are actually proud of themselves for having eliminated "an enemy". But for me, I'm just gutted that one of my first ports of call just been hounded out of wiki-existence. <sniff, sob, blows nose on hankie> -- Ohconfucius  01:55, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

C'est la vie

Thanks It's been a pleasure getting to know you here and in real life as well, Rich. I hope that the time comes when you change your mind, but if not, I hope that you'll find some other venue for helping to give free knowledge to others. I don't know all of the ins and outs of all of your disputes, but I do know that you've been nothing but a gentleman to me and the world could use a few more of them. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:09, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to see you go

It is a real shame to see the second most prolific editor retire from Misplaced Pages. I too have had editing restrictions placed on me as a result of Frams actions. In both case the wiki-punishment does not suit the perceived "wiki-crime" IMO. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 14:38, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

And for years, the single most prolific, for any newcomers reading this.
Varlaam (talk) 16:01, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Fram should be the one retiring intsead of Rich IMO. Kumioko (talk) 16:57, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
It is
The Reader
that we should consider on each and every edit we make to Misplaced Pages.
Even though Fram has reduced my enjoyment of Misplaced Pages editing and is responsible for my editing restriction I would not want her/him to retire. However she/he should be concious of the fact that we are here to create an encyclopedia that is useful for The Reader. Hounding prolific editors who may make occasional mistakes or may ignore policy/guidelines/sanctions for the greater good should not be done. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 19:18, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps that was a bit harsh of me. It does seem to me though that the cost to the pedia from Fram's shenanigans and blocks is more of a harm than the good work that he does do. Perhaps if he doesn't pursue blocking every editor as though its his personal mission to see them banned for the most trivial of offenses, then I might feel differently. Perhaps if he starts using his admin tools as more of a tool than a weapon then that might help me to change my pessimistic and skeptical attitude about his actions. Kumioko (talk) 19:55, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Another experienced contributor lost

I am very sorry to see you go. It is disgusting to see how some long-term contributors are being treated lately. Misplaced Pages has a serious problem for sure. I wish you all the best. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 12:30, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and I included you in the list on my userpage. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 12:32, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 12 November 2012

Should you wish any assistance, feel free to write to me

The Signpost: 19 November 2012

Merge discussion for Beryllium poisoning

An article that you have been involved in editing, Beryllium poisoning , has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Scray (talk) 05:13, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Damnation

All I have to say. Sorry to see you go; I really hope you reconsider. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoLo dicono a Signa. 17:34, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Category:Andra albums

Category:Andra albums, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mike Selinker (talk) 18:35, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Category:The Answer albums

Category:The Answer albums, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mike Selinker (talk) 18:38, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Category:Faze video albums

Category:Faze video albums, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mike Selinker (talk) 19:08, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Two Requests

Hi Rich Farmbrough, this is Colton Cosmic. I noticed where you understood my position at Jimbo Wales' talk page. I am asking you to consider posting the following for me at en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations (there's a "request" button halfway down the page).

Brace yourself for a lot of words. I am requesting a sockpuppet investigation on myself. The reason is that I was indefinitely blocked without discussion by "Timotheus Canens" on his sockpuppeting charges, which are not true. I view these charges as a slur on my integrity and I don't want them to sit on my user page for the next 500 years as if they were true. I have come to realize that that I need an admin ally for this. If that's you, I promise to adhere better to WP:CIV. I saw a wikihounding bully going at someone else, and I saw a policy or guideline for admin behavior (I later found it was only "essay") premised on a suicide metaphor and I responded too sharply to both of those.
Now, if you look at my talk page, there's a bunch of longwinded quarreling there. I regret that you have to read any of it to make a determination. I can tell you I didn't want to read it either, or respond to it. Where do they come from, I don't know. An editor MastCell I don't know from Adam pops up at my talkpage to interrogate me about prior accounts, without explanation, and finishes by calling me a liar. There's plenty more catcalling there from the peanut gallery, I don't think I should be blamed for that, or having to respond to it. I don't want you to have to read it.
The only stuff you need to look for, the pertinent matter in my view, is evidence of sockpuppeting or "abuse of multiple accounts," this is what I was purportedly blocked for. I never sockpuppeted. I never had "multiple accounts." I had a single previous account that I abandoned because of an outing, and moved on to the current. This is WP:CLEANSTART. I am not required to disclose the name of the previous account. That would defeat a major purpose of WP:CLEANSTART. In my view it would violate WP:FAITH as well. As a note, this seems to be the core motivation of those acted against me, from "Timotheus Canens" to BWilkins to ArbCom: they sniff and sniff for the prior account.
Now. CheckUser. I do *not* request a CheckUser on me. I do request to know if a CheckUser *has* been done on me. I am interested to know this, because I do suspect it, and there was never a basis for it.
Last, I never want to write longwinded detail, but the problem is I've found that admins rely on the allegations and arguments of others and find against me. So I have to address, I guess, the particulars of those that I suppose might work against me. Briefly: BWilkins never made me an offer, unless "give me $50 and I may give you my bicycle is an offer." Nomoskedacity's accusation of 3RR violation does not stand up to scrutiny, I reverted twice, just look at it. Beeblebrox' statement against me relies repeatedly on conflation and confusion, it's sleight of hand, it's not straightforward at all, I never said I didn't block evade and she or he knows it, but at least she or he didn't call me sockpuppet. Last, ArbCom did not block me, it only declined without explanation to unblock me. Any admin can unblock me. You're not going to risk the ire of ArbCom, you may find yourself at odds with "Timotheus Canens." You need more answers, unblock my page, and we'll go from there.
Thank you for your consideration, please do me an SPI and post the results at the top of my user page. Colton Cosmic.

Mr. Farmbrough, I understand if you choose not to do this. If that is the case, would you at least post at my user page that I maintain as of 25 Nov. 2012 that I did not sockpuppet or abuse multiple accounts. Colton Cosmic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.211.155.191 (talk) 16:36, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

BWilkins "offer" was well meant, but fails in that transferring restrictions would invalidate the cleanstart, moreover if there were editing restrictions a cleanstart is not permitted (See my retirement statement above.)
My take on this scenario is not that you should not be blocked or banned, but that there is no clear case made, where it can be reviewed in the best wiki-traditions of openness. Moreover this seems to be a fairly endemic situation, ranging across the gamut from marginal value beginning editors, through established editors, to the very illuminati of the community (one previous arb was treated very shabbily by the community).
And, moreover, we get into convoluted situations where the original "offence" becomes irrelevant, but we are blocking or banning because of the way the editor responded to the initial sanction, regardless of it's merits.
Now as to your request, the checkuser audit subcommittee are the people to ask whether a checkuser has been done on you. If you feel that this has been abused then your only on-wiki resort, apart form Arbcom which essentially comprises the people who appoint checkusers, most of whom sit or sat on arbcom, or are arbcom clerks, is an Ombudsman. The Ombudsmen are listed on Meta.
Rich Farmbrough, 17:50, 26 November 2012 (UTC).

