Talk:Khatri - Misplaced Pages

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De frequent vandals ISKapoor and Vikramsingh should stop vanalizing this page. I already contacted Jimmy Wales to have them permanently banned.

Khatris are found outside state of punjab too and out of India too. Punjabi Khatris are a sub-class of Khatris.

Mohitkhullar

Lighten up, Mohit. They are only trying to be helpful. What's your beef ? I don't see any vandalizing on their part.

A lot of earlier discussions can be found at Talk:Punjabi_Khatri

Earlier editing history may be see at Punjabi_Khatri, the text from there was moved here based on suggestions.

--Vikramsingh 17:05, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Articles on Haqiqat Rai and Hari Singh Nalwa have been created. Kindly visit and refine/add if appropriate.

--Vikramsingh 17:05, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

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No caste promotion

The wikipedia is not vehicle for caste wars. Don't mention Kshatriya or Vaishiya or whatever in this article, as it will be immediately removed. Onestone

I suggest people insisting on making modifications to share their views here. - Why are their views justified? - Why should others agree with you?

Going back and forth with modifications does not help.

Incidentally, the article has starting to look great, with valuable information.

--ISKapoor 00:27, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Baku Fire-temple

Question - What is the evidence of the Fire Temple at Baku, Azerbaijan being supported by Khatris, as stated in the introduction to this article? I was always under the impression it was a Zoroastrian relic, left over from the days when the fire worshipping Zoroasterians dominated Persia (and Azerbaijan was definitely under Persian influence). Methinks that particular contention is dubious.

3/26/2006 - Thanks to Vikram for removing the above contested statement from the text.

- 66.155.238.2

I did not remove the text. It was removed by vandals. The text appears below.

"Khatris are among the most visible communities in India. Their entreprenuership is well-known. The Khatri traders have historically participated in trade well beyond India's borders, from Burma to Russia. At one time, the Khatris controlled a significant share of the trade in the central asian region. The Hindu fire-temple of Baku, Azerbaijan, supported for centuries by Khatri merchants flourished until the middle of 19th century. The Hindu temples of Kabul built by the Khatris still exist."

It is ***absolutely true*** that the Baku temple was built by traders from Punjab and Sindh. The temple has inscriptions in Nagari and Gurmukhi.

I call upon volunteers to expand the article on Baku temple and create an article on Hindu temples of Kabul.

--Vikramsingh 22:11, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

3/27/2006 Vikram - Upon further investigation through a Google search (Use "Baku Hindu Fire Temple"), you are very correct in asserting that there was a Hindu (not Zoroastrian) Fire Temple in Baku till the 19th century. Mea culpa, that claim should remain. Now only if we could stop this vandalism at this site.

Vandalism by Berkeley Dumra person at 69.167.22.161

This person has been vandalizing the Punjabi Khatri and Khatri article for a long time.

His point of view is that:

"The Kshatriya were created from the arms of God. As members of the Hindu military order, they alone are entrusted with the right to rule."

He also keep removing links to articles on

Raja Todar Mal
Haqiqat Rai
Hari Singh Nalwa
Sawan Mal

which are some of the greatest names in Khatri history.

Complaints about his earlier vandalism can be seen at

http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Punjabi_Khatri

To Vikramsingh and Cardreader from 69.167.22.161

How is the contention that Kshatriya were created from the arms of God false? It is written very clearly and explicitly in the Manu Smriti, the foundatioanl work of Hindu Law. I don't see what the problem is here.

Dumraji,

It is stated in the Purusha Sukta in Rigveda

मुखं किमस्य कौ बाहू का ऊरू पादा उच्येते ॥ ब्राह्मणो अस्य मुखमासीद बाहू राजन्यः कर्तः । ऊरूतदस्य यद वैश्यः पद्भ्यां शूद्रो अजायत ॥

The rigveda is mystical and symbolic. It should not be taken as a historical statement.

You have also been saying that "only Kshatriyas have the right to rule". While historically the Khatris are Ksatriyas, although perhaps not the only ones, they do not claim the exclusive right to rule India, although India's current PM happens to be one. The Khatris today support democracy. That does not take away the contributions of current and past Khatri warriors.

Khatris have a distinguished background of real contributions. They do not need to claim to be superior to others just based on the birth.

--Vikramsingh 18:50, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

vandalism by SanjayMohan

You can seen some examples of the text he has been inserting at

http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Punjabi_Khatri

I regret that there are people with so much hate.

--Vikramsingh 22:21, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism by Moderator3000

Another one of the persistant vandals.

This is his point of view:

"The Khatris (From Sanskrit kshatri a class of intermixtures) are an community of traders, who according to the Manu SMirti are very low caste but according to public opininion now have the Vaishiya status. Thgey tend to claim warrior status, but this usually laughed at by other Indians. "

He also likes to delete the sections on

Khatris and Vedas
Mention of Vichitra Natak" of Guru Gobind Singh
Khatris and Sun Worship

Sad.

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Let us make sure that the vandals are not successful. --Vikramsingh 22:20, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

On the status of the Khatri article

The Khatri article has made good progress. It now provides good, unbiased information on the Khatris, their background and their contributions. There are now a few related articles also.

I want to thank all the contributors to the article. I have also made some contributions to the Khatri and several other related articles.

I hope we will keep enhancing this and other related article.

Unfortunately the article has been subject to a lot of vandalism. I hope that will cease soon. In the meantime, I urge you all to watch over the article.

Threat from 69.167.22.161 to continue vandalism

69.167.22.161 (same person vandalizes from 169.229.83.204) has left a threat on my talk page:

'I have been editing this page for years now, since its very beginning. You are not going to stop me. I have dealt with many like you.'

I request 69.167.22.161 to respect the views of the contributors to the Khatri article.

