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• Iraqi insurgency (post-U.S. withdrawal):
  • A wave of violence continues, with attacks across the country killing 133 and leaving 283 others injured. Almost 400 people have been killed in the last six days alone, as tribal leaders warn of impending civil war. (BBC) (Antiwar.com via AP)
• Insurgency in the North Caucasus:
  • Twin car bombs explode in Makhachkala, capital of the Russian republic of Dagestan, killing 4 and injuring almost 50 others. Hours later authorities announced they have foiled a terror attack in Moscow.(Reuters)
• North Korea launches short-ranged projectiles off its coast for the third day in a row. (The New York Times)

• A massive two mile wide tornado strikes south of the US city of Oklahoma City, causing widespread damage and causing the National Weather Service to issue a rare tornado emergency. 24 people are killed. (MSN) (NPR)(NBC News), (ABC News)
• A 6.5 magnitude earthquake strikes off the coast of Chile. (Christian Science Monitor)
• A morning peak Tranz Metro commuter train derails near central Wellington, New Zealand, after part of the undercarriage comes loose and punctures the carriage floor, injuring four people and delaying tens of thousands of commuters as services are cancelled. (Fairfax NZ)
• A hot air balloon crashes in Cappadocia, Turkey, killing 2 tourists and injuring another 20. (BBC)
• The BBC documentary series Panorama airs unseen footage from the 1989 Hillsborough disaster that casts doubt on medical evidence given at the inquest. (BBC)

• North Korea confirms a bird flu outbreak that has forced authorities to kill over 160,000 ducks in Pyongyang. (Yonhap News Agency)

• The President of Myanmar Thein Sein visits the White House as part of his visit to the United States, the first by a Burmese head of state in 47 years. (Reuters)

• Guatemala's Constitutional Court overturns a genocide conviction against former dictator Efraín Ríos Montt due to a dispute over jurisdiction. (The Guardian)
• Immigrant youths riot in Stockholm suburb Husby, burning more than 100 vehicles. (Washington Post)

• The Church of Scotland's General Assembly votes to allow openly gay men and women to become ministers. (BBC)

• Paralympian Oscar Pistorius' agent confirms that he will not take part in any sports this year as he awaits his trial for murder. (BBC Sports), (Sky News)

World Table Tennis Championships

• Nominated by LukeSurl (talk · give credit)

• Comment you don't me to tell you the article needs several lines of prose and more references before this crowd will even consider it. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
• I guess I won't tell The Rambling Man ;), but to everyone else the article clearly is not ready for posting since it is almost entirely tables. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:14, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Heh. One issue is that there seems to be very few sources even interested in this. This is ITN/R (at the moment) but with few sources, I'm not sure how successful an update will be. Still, if it's hanging around tomorrow night, I'll give it a go. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:16, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

RD Ray Manzarek

• Nominated by Jusdafax (talk · give credit)

• Support Pretty big name in music. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:50, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
• Not Updated would like to see sources/reaction--assume I can support this, but not yet. μηδείς (talk) 00:51, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I have added a quote from the CEO of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It may be helpful to note that Manzarek played bass keyboards (allowing the Doors to perform without a bass payer) along with the normal keys, so in effect he had twice the impact of a normal band member. Jusdafax 01:25, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support (edit conflict) I've never heard of him myself, but many people seem to have, and his death is popping up everywhere, at least here in the US.  — TORTOISEWRATH 01:28, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support A key member of a very influential band and his death has been getting a lot of coverage. He's also considered one of the best rock keyboardists, which adds to his notability. -- Scorpion 01:49, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

People around the world are familiar with the opening of Light my Fire. Jusdafax 01:53, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

• Posted --Jayron32 04:13, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Rios Montt's conviction overturned

• Nominated by Carlossuarez46 (talk · give credit)

• Oppose Per the ref in the article , the conviction was overturned, but "reset" back a month and sent back to the lower court. If he was permanently cleared of charges, I'd say it's notable, but this is just an interim legal step in the ongoing case. Wait until a final verdict is reached. – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 04:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

• We posted the conviction; now we must report that our prior report was premature - the essence of WP:BLP and good journalistic standards. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 04:24, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

• Our report was not premature; the court's conviction was premature. Simply stating that the conviction was "overturned" does not explain the situation very well, due to the "reset" order from the Constitutional Court; I updated the article to reflect that. At the very least, the blurb needs to reflect the court's order better. (There also may be more info in the next few days, since apparently the issue over recusal of judges was ordered to be handled within 24 hours, but nobody seems to know how that's going to be done.) – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 04:33, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

• The conviction which was reported in our ITN is now known to be non-existent. What happens next is anyone's guess; but the removal of the conviction that has been announced is news. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 04:52, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

2013 Oklahoma City tornado

• Nominated by Muboshgu (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Dmarquard (talk · give credit) and Cyclonebiskit (talk · give credit)

• Support. This is clearly going to be a major story, as the devastation is significant. CNN says the tornado was reported as two miles wide. 331dot (talk) 22:37, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support per 331dot on being a major disaster. Article is in good shape too even with today's developing storms. --MASEM (t) 22:54, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Wait, please. As of now we have absolutely no idea what kind of effect this has had aside from the visuals. Once we get a sense of just how much damage was caused and how many were hurt, we'd be better poised to form consensus. _EricLeb (Page | Talk) 22:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

It's already quite clear that most the town of Moore, OK was pretty much wiped out. Based on the visuals we don't need an exact casualty count here. 331dot (talk) 23:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

We thought that as well when the explosion at the West Fertilizer Company explosion happened, but it turned out to be much less catastrophic than it seemed. Hence why I urged not to jump too quickly on this (which we didn't!) _EricLeb (Page | Talk) 01:04, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support when updated Significant tornado, massive damage and several casualties already reported. Media worldwide are covering this as a headline story. Blurb needs to be updated to point to 2013 Moore tornado, and note > 200mph winds, not that it was traveling at 200mph. (Current initial information seems somewhat incomplete, but I imagine the full extent will become more clear soon enough.) – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 22:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Do we really need a separate article on the one storm out of several? The overall disaster relief will be the same as the rest of the state that's been affected. --MASEM (t) 23:04, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
    • This is probably addressed better on the articles' talk pages themselves, since this probably isn't the best place for a merge discussion; but in any case, the specific Moore tornado does seem notable in its own right from the news coverage being given to it. – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 23:08, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support Six confirmed dead per CNN and based on the devastation, that number will more than likely rise in the coming days. Absolutely worthy of being on ITN.--Giants27(T|C) 23:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support One of the largest tornadoes ever. --SubSeven (talk) 23:03, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict × 3)Support. This is definitely something that we should post (wow 2 miles wide and "the worst ... in the history of the world"), but only after we have a rough idea about fatalities/damage. Mohamed CJ (talk) 23:05, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

• Question has the NWS published coordinates? It would be nice to add before posting. --IP98 (talk) 23:06, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support with a revision of the blurb. The tornado wasn't moving at 200 mph, it had winds up to 200 mph. And that's still preliminary. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 23:09, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• (edit conflict) Oppose current blurb: It makes it sound like the tornado had a ground-track speed of 200 mph. Titoxd 23:10, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

• Tornadoes are not my forte. Any blurb rewrites would be appreciated. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

• Your updated blurb seems better, but needs to note Moore, Oklahoma, and point to 2013 Moore tornado. Maybe stick "catastrophic" at the beginning, and initial information on casualties at the end (though it's really too early to know the true extent of casualties.) – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 23:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

• I'd avoid an adjective here (at least for ITN posting) unless it's a word that comes down from something like the NWS. On the other hand, saying it was an estimated "EF4" tornado with wind speeds exceeding 200 mph is sufficient qualify to stress the strength of this storm. --MASEM (t) 23:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

• You're right, that's probably overly sensationalistic. The technical description is more than adequate. I edited the location as the original article moved (not sure that's correct procedure as non-nominator, but it was pointing to a redirect.) – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 00:11, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support. Picture forthcoming. Ks0stm 23:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support. KFOR-TV in Oklahoma City is reporting at least 20 fatalities in an elementary school in Moore. Meteorologists believe it may have been an EF-5 tornado (the highest category of tornado). This is obviously a major disaster, as bad as the May 3, 1999 tornado, if not worse. —Scott5114↗ 23:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support; very significant disaster. (Of course, it's a bit US-centric: do we post Thai disasters with 20 fatalities?) -- Ypnypn (talk) 00:12, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Death toll here will likely exceed 100 (37 already reported and it is very early), and yes if someone nominated a Thai disaster with 20 deaths it would probably be posted. I can't recall the last time a proposed natural disaster was rejected. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:24, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
    • 37 confirmed dead per FOX . μηδείς (talk) 00:35, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
• Blurb I suggest we focus on Moore, something concise, like "A possible F-5 tornado in Moore, Oklahoma kills dozens". μηδείς (talk) 00:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Marked ready, Moore Tornado article is updated and no opposition> μηδείς (talk) 00:33, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support - Heavily in the news, no doubt. Lean towards shorter blurb. Jusdafax 00:40, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
• Posted with a simple blurb, similar to the usual ITN formatting. Suggestions for improvement of the blurb can continue. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:44, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

May 19

Yahoo to acquire Tumblr

• Nominated by ThaddeusB (talk · give credit)

• Withholding support pending update. The story's being well covered in many news sources, but I need to know what text we're putting on the main page before I give my full support. --Jayron32 05:28, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Weak Oppose - Tumblr while a major microblogging site is not a major brand-name player on the Internet (and arguably, Yahoo, nowadays) If it was like Yahoo buying Facebook, that would be one thing. This is the right point for an ITN, but I don't think this news qualifies as ITN per past discussion on business matters. --MASEM (t) 05:31, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
  • I think we need to adjust our standards. Billion dollar deals are very rare, much more rare than say a natural disaster than kills 20 people. --ThaddeusB (talk) 05:52, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
    • Can you quantify how rare? I oppose this for now, but if shown that this is indeed very rare, I'd probably feel differently. I'm not sure how often $1B+ deals do occur. – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 06:06, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
      • About one/month on average, but its been several months since the last one, based only on my experience. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:11, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose (for now) Wait for an official announcement. Yahoo!/Tumblr haven't announced anything yet, the news reports so far are only based on sources close to the board. Also change "microblogger" to "microblogging platform" or "microblogging service". Kollision (talk) 06:04, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose without further evidence of notability. Need evidence that this is more than a routine business deal; while these are major names online, and there is significant news coverage, I'm not convinced that such coverage meets notability guidelines. For example, random Facebook changes are covered in the media as heavily as things like this deal, simply because they're part of the social media sphere that affects the portion of the world that participates in such, and thus drives media coverage. – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 06:06, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• If I recall correctly, we didn't post the (ultimately failed?) Dell leveraged buyout announcement, or Facebook buying Instagram. At least I hope we didn't for either. Or the American Airlines / US Airways merger, which was 10x bigger than this one. Businesses make strategic decisions all the time. I don't see a reason to post this one on ITN especially. Oppose. NW (Talk) 06:07, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Weak oppose - There have been bigger acquisitions than this (Skype's US$6.3 billion purchase by Microsoft comes to mind) and Tumblr isn't a really big player as far as Internet companies go. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 06:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose since it's not a done deal, but only intention for acquiring. I'd support it when the deal is over and the acquisition takes place for sure. This is obviously the first phase in the acquisition process, and it's too early to support something which is not probable to occur. The second phase, in which the acquisition would be announced, and the last phase, when it actually takes place, are worth enough for supporting.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:49, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose - I'm not sure Tumblr is as significant as all that, and this is - as Kiril observes - not a done deal. AlexTiefling (talk) 11:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Wait for announcement The Tumblr article says that "they're in talks", but I might support when they announce an agreement. We really missed the boat with the AA/CACTUS merger. It was approved on March 27 by some stuffy judge with very little fanfare (didn't even make it to the current events portal). It seems with business news, the announcement is the big story, and only if regulators shoot it down do you hear about it again. --IP98 (talk) 11:51, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
  • The deal was officially announced today. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:11, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
    • Changing to neutral. The AA/CACTUS buyout had obvious results: a new gigantic airline and an end to AA's financial woes. The implications for this are less clear. It's more a case of Yahoo adding to it's portfolio of internet properties. The update doesn't do enough to satisfy this. With the acquisition, how does this position Yahoo vs it's competitors? --IP98 (talk) 17:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support - Interesting tech internet story. Been in the news for days, and of international significance, so it makes a good ITN blurb. Jusdafax 04:27, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose I don't remember us posting Facebook's billion dollar acquisition of Instagram (and that was when both were highly fashionable....) and I don't see a good reason to post this, big tech company acquires smaller tech company for ridiculous sum, all too common. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:12, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Syria