The Signpost: 26 November 2012

AfD

Please see Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Beyond Eagle and Swastika, since you contributed to the article. Thanks. BigJim707 (talk) 03:08, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


Categorization

Rich,

Do you know of any way of adding all Talk: pages that are in both Category:Misplaced Pages requested photographs of mountains and Category:WikiProject British and Irish hills to a new category I created, Category:Misplaced Pages requested photographs of mountains in the United Kingdom. I was thinking AWB, but I am unsure on how to implement it and going through the whole category by hand is taking far too long. Thanks--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 20:19, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

I think you cracked this, but if not, use the list maker from the tools menu of AWB - the way it works will be obvious once you open it. I would suggest that the next step is to change the template that is creating the "requested photographs" category to create the sub-category by using a suitable parameter. Rich Farmbrough, 23:00, 15 December 2012 (UTC).
With some help from the bot requests desk yes, but thanks. Are you referring to the {{reqphoto}} template? Do you mean I should edit that to allow adding a parameter to that so it adds it to the category automatically? Thanks --Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 00:50, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes but I think it already has all you need. {{Image requested|of mountains in the United Kingdom}} should do the job. Rich Farmbrough, 01:52, 16 December 2012 (UTC).

Transcend

My suggestion is to ignore the drama and contribute in ways nobody expects.

You could transcend all the bullshit and contribute, using your expert programming skills, in ways that will blow everyone's mind.

You could apply programs to articles off-line, and then upload the finished results one article at a time. (I'm not referring to typo-fixing or spell-checking here).

Do you have Misplaced Pages installed offline yet?

I'd say this may be the time for you to take Misplaced Pages's technology to the next level.

Make Misplaced Pages more intelligent. If anyone can do it, it's you.

Think about it. Look deep. Right now, experience a flash of genius. The Transhumanist 21:49, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the support.
It is frustrating because the work I was doing was really only very small parts of getting Misplaced Pages ready for adulthood. The lack of vision of some portion of the community took me by surprise, because those of us from "way back when" had to have vision in order to consider it worthwhile contributing to WP as is was all those years ago (and more so in earlier years, perhaps). Nonetheless there is a great deal that I can contribute, even with these ridiculous sanctions in place, however I prefer not to discuss it because I know that there are folk who would attempt to sabotage it (much as I find it hard to believe emotionally, evidence cannot be forever denied). Rich Farmbrough, 02:01, 16 December 2012 (UTC).

(Incidentally I am banned form using external programs to edit Misplaced Pages articles, and from using cut and paste. Of course the restrictions are so ludicrous that I am forced to break them with every edit, some folk said that is why they were passed, I lean to believing in incompetence rather than conspiracy.) Rich Farmbrough, 02:01, 16 December 2012 (UTC).

First of all, they can't ban you from editing a fork of Misplaced Pages that resides on your own computer. Because that's not this Misplaced Pages. They can't override the GFDL. Anyone can fork Misplaced Pages. A fork is the best place to test new tools anyways.
Speaking of forks, none of the documentation I could find on installing Misplaced Pages locally were of much help. WikiTaxi was easy to understand and install, but it doesn't support copy and paste and therefore is almost useless. I'd like a copy of Misplaced Pages on my own computer that looks, feels, and operates exactly like the one I access online with respect to browsing and editing, and that I can practice using WP:AWB on.
Do you have a copy of Misplaced Pages installed locally? If so, please explain step-by-step how you did it, so the rest of us can do so too without going bald from pulling all of our hair out! If not, please install it, and record how you did it as you go. Then tell us so that we can all benefit from having a Misplaced Pages clone to experiment on and use as a backup system.
Many editors would install Misplaced Pages locally if someone like you made it easy for them to do so. And I would be the first in line! The Transhumanist 02:17, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
The problem with doing that is that editing a fork has limited value. Should I make the fork publicly available maybe a little more, there are sites for such forks. Eventually the content needs to be synchronised, though, sense is to make the edits here and let them flow out. There are a number of fork-bases already existing, some of which I may work on/with. Rich Farmbrough, 02:29, 24 December 2012 (UTC).
Limited value, yes. A huge sandbox! I want one. I'm stuck. Please help. The Transhumanist 02:48, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries Seattle

Decemmber 8 - Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries Seattle - You're invited
Seattle Public Library
  • Date Saturday, December 8, 2012
  • Time 10 a.m. – 3 p.m.
  • Location Seattle Public Library Meeting Room 1 on Level 4, Central Library, 1000 4th Avenue, Seattle WA, 98104
  • Event An editathon on Seattle-related Misplaced Pages articles with Misplaced Pages tutorials and Librarian assistance on hand.
  • Hashtag #wikiloveslib or #glamwiki.
  • Registration http://wll-seattle.eventbrite.com or use on-wiki regsistration.

Yours, Maximilianklein (talk) 04:14, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you go? How was it? The Transhumanist 02:29, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Apple models

Template:Apple models has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • 13:07, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Blockages

This is Colton Cosmic. Rich, well thank you for responding. I tried to see what you were hassled about too, but it got into a universe of tools and automated or scripted edits that I understand little. I've done plenty of edits but all of a simple hand-made variety. I saw where you had the week-long block on automated editing, I suppose it was that made indefinite at some point, as you still seem to be able to edit articles by hand. We both seem to have had troubles based on our response to blocks, which is held by some to be separable from the validity or abusiveness of the block itself. I see it in metaphor of a wrongly-convicted person escaping from prison. There is no moral failure in doing so. Of course I'm not so wrapped up in my own case that I don't recognize reality is generally more muddled than the metaphor.

I'll accept that BWilkins "offer" was not deliberately deceptive, but not that it was well meant. "You do X and I *may* do Y" is not an offer, unless stretching it as an offer of *consideration* in return for an action. "You do X and, if A, B, and C apply, I *will* do Y" is an offer. Anyhow the real motive was the confessed "talkpage stalker's" desire to sniff around my pre-clean start account. His or her subsequent attemptedly intimidating comment confirms there was little in the way of good intentions.

I would indeed like to know if a check-user was done on me, but right now I've got to get unblocked. Perhaps it was silly of me to ponder requesting an SPI on myself for vindication of whatever-his-name-was's uncommented, undiffed, policy-free block of me. I just need to find an admin willing to evaluate the evidence (none has ever been offered) and willing to separate my admittedly defiant response to the block from the circumstances of the block itself. Colton Cosmic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.211.155.135 (talk) 13:45, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 03 December 2012

Update small

You recently moved {{Update small}} to {{Update inline}}. I used the former name to avoid confusion with {{Update-inline}}, which is a different template. Your move ;-) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:59, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, we had a conversation about this in April. AnomieBot was still breaking things so I've fixed them. Rich Farmbrough, 15:33, 10 December 2012 (UTC).

Coordinate errors affecting multiple infoboxes

Please see Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Infoboxes#Coordinate errors affecting multiple infoboxes. Your assistance would be appreciated. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:11, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Template:Lincoln cabinet sidebar for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Template:Lincoln cabinet sidebar is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Template:Lincoln cabinet sidebar until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Mitchumch (talk) 07:40, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for moving the discussion page.
In regards to your suggestion for merging the content to the infobox, could you check this edit on 00:44, 9 December 2012 for Abraham Lincoln to see if that would satisfy you concern. It was reverted by one of the notified users for this discussion. I haven't received any communication with user Alanscottwalker, but I think I can address the white space issue brought up by the user. Thanks again.
Mitchumch (talk) 08:34, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
Probably you can negotiate that no problem, the best thing to do, though, is to wait for the TfD to conclude. Folk get upset, sometimes, if a template is orphaned before the TfD is finished. Rich Farmbrough, 12:12, 11 December 2012 (UTC).