Misplaced Pages is not a place to insist on a personal point of view. I request you to not delete links to hisorical Khatris who have contributed so much.

--Cardreader 17:23, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

4/4/2006 - Welcome to the club! This bully has been sending out threatening messages to other interactors also. As they say, don't get into a fight with a pig. Both of you get dirty, and the pig actually enjoys being dirty.

Why background (Vedas, Ashtadhyayi etc) needs to be mentioned

Today many people consider Punjab as a region with very little connection of the Indian civilization and Hinduism. Majority of Pakistanis are Punjabi, and they are Muslim. In India many equate Punjabi with Sikh.

For people to know the background of the Khatri community, people must know the background. The Khatris need to bring out the history of Punjab, so that they will be correctly viewed as people with a background in classical India.

Panini's Ashtadhyayi is studied by scholars around the world, from Japan to USA. This classic does not belong to a specific region or even a country, it belongs to humanity. But Khatris and Punjabis must point out that it is in Punjab where Panini studied and taught and where he composed his Sanskrit grammar. This was the region where Sanskrit-based learning flourished and people from distant lands came to study at Takshashila. The Khatris have a close connection with study of vedas. That needs to be explained by providing a context.

I have started an article Hinduism in Punjab which will eventually present many of these things in detail. I request those knowledgable about classical and modern history of Hinduism in Punjab to contribute or give suggestions.

I would not want to claim what is not true. However one should not hesitate in stating well-known and well-researched facts.

--Vikramsingh 19:41, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Why what Vikramsingh said makes no sense

I am Punjabi. I am a Khatri.

I understand that Hindus in Punjab need to be recognized. But, putting unverified information on this page is not the way to do it. I asked you to show me proof that the Vedas were composed in Punjab. You did not do so. The fact is that the regional origin of the Vedas is unknown. Scholars and explorers are still trying to find out the answer.

Your response above does not provide any evidence as to the origin of Vedas, it simply gives a reason why we should post that the Vedas were written in Punjab.

--Bharatiya

Response to Bharatiya

Dear Bharatiyaji,

What is your view on where Vedas, Mahabharata and the Ashtadhyayi were composed? Can you briefly mention your views and if possible give us some references, so that we can examine them?

It is the view of the prominent scholars that these were indeed composed in the Punjab region. When I say 'Punjab region' I don't necessarily mean the Indian state of Punjab, which is just a small part of former Punjab.

Internal evidence from these books leads us to the same conclusion that they they were indeed composed in this region.

The article Hinduism in Punjab is still evolving. However you can see a hint of the historical information that is avaialble to us.

Let us work together to make these article more informative to all.

Please do let us know in some detail of what you are looking for, and what perceptions we need to address.

Yours --Vikramsingh 00:01, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

List of Distinguished Khatris is Not a Genealogical Tree

One interactor (apparently a descendant of Diwan Mul Raj) is treating the list of distinguished Khatris as a repository of Mul Raj's ancestors and descendants. The contributions of Diwan Sawan Mal and Diwan Mul Raj have already been alluded to in the introduction to this article. That particular list, hopefully, does not become a vault acting as a repository for the genealogical tree of the Chopra clan associated with Diwan Mul Raj. Noble birth does not earn one an automatic berth on this list. Give us some reasons as to why they should be included. And please, no astrologers and like minded charlatans in the list.

Add 128.91.104.103 to the List of Vandals

Previously it was the interactor at 69.167.22.161 (and his various incarnations as Dumra, Bhartiya etc.) who was most active in vandalizing this article. Now it appears he has a comrade in arms in 128.91.104.103, who has taken it upon himself to delete the section on Muslim Khatris. He even deleted the reference to Abul Fazl, whose work is a repository of Khatri background. Apparently an MBA education has definitely not led to tolerance. Sad to see highly educated people so parochial.

Revert warring and vandalization

This is being done by nefarious elements whose only aim is to spread heinous propaganda against anything Indian/Hindu. It is high-time, this is brought to the notice fo the moderators and these unscruplous elements banned from the forum.

Are you guys sure Walias are khatris?

I know I made an edit about Walia also being called Ahluwalias. This is because I am one myself but noone is really sure in my family and relations whether we are Khatris or a groop such as Sonis and Aroras. Also if if we have mentioned Walias then why don't we have Monetek Singh Ahluwalia in the list of known personalities?

-- Unitedroad 5:05 pm 9th September 2006 (IST)

The 'Ahluwalias' are not Khatris. As far as I know, they form a separate caste known as Kalals, who traditionally were wine distillers (I have read this on Misplaced Pages itself)in old Punjab. The most famous Kalal to date is Sardar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia, Misldar of the Ahluwalia Misl, one of the 11 Sikh Misls. According to what I have read, Jassa Singh was called Ahluwalia because he was born as a Walia in the village of 'Ahl'. Hence, I agree that there is some doubt as to whether Walias can be called Khatris. I would invite more deliberation on this issue

Rajat Ghai

Sad state of affairs

Have been noticing the constant 'warfare' on this page for the past six months. Really saddens me. Being an Arora-Khatri myself, some of the vitriol belted out by Rajputs here is indigestable. I don't know whether the Khatris/Aroras/Bhatias/Soods should be classified as Kshatriya warriors or Vaishya traders. All I know is that these four castes have contributed extensively and immensely to ancient and modern Punjab, India and Pakistan. And no Rajput can deny them that.

Another thing .It is only when some vain, supposedly 'higher' person(read Mr. Rajesh Chauhan) is trying "to show me my place in the Varna System" that I realise what the Dalits must have felt over millenia about the atrocities they were subjected to by the "Higher Castes". The ugliness of the Caste System has been brought home to me by this article, to which I thought I was immune.

I, who was staunchly against reservations for OBCs, am now in full favour of it