• Nominated by Lihaas (talk · give credit)

• Oppose Thank god the other side is finally fighting back is not a valid rationale--there may be others, but they haven't been given. μηδείς (talk) 19:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Comment. If they take the town, that might in principle be postable. But, as things stand, the nomination amounts to "did you know there is a war going on in Syria?". Formerip (talk) 19:54, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Sticky?Lihaas (talk) 20:00, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. What sources are there for this? Like Medeis I'm not really seeing a reason to post. 331dot (talk) 20:00, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Lihaas (talk) 20:03, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• Update the article, and I will consider the nomination :). Thue (talk) 20:06, 19 May 2013 (UTC) Edit: Support now, seems to be significant and widely covered in the media. Thue (talk) 18:58, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Key capture imminent. NYT: "The fight is viewed by both loyalists and government opponents as a turning point that could, in the words of one activist in Qusayr, “decide the fate of the regime and the revolution.” “It is one of the hardest days all over Syria,” said Tarek, the activist, who would give only his first name because of security concerns. “If Qusayr is finished, it will be the end of the revolution in Homs.”...Syrian rebels have shelled Hezbollah-controlled areas. On Sunday, they hit the Lebanese town of Hermel with Grad missiles

Int'l media affirming a Syrian army victoryLihaas (talk) 20:39, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Actually that's the intl media affirming that the Syrian army is affirming a Syrian army victory. Like I said, though, that would be ITN-able if confirmed, IMO. Formerip (talk) 22:55, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

This was a major victory: Iranian arms for Hizballah can now go through from Syria to destination unobstructed. In more than two years of battling the Assad regime, this was one of the rebels’ most devastating losses after three weeks of bitter fighting and the last of a whole row of recent setbacks.Lihaas (talk) 23:26, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• It might make sense to have a discussion of stickies for Syria and Iraq on the talk page, given there's so much going on on a regular basis. The problem is, of course that we can't predict what will happen. A North Korea sticky based on news from February would have sat stale for quite a bit. I am not sure that anyone actually comes to wikipedia for such geopolitical topics. (May 2013 Iraq attacks got 1898 views yesterday under its original title) I think it's much more likely we get readers for notable recent deaths and topics like coronations which deal with singular personalities and unique events. (Joyce Brothers, a recent nomination, got over 100,000 views without being posted.) I suspect we need to focus more on our readers, and less on what "should" be notable. μηδείς (talk) 00:33, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Iraq was only up a small % of its first day. It got 14092+1837 views on its first full day. That's still a below average # for ITN, though. --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:53, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
    • I suspected that would be the case given the name was changed, so, in good faith, I mentioned it. The point is still illustrated. And frankly, I do support a sticky. μηδείς (talk) 03:08, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose (for now.) This is too vague. What is the scope of the counter-attack? Why is it notable? The blurb and article do not explain this, thus it seems far too vague for ITN. – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 04:42, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Extending Hezbollah (and thus regional) involvement. [http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/syria-turning-point-battle-qusayr Battle of al-Qusayr?

more risk

Added a new links to the battle article. While there is a tag there it is mostly for the 2012 article.Lihaas (talk) 14:16, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Weak support after updates; relevance of the counter-offensive is explained more clearly now, but the significance in the overall conflict could be expanded on. Needs some further copyediting. – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 17:08, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support-Now with new article. QatarStarsLeague (talk) 17:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Comment - No doubt that this topic is ITN-worthy for a blurb. I do however notice the new article is a section of an article with an "unbalanced" tag at the top. That has to be fixed before we go to the Main page with this. Jusdafax 19:08, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

*Oppose unless the blurb is linked to the 2013 battle article:Al-Qusayr Offensive. Putting two different battles into one article (as is currently done for Battle of Al-Qusayr) makes no sense and is WP:CONTENTFORKING.--FutureTrillionaire (talk) 17:35, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I went ahead and fixed this.--FutureTrillionaire (talk) 17:48, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

• Wait - The city is of highly strategic importance. If government forces do take it, then I would support posting that event.--FutureTrillionaire (talk) 17:50, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Nigeria

• Updated and nominated by Lihaas (talk · give credit)

• Support Just from reading the Misplaced Pages article, seems like an extraordinary confrontation. The Boko Haram grouping is mentioned in my lokal news fairly often, and are obviously notable in themselves. Thue (talk) 20:08, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support I follow this conflict intently, and I can assure you this is biggest development/news item to emerge in a fairly long time. QatarStarsLeague (talk) 02:08, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose for now, but would support given an update to support the stated magnitude of the situation. "Seems big" is not a good enough rationale; there needs to be enough information such that the article does reflect whether or not it is "big." – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 04:39, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
  • A country using airstrikes against a group on its own territory is almost per definition notable. Thue (talk) 09:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
    • That Nigeria notably used airstrikes in its own territory is not clear from the blurb or the article itself. That it needs to be explained here shows the issue; the article needs to explain why this is notable. Without that being noted and referenced, it doesn't seem to be notable for ITN. The article/blurb need to better present the magnitude of said airstrikes for it to make sense as an ITN item. I don't question that it's perhaps quite notable, after reading other sources, but the given information doesn't suggest that. – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 10:05, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

The blusb and article mention the events or the airstrike AND the blockade.Lihaas (talk) 13:32, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

They still do not seem to explain the particular relevance of those events, though, simply that they occurred. That's my concern. Was this the first major government counter-offensive? Was it some sort of turning point against Boko Haram? It seems like those things may be the case, but I cannot tell from the article. – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 16:53, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

To answer your question, yes, this marks a precipitous turning point. QatarStarsLeague (talk) 17:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for answering my question, but the real issue is to make the article do so without me needing to ask the question. :) – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 19:07, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose - As the blurb says 'continues', it's not clear what the actual event is here that provides a hook for this posting. AlexTiefling (talk) 11:22, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

It started 4 days ago. So its not stale, but its also ongoingLihaas (talk) 13:32, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

• Comment-I notice above that User:Jusdafax posted the following: "No doubt that this topic is ITN-worthy for a blurb." Please, do tell how this topic differs in essence? In fact, this topic is slightly more strident, within the context of the respective conflicts. QatarStarsLeague (talk) 03:20, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

2013 IIHF World Championship Final

• Nominated by Hydrox (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Heymid (talk · give credit) and Kante4 (talk · give credit)

Support When a match summary is available when the background section is fully referenced (I think looks good otherwise), due to it's listing at WP:ITNR as a major tournament with participants from numerous nations. --wintonian 16:49, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

As for the stats I would say no as the important thing here is the first ever win (by a host since 1986). --wintonian 16:53, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

So do you mean you are for the altblurb in case Switzerland wins, but not in case Sweden wins? --hydrox (talk) 17:03, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes thats right the Alt blurb which ever way it ends up. - Sorry I should of made that clearer. --wintonian 17:07, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

That makes lots of sense. First-ever victory is obviously much bigger deal than first victory by the host since X years. --hydrox (talk) 17:11, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose completely unreferenced at this time (per the Heineken Cup example below, seemingly irrelevant that it's in ITN/R). The Rambling Man (talk) 19:08, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
  • TRM, thank you so much for pointing that out. I've added the appropriate template to that section in the hopes that it's corrected for posting. --IP98 (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Could you at least wait until the game has ended and there's something to reference? --hydrox (talk) 19:22, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
    • Could you have waited until there was something to post before nominating it or was it simply a case of getting another nomination? I don't understand. Opposing on quality ground for ITN/R is perfectly justified, surely, since that's the only ground to argue with these types of nominations. Oh, and all of the existing article can be referenced while you wait for the final result. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:26, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
      • Sorry for nominating this item prematurely. For my defense, it clearly says in the nomination that the game's result will not be known until 21:00 UTC. I requested opinions regarding the blurb in hopes of establishing a consensus, if you read above. I believe your opposition is just a provocation, as you should know that WP:OTHERSTUFF is not a valid nor helpful argument here. --hydrox (talk) 19:46, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
        • It's fine, just reference those things that can be referenced in the meantime, and then be prepared to write several dozen sentences of referenced prose before it's acceptable. Good luck. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:38, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
        • No, it's not a provocation, when I looked at the article it had not one single reference. That was mentioned in my oppose. Your response is neither valid nor helpful. Please, if you haven't already, address those concerns. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:52, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support per ITN/R. The article lacks information about the summary of the game and its aftermath because it has just ended, so there should be substantial improvements to put it in order for posting.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. The article has very few sources and is of low quality currently. It would be a shame to post it in this shape. Mohamed CJ (talk) 21:34, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support because, as Kiril says, the game has just ended, and the article will be easier to reference soon. But right now I think it's sufficiently referenced. This news is a no-brainer for ITN. Perhaps write: "In ice hockey, the IIHF World Championship concludes with Sweden defeating Switzerland in the final, becoming the first host nation since 1986 to win the tournament." HeyMid (contribs) 21:38, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
  • I've added a summary as well as more references to the article. I think it's ready to be published at ITN. HeyMid (contribs) 23:22, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support per ITN/R, good update. --IP98 (talk) 23:44, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support and frame this for people who put sporting events/contests etc. (like Super Bowl, Eurovision, etc.) for an example of what a decent update looks like. This has a sufficient prose update of the event itself being reported on, exactly as it should. --Jayron32 02:14, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Posted - nice job on the update. I echo Jayron's sentiment, agreeing that this is what an update on a sporting event should look like. --ThaddeusB (talk) 03:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Yeah, with an inadequate lead, unreferenced paragraphs in the prose, a vastly inaccessible table, no key for those who are lucky enough to see the "colourful" approach, a match summary with odd italicised terms that are meaningless to most of the readership, one reference for most of the Summary, (and 40% of refs in Swedish).... sure thing, "nice job". And yet we get bitching about "European" sports updates. Ironic. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
    • What's really ironic is that someone who bitches constantly about too much "arbitrary" counting, says an update is bad because it uses one source. Using two (or 15) sources for the same exact info would not make it better, and you know it. On the other points, non-English sources are perfectly acceptable, the lead is OK - our standard is not perfection, and this was a match played between two European teams so I have no idea what "double standard" you think I am imposing. Why do you feel the need to make everything personal here? Are you trying to upset and/or chase away everyone who has a different point of view than you, because it sure feels like that is your goal. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:26, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
      • No what's ironic is that you made a statement which was patently incorrect. Perhaps you're not aware of what makes a good article, but your position that the update to this article was something akin to a "test case" is depressingly incorrect. There is so much wrong with this article and its "good update" that it should be pulled, but I haven't the time or energy to deal with those who genuinely believe the update made to this article is "what an update on a sporting event should look like". That's just unreal. For 12 hours this article had linkrot issues all over it, the tag was just happily removed by someone who said they'd deal with it at some point. But they didn't. It also suffers from the other problems I've noted above. It's clear there's another issue here, that articles which are promoted to the main page (and I assume this wasn't promoted with stacks of bare URLs for refs, surely not?) in a good state are then allowed to sit with maintenance tags almost immediately afterwards because this process doesn't extend beyond this "getting on the main page" issue. Ship it, then it's someone else's problem.
      • " Are you trying to upset and/or chase away everyone who has a different point of view than you, because it sure feels like that is your goal." No, I just want some of the people here who do nothing but bitch and "vote" to actually step up and edit articles. I know you do Thaddeus, but many, many people here are simply jeering spectators. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
        • In my opinion, the update was very good. The overall quality of the article is roughly "start class" and can be improved, but that doesn't chance that the update itself was good. It seems to me that you regularly argue a single sentence is a good enough update, so I don't think you have much ground to say this update was inadequate. However, if you had a problem with the update you could have mentioned it before it was posted. Irregardless, by making everything personal you undermine any valid points you have. Edit summaries like "double standards personified" do nothing but provoke people. Based on the multiple personal slaps in your complaint+replies, I doubt you would have even commented if someone else posted it. Your recent behavior towards certain editors recently has been really unbecoming and has only increased hostilities here. An editor of your experience really should know better. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
          • I did oppose it, as you can see, and you posted it in the middle of the night. It was not a good quality update. And thanks for your advice, always appreciated. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
            • You opposed before the update occurred (and before the event even happened), so there is no way I could have known you thought it was insufficient. It's always the "middle of the night" somewhere. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:19, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