The Signpost: 10 December 2012

Back

I know we don't see eye to eye on most things, but I just wanted to say I'm glad to see you back editing. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:17, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Well that's nice of you. But I'm by no means back. I consider writing some kind of Arbcom appeal, fro time to time, but very likely it would be a complete waste of time. Moreover every time I look at the idiocy that happened it makes me feel ill. And of course it continues. Jclemens will probably fail to get in, but for the wrong reasons. YOu may well fail to get elected, also for the wrong reasons. Penyualp has had no response from the Ombudsman. I have had no response from Arbcom. Courcelles appears to be unaware he has done anything wrong. Carl continues to edit war and vandalize and get away with it. Fram is probably still creating thousands of useless categories, and if no longer persecuting Alan Leitfing will have found a new victim. And I certainly see the usual suspects causing trouble and casting unwarranted aspersions on the community/WMF/Jimbo, when there are actually plenty of real problems to deal with. Meanwhile little or no energy is left to deal pro-actively with tricky situations like caste in India, let alone creating new articles (we have abysmal coverage of viruses, very little on genetic codes, thousands of missing articles on notable people, most of our other language editions are a joke and we still block new editors rather than welcome them). Rich Farmbrough, 22:49, 15 December 2012 (UTC).
Here, here. Kumioko (talk) 02:09, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
You should reset the drama free days counter above back to zero. The Transhumanist 02:44, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

IPExchange

I saw your you listed on the iBridge entry. How about stating an entry for IPExchange? Steven McIntire ALLEN 01:26, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Keep on

You gotta keep on and come back to Misplaced Pages my friend. Dudes like you are the reason dudes like me are still fighting. Ramwithaxe talk 09:58, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I estimate it will take a month or so to sort out the Courcelles affair, then I need to examine some of the previous actions in regard to Penyulap. Then I will need to unwind the arbitration case which will probably take a year or longer. Then the editing restrictions. Then I will need an RFA... at which all the previous items will be re-hashed. It would be an attractive result if it could be achieve, but the work and grief to achieve it are enormous. Rich Farmbrough, 18:01, 20 December 2012 (UTC).
Getting older, I am realizing sometimes the pencil-pushers win, but ultimately all lose. If you are unable to find your way through that maze of red tape and remain lost to the website, your eloquence and clear-minded presence as a Wikipedian will be missed. Ramwithaxe (talk) 05:45, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Your name has been mentioned

. I see Sandy.Georgia hasn't had the courtesy to tell you. I'm sure you'll have an opinion you want to offer. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:49, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

And people wonder why I don't like Arbcom (the process not the members individually)

This and the conversations occurring on the Arbcom talk pages these days pretty much sum it up. Welcome back. Kumioko (talk) 19:34, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Well I was pleased to see that Risker understood what I have been going through for the past two years. Unfortunately it seems that while if it were part of her in-group, it would be legitimate suffering and grounds for complaint, if it is part of her out-group, then that's just peachy. This is not uncommon where people see those of other groups as, not necessarily less than human, but certainly "tainted". I could cite the widow of an Irish terrorist who thought it was awful that her husband had been killed in front of his children, but just fine that he had killed terrorists on the other side, in front of their children. I could cite the lady experiencing prejudice, who, when Isaac Asimov suggested helping another discriminated against group, said "We need to take care of our own first" and could not see the contradiction. But it was ever thus, and saving a small proportion who have the moral guts to say to themselves "There but for the grace of God go I" probably ever will be. Rich Farmbrough, 20:13, 19 December 2012 (UTC).
Generals in modern warfare are seldom injured as they are rarely ever in a position of danger. It is the soldiers, those on the front lines who are most often injured or killed who ensure those generals stay safe and protected, far from danger. It is those same soldiers who are then deemed by those generals to be expendable and the losses acceptable as long as the cause is justified. The generals themselves not needing to worry about the status of things in the trenches, on the front lines. In many respects this is akin to how the Arbcom and many in the admin corps view us normal editors. We are merely expendable and can be cast off when necessary or when deemed desireable by those in positions of power because in this caste system we are weak and without power. We are helpless. Kumioko (talk) 20:36, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!
Maybe waxing a little dramatic, but it is a good verse. I do think, though, that the key issue is culture. In fact I'd go as far as to say it is the only issue. Rich Farmbrough, 23:42, 19 December 2012 (UTC).

FYI

. Compare further discussion on Elen's talk. Bishonen | talk 12:08, 20 December 2012 (UTC).

Thanks to you both for your input. @Rich: Less verbose, please. It helps others to think. – SJ + 22:45, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
Ah, well, useful advice. I'm commonly accused of being too laconic. Rich Farmbrough, 23:08, 20 December 2012 (UTC).

The Signpost: 17 December 2012

Yo Ho Ho

ϢereSpielChequers is wishing you Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Xmas, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:WereSpielChequers/Dec12}} to your friends' talk pages.

Season's Greetings!

Happy children want you to be happy too!

Happy children join me in extending the best possible Season's Greetings to you and your loved ones at this time of year, and if you don't celebrate the usual holidays (Diwali, Xmas, Hanukkah, Eid, Kwanzaa, etc....), then we will still wish you a Happy Festivus. All the best: HarryZilber (talk) 22:13, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Harry, this is more or less the best holiday greeting ever :) Rich, happy holidays from me too! – SJ + 02:47, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Season's tidings!

To you and yours, Have a Merry ______ (fill in the blank) and Happy New Year! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 02:16, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

IMDb task

Hi Rich, Merry Xmas and all that. I just saw at the top of your talkpage you say about emails possibly being filtered off as spam; I was wondering if this might have happened to my emails reminding you of that IMDb correction bot task. If so, how are you getting on with it? If not, I'd like an update anyway please. Thanks Rich. Rcsprinter (Gimme a message) No, I'm Santa Claus! @ 10:50, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Still waiting. Rcsprinter (natter) @ 05:59, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
I did something preliminary on this. I'll download the Simple dump overnight and see if I can achieve something tomorrow. Rich Farmbrough, 03:35, 5 January 2013 (UTC).
How did it go? Rcsprinter (chat) @ 20:52, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
I don't have AWB privs on Simple (thought I did) I have requested them, lets see what happens. Rich Farmbrough, 10:16, 14 January 2013 (UTC).

I just reviewed the ArbCom remedies and amendments...

It appears to primarily restrict automated contributions of any type, including meatbot activity.

That's not so bad. It just means you are a human editor again, and not a cyborg.  :)

It appears you can still edit offline, but that you can't post anything generated in an automated fashion. Therefore, words from your own fingertips can be cut and pasted as per normal. They apparently want your edits to come from you and not a program. Period.

That's not so bad.

You have all of the privileges of an editor except automation. It appears that they want you to learn to be human again. Like you lost touch with your humanity.

It's starting to sound like we're in an Isaac Asimov novel.

My recommendations are to become a more close-knit member of the community, as follows:

  • Write and edit articles. Contribute facts, not just wikignome edits.
  • Participate in policy and forum discussions
  • Join in a WikiProject or two, and a help desk.
  • Participate in bot department discussions
  • Help other users to design and create bots - Share your expertise
  • Help enforce the bot rules
  • Become an admin again

You need to shrug off your reputations of being a lone wolf and loose cannon.

You can do that by getting more personally involved with the community. Become our teacher. Trust will build quickly.

Besides, you will have much greater impact when you start enabling others in the use of the tools you are so expert with. That is a great resource to Misplaced Pages, but it is of limited use when only in the hands of a single individual.