May 18

Heineken Cup

• Nominated by Modest Genius (talk · give credit)

• Oppose based on article quality. No update, article still written in the future tense, no synopsis of the game, giant orange tag at the top. Fix this up to something we'd be proud of on the main page, and you can consider this opposition withdrawn. --Jayron32 21:16, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I agree with those observations. Unfortunately I don't have time to work on the articles right now. Modest Genius 21:22, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Have done some work on the "final" article, at least to remove the orange tag. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:30, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Updated to correct tense, to include final score, scorers etc. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:28, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• Comment If you really want to convince non-aficionados of the merits of this, put the name of the sport in the title or the blurb. HiLo48 (talk) 23:29, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Good point. Done. Modest Genius 00:28, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. Article not updated. Also seems rather insignificant on the scale of world events. Kaldari (talk) 23:55, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
  • What's missing from the article? It's ITN/R, so your opinion regarding the significance is somewhat irrelevant I'm afraid. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:28, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• C It's ITN/R so a vote is not really warranted, but Rugby items are more uncommon and frankly less hyped than AFootball ones. That would work for/against it, depending on your POV. --85.210.96.53 (talk) 01:08, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
  • It's not a "vote" on it's notability(nor is it ever a "vote"; consensus decides things, not a vote), it's a discussion about the quality of the article suggested; it can still be rejected on those grounds. 331dot (talk) 01:11, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose didn't we already post a rugby union cup contested between the exact same 6 nations? One which has been around for 130 years? I think called the 2013 Six Nations Championship? The Heineken Cup is played by "regional and provincial teams". Sounds like not top of sport to me. --IP98 (talk) 15:48, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Sorry, it's ITN/R. If you wish to oppose it based on your own opinion rather than review the article for quality update, then you should attempt to get this delisted from ITN/R. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:18, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
    • Thank you for your kind clarification, it's truly appreciated. --IP98 (talk) 16:22, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
      • It's been sitting here for a day as an ITN/R. I shouldn't have to clarify these things to you. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:24, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
        • Yes, of course, thank you again, you're correct. --IP98 (talk) 16:26, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
          • Don't see you using the same "not top-tier" argument for the NCAA noms...--85.210.101.34 (talk) 20:12, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Comment for those of you who understand ITN/R, could you let me know precisely what more you need for the "update" to be sufficient quality for it to be ready to post? Despite most of the blustering editors here, I'm still prepared to actually fix things. Please let me know soonest what you want to see. By the way, I've looked for "reactions" all over the internet, and have failed, if you think I've missed something there, perhaps you can present alternative information that's missing. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:22, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Maybe it would make sense to add a prose update to the 2012–13 Heineken Cup#Final and bold link that article. From a WP reader standpoint, I don't see what value a list of players has for me, which is a big part of 2013 Heineken Cup Final. Just a thought. --IP98 (talk) 16:34, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
    • The final is bold linked in the blurb, the list of players is information useful just as you'd expect to know who played in the final of a Superbowl or who played in the final of the FA Cup. What more prose do you expect? (compare 2012 Heineken Cup Final which was happily posted last year)... The Rambling Man (talk) 16:39, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
      • My sincere apologies if I was unclear. I propose bold linking "2012-13 Heineken Cup" and adding a prose update to the Final section. If an interested reader really cares about the players, they'll find it in 2013 Heineken Cup final. --IP98 (talk) 16:43, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
        • Well sure, but last year's final article (which is what ITN/R suggests) was posted, and we should do the same this year. So what's wrong with the final article? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:06, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
          • We don't have to keep doing the same thing year after year. The "route to final" section has helped to build out the article, so the suggestion is moot now. --IP98 (talk) 19:24, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
            • Well it's not moot as you still oppose, so what else do you want to see? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:29, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
              • It's fine now, just needed to be padded out. You did great. The 2012-13 Heineken Cup article is also in the blurb. My oppose will be ignored as invalid, so good there. Mark it ready. --IP98 (talk) 19:41, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
                • Of course not, that would be a conflict of interest. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:43, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Comment the article has already matched last year's final article in content and refs which was posted at ITN. Can someone identify what's actually wrong with the "final" article to stop it being posted? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:06, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support why is this a debate? We need a new ITN even and is on ITN/R. Is there something against sports at ITN? YE 19:13, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose What's next, Bud vs Bud Light? Where's the link to the original discussion establishing this as an ITNR item? μηδείς (talk) 19:32, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• Ready It says about all it can say. Sourced. The summary section is shorter than 2012 but it looks like it was a less eventful match. --IP98 (talk) 19:49, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Posted --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:14, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Marriage extended to same-sex couples in France

• Oppose stale, not news, and we don't "right wrongs". μηδείς (talk) 19:10, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
  • It's on every news site on the internet. How can it be "not news"? Not sure I understand you comment about "we don't right wrongs". What does that mean? Kaldari (talk) 19:43, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Comment Did we post this for New Zealand? --wintonian 19:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Further comment, France is a major country and this is a major development plus the previous discussion was probably in support of posting now makes me want to support this. However are we going to post this every-time a major country legalises same-sex marriage? and how do we determine what is a major country or not? --wintonian 22:54, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps the same way it is determined what is a major killing. The threshold for that seems to be around 10, so maybe for major civil rights changes the threshold could be 10,000,000? --ELEKHH 01:17, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support. Seems like significant world news. France is the 4th biggest country in Europe so this affects a lot of people. Kaldari (talk) 19:43, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose This was already basically nominated and failed a week or two ago. And no, we did not post the New Zealand one either I cannot remember it passing.75.73.114.111 (talk) 19:50, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose only because this came up before and was not posted. I won't beat the dead horse. 331dot (talk) 20:21, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
  • If not posting would have been the result of consensus not to post I would understand your position. --ELEKHH 01:10, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

To 331dot and IP 75.73 - there seemed to be widespread agreement after the France and NZ votes had dropped off ITNC that they should, arguably, have been posted after all. There did not seem to be any clear explanation as to why they were not. However, it is not my purpose to revisit those discussions. What I'd like to do is to ask you to consider this nomination on its merits, rather than on the basis of the alleged lack of consensus earlier. (If the previous French nomination had succeeded, or been clearly defeated, I would naturally not be asking this.) AlexTiefling (talk) 11:34, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support on the merits and on a reading of the previous discussion. First, France is a reasonably large and influential country and the opening of a long-standing social institution to a significant proportion of its population is important news worthy of ITN. Second, I'd read the previous discussion as either "no consensus" or weak support for posting. Part of the issue appears to have been that it was premature, as the bill hadn't yet been signed into law.--Chaser (talk) 21:29, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose France is the 14th country to legalise same-sex marriage, so it's not particularly novel. -- Hazhk 22:34, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
  • It's quite novel in France, affecting the rights of 65 million people. It is also novel in comparison with the current top news item about the most recent bombing in Iraq. --ELEKHH 01:10, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose These stories have ceased to present any meaningful threshold. It is a minor, and no longer novel, change in internal legislation that is gradually rolling out across the world. There is no merit in spotlighting every step in the journey. Kevin McE (talk) 23:33, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

I can cut and paste as well: It's so minor that groups on each side around the world engage in massive protests(on some occasions violent) and spend large sums of money to persuade people to support them. The pro side is still a minority view, as it's legal in less than 10% of sovereign states. I oppose posting this story, but this isn't minor or novel. 331dot (talk) 23:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support. As historically a Catholic country, this is a major step. (Although, if this is rejected it won't upset me too much because from then on only a fool would nominate another US state.) HiLo48 (talk) 23:47, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm. I think legalisations in the US will continue to get nominated and posted, but we'll see. Formerip (talk) 19:45, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

France is a legally secular country, with a nominally Catholic Majority but Mass attendance of <5% and only 3% placed "Belief" among the four most important governing principles of their life in a 2008, the 25th out of 27 countries surveyed. The "Catholicism" of the country is not an issue. Kevin McE (talk) 09:42, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support Widely reported world-wide, and as it hasn't been posted when passed in parliament despite 2/3 support. --ELEKHH 01:02, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose It was never really illegal, all that's happened is that any ambiguity has been cleared up. Less than 10 years from the first attempt to legalization. The left leaning parties control the national assembly and senate. No Tiblisi style street protests. Generally this seems to be a continuing trend in highly developed western societies. I'm opposing this so that we don't become a "Gay marriage ticker". I'm reserving support now for societies where there is significant social opposition (Russia), legal opposition (USA), or where a constitutional change would be required (rather than a legislative one) (IE Poland). --IP98 (talk) 11:17, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support. It's estimated that a million people demonstrated in Paris the weekend before the bill entered the legislature and it's the biggest change to gay rights in France since the Revolution. 11:34, 19 May 2013 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by FormerIP (talk • contribs)

More like since 1981/82 given the repeal then of the last criminal laws and the equalization of the age of consent. μηδείς (talk) 15:21, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm not really sure I know what you are referring to. Looking at our article, gayness was an aggravating factor for indecent exposure until 1980. I'm not dismissing that, but I think gay marriage and adoption rights are a bigger change that more people are likely to notice. Formerip (talk) 16:38, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

strong oppose nothing landmark or unexpected about it. It breaks not hirsotry/traditionLihaas (talk) 19:04, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Is that why there were massive protests against it? Because it didn't break history or tradition? 331dot (talk) 19:46, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support - This should have been posted when it was voted through; however, the signing-in has made the news, and the story remains as relevant. I don't want to see an endless deluge of such articles, but this one has been particularly close-fought, and HiLo48 is right - this is a big deal. I'm quite conversant with the history of queer rights in France; Lihaas' argument is (and I don't say this on ITN much) wrong as a matter of fact. AlexTiefling (talk) 11:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Comment Of what does the update consist" All I see is On 17 May 2013, the Constitutional Council declared the Act constitutional. The same day, President Francois Hollande signed the bill, which was officially published on 18 May 2013, in the Journal Officiel.. μηδείς (talk) 17:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose No more gay marriage ITN's until Afghanistan legalises it. --RA (talk) 23:08, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

DSM-5

• Nominated by Yorkshiresky (talk · give credit)

• Comment changed updated to no. Article needs a tense update. --IP98 (talk) 17:14, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support posting after update. DSM is used worldwide, so an update like this one has a huge impact on clinical providers as well as on individuals with mental disorders. There's been a lot of controversy related to its contents, and it's been almost 20 years since the 4th edition came out. Mikael Häggström (talk) 17:51, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support when updated - The pending publication has been in and out of the news for weeks, so clearly this is a major story. I prefer the main blurb which does not try to decide what is the most important update of the manual. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:49, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose This isn't exactly In The News (unless...), it's been discussed for months, and it amounts to a commercial role-out, no different in essence from the debut of Windows 8 (ad perhaps eqally lamented). μηδείς (talk) 19:08, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

oppose;;; not in the news anywhere. At any rate, doesn't indicate global noteworthiness.Lihaas (talk) 20:32, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support I doubt that this is about a commercial product. It is a notable manual for a very notable section of public health. I don't think it would hurt to feature this on ITN for a few days. Nergaal (talk) 20:34, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support The DSM is not just another product. It is the Bible for mental illness. It is the key guide for anyone who regularly deals with mental illness in their profession (not only psychiatrists and psychologists, but also for other professionals and paraprofessionals, such as attorneys, paralegals, medical doctors, health care providers of all kinds, etc.). New editions are rare, with the years of publication of prior editions being: 1952, 1968, 1980, 1994 (with intervening revisions in 1987 and 2000; see the article for more details). Of course, much of the news is past, in the sense that a lot of the controversy and discussion about the contents of the DSM-V necessarily happened prior to publication. But readers who click through will get to read about that, many for the first time.--Chaser (talk) 21:40, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support sadly the opposes show distinct lack of understanding of the significance. Links to unrelated Youtube videos are twee and entirely unhelpful. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support, only because we did not bring this up in December, when it should have been a no-brainer. This is a very important publication in psychiatry, and aside from the text revision in 2000, it hasn't been updated in almost twenty years. Not to mention how damn controversial this is... so I think this is still worth posting now. _EricLeb (Page | Talk) 01:07, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support — Per Chaser above, the DSM is the #1 professional resource for all things dealing with mental health. A new edition is a pretty notable event. Kurtis 06:56, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support - Unusual, but an interesting change of pace. I lean towards the alt blurb as the way to go. Jusdafax 08:18, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Willing to post. Reading the comments, the book being published is a big deal. However, I am not fully convinced we should stress Asperger here. Some more thoughts maybe? --Tone 08:24, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Leave Asperger out. I'm generally opposed to any sort of "highlight" in a posting. --IP98 (talk) 15:18, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. Use the main blurb.--Chaser (talk) 19:00, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• The DSM is a product of the American Psychiatric Association, not a peer-reviewed scholarly work. It's latest rollout has been rejected by the NIMH under the Obama administration as the basis for Federal grants. This posting would be highly uninformed--a blurb saying the NIMH has rejected the DSM would be appropriate. Nonprofit Quarterly: "The DSM is used not only by practitioners to diagnose conditions, but also by insurance companies to determine treatments to be covered, so it is a socially powerful document. Insel, however, believes that the DSM is less than scientific." μηδείς (talk) 15:28, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
  • We're not here to play psychiatrist and assess the validity of the thing. We're here to judge whether or not it makes for a good news piece. And it does. If users are really interested, they will read the article we're advertising and learn all about the controversies (and I don't deny that they are valid arguments) that you mention. _EricLeb (Page | Talk) 17:04, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
    • I have no idea what you mean by "play psychiatrist", and the criticisms of this guild handbook still stand, but the sources evinced for this are a book review and a blog. That's not news. μηδείς (talk) 19:27, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Comment. The altblurb may be slightly misleading, since it gives the impression that DSM is a list of things that do and don't exist. AS will still be diagnosable and it will still be in other manuals such as ICD-10, it just isn't included in DSM-V. Formerip (talk) 17:29, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support with primary blurb; oppose alternate blurb, as it puts undue emphasis on a particular syndrome which will still be recognized elsewhere. This appears to be a significant update to a widely used and highly notable medical text, which hasn't been updated past a "text revision" in nearly 20 years. – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 04:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Not Ready - The majority of the article reads "it is proposed..." Someone really needs to clear up which of the proposals made it through to the publication version before we post. --ThaddeusB (talk) 06:06, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support when updated - This is a landmark in the field of mental health - which we rarely if ever carry stories about. I'm well aware of the problems with DSM5's status and acceptance; but the publication is making the news, in part because of those issues. I oppose the altblurb - ASD reclassification is only one of several contentious areas. AlexTiefling (talk) 11:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support Very interesting. Great topic for an ITN. --RA (talk) 23:04, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

RD Aleksei Balabanov

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• Nominated by Brandmeister (talk · give credit)

• Oppose: the article is a stub which contains little more than a filmography. It cites hardly any sources (there is a "citation needed" tag right now). This is not the sort of article we want to present on the main page. --RJFF (talk) 17:03, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

I take it that's not a hard oppose, and that like me you might support this if the nominator or someone else improves the article sufficiently? μηδείς (talk) 20:44, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

BTW, this is NOT updated, and the nominator should look at the update requirements for an obit. μηδείς (talk) 20:46, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

That's update "guidelines", of course. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:50, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose per ITN/DC #2. Popularity != top of field. Ref Tony Scott. Also article is orange tagged, too short, and not adequately updated for his death. --IP98 (talk) 15:25, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose Quality of article is poor, and no indication that he is sufficiently noteworthy. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:31, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose Brat and Brat 2 are nowhere near notable enough to make a director ITN worthy.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:58, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Eurovision Song Contest 2013

• Nominated by Eugen Simion 14 (talk · give credit)

• Support ITNR, notable event.--85.210.99.147 (talk) 10:32, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support per ITN/R. The largest annual music competition in Europe with about 500 million people watching it every year is a very big deal. Australia is one of the non-European countries that broadcast it, and the event is widely followed on the Internet.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:37, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Comment I've removed the links to the Denmark's entry because we don't know yet who will it. Misplaced Pages does not predict the future to document anything that will or is likely to happen, regardless of its favourite role according to the odds by the bookmakers.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:37, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support big international event. I guess the purpose of the links was to show how the blurb might look when the winner is known. Last year ITN said:

• "Euphoria", by Swedish singer Loreen, wins the Eurovision Song Contest.

A similar blurb if Denmark wins:

• "Only Teardrops", by Danish singer Emmelie de Forest (pictured), wins the Eurovision Song Contest.

PrimeHunter (talk) 11:52, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

• Yes, but why to use Denmark as an example? Why not any other country? However, it's better and simple not to use any of them. And yes, Denmark has the best song this year and deserves to win the contest finally after having good songs for many years.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:57, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

The bookmakers have Denmark as a huuuge favorite. They are basically refusing to take bets on Denmark. The next-lowest odds gives the money back 6 times. Since the bookmakers are usually right, the contest is very close to a done deal. Thue (talk) 14:15, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

We need something which is 100% sure. Your opinion that it's very close to a done deal is not appropriate as per one of the main rules on Misplaced Pages. As for your information, two years ago France was given evens and even 4/7 by the bookmakers, but the contest was won by the Azerbaijani entry.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:33, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

...or maybe prepare a really shocking blurb for when Romania wins: 'It's My Life' by Cezar... etc., etc Martinevans123 (talk) 14:37, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

For gods sake what difference does it make whether the blurb mentions Denmark when it's only a hypothetical. Nobody's going to post it to the MP until it's official.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

And what if there's dead heat?! Martinevans123 (talk) 15:04, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support, no question of inclusion as recurring and importance in EU, just the wording.(And please let it be "My Lovely Horse" by the Craggy Island Parish :) ). --MASEM (t) 15:13, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support - definitly for ITN. And if posted, I want credit to as I nominated this article already yesterday a bit premature bit still.--BabbaQ (talk) 15:21, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support when updated and if of a good enough standard at the time etc. Europe's annual political relationship bickering update - of course it should be posted, plus it is the largest and most prestigious music competition in Europe. --wintonian 16:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Note I was ready to post this, but in scanning the article I don't see a suitable prose update of the final, just charts and infobox update. If someone can do a referenced synopsis of the final (like we would expect for sporting events and other contests of a similar nature) and/or some meaningful prose about the winning entrant, something like that, I will post. --Jayron32 22:33, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure what you expect other than "Denmark won". This is all that's happened. The overall article is in good condition, I don't really know what more you want to see there. But hey ho. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:44, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
    • Surely something happened in 4(?) hours of TV coverage besides the host announcing "Denmark won" to which not one RS in the world reacted. --ThaddeusB (talk) 22:53, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
      • A mere 3 hours and 30 minutes, in fact. 1) The winner was announced before all the votes had been counted (apparently by mistake). 2) UK got more that 20 points. 3) Graham Norton stayed awake. So all quite extraordinary really. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:38, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
  • That's not what we did last year or in 2011 when Eurovision Song Contest 2012 & Eurovision Song Contest 2011 were linked to respectively. --wintonian 23:46, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
    • So bad decisions from the past should be perpetuated merely because they were done before? That's a pretty lousy reason to refuse to make an article better, which should be our goal at Misplaced Pages regardless. --Jayron32 02:27, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
      • I haven't said or suggested that, what I have done however is to meraly point out that this hasn't been necessary in at least the last two occurrences at ITN as I thought such history may be useful in aiding the discussion. Perhaps you misunderstood me? --wintonian 02:58, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
        • I understand you would rather post substandard articles on the main page than fix them up into a decent shape. You know, the time you spend arguing that you shouldn't add some prose to the article could have been spent adding that prose. Had you done that, I would have already posted this instead of leaving this response. --Jayron32 03:13, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support - Contest has now ended, Denmark has won. --] 23:07, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support alternative blurb only. Quite a significant competition for a large percentage of the world population. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:32, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Posting. Regarding the prose update - Denmark won is pretty much all that happened. Reactions here are mostly personal opinions of commentators and are not encyclopedic material per se. --Tone 07:59, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure where anyone asked for reactions or personal opinions. Synopsis of the four hour event or an overview of the winner and/or her song would have been appropriate and would not have required any opinions or reactions. --Jayron32 18:32, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Maybe you're not familiar with Eurovision. It follows this format every year: half an hour about the previous winner and the host city/nation, 26 (or so) songs from the nations who qualified for the final, half an hour (or so) of padding while the voting happens, then results. The winner and her song have a separate article already. That's it. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:02, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• Posting articles with essentially zero prose update makes a mockery of having update standards. It would have taken 10 minutes of work to describe the voting phase, for example. Tables of stats do NOT sufficiently convey what happened. And yes, a sampling of reactions from notable media sources is perfectly appropriate and "encyclopedic". It is a standard part of articles on music albums, for example. It amazing how when something is a European sporting event/cultural item it gets supported/posted with "a sentence update is all that can be said" (yah right) but when its an American sport/cultural item its "this update is insufficient until multiple paragraphs are written" (the appropriate standard). --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:18, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