Please consider it. Thank you. The Transhumanist 06:45, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Ok I do (or did) all of the above, pretty much. I was probably one of the most frequent contributors to Bot discussions who has not been in BAG, I am (was?) a TeahouseHost, I answered many questions on WP talk:AWB (and logged many bugs), I have published more AWB settings files than anyone else, I have written custom AWB files for people, and I have loaned hardware to others to run their bots. As for enforcing bot rules, the only current violator I am aware of got me a trout slap, last time I pointed out that he was bullying another editor at AN/I. The matter of policy and process I am working on. It's an uphill struggle these days, because we have an establishment, which reacts to any attempt at improving things as an attack on the status quo.
Lets look though at one example of sharing - just to see where it got me.
I share the code to resolve specific redirects. That is used by AnomieBot (and AWB) to duplicate a part of HPB's functionality - I encouraged the duplication, just as I did with LegoBot and others.
AnomieBot then is tuned to operate slightly faster than HPB, in hidden code (Anomie says the bot code is published, but obviously this is selective, and probably, since Anomie produces such great code, controlled by a pragma or something). Net result, Anomie undermines the other good fixes that HPB was doing not merely by being a backup in case HPB fails, but by running constantly, and at a lesser time delay.
I get hung drawn and quartered, reservations that what I do will be lost are assuaged by the presence of AnomieBot.
Meanwhile the lack of the HPB fixes causes many problems on Wiki, six months to a year of my life are wasted, Anomie gets a job with WMF.
Basically one cannot write content without using cut and paste - suggesting that I type out my references and quotes in full is ludicrous. The fact is that to be a good arbitrator requires integrity, time, and an understanding of technical matters, process matters, content matters and people. Very few folk can tick all these boxes, and very few arbs can either. Total fail is not uncommon "Most of us have legal training" remarked one arb - which means "One or two of us have been to law school, and most of the rest have been sent on a day course about employment law at some time." It is very difficult to deal with people who will make statements like this on a public forum and think it acceptable.
As for becoming an admin again I think an RFA would be a blood bath. I hope I am wrong. I think also that Arbcom knew that, which makes the desysopping particularly disingenuous.
Well we have a number of new arbitrators now (soon), I tried a non-confrontational approach, asking to be allowed to archive my talk page at least, instead they banned me from making amendment requests for six months. It might be worth seeing if the current arbcom thinks that saying "Tosh" constitutes gratuitous incivility.
Rich Farmbrough, 13:04, 24 December 2012 (UTC).

I've been browsing the messages above. There's so much anxiety on this talk page. It doesn't matter whose fault it was. Accepting that is the first step in your recovery. You understand how to repair relationships. You have to swallow something. It starts with two words. You know what they are.

Concerning your loss, just accept it. You should forget about using automation for awhile. It may feel like your right arm has been amputated, but it's only your cyborg arms that have been removed. Don't try to get your automation tools back. Not until you after you've been an admin again for at least six months. Rebuild the community's trust in your use of tools one stage at a time, starting with the only tools ArbCom has left you to work with: your fingertips on the bare keys.

RFA is also a ways off. At least a year. The community will respond to your nomination based upon the degree of your cordial community involvement, enthusiastic contributions, and positive influence. You must have a change of heart. You can't fake that. All residual indignation must be washed away for good. You must lose the attitude.

You've gotten so tangled up in an emotional thicket that you need to start over. They're basically requiring you to start over. So do exactly that.

Stop. From now on, avoid spreading negativity like the plague. Stop feeling injured, and griping, complaining, and maneuvering ArbCom amendments.

Then start up again with a fresh approach. Relax. Continuously use non-confrontational ways to promote progress and improve this encyclopedia. For every obstacle in this wiki, there are a dozen ways to creatively and peacefully transcend it. Find them.

Act swiftly, but be patient – there are many other things to work on here while you are waiting. Impatience breeds frustration, rashness, and editcountitis. Patience changes you. Gives you time to see things you would have otherwise missed. Provides opportunity to find diplomatic alternatives.

Focus on improving the encyclopedia and its community on-line, one word at a time. Diplomatically. You are limited to completely manual edits, that is, to human communication.

The point seems to be that they wish for you to forget about your rank on the List of Wikipedians by number of edits and concentrate on personal involvement with other editors. And to get over your difficulty in dealing with the people around here, regardless of how difficult they may be.

Therefore...

Be at peace.

Be nice.

Be effective, in the broadest sense of the word: by enabling and inspiring others to build.

See this as an opportunity to rise above all expectations. Including your own. How?

Lead, by teaching others how to build and assisting them in their efforts to do so. This isn't about you or me or ArbCom. It's about the Misplaced Pages community, and making knowledge freely available to all the people of the World.

That's worth swallowing one's pride for.

Misplaced Pages is on the cutting edge, as a presentation platform and also as a social experiment. It needs experts with vision. We are waiting for you to step forward.

Help show us the way. Not to fight, but to build. Build teamwork. Build pages. Build tools. Build departments. Build the best encyclopedia the World has never dreamed of.

Join the party. Mix and mingle. Start interesting conversations. Be the spark of the community's creativity.

You mentioned "getting Misplaced Pages ready for adulthood". That sounds like a good place to begin. What did you mean by "adulthood"? What features and tools would that require? What would a grown up Misplaced Pages be like? The Transhumanist 02:44, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

I really appreciate the effort and intentions behind these posts.
None of the little effort I expend on en:WP these days is related to amending my Arb case, although I may attempt to try and fix that in the new year. I am trying to alert Wikipedians in a gentle way to serious threats.
In particular you may have seen the post I made at Village Pump. Editors' details are being subpoenaed wholesale - maybe because I couched this in slightly humorous language I have received no feedback from the community. I, however, feel that the right to edit anonymously, provided no laws are broken, is worth fighting for. Of course I choose not to edit pseudonymously myself. But the vast majority of the community do, they seem however uninterested in this attack on their rights to privacy and the chilling effect this could have on free speech.
I have also been working on editor retention. (There are only three ways we can affect the amount achieved on Misplaced Pages: Automation and efficiency, editor numbers and editor time.}
I have also been helping editors who have been the subject of dubious sanctions, so far the items I have been working on this month have been successful.
I continued editing for a long time after the arb case. I didn't flounce out. An editor who tries to forment disputes went to considerable trouble to get me blocked. It's cool, it is just part of the Wiki-landscape. But effectively my hands are tied vis-a-vis editing content, and my reputation, such as it was, is tarnished. It is not unknown for Arbcom to reverse a decision, and it is merely an unfortunate series of events that led to the case ending how it did. The vast majority of Arbcom are well meaning, intelligent people. The biggest problem was the change of drafting arbitrator in the middle of the case (and that no-one was notified). Leaking my first email to the other parties in the case wasn't exactly brilliant either...

.