  I have to agree with your awareness on the quality, but every year the articles documenting the Eurovision Song Contest are of exceptionally high quality. If we use these articles to set a standard for posting, then it would be very hard to post anything else on the main page. I don't think it's a good idea to detail the voting process since there already is a particular article explaining it. You can note there are many other complementary articles documenting many different aspects of this contest and thus looking for shortcomings in an article in this shape is not welcome and appropriate for the future evaluation of the other articles. To make additional note, the blurb documents the whole event, not only the voting process and the reactions after the win.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

  P.S. I also don't agree with you that the topics relating to something happening in the United States are the only requiring substantial updates, while anything else is easily posted with only one-sentence update. Recently, there where many fellow users who regularly contribute to the ITN section and were trying to introduce a five-sentence update as a minimum requirement for posting. In this case, the news is the Eurovision Song Contest 2013 and you should evaluate the whole article instead of some specific details. Honestly, less than 5% of the articles emerging in the ITN section on the main page do have quality greater than this one.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:43, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

  Let me phrase it a different way - those who don't care about update length (as per their usual comment pattern) are mostly from Europe and those who care a lot are mostly from the US. That is probably what causes the discrepancy in !voting (almost all posts form all regions are well updated), rather than actual bias. No dispute that the overall article quality here is very good. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:08, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Philippine general election

• Nominated by LukeSurl (talk · give credit)

• I added an altblurb. In Philippine political history, the party (or coalition) of the president always wins. In this case, most of the seats were contests between coalition parties of Team PNoy. –HTD 02:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Here's the altblurb as the template is fubared:

    In the Philippine general election, Team PNoy wins a majority in the Senate and in the House of Representatives.

  • –HTD 02:44, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Both articles have been updated. –HTD 02:42, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support - Ready to go. AlexTiefling (talk) 11:37, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• The article still needs some work. Some parts are still in future tense, even though the election was seven days ago! It is quite messy, the results are not complete, and I do not see a considerable update in prose. --RJFF (talk) 12:16, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
  • I believe I sorted out the verb tense problems now. As for the results, they are either incomplete (lower house), or the remaining votes are already immaterial (upper house). The party (or coalition) of the president always "wins" the lower house elections, so the pronouncements of "Team PNoy 'winning'" is a done deal. As for prose updates, Philippine Senate election, 2013 has 19 references and 3 sections of at least 2 long paragraphs each, and the updates Philippine House of Representatives elections, 2013 is certainly longer than what are currently being proposed here. –HTD 15:17, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

May 17

Portal:Current events/2013 May 17

May 17, 2013 (2013-05-17) (Friday) edit history watch Armed conflicts and attacks Iraqi insurgency (post-U.S. withdrawal): A string of bombings, most of them in Sunni areas of Iraq, kill at least 90 people and injured more than 200 others. (Times of India) War in North-West Pakistan: Two bombs explode near two separate mosques in the Malakand District of Pakistan, killing 15 people and wounding at least 100 others. (Dawn) Business and economy The United States government paves the way for expanded exportation of natural gas by approving a US$10 billion facility in Texas. (Reuters) Disasters and accidents Ottawa experiences a 5.2 magnitude earthquake. (CTV) A US Navy Seal is killed and 7 others are injured as their Humvee rolls over during a training exercise. (Reuters) Two Metro-North commuter trains collide near Bridgeport, Connecticut injuring at least 72 people and resulting in the cancellation of Amtrak services between New York City and Boston. (USA Today)(CNN) Politics and elections Jorge Rafael Videla, who served as President of Argentina after the 1976 Argentine coup d'état, dies at the age of 87 in a jail of Marcos Paz, Buenos Aires. (USA Today) Law and crime A million dollars worth of jewelry meant for use by celebrities at the 2013 Cannes Film Festival is stolen from a Novotel hotel room in Cannes. (BBC) An anti-homophobia march in the Georgian capital Tbilisi results in a riot with dozens of people injured as opponents attack the march. (Institute for War and Peace Reporting) Science and technology NASA records the brightest lunar meteor impact yet observed. (National Geographic) Mild electric shock is shown to provide lasting improvement to mathematical ability. (Nature) Sports In golf, former U.S. Open winner and longtime TV analyst Ken Venturi dies at age 82. (ABC News) Tbilisi gay rights protests Article: 2013 Tbilisi gay rights protests (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ An anti-homophobia demonstration in Georgia clashes with Orthodox priests and a mob (Post) News source(s): Credits: Nominated by Nestrabonk (talk · give credit) Updated by Yerevanci (talk · give credit) Article updatedNominator's comments: My apologies if I overestimate the importance of this event. This part of the world is rarely featured in the news. It's rare to see 10,000 protestors led by priests attack a tiny demonstration by rights activists. It's what one would expect from the Taliban, but it's happening right there in a Christian country that aspires to accede the European Union. Note also that the scale of the counter demonstration is unheard of. -- Nestrabonk (talk) 09:17, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Support - I support it because it is a rare event in the region.--BabbaQ (talk) 15:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Support as creator - Not only a rare event in the region, but also very interesting because of the active involvement of the church. The Orthodox church in Georgia has extreme popularity among the public (I've read somewhere that 94% of the public has confidence in it) and PM Bidzina Ivanishvili, who is in a confrontation with President Saakashvili, seems to be sympathetic to the minorities. --Երևանցի 15:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose No deaths or otherwise notable things. Such demonstrations occur in other countries as well from time to time. Brandmeister 16:55, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Support - Major English-language media reported, like NYT, BBC, Daily Mail, Chicago Tribune, etc. --RJFF (talk) 16:57, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Opposed Interesting given the religious involvement, but not a major event or news item. μηδείς (talk) 18:59, 18 May 2013 (UTC) BTW, the article could use a little work getting it into polished idiomatic English. μηδείς (talk) 19:00, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose Especially the blurb as it is. No evidence of priests "attacking" as the blurb implies. I have watched many videos of it and have only seem them marching, so I wonder where that came from. The attacking was not too violent, there were no deaths. Although quite a few injuries!75.73.114.111 (talk) 19:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Support - If you look in the NYT article the priests removed the police barricades cause the police don't want to stop priests in Georgia and the busses saved the incident from being much worse. It's got priests, it's got gays, it's got ex-Soviet politics, it's got future EU member, it's got violence. Almost as many diverse things as a Stalinist + Big-Ben -esque world's biggest building financed by petroleum built next to the Kaaba by an absolute monarch. And I learned something today about Georgia. We post many things that are merely interesting. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:17, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Support per SMW. 331dot (talk) 20:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Comment the new blurb is much better, but might want to change "mob" to "protesters". Or perhaps even change it to just mention a clash with "protesters" and various injuries, not sure how important mentioning priests are. but I am no professional. but i am almost learning in support now75.73.114.111 (talk) 21:24, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Support as during editing, I found this was the first officially sanctioned demonstration of its kind in Georgia. I don't think I'd support it otherwise, but being the first of its kind in that country seems notable. Blurb should perhaps be updated to note something like "The first officially sanctioned anti-homophobia demonstration in Georgia clashes with Orthodox priests and other protestors" ("a mob" does seem excessive.) – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 04:34, 20 May 2013 (UTC) Comment Could we perhaps throw in a "nation of" for Georgia? I regret to say that many of my fellow Americans will no doubt be confused by this entry at first glance (as I was myself, momentarily, when I first saw the Times headline). — PinkAmpers& 16:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC) Iraq attacks Article: 17 May 2013 Iraq bombings (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ A series of bombings in Iraq leave at least 76 people dead. (Post) Alternative blurb: ​ An upsurge in violence leaves 130 dead over three days in Iraq. News source(s): Credits: Updated and nominated by ThaddeusB (talk · give credit) Article updatedNominator's comments: Deadliest day in Iraq in 8+ months (specifically since Sept 9, 2012); part of trend of increasing violence in the country --ThaddeusB (talk) 04:57, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Support Obviously in the news, and obviously big. HiLo48 (talk) 05:02, 18 May 2013 (UTC) God, when will it end? Obvious support. I wish Iraq could find peace again. It is painful and distressing to me that the very ancient and wonderful nation of Iraq could be subject to such horrors on a regular basis. I hope peace will come soon. Kurtis 05:52, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Support - Escalating level of violence. Lean towards alt blurb. Jusdafax 08:59, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Support - Thank goodness the war is over, right? Er, hmm... Anyway, the death toll is significant in the country's struggle with sectarian violence. --WaltCip (talk) 13:06, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Support Obviously, very tragic... many deaths75.73.114.111 (talk) 19:54, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Comment the infoboxes really make the article look ugly on 1024x768. I tried adding a TOC to push the second one down but it made things worse. More text would certainly help. Has nothing to do with the suitability of the nom, but it just looks "ugly". Anyway... --IP98 (talk) 19:57, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose there seems no point in continuing to list continuous indiscriminate slaughter, it becomes a gruesome farce. A sticky would make much more sense. μηδείς (talk) 20:51, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Posted --Jayron32 21:20, 18 May 2013 (UTC) RD Ken Venturi Article: Ken Venturi (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) News source(s): Credits: Nominated by ThaddeusB (talk · give credit) Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: World Golf Hall of Fame Member; Nominated on the combined basis of his playing career and "longest-ever" (in the US) broadcasting career --ThaddeusB (talk) 01:37, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose His playing and broadcasting are both notable, but I don't think that (even combined) they make him a very important figure in golf. Neljack (talk) 03:37, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Weak Oppose at this stage Obviously successful, but I'm wondering, given the attention to media people here lately, if we're going down the Marshall McLuhan path and attirubuitng too much improtance to commentators. After all, these aren't the people who are doing the great sporting things. They are the people talking about those people. It's hard to get my head around how important it is to talk about other successful people for a long time. (PS: I note ThaddeusB's thoughtful qualification on his broadcasting career record. It's interesting that only one source seems to mention the record, and that's a golf source claiming a golf person is the best in all sport. Hmmmm. The source doesn't qualify it as being only an American record, but American sources tend not to do that sort of thing anyway. Not questioning it. Just noting...) QUESTION: Did he ever play golf internationally? HiLo48 (talk) 03:53, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Weak oppose per Neljack. Not the top of his field. Only recognition seems to be being in the Hall of Fame for his combined body of work(golf and broadcasting) but not particularly notable in either field individually. 331dot (talk) 08:52, 18 May 2013 (UTC) RD Jorge Rafael Videla Article: Jorge Rafael Videla (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) Credits: Nominated by IP98 (talk · give credit) Updated by EdwardLane (talk · give credit) Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: Putting the header on the nom created by EdwardLane --IP98 (talk) 17:31, 17 May 2013 (UTC) was going to nom Jorge Rafael Videla for RD but wondered what happened to the header for the 17th, I thought that was automated ? EdwardLane (talk) 15:34, 17 May 2013 (UTC) The issue has been noted. Best to fill out the nomination here for now. When the bot problem is resolved we can move the section. --LukeSurl 15:40, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Support NYT on the subject. Support, personal opinions aside, it's still the death of a former head of state Cambalachero (talk) 16:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Support, former de facto head of state, also notable for how he got there. 331dot (talk) 16:59, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Support Former head of state, war criminal. Important to post. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:15, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Comment the update is a single sentence, and it may be as good as it gets, but be prepared for the backlash on a "minimum update standard requirement" (even though the article is in a very reasonable state). The Rambling Man (talk) 17:19, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Support important to post. Rambling man is right about the minimum update however.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:31, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Support pending update Article is ok (illegal detention centres is factual but slightly POV). Would prefer a longer update. Cause of death? Funeral date/arrangements? Any protests in favor or against? Reaction from the current political leadership? International? etc... --IP98 (talk) 17:40, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Looks good now. Ready? --IP98 (talk) 20:16, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Comment I have expanded the section a bit. There's not much to say about the death itself: he simply died while sleeping. The info is more in the side of the reactions to his death. Cambalachero (talk) 18:19, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Agreed, marked as ready, and I support its promotion to RD. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:18, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Support, dying in prison is interesting. Abductive (reasoning) 21:18, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Came here to check on this. Made a few grammatical edits. Totally ready and support as full blurb the infamous deathLihaas (talk) 21:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Posted. Spencer 21:59, 17 May 2013 (UTC) The article is not linked in the template... --IP98 (talk) 22:02, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Woops now fixed. Spencer 22:06, 17 May 2013 (UTC) I support a full blurb, let alone an RD uptade. Am I in the minority here? Kurtis 22:40, 17 May 2013 (UTC) I oppose full blurb. He was long out of power, had been tried, convicted and was in prison. His natural death does not in any way impact the future of Argentina. His death is noteworthy, and belongs on RD. --IP98 (talk) 22:48, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Well yes, but the fact remains that he was a significant figure during Cold War era Argentina. His regime was considered one of the world's most brutal, alongside those of North Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, Equatorial Guinea, Uganda, Somalia, Nicaragua, Albania, Ethiopia, etc. Kurtis 01:46, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Don't go to the extremes, his rule may have been brutal, but "the world's most brutal" is for people like Hitler, Mussolini or Stalin. As for a full blurb, I'm not sure. IP98 is right, as of 2013 Videla was just a man who played a role in a historical period of Argentina, but not an active actor of the day-to-day politics. His death will generate comments by noteworthy people, but nothing else, his death does not change anything in the current politics of Argentina. This is completely unlike the death of Néstor Kirchner, who was not a sitting head of state either when he died, but he was highly influential, and his death became a turning point in the administration of Cristina Kirchner: in that case, the blurb was justified. I think in an article "Death of Jorge Rafael Videla", and I really can't think of anything interesting to write about that. Cambalachero (talk) 03:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC) He was directly responsible for killing tens of thousands, Cambalachero. At the time of his presidency (mid-to-late 1970s), Argentina was among the world's worst violators of human rights — perhaps eclipsed only by North Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, Equatorial Guinea, Uganda, and Ethiopia. No, he's obviously no Hitler or Stalin, but he was still very brutal. Kurtis 06:18, 18 May 2013 (UTC) That's not the point. Yes, from a historical point of view, he's very notable, but from a "in the news" point of view, he has long left the political life of the country. Check the latest news of Argentina (18A cacerolazo, the Lázaro Baez embezzlement scandal, the floods, Kirchner's bills to control the judiciary, her projects to expropiate newspapers, the decree of Macri against that, the "CEDIN", etc.), Videla is not even remotely related to any of them. All those other news will continue their development without any influence from Videla's death. Cambalachero (talk) 13:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC) May 16 Portal:Current events/2013 May 16 May 16, 2013 (2013-05-16) (Thursday) edit history watch Armed conflict and attacks War in Afghanistan (2001–2021): Many people are killed in two suicide bombings in Afghanistan, at least fifteen of which are killed in the capital Kabul when a suicide bomber from Hizb-i-Islami, a Taliban affiliate, targeted a convoy carrying foreign troops, injuring another 40. (Xinhua) (NBC) Iraqi insurgency (post-U.S. withdrawal): Seventeen people are killed when car bombs detonate and gunman attack people in Baghdad, Iraq. (AP via USA Today) Suspected militants abduct six security personnel in the Sinai Peninsula, Egypt. (AP via Bloomberg) Nigerian Sharia conflict: The Nigerian military imposes a dusk to dawn curfew in Adamawa State. (Xinhua) Arts and culture The American adaptation of the television series The Office airs its last episode on the National Broadcasting Company after nine seasons. (Reuters) British author Jenny Colgan wins the 2013 Romantic Novel of the Year Award for her book Welcome to Rosie Hopkins' Sweetshop of Dreams. (BBC) A topless painting of actress Bea Arthur sells for US$2 million at auction. (New York Post) Business and economy Bill Gates becomes the world's richest person for the first time since 2007 with a fortune of approximately $72.7 billion. (abcnews) The Venezuelan government attempts to put an end to a toilet paper shortage. (The Guardian) Disasters and accidents A shoe factory collapses in Cambodia, killing three. (Reuters) A plane crashes while attempting to land on a mountain airstrip in northern Nepal, injuring all 21 passengers. (The Washington Post) International relations The Secretary of the Supreme National Security Council of Iran, Saeed Jalili, reiterates that Iran will never give up its right to use nuclear energy for peaceful means, but it will not seek nuclear weapons. (Xinhua) The United States announces new sanctions against the Syrian government. (Los Angeles Times) Pope Francis calls for worldwide "financial reform along ethical lines" to fight the "tyranny financial speculation". (Irish Times) Law and crime Two brothers are arrested in connection with the Mother’s Day parade shooting that wounded 20 in New Orleans. (The Washington Post) (AFP via News24) Science and technology Rolf Wolff, president of the Stockholm School of Economics, is fired amidst a scandal where he promoted a convicted insider trader for a top position at the university and allegedly he lied about his academic credentials. (Dagens industri) (Dagens Nyheter) Water dating back 2.6 billion years, by far the oldest ever found, is discovered