Anyway, I tire of the case, and as I say, talking about it achieves nothing. I intend to persue a few of other key issues I outlined above, and I may potter or tinker. But until things change there is little content-wise I can achieve on en:WP. Rich Farmbrough, 03:27, 27 December 2012 (UTC).
Then you are back! Cool.
By the way, talking about your community involvement has proved both revealing and interesting. That's a worthwhile achievement in my opinion, and a necessary step to earning back your revoked account privileges.
I'm still concerned about your attitude with respect to ArbCom's findings of fact. Your replies so far seem to imply denial of any rule breaking. If and when you accept a nomination for adminship, the community will go over your and your bots' editing records with a fine-toothed comb. So before then you will need to own up to any rule-breaking you did, however emotionally painful that might be to you. Trust is based on honesty, and honesty includes taking responsibility for past transgressions. To start over with a clean slate, you must first come clean.
Your current opinion on the types of situation that ArbCom expressed concern about, will also be extremely important. That is, how would you approach such situations that you might come across in the future? For example...
  • If you were given the admin tools again, what would you do if you encountered a bot-running admin who unblocked his own bot after another admin had blocked it?
  • How would you handle an editor you found to be editing non-rendered white space?
  • Someone asks you what to do about a bot account running high-speed tasks. What would your answer be?
  • What's the difference between high-speed tasks that are allowed and those that are disallowed?
  • What is the proper procedure when you notice a run of high-speed edits on a personal account, with no AWB or other semi-automated tool tagline in the edit summaries?
  • What is an unapproved bot task?
  • What can legitimately be done with a bot on-the-fly?
And your views on other issues would also be examined. I'm guessing that due to the intensity of your ArbCom proceeding, some of the questions will be cutting or even wild...
  • How have you ruffled feathers in past discussions? How would you handle those discussion if you got to do them over?
  • Who are you more like, Teddy Roosevelt or Gandhi?
The community will want to know what your attitudes are, and that you do not feel that you are above or beyond the reach of the rules. They will also want to know that you are a people person and not a virtual cyborg gone rogue.
Repairing your reputation is going to take some self-searching on your part. But I have faith in you. My guess is that most of the Misplaced Pages community does too.
By the way, welcome home. The Transhumanist 21:30, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
P.S.: I look forward to your answers to the above questions. I expect they will be most revealing. The Transhumanist 21:30, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

I have emailed you a brief example of why the FoF are an epic fail. The suggestion that (1984-like) I should admit to stuff I haven't done is not useful. As for the questions above, you will have to wait for any RfA for answers

It seems I always come across apposite quotes, in relation to the suggestion that we should here is one from Craig Murray:

On the question of style, of course I agree that the objective of being an Ambassador is to maximise my influence. But you don't gain influence by being a pushover. You don't gain influence by never saying anything interesting, by sticking to the crowd. You gain influence by being more informed. Intelligent, articulate and outspoken. You gain influence by being formidable, by being a factor that must be taken into account.

While I don't equate the hierarchy on Misplaced Pages with the people Murray had to deal with, there are non-trivial matters at stake here.

  1. The quality of the encyclopaedia, with all that rests on that. Misplaced Pages per se may not be around in 100 or even 10 years, but it is very important at the moment.
  2. Discrimination. We know the effects this can have.
  3. Data protection and privacy. This in turn can be life threatening in certain regimes.
  4. Defamation of character. this can affect the livelihoods of people, and more.
  5. Destruction of the community, alienation of contributors.

And it is important to remember while we look at our august administrators, arbitrators and other functionaries, that historically the roster includes sock-puppeteers, copyright violators and fraudsters. That is why process is important, we have literally life-and-death matters in the hands of the committee, who leak private information and make other egregious mistakes almost with every case. I should perhaps compile a dossier of these matters, there is at least one book in preparation on the seamy side of Misplaced Pages, but it will cherry-pick the "meaty" items, stalkers, mantemorland, essjay, Sigenthaler and so on. The truth is, appalling as these incidents were, if they were all there was it would not be a problem, the real problem is the ongoing low level abuse of the system as a tool of conflict, partly due to the abusers, partly due to the system, but mainly due to those of us that allow the abuse to continue.

Rich Farmbrough, 22:46, 29 December 2012 (UTC).

Assistance request on the ACICS "talk" page

Rich Farmbrough wrote on my "talk" page:

I would appreciate your sage advice on Talk:Accrediting Council for Independent Colleges and Schools, in response to some areas of general ignorance of mine. Rich Farmbrough, 18:31, 22 December 2012 (UTC).

To which I responded:

Okeedokie. I'll head over and see what you're talking about. Gregg L. DesElms (Username: Deselms) (talk) 19:41, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
UPDATE: I've now written a quite long section over there. Gregg L. DesElms (Username: Deselms) (talk) 05:26, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
Many thanks! Rich Farmbrough, 00:32, 25 December 2012 (UTC).

The Signpost: 24 December 2012

Derwick Associates

Hello Rich, I am reaching out after seeing your comment on the Derwick Associates page. It seems like you noticed a lot of NPOV and Undue weight, and I was hoping you might be able to lend an eye once again when you are free. Can you take a look at the Talk:Derwick Associates#Specific concerns section? I posted it on the talk page with the hopes of opening a dialogue, but FinanceReferee hasn't commented. What are your thoughts on the matter? They receive a lot of media attention in Venezuela from the non-state-run media for corruption, so it seems strange to me that it isn't included. Should I pursue the incident on AN/I? Justiciero1811 (talk) 20:06, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

AN/I is only for situations requiring administrative intervention. The best places to get extra eyes are WikiProjects.aybe Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Venezuela, Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Business or Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Energy. I haven't the language skills to pursue the Venezualan media reports, unfortunately. Rich Farmbrough, 20:34, 27 December 2012 (UTC).

Category backlog, project backlogs?

Greetings! Thank you for your contributions here. I am active with WikiProject Medicine, and I contacted Alvin Seville to thank them for their edits to Category:Misplaced Pages backlog. I also expressed my interest in getting a page like that established for content tagged as being under WikiProject Medicine. In an ideal world, I think bots would keep project-specific backlog pages like that maintained indefinitely. I'm sorry to hear a related bot of yours was blocked. Do you think you could help me get a bot like this going? Maybe a former bot of yours could be fairly easily tweaked and then it could get community consensus to run on WikiProject backlog pages. Unfortunately, I don't have any programming skills, but I think it would be cool if I could write my own bots eventually. Biosthmors (talk) 04:02, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

I tired to introduce an optional subject based classification of backlogs, it was, however, scuppered by Wikilawyers, and to my shame, not particularly good ones. It would be relatively easy to set something up for WikiProject Medicine, if I could get User:FemtoBot allowed to operate then it could do that. Alternatively there may be another way to provide a solution, I'll think on it. Rich Farmbrough, 03:29, 1 January 2013 (UTC).
Thanks for thinking about this. We know at WP:MED we have a mess on our hands. And we know that this and this are horribly inadequate at describing that mess. I'm bet that if you have a good workable idea that I could drum up support for you at WP:MED/WT:MED to get it going. Biosthmors (talk) 21:01, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
Any ideas? Thanks again. Biosthmors (talk) 23:52, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Misplaced Pages:QWIKI-NOWIKI

Misplaced Pages:QWIKI-NOWIKI, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:QWIKI-NOWIKI and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Misplaced Pages:QWIKI-NOWIKI during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Keφr 17:37, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Clean start

Look at the contributions of He to Hecuba. I'd do that again. I have psychological issues with editing from an account I've fucked up with. --Claritas § 23:58, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Well then, it seems that ArbCom are not able to rule in this matter. It appears to me that you will be under the same sort of restriction under CLEANSTART, i.e. to avoid XfD (and any other problem areas) like the plague, as you are editing under Claritas. If you were to follow CLEANSTART, there are only four things that can happen:
  1. You go back to your conflicts and get outed, and sanctioned
  2. You go back to your conflicts and no-one notices (unlikely)
  3. You edit productively and no-one notices
  4. You edit productively and get outed nonetheless - there is then a fight over whether this is CLEANSTART or abusive socking - but if no abuse has taken place, it is hard to make the case for abusive socking.
If you are not concerned about being outed, I can see little downside in CLEANSTART. As Carrite mentions, though, you may wish to simply consider switching accounts, in a transparent way.
Rich Farmbrough, 19:52, 31 December 2012 (UTC).
Its truly unfortunate how the rules work with regard to clean start. Its a catch 22 if you ask me. If you tell someone then its not really a clean start, yet if you don't let someone know then its possible they'll come after you for socking. The rules are simply not very allowable to those who just want to start new and most editors aren't very good unfortunately at assuming good faith. The only way an editor can really have a clean start is by being somewhat good at deception. The other possibility is to go work on one of the sister projects for a while such as Simple, Wiktionary, WikiSpecies, etc. Kumioko (talk) 20:01, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
A good suggestion. I hope Claritas gets the new name they want, but if not that is another possibility. Rich Farmbrough, 05:07, 2 January 2013 (UTC).