in a Canadian mine. (Fox News) A study suggests that marijuana may improve blood sugar by decreasing insulin resistance. (Healthline) Sports In association football, midfielder David Beckham announces his retirement effective at season's end, a decision that came days after he won the Ligue 1 title with his last club, Paris Saint-Germain. (CNN) Former NASCAR driver Dick Trickle dies at age 71 from an apparent suicide. (Fox Sports) RD: Dick Trickle No consensus to post. Spencer 20:59, 18 May 2013 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Article: Dick Trickle (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) News source(s): CNN, ESPN Credits: Nominated by Andise1 (talk · give credit) Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: He was a well known former NASCAR driver who died from committing suicide. Andise1 (talk) 23:27, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Weak oppose I rarely, if ever, oppose anything, as I think that we're far too elitist around here in enforcing our own opinions of what should be important to the world at large, but in this case, I can't see this being up to RD standards. Broadly, Trickle was famous mainly for his double-entendre name, he was a marginal NASCAR driver who raced mainly in the lower circuits, a minor league driver who won NASCAR's rookie-of-the-year in 1988 at age 48. His never finished higher than 3rd place on any regular Winston Cup (now Sprint Cup) race, the senior NASCAR circuit. He became a bit of a "meme" in the 1990s for his funny name, especially with the late-nite ESPN SportsCenter crew who never gave up the opportunity to say his name on the air; but that's all he was. I would not really object strongly to this getting posted, but in general, based on the standards most people hold at this desk, I can't see anyone else supporting this, and I hope I have laid out the case why people may object to posting this. His death is sad and tragic, given its circumstances, but he's a marginal figure in his field whose greatest claim to fame is a funny-sounding name. --Jayron32 00:14, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Weak oppose. Doesn't meet the criteria. He was not near the top of his field; while he was successful in lower levels of racing, that didn't translate to success in higher levels, nor do I see any evidence of some other significant influence in auto racing. While his unfortunate death was tragic and sudden, that is not enough in and of itself to be posted. Like IP98 it won't really bother me if this is posted, but I can't support it. 331dot (talk) 00:29, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose If we include this person then we should include Paul Shane because he was a well known actor (in a single country) and well liked. In my opinion neither are notable enough, if they were a well known head of states or religious leaders for example I would support it. --wintonian 01:23, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Comment has Paul Shane been nominated? Trickle's article says he was "bllied as" the winningest short track racer in history. I have no idea what hat means, or why he would be billed that way, instead of actually being such. Clarification would help. μηδείς (talk) 01:49, 17 May 2013 (UTC) He would be described that way because an awful lot of what comes out of industries like that is marketing hype rather than reality. HiLo48 (talk) 02:00, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Being the winningest short-track driver of all time is not unlike being the minor league baseball homerun champion. It means you're really good against mediocre competition. Short track driving is minor league driving for the most part, as the small towns that support lower-tier stock car tracks couldn't afford to build and maintain a large tri-oval like Talledega or Daytona. It should be noted that his so-called "short track success" in the lower levels did not translate similarly to the Winston Cup, which has always featured several short tracks. Just as an example from the 1990 NASCAR Winston Cup Series, which was during Trickle's era, when he would have run a full season at the top circuit, there were seven races run on "short tracks", defined as less than 1 mile in length. Richmond twice, Bristol twice, North Wilkesboro twice, and Martinsville. I picked that season because Trickle took his highest finish that year, a third place at Dover Downs, a race track that he started from the Pole; Dover is not a "short track". Among the short track races on the calendar that year, Trickle's best finish was 5th at the Pontiac Excitement 400, the first Richmond race. He did win the Winston Open that year, which is a non-points race, and it's also not on a short track. So, even the claim that he was the best short track racer doesn't hold up against the evidence, because when he raced on short tracks against top level competition, he didn't hold up to the hype. No, he's maybe the best minor league racer of all time. That's not much to hang one's hat on. His death is also not being covered heavily as it was with Joyce Brothers below, who was the subject of long obits in print sources and televised retrospectives. All I've seen is very short blurbs about Trickle's death. So, unlike Joyce Brothers below, this can't even be claimed to be "in the news". --Jayron32 02:29, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Comment Is winningest even a word? If not I suggest we don't use it in any blurb that my be considered. --wintonian 02:46, 17 May 2013 (UTC) For 31 years it has been. It is a bit of an Americanism, as OED notes its as a North American informal usage, but its a common enough word that many American sources use it; sports journalism uses it all the time. In other English varieties, it may not be, but Misplaced Pages does not give a preference to one variety of English over another. --Jayron32 03:02, 17 May 2013 (UTC) In that case I suggest it's use is either wikilinked to somewhere or avoided, so those of use that use the Queens English as well as possibly a few Aussies etc. aren't left scratching our heads. But it's probably a moot point by the looks of things. --wintonian 03:30, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Even though this nomination most likely won't succeed, "winningest" is still in his article. Do we care if it's crap? HiLo48 (talk) 03:38, 17 May 2013 (UTC) The word "winningest" isn't any more crap than "petrol" is for what Americans call "gasoline". It's a valid recognized word in a national variety of English. Just because it isn't your variety of English isn't important, a factor which is enshrined in Misplaced Pages policy, which clearly states that Misplaced Pages does not itself recognize any one variety of English as superior to any other. --Jayron32 03:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Absolutely true, but we have a global audience. If parochial words are used we really should try to explain them to the world. If we don't have to, then strewth, we Aussies can go the whole hog with jargon in our articles, can't we? Australian usage everywhere. You beauty! HiLo48 (talk) 03:49, 17 May 2013 (UTC) No, it's not that we favor one usage everywhere, we use American English on American topics, British English for British Topics, Australian English for Australian topics, Indian English for Indian topics, etc. No one of those is "parochial". Different =/= worse. --Jayron32 03:58, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Gee, I think I've just proven (without trying that hard) that there are big linguistic differences between us. Jayron - I think we're really in furious agreement here on the basic principle. Maybe we just have different understandings of parochial. HiLo48 (talk) 04:02, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Perhaps. I don't define "parochial" as "Common and frequently used words from varieties of English other than my own". That's how I interpret the context of your usage. Perhaps parochial is one of those words with different meanings in different varieties of English... --Jayron32 04:06, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Using an American word in an article about an American is not "crap" it is the normal, consensus backed thing to do, just as using British words in articles about British subjects. See WP:ENGVAR. (Also, I am sure the meaning of winningest is obvious to any native English speaker even if it looks like a non-word to them) --ThaddeusB (talk) 03:45, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Misunderstanding there. My use of "crap" was to refer to the whole article. Irrespective of whose English it's written in, it ain't a great article. HiLo48 (talk) 03:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Fair enough, that may well be an accurate assessment of the article. --ThaddeusB (talk) 03:53, 17 May 2013 (UTC) (edit conflict × 2) I was thinking about it's inclusion in any blurb on the main page rather than the article. In any case it's a North American type article so American English should be used there. --wintonian 03:47, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose he just doesn't seem notable enough. Hot Stop 03:18, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose Jayron hit the nail on the head- this would be like posting the minor league home run king. In fact, he would be closer to the A-ball home run king than AAA. Or, in more WP terms, he simply lacked the sufficient notability in regards to being a top-level athlete. -- Mike (Kicking222) 16:00, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose not top of the game, not award-winning, although would love the debate over "winningest" (which is frankly the most abhorrent misuse of English I've ever seen). The Rambling Man (talk) 21:25, 17 May 2013 (UTC) This twee winningest whingeing is naff. μηδείς (talk) 21:03, 18 May 2013 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Cyclone Mahasen Article: Cyclone Mahasen (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Cyclone Mahasen strikes Bangladesh, killing 14 people there, after leaving at least 79 casualties across five other counties in Southern and Southeastern Asia. (Post) Alternative blurb: ​ Cyclone Mahasen causes significant damage in Southern and Southeastern Asia and Bangledesh, resulting in over X deaths. News source(s): CNN, Reuters, The Washington Post, Wall Street Journal Credits: Updated and nominated by Cyclonebiskit (talk · give credit) Updated by Tatiraju.rishabh (talk · give credit) Article updatedNominator's comments: Significant meteorological event in the Bay of Bengal that has resulted in widespread damage and loss of life. Six countries have reported fatalities, with 58 Myanmar occurring in Myanmar. I would appreciate a better blurb from someone though, I'm having trouble trying to phrase the information properly. --Cyclonebiskit (talk) 16:28, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Support why not? YE 16:34, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Support The storm has been in global news for quite a time now, and seeing the damage it has caused within a span of six days, it deserves an ITN. Rishabh Tatiraju (talk) 16:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC) On second thoughts, i think an alternative image can be used. The current image shows the storm when it was weakening. We can consider adding the image taken on May 13, it has a stronger look. Rishabh Tatiraju (talk) 16:45, 16 May 2013 (UTC) I think the May 16 one would have more relevance to the situation rather than an older one, despite the weakening. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 16:50, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Agreed. Rishabh Tatiraju (talk) 17:31, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Support - This has received a lot of coverage, and is a fairly destructive cyclone. AlexTiefling (talk) 17:01, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Support as per Alex. --LukeSurl 17:11, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Support: Very important and unfortunate event. Just now, I was reading about it in an online newspaper, it seems it is getting lots of media coverages. --Tito Dutta (contact) 17:13, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Support has been on the BBC tickertape and is clearly significant. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:24, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Note - Updated to note that deaths in Bangladesh are now up to 14. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 17:30, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Comment it may not be necessary, but the lead is totally unsourced. --IP98 (talk) 17:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Usually only an issue if the the fact you're looking at is only noted in the lead and not referenced in the main body of the article, after all the lead is supposed to be a "summary" of the article, and not contain anything that isn't expanded upon in the main body. Can you be more specific about your sourcing concerns? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:02, 16 May 2013 (UTC) It's fine, no claims which aren't covered in the body. Just stood out as a block of text with nothing inside super tags. --IP98 (talk) 20:08, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Pretty much every recent featured article follows the same approach. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:14, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Support significant flooding in Sumatra, 30,000 forced to evacuate. Is there any value in waiting until the storm dissipates? --IP98 (talk) 18:01, 16 May 2013 (UTC) The storm itself is on the verge of dissipating so its impacts will end within a day. Only changes coming will likely be more detailed damage reports and casualty updates. Nothing big worth waiting for basically - I suggested this for today since it made landfall today. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 18:10, 16 May 2013 (UTC) JTWC has posted its final warning, and so did RSMC New Delhi. IMD CWIND is still tracking the storm as a Deep Depression. I just had a look at the satellite imagery, and I believe the storm has dissipated. Rishabh Tatiraju (talk) 18:20, 16 May 2013 (UTC) I prefer the altblurb. The main one is a bit weird in that it gives more weight to 14 deaths than the previous 79. The multiple-day damage of the storm is what is notable, not just the last 24 hours. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:49, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Yep, altblurb for me too. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Posted altblurb. --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:53, 17 May 2013 (UTC) Spot-fixing in the Indian Premier League No consensus to post at this time. Spencer 04:23, 18 May 2013 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Article: 2013 Indian Premier League (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Delhi Police arrests three cricketers playing in the 2013 Indian Premier League on the charges of spot-fixing. (Post) News source(s): Wall Street Journal, Times of India, AFP Credits: Nominated by Vibhijain (talk · give credit) Article needs updatingNominator's comments: Top news in India and Cricketing world --♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ 09:54, 16 May 2013 (UTC) *Support. I know little of the cricket world, but I know it is very popular in India and this is likely a big story there- and I would support such a story if it was about a sport I was more familiar with (NFL football, baseball) so I see no reason to not do the same here. Seems to be getting some international coverage (WSJ). 331dot (talk) 10:02, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose - Serious case, and worth reporting. But we can't keep reporting arrests (how would it look if we treated Operation Yewtree or Operation Elveden in this way? Let's wait for trial and verdict. AlexTiefling (talk) 10:05, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose and wait per AlexTiefling. A previous cricket spot fixing scandal discussion is here. --IP98 (talk) 10:15, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Yes, I think that's the right approach. HiLo48 (talk) 10:17, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Change to wait for conviction per precedent. 331dot (talk) 10:20, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose wait until they're found guilty. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:47, 16 May 2013 (UTC) If they're found guilty... Lugnuts 18:07, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Nope. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:17, 16 May 2013 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Sanjay Dutt surrenders to Mumbai Police No consensus to post at this time. Spencer 04:23, 18 May 2013 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Article: Sanjay Dutt (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Sanjay Dutt who was sentenced for five years' imprisonment for illegal possession of arms during 1993 Bombay bombings is going to surrender to Mumbai police today. (Post) Alternative blurb: ​ Sanjay Dutt who was sentenced for five years' imprisonment for illegal possession of arms during 1993 Bombay bombings has surrendered to Mumbai police. News source(s): Indian Express, NDTV Credits: Nominated by Titodutta (talk · give credit) Nominator's comments: Sanjay Dutt's mercy plea has been rejected and he is going to surrender to Mumbai Police today (most probably within next 2 hours). --Tito Dutta (contact) 09:25, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose - Let's wait for trial and verdict, as usual. AlexTiefling (talk) 09:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Oh, there's already been the trial and verdict; I still oppose. AlexTiefling (talk) 09:34, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Trial, verdict, mercy plea to the Supreme Court, rejection— these have been done. He is going to surrender today for three and a half year's imprisonment. And, just for information, Sanjay Dutt is one of the most popular film actors of India, and politician too! This has created lots of stir in India. I know who Sanjay Dutt is. I'm just concerned that this is a late act of a drama that I think we've already covered. AlexTiefling (talk) 09:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose. If I understand this correctly, he has simply been exercising legal avenues to appeal his case, which has stalled the start of his sentence. Maybe there is, but I currently don't see much of a difference between this and posting every move about Lindsay Lohan's legal problems. 