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Scott Keadle

Since you approved it at AfC , you may want to comment. We don't have an established practice of notifying here, but I think we should. DGG ( talk ) 05:44, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 20:08, 2 January 2013 (UTC).

The Signpost: 31 December 2012

Your amendment request

Hi;

Might it not be easier if you consolidate all your likely amendment requests into one? That is, if you have anything else you'd like the committee to look at, ask now? It can then be dealt with either as an omnibus motion or as a series of motions.  Roger Davies 18:24, 2 January 2013 (UTC)


I don't know. While I respect that Arbitrators will not have the knowledge and memory of the case that I have (and I have forgotten most of it) so I do not take issue with those who are unsure of the meanings behind the wordings, and the processes that were followed, I would have thought this is a very simple amendment and I certainly did not expect to be on the receiving end of at least three ad hominem attacks from arbitrators over it. Given that it is unlikely that I can expect agreement over some of the more tricky matters, I would really have to evaluate whether it is worth while trying to demonstrate to the Committee that I am not, and never have been "gratuitously incivil" and that I was not an "unresponsive bot operator". And without achieving that certainly some of the more complex arguments, which will probably require empathy, analytic skills and unclouded judgement will be completely wasted.
By taking baby steps we can, I hope, eventually come to agreement on each point either that I need to repent and recant or whatever it is, or that the finding is wrong.
Even if I were convinced that the committee was receptive to an omnibus motion and that they would consider it on it's merits, rather than with a jaundiced view, which I have to say does not seem to be the universal case, there are still four problems.
  1. The work involved in putting it all together is huge. Arbs may complain about the time spent on this amendment, but it has cost me probably 75 hours so far. And this is possibly the second simplest to create (and the easiest to judge).
  2. The stress is also enormous, multiplying that up 10 fold is not an attractive proposition.
  3. An Omnibus motion will go off in all directions at once. While that is fine for normal Wiki discussions, in this case it will be difficult to contain and I will get hit with not having time to respond - just as happened in the original case.
  4. An Omnibus motion will attract more trolls.
Rich Farmbrough, 19:25, 2 January 2013 (UTC).
Thanks for the response. I see where you're coming from but I disagree with the approach. Just out of curiosity, how did it take you 75 hours to put the current amendment together?  Roger Davies 19:53, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
For what little my opinion on the matter is worth I agree with Rich, although I see your point also Roger. I think breaking it into pieces would be much more managable and practical. Creating a giant omnibus as you put it would just create another big drama fest and I agree with Rich that some members of Arbcom are going to be much less likely to accept a large change. Multiple smaller changes are much more likely to be fairly judged and considered. Kumioko (talk) 20:18, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Well I fear I was being over optimistic anyway. It will probably take me a couple of days to believe some of the responses. "The amendment request pretty clearly indicates that Rich has not taken on board the issues that brought him to arbitration in the first place" is this not the ultimate Catch 22? If you request an amendment you don't "deserve" it. On the plus side AGK has said there is a miscarriage of justice, and so with him on board, maybe something good will happen after all. Rich Farmbrough, 20:33, 2 January 2013 (UTC).
It didn't, that is a rough estimate of the total time spent on it. Actual drafting and pasting the right diffs and so forth, of the amendment as posted, my first save was at 22:51 on my local wiki, the final draft was posted at about 5:54, a relatively "mere" 7 hours. Add to that the investigation, deciding what action to take, technical work on the local wiki and so forth, together with the time spent since, 75 hours is a reasonable estimate. You could even say I have spent the last six months on it. Rich Farmbrough, 20:28, 2 January 2013 (UTC).

Barnstar

That's very sweet of you, Rich. What came across as cool was probably just trying to keep interventions short and get on with real life! Anyway, thanks and keep up the good work. Itsmejudith (talk) 09:04, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Template:Fair use logo listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Template:Fair use logo. Since you had some involvement with the Template:Fair use logo redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Sfan00 IMG (talk) 17:41, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Best wishes for the New Year!
Wishing you and yours a joyous, healthful, and productive 2013!

Please accept a belated thank you for the well wishes upon my retirement as FAC delegate this year, and apologies for the false alarm of my first—and hopefully last—retirement; the well wishes extended me were most kind, but I decided to return, re-committed, when another blocked sock was revealed as one of the factors aggravating the FA pages this year.

Maintaining standards in featured content requires vigilance, dedication and knowledge of people like you, who are needed; reviews are always welcome at FAC, FAR and TFA requests. Somehow, somehow we never ever seem to do nothin' completely nice and easy, but here's hoping that 2013 will see a peaceful road ahead and a return to the quality and comaraderie that defines the FA process, with the help of many dedicated Wikipedians!

SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:08, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

I have always viewed FA as a nice club that helps editors to improve articles, but not something that is of much interest to me - I want to see all articles improved. But you have made me more interested in the FA?GA processes, I will try to find some time to spend if/when I return to proper editing. Rich Farmbrough, 23:30, 3 January 2013 (UTC).

James Clemens

Thanks. That is what I wanted to do, but could not find out such a page (somehow I could not find "cwt" anywhere around...) - Nabla (talk) 10:30, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Arbitration motions

This is a courtesy notice to inform you that the Arbitration Committee has proposed, and is voting on, motions that would affect you. You may comment on these motions in your statement. For the Arbitration Committee Alexandr Dmitri (talk) 12:25, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Polandball

I like this one. Rich Farmbrough, 00:11, 5 January 2013 (UTC).

Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:QWIKI-NOWIKI

I've closed the discussion as userfy. The page has been moved to your userspace at User:Rich Farmbrough/QWIKI-NOWIKI. bibliomaniac15 22:02, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 02:20, 6 January 2013 (UTC).

Arbitration motion regarding Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Rich Farmbrough

Resolved by motion at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment that:

In the Rich Farmbrough case, the revised Finding of Fact 8, enacted on 28 May 2012 is vacated. Nothing in this decision constitutes an endorsement by the Committee of Rich Farmbrough's use of administrative tools to unblock his own accounts.

For the Arbitration Committee, (X! · talk)  · @114  ·  01:43, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Discuss this
Wooot! Party on my talk page! Rich Farmbrough, 02:04, 6 January 2013 (UTC).
Well that's a start right...I think? But unless I missed something, Arbcom took away your admin tools right, so how does this even apply? Isn't this sorta pointless? Kumioko (talk) 02:07, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
No not really. If I were to re-apply for admin tools, with a finding saying I abused them, it would be a very hard task. Also it shows that Arbcom can make the right decision, they are not totally immovable. Thirdly it removes an untruth about me, which is good. The amendment was draining, however. The next step (if I take it) will probably be much more so. We shall see. Rich Farmbrough, 02:12, 6 January 2013 (UTC).

Fur all teh epic lulz...

A reliable source for being 2th

might wanna see this. Buggie111 (talk) 02:00, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you teh lulz are always epic. Of course I am indeed 2th, so A7 does not apply. I guess BLP-prod next.. lets see. Rich Farmbrough, 02:06, 6 January 2013 (UTC).
Weh? Yu iz fur shizzilz? My bad, bro. Buggie111 (talk) 02:10, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes indeed, Justin was kind enough to mention my name in an interview I believe, so there is a RS somewhere. Back when I was 1th there were also a couple of articles, one by Richard Knight I think, and one in Britain's oldest newspaper. I also get a rather flattering mentch in A Misplaced Pages Readerin the article about bots. Rich Farmbrough, 02:17, 6 January 2013 (UTC).
Lol, and it's gone... Bbb23 who is extremely ubiquitous right now. Rich Farmbrough, 02:18, 6 January 2013 (UTC).
Searches related to Rich Farmbrough - how do i set up a wikipedia page - wikipedia bots - boni - you are now a google autocomplete after only "rich fa"! Surely that has to count for something :) --Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 02:21, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
Cool 7 characters of auto complete... one's Google number. Telegraph article where it is mentioned that I am 2th. Rich Farmbrough, 02:36, 6 January 2013 (UTC).

Oddly it was (as I predicted) BLP-prdded but still A7'd. (out of process) a minute later. Rich Farmbrough, 03:03, 6 January 2013 (UTC).

Please don't leave tests hanging around

If you need to test things outside of userspace or sandboxes, then at least remove the test again afterwards. Things like this shouldn't be left around. Fram (talk) 07:59, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  • No offence to you, Fram, but... I don't know how Rich feels about this, but your continued presence around his talk page could give the erroneous impression that your are continuing to hound him. -- Ohconfucius  08:44, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
    • I was checking empty maintenance categories to delete, like I have done often recently (e.g. yesterday as well), and noticed some strange things with one of them. Keeping quiet just because the editor that caused this was Rich Farmbrough doesn't seem helpful. You may note that I e.g. didn't comment on his Arbcom motion, despite his repeated incorrect statements about some of my actions there. Fram (talk) 10:30, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
Manifestly I am unable to look at this as viewing deleted pages is denied me (thanks Fram!), of course I used to delete test pages myself but that also is denied me (thanks Fram!), however without being able to look I would say that this would have had a speedy notice on it. Rich Farmbrough, 14:04, 8 January 2013 (UTC).
Having an automatically added delete tag is hardly a reason to leave things like {{Cleanup/sandbox|date=January 2013|reason=nfkjnr}} {{NAMESPACE}} in it, which added it to maintenance categories for no good reason at all. Your current lack of admin tools doesn't prevent an undo of your changes, does it? Fram (talk) 14:20, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
Oh well, if that's what you mean then you are certainly correct. I would have thought it is no big deal though. And at the risk of an arb case for "responding inappropriately" I might suggest that

Hi Rich, you left a sandboxed template in a cleanup category last night, thought you would like to know! Love from the land of Poirot.

would have been a better approach. Rich Farmbrough, 14:31, 8 January 2013 (UTC).
Spreading insincere love is not one of my habits. Fram (talk) 14:43, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
Well that part was a joke. But again I should have known better. Rich Farmbrough, 14:52, 8 January 2013 (UTC).
I'll try to use a more friendly tone next time I see something I think you should know. Of course, having negative comments by you about me at the top of this page hardly encourages me to do this, and finding that you felt the need to add some more here on 15 December doesn't make it any better. I can understand a wish to get things going again with a slightly more friendly and positive note, but leading by example would have perhaps been better than first posting a cynical "thanks Fram!" and then asking that I change my approach. Anyway, enough about that, like I said, if I do come across more things I believe should be noted here (whether positive, neutral, or negative in content), I'll try to bring it in a less negative register. Fram (talk) 15:13, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, at the very least it can no no harm. Rich Farmbrough, 19:15, 8 January 2013 (UTC).

Environmental impact of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill

Hi, Rich Farmbrough. Thank you for cleaning-up the Environmental impact of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill article. However, there is a related discussion if the Environmental impact of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill was split correctly from the Deepwater Horizon oil spill and if it should be merged back there. Relevant sections for this discussion are this and this. Your comments are appreciated. Thank you. Beagel (talk) 18:59, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 07 January 2013

--

Category:Project-Class Editor Retention articles

Category:Project-Class Editor Retention articles, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:52, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

For your list

Hello Rich Farmbrough, I have noticed your "Things that stayed too long" list on your user page, and thought you may like to add to it. However, it stayed on WP just five days, which may not be such a long time for inclusion in your list. Best, Toccata quarta (talk) 09:19, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, yes 5 days isn't so long (but still too long). A little amusing though. Rich Farmbrough, 00:51, 11 January 2013 (UTC).

Wikidata weekly summary #40

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week. Read the full report · Unsubscribe · Global message delivery 16:23, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Handbook of Texas bot

Hi Rich,

This slipped my mind - and maybe yours too. This Bot Request page also slipped off my Watchlist, so I forgot. You offered on here to take care of this if you could. I'm in no hurry. But if you know for sure you cannot do it, is there a way to pull this request out of the archives and put it back out there. I don't know what your permission status is on these things. Thanks for offering, whether you can do it or not. — Maile (talk) 14:21, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes I started on this Christmas morning when I was on Santa detail. Looks like it is actually a bigger job than I thought, some 1570 pages (I had assumed I think that "MM" was always the first part.) It's a two minute job with AWB or day or so by hand. I am "allowed" to request the ability to make automated edits from the day after tomorrow, however there seems to be an impasse which I need to get my head around. Rich Farmbrough, 21:13, 12 January 2013 (UTC).
Yeah, I was kind of surprised with your original estimate of 120 pages. I have no idea what it would really be, but the Texas project itself has almost 30,000 pages with the project banner. You must feel like you've had a foot holding your neck to the ground for the last few months. It's probably more notable who manages to get around having this happen to them. The longer I'm on planet Misplaced Pages, the more I'm amazed. — Maile (talk) 23:28, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Rich Farmbrough. You have new messages at John F. Lewis's talk page.
Message added 21:02, 12 January 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Confused too. Mind explaining as your message was sort of, out of the blue. John F. Lewis (talk) 21:02, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Saw your response, all is good. Rich Farmbrough, 21:13, 12 January 2013 (UTC).

--

A barnstar for you!

The Original Barnstar
Thanks for all your tireless work. Materialscientist (talk) 04:17, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
Well thank you! Rich Farmbrough, 04:19, 13 January 2013 (UTC).

A barnstar for you!

The Editor's Barnstar
Thanks so much for all the work you do Kipsizoo (talk) 11:15, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
I do what I can, thanks for the barnstar. Rich Farmbrough, 00:12, 17 January 2013 (UTC).

The Signpost: 14 January 2013

Edit that appears to be automated

Instead of immediately starting an WP:AE section, I thought it better to first get your input on some edits that concern me. Over the last few months, you have made many edits that appear to be at least partially automated, with e.g. whitespace removals all over articles, the replacement of all parameters in the persondata template (from uppercase to lowercase, something which was discussed a few times already and which I thought you had said you would stop doing), repeated exact same minor errors, and so on. None of these caused serious problems though, so I left it alone.

An edit from yesterday insert much more serious problems though, and the only expanation for these errors that I can reasonably think of is that you ran a script across a number of sources, and dumped the result in the article. While this is only one page, it is still using automated editing, and a return to the problems that caused the restriction in the first place.

  • The entries for Assam are completely wrong, probably because the pdf used () starts at 1, goes to 24, and then starts again at 1 (which are details of number 24), to continue after 96 again with 25. A human wouldn't have much problems with this, but a script or bot can't handle this and creates lists like the one we have gotten here.
  • The entries for Chattisgarh are botched at entry 26, which has a subset in the original pdf , which causes the script to go all haywire here.

Less serious contentwise, but typical of the use (and lack of control) of a script are the following issues:

  • When there are multiple entries (column one) or multiple designations (column three), a "return" is only addad after the first one, not noticing that more than two entries are possible. See e.g. Andra Pradesh 1 or 26 for examples of the first, and Andra Pradesh 15, 23 or 26 for examples of the second (layout problem)
  • Strange entries in column 2. See e.g. the first entry for Assam (with the thrice repeated " ,,,"Andhra Pradesh "), or the wrong ordering of Bihar, where 124 b and 124 a are placed before 1 - 2 - 3..., or the first entry for Chattisgarh; again something a script botches but a human hasn't any problem with.

I have stopped checking in detail after Chattisgarh, skimming the rest of the very long page seems to show similar errors all the way down.

Basically, it looks as if by using a script to generate this long page, you produced something that at first glance seems a nice piece of work, but that on closer inspection is seriously deficient, with a whole lot of entries simply missing and a lot of other, smaller errors. I'ld be glad to hear another explanation for this, which would save us the hassle of another acrimnious AE debate. Like I said, I don't see what that explanation could be, but I have been proven wrong before... Fram (talk) 15:52, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

  • The problem with the tea workers is one I thought I had dealt with when creating the entries. The order within state is more-or-less arbitrary, I considered a column for entry number, but this is actually very minor (I could have used page number, possibly to better effect). I was also thinking when I created this part of the table that we might want to break it down even further by caste name, but the quality of the data does not seem to be good enough to justify doing that.
  • Again the Chattisgarh problem is a result of separating out Islamic castes in the source, and not knowing til I go to the end the exact layout I was going to use.
Obviously I have been limited in the tools I can use over the last month, working on this table, and reluctant to post my results. However there comes a point where the list is better where other people can see it than sitting on my infrastructure.
Most of these problems are due to sorting the table, which was necessary because the data was loaded by hand. An automated load would of course have not needed a sort.
And of course sorting is automation, but anyone who thinks that sorting 2,500 entries by hand is a 21st century option probably still uses file cards.
As to the carriage returns, it would be easy enough to put them in automatically, however for the names in particular the sources layout is relevant, distinguishing in some cases between synonyms and different castes. Were we to break down the names to one per line, we might as well follow the plan of one table entry per name. But this is a bad idea, because the exact disposition of qualifications such as "excluding those who have converted to Christianity" would then need to be resolved. However if the article regulars think this is useful I'm sure it could be accomplished.
In summary thanks for pointing out the limitations and errors, as I remarked on the talk page this is very much a "first cut" and subject to improvement. I will address the issues you raise and I'm sure there are more which the article regulars will bring to light, or I will find myself. This is however an important list, and it needs to be present and being worked on.
All the best. Rich Farmbrough, 17:18, 17 January 2013 (UTC).
So by doing it by hand, you have produced errors which appear to be only possible when this had been created by some script or similar automated tool? And you get the same errors with every individual source you use? I think this'll have to go to WP:AE, as nothing you claim here is in the least convincing (and you are incorrect as well, in cases where the source has multiple lines, you always reduce them to two lines, one for the first entry and one for all the others; you claim that for this "the sources layout is relevant", but you don't follow that layout but impose and arbitrary (or, more realistically, badly coded) one.Fram (talk) 08:05, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
I think you are missing the fact that mediawiki tables respect the first line break, but the rest of the text is treated as standard wiktext, therefore single line breaks are treated the same way as spaces. I would be interested in where you still see the two-line scenario you discuss, as I spent over two hours yesterday resolving these issues. Rich Farmbrough, 08:11, 18 January 2013 (UTC).
I am not discussing the cleanup you did after I found the problems and raised the issue here. I am discussing your initial edit only. I have raised the issue at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Rich Farmbrough. Fram (talk) 08:31, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
I would note that there is absolutely no way Fram could have found this list without going through Rich's edits looking for something. Its obvious that Fram is just trying to look for things to get Rich banned from the project so I have commented as such in the enforcement. This is the conduct I have come to expect from many in the community these days though. Kumioko (talk) 12:15, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
He has already admitted a much, several times. After all if Fram doesn't control me looks like no one else will, right? Rich Farmbrough, 12:22, 18 January 2013 (UTC).
I continue to be hopeful that at some point the Arbcom will think for a few seconds on why it always seems to be the same 2 charachters submitting claims against you. Unfortunately I don't have much faith in the committee after the last couple years. Maybe the new one will change my mind but being that all of the people on the committee where already part of it to some degree either as a member or a clerk, I don't have much faith that they will look at this for what it is, a joke. I cannot believe that someone other than me hasn't noticed that CBM and Fram always seem to be the ones submitting these cases, not just on you, but in general. Fram has spent more time at Arbcom than some of the members. I cannot say how disgusted I am with the pedia, the Arbcom and the culture that we are fostering in this place these days. Its becoming more and more like the American Congress. MOre politcs, more beauracracy, more fingerpointing and less work. I don't know how much longer I can continue editing here. The entire community should be ashamed. Kumioko (talk) 16:54, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, I have submitted cases on one editor only, Rich Farmbrough, and have participated in only one other case, Betacommand (and even then not in all incarnations of that case). I may be forgetting something here, but it looks to me as if you are (again) imagining things here. I don't care that your opinion of me is quite low, but that doesn't mean that you should just start making things up, like you seem to do time and again when you are discussing me. Remember my supposed involvement with the US roads project? Fram (talk) 20:34, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

AE clerking

You did the right thing by not moving Fram's comment to their section. Uninvolved admins clerking a case is one thing, but you were correct in thinking that you placing that in their section might have been construed as you editing someone else's section, the very error Fram made. Good call on that one. I post this here rather than the case to avoid going off on side topics there. KillerChihuahua 13:31, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, this stuff does tend to get dragged into the mix. I commented point by point inside someone's comment on AN/I once (a common method of reply in the old days) and got accused of vandalism and edit warring. Rich Farmbrough, 19:21, 18 January 2013 (UTC).

Wikidata weekly summary #41

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week. Read the full report · Unsubscribe · Global message delivery 15:54, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Good luck

Well I wanted to be the first one to wish you good luck. I have done everything I can to stop this stupidity but unfortunately they keep letting Fram do whatever he wants. I expect to be blocked myself soon because I told what I thought of him on the discussion so I think its only a matter of time before someone blocks me for personal attacks. Of course they'll leave him be to continue his crusade against some other editor. Kumioko (talk) 00:52, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

January 2013

To enforce an arbitration decision, you have been blocked from editing for a period of 2 months for violating the restriction requiring you to edit Misplaced Pages only completely manually – that is, by typing text into the edit window – as explained and agreed to by you here. Please refer to the enforcement request for further details.. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, please read the guide to appealing arbitration enforcement blocks and follow the instructions there to appeal your block.  Sandstein  21:42, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Notice to administrators: In a March 2010 decision, the Committee held that "Administrators are prohibited from reversing or overturning (explicitly or in substance) any action taken by another administrator pursuant to the terms of an active arbitration remedy, and explicitly noted as being taken to enforce said remedy, except: (a) with the written authorization of the Committee, or (b) following a clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors at a community discussion noticeboard (such as WP:AN or WP:ANI). If consensus in such discussions is hard to judge or unclear, the parties should submit a request for clarification on the proper page. Any administrator that overturns an enforcement action outside of these circumstances shall be subject to appropriate sanctions, up to and including desysopping, at the discretion of the Committee."

And who does that help? Rich Farmbrough, 22:14, 19 January 2013 (UTC).