331dot (talk) 09:51, 16 May 2013 (UTC) It's obviously a more serious case than Lohan's, and Dutt is by far a more prominent celebrity than Lohan. I also understand that he's effectively been conducting his appeals while in hiding from an outstanding warrant. Even so, this not the pivotal part of this case - that's been and gone. This is more a denouement. AlexTiefling (talk) 09:54, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Don't know if he is exercising legal avenues to appeal his case, but, today he is going to jail for sure. The latest update of Times of India says he has reached the jail and going to surrender within half an hour so (the news article published half an hour ago, so, don't know current status). It also shows how seriously the best newspapers of India covering the events of today. Wait 1—2 hour, you'll get another Times of India update with more updates (he has been taken to jail most probably) --Tito Dutta (contact) 10:16, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose this isn't in the news in any major outlet I read, and it's a hypothetical. Can we close this and re-start a new nom if something actually happens? It would also be useful to prefix Sanjay Dutt with "Indian actor and producer" or something to give the rest of the world some context. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. May 15 Portal:Current events/2013 May 15 May 15, 2013 (2013-05-15) (Wednesday) edit history watch Armed conflicts and attacks Iraqi insurgency (post-U.S. withdrawal): Gunmen using silenced weapons attack at least nine alcohol stores in western Baghdad, killing twelve people. (Al Jazeera) Thirty-five people, including three police officers, are killed in bomb attacks in Shi'ite sections of Baghdad and parts of northern Iraq. (Reuters) Syrian civil war: Rebel fighters launch a massive assault on a prison in Syria's northern city of Aleppo. (BBC) A rebel attack on army positions in the eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo town of Beni leaves at least 31 people dead, including 23 Mai Mai and three FARDC troops. (Reuters) Arts and culture American graphic designer Richard Swanson dies after being struck by a pickup truck in Oregon while attempting to dribble a soccer ball all the way to Brazil to raise money for charity. (AP via National Public Radio) The 2013 Cannes Film Festival opens with a showing of The Great Gatsby. (Guardian) Plans for a £200m fifteen year expansion of Britain's Pinewood Studios are turned down by the local authority that oversees the area where the studios are situated. (BBC) Business and economy A man who found what he believes to be the secret recipe for Coca-Cola at an estate sale sells the instructions on eBay for $15 million. (Time)(EBAY) The Eurozone records its sixth straight quarter of recession with France, Italy and Spain all recording negative growth and Germany growing weakly. (BBC)(News Limited) The Bank of England upgrades its forecast for the UK economy, and says that inflation will fall faster than previously predicted. (BBC) Disasters and accidents Authorities in Myanmar and Bangladesh prepare for the arrival of Cyclone Mahasen, which has already killed at least seven people and displaced nearly 4,000 in Sri Lanka. (Reuters) A tornado hits Granbury, Texas, United States, killing several people and injuring at least 100. (CNN) Law and crime The jury in the U.S. state of Arizona that convicted Jodi Arias of first-degree murder last week quickly decide that she should either face the death penalty or life in prison without parole during the penalty phase of trial. (NBC) According to the U.S. ATF, no evidence has yet been found that a bomb blast was responsible for the April West Fertilizer Company explosion that killed fifteen people in West, Texas. (NBC) International relations China, India, and four other nations join the Arctic Council with observer status. (The New York Times) The United Nations General Assembly passes a resolution condemning the Syrian government for human rights violations. (AlJazeera) Politics and elections Steven Miller, the acting commissioner of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service, resigns amidst pressure from the fallout surrounding the agency's targeting of Tea Party groups. (Los Angeles Times) In the United Kingdom House of Commons, an amendment to last Wednesday's Queen's Speech expressing regret that it did not contain legislation for a referendum on EU membership is defeated 277–131. (BBC) Science and technology In a study published in Nature, University of Oregon researchers describe the first creation of human embryonic stem cells by cloning. (Nature) NASA's Kepler telescope suffers a critical hardware failure, possibly putting an end to its planet hunting mission. (Discovery News) New fossils provide evidence on the evolutionary split between apes and monkeys. (Design & Trend) New evidence suggests that Mount Everest's glaciers are melting. (NBC News) Scientists release pictures of what they believe the lost city of la Ciudad Blanca in La Mosquitia, Honduras.(NBC News) A new study finds that the white blood cell levels in men decrease faster during aging than in women, possibly providing one clue as to why women have longer average lifespans. (Telegraph) Sports The NBA's Board of Governors votes against allowing the Sacramento Kings basketball franchise to move to Seattle. (ABC News) In horse racing, Orb draws the rail for the Preakness Stakes. (ABC News) In association football, Chelsea wins the UEFA Europa League after beating Benfica 2–1. (BBC) Game over for Kepler? Article: Kepler (spacecraft) (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ The Kepler mission suffers a catastrophic equipment failure. (Post) News source(s): CNN New York Times Credits: Nominated by Count Iblis (talk · give credit) Updated by Jusdafax (talk · give credit) Article updatedNominator's comments: Standing by to see if the mission is officially over (Jusdafax). Jusdafax 04:00, 16 May 2013 (UTC) The linked article says that it's "in trouble" and other phrases saying that the mission is not yet over. Might there be an official "mission end" date if all options run out? Spencer 01:35, 16 May 2013 (UTC) I helped format this so it would be a proper ITN candidate, but am not ready to support until there is more information on the mission's possible end. That announcement could come very soon however. Jusdafax 04:00, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Seems it will still be able to do some science, but not the planet-hunting for which it has made headlines. --LukeSurl 12:15, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Wait. The fat lady is not yet singing. It's down, but not out. If and when the mission is officially terminated, then we can think about posting it. Also. the blurb is misleading: there's nothing 'catastrophic' about a reaction wheel wearing out, after longer than the designed mission lifetime. Modest Genius 12:18, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose and renominate if/when it actually happens. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:26, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Europa League No consensus to post. Spencer 04:24, 18 May 2013 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Articles: 2013 UEFA Europa League Final (talk · history · tag) and 2012–13 UEFA Europa League (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ In association football, Chelsea wins the UEFA Europa League after beating Benfica 2–1. (Post) News source(s): BBC Credits: Nominated by HonorTheKing (talk · give credit) Both articles updatedNominator's comments: Second highest football trophy in Europe.    – HonorTheKing (talk) 20:49, 15 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose A look at the list confirms that the UEFA Europa League is not ITN/R. I see no reason to post a second-tier continental club competition. Neljack (talk) 21:31, 15 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose To all intents and purposes, this is the plate competition. Chelsea "qualified" by failing to reach the last 16 of the main tournament. Kevin McE (talk) 22:25, 15 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose This is not the top club competition in the sport and it's impossible to support it even if this is football and there is a good media coverage. Chelsea are not certain to play next year and defend the title if they qualify to the higher ranked UEFA Champions League.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:50, 15 May 2013 (UTC) Note the only reason why this is actually more notable than the run-of-the-mill winners in lower tier competitions, is that this makes Chelsea only the 4th team to win all the three major EUFA competitions: List of UEFA club competition winners. Nergaal (talk) 22:58, 15 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose The Champions League Final is in 10 days time, and that is ITN/R. The Europa League is 2nd tier to that, especially as many of the competitors (including the winners) are only in it because they've been knocked out of the Champions League. Black Kite (talk) 23:05, 15 May 2013 (UTC) Strong oppose. This is a booby prize competition for teams who weren't good enough to enter / stay in the Champions League. We'll post that, but not this. Modest Genius 23:45, 15 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose. Would be like posting the Calder Cup or Eastern League winners. 331dot (talk) 00:19, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Actually, no. The Europa League is an international tournament. But I still oppose this nomination. ComputerJA (talk) 07:35, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Point taken(though the Calder Cup involves Canadian and US teams); though my point was that those are second-tier tournaments. 331dot (talk) 09:25, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Is Europe even "international" anymore? I'm having a harder and harder time sewing the "international importance" patch on to European stories. --IP98 (talk) 10:21, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Yes, Europe is a continent that consists of more than 50 countries, which demonstrates a very good example of something international. Unfortunately, many people from the United States define Europe same as the United States, which is completely false, and equalise a whole continent with a single country on another continent. Given all the relevant information related to the UEFA Europa League, I'd say that its importance and popularity are equal or slightly greater than the NCAA in North America.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:46, 16 May 2013 (UTC) No comparison to the USA here, or the NCAA. With unified currency, trade, border security, (somewhat) judicial, agricultural and environmental policies (to name a few); and with ITN posting numerous EU actions (ban on pesticides for example), personally I refuse to acknowledge the UEFA as "international". I'm technically wrong. Fine. I don't care. This type of tight multi-national cooperation does not exist anywhere else in the world. --IP98 (talk) 18:05, 16 May 2013 (UTC) No, you're wrong. I live in a European country with borders, trade barriers, different currency, and separate institutions compared to the other European countries. Please don't confuse Europe with the European Union. The UEFA Europa League is a competition for clubs from Europe, not particularly from the European Union. Thus it's an "international" competition.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:56, 16 May 2013 (UTC) It's clear the Chinese are not the only people IP98 has a dislike for. Also oppose - not notable enough in the sporting world.--82.8.226.105 (talk) 19:05, 16 May 2013 (UTC) I dislike the Chinese government. No problem w/Europe. --IP98 (talk) 20:22, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Can you explain how that's relevant to this discussion? If not, please remove it entirely and don't do it again. You are entitled to your personal opinions about China, but this is not the correct forum for you to express it. And I'm certain that not all Chinese people are "facist baby butchers". If you want to continue contributing to Misplaced Pages, please exercise some self-control. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:31, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Is the 82.8's comment relevant? Clearly it is not and its personal for no reason. Perhaps all parties, not just IP98, should do a better job exercising self-control. Personally, I am sick of all the off-topic banter that seems to enter every thread these days. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:00, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose as per the 2nd-tier arguments above. --LukeSurl 09:57, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose as not the pinnacle of the game in Europe, but note to some editors above, Europe is "international" as it has vast swaths of different cultures, languages, currencies, political and religious affiliations. Attempting to assert otherwise is absurd. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:26, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Someone should tell Daniel Hannan  :) (and yes I recognize there is a difference between the EU member states and Europe the continent). --IP98 (talk) 20:22, 16 May 2013 (UTC) And now please explain what relevance that has to this nomination for ITN of the Europa League final? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:32, 16 May 2013 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. May 14 Portal:Current events/2013 May 14 May 14, 2013 (2013-05-14) (Tuesday) edit history watch Armed conflicts and attacks War in Afghanistan (2001–2021): The Taliban kills four US soldiers in Kandahar Province, Afghanistan. (BBC) Nigerian Sharia conflict: The President of Nigeria, Goodluck Jonathan, declares a state of emergency in Adamawa, Borno and Yobe to fight an Islamist insurgency. (AP via Houston Chronicle) Arts and culture American actress Angelina Jolie announces that she underwent an elective double mastectomy due to her family history of lethal cases of breast cancer. (USA Today) Business and economy Greek civil servants hold a 24-hour strike after the government proposes to use emergency powers to stop striking teachers from disrupting university exams. (AP via ABC) Disasters and accidents Due to dehydration and exhaustion, Beyoncé cancels night one of what was to be two consecutive nights performing in Antwerp, Belgium, on the Mrs. Carter Show World Tour; reschedules it to May 31, 2013. A tunnel collapses at Freeport-McMoRan’s Grasberg mine in Indonesia's Papua province trapping approximately thirty workers. (AFP via Inquirer) Several boats carrying over 100 Rohingya Muslims away from an oncoming cyclone capsize off the coast of Myanmar leaving only 42 survivors. (Wall Street Journal) Law and crime An alleged CIA agent is arrested in Moscow for trying to recruit a Russian intelligence officer. (BBC), (Sky News) The United States fines the Indian pharmaceutical company Ranbaxy Laboratories US$500 million after they are found guilty of selling adulterated drugs to the United States. (AFP via Google News) Convicted murderer, abortion physician Kermit Gosnell, in a plea bargain, trades away his appeals in exchange for a life sentence without the possibility of parole. (CNN) The U.S. Internal Revenue Service admits that it targeted certain classes of conservative groups (mainly those who had the words "Tea Party", "Patriot", and other related words in their titles) for special scrutiny. (FOX News) Politics and elections Voters in Canada's British Columbia Province go to the polls to select members to the province's Legislative Assembly. (CTV News) Former President of the Philippines Joseph Estrada is declared as the winner of the mayoral election in the capital Manila. (AP via Brooklyn News 12) The British Conservative Party publishes a draft European Union (Referendum) Bill aimed at holding a referendum on Britain's membership of the European Union by 2017. (BBC) Kenyan protestors release dozens of pigs in front of parliament to protest perceived greed. (AFP via Google News) Brazil becomes the fifteenth country to legalise same-sex marriage. (Huffington Post) Science and technology A Soyuz capsule carrying astronauts Chris Hadfield of Canada, Thomas Marshburn of the United States and Roman Romanenko of Russia of Expedition 35 back from the International Space Station lands safely in Kazakhstan. (Herald-Sun) Chinese mathematician Yitang Zhang proves that there are infinitely many pairs of prime numbers that differ by 70 million or less. This proof is a breakthrough in proving that there are infinitely many twin primes, one of the oldest unsolved problems in mathematics. (Scientific American) Same-sex marriage in Brazil Consensus not to post. --LukeSurl 18:08, 16 May 2013 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Article: Same-sex marriage in Brazil (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ A ruling by the Brazillian National Justice Council declares same-sex marriage legal in the country. (Post) News source(s): AFP Credits: Nominated by LukeSurl (talk · give credit) Nominator's comments: Not posting the equivalent story for France has been considered by some as being a poor decision in retrospect. Brazil is bigger than France anyhow, --LukeSurl 10:26, 15 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose From the article, it was not only never illegal, but had been performed over the last two years. This decision forces all notaries to perform same sex marriage, but thay have been able to for a while. Secondly, the order must be appealed by the Supreme Court, so surely the point where the appeal is dismissed would be the time to post in any case. MChesterMC (talk) 11:02, 15 May 2013 (UTC) Weak oppose. This is different than the France situation; this is not a ban being overturned, merely an interpretation of existing law. 331dot (talk) 11:19, 15 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose As far as I can tell, this Brazil-related story is getting far more coverage. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:38, 15 May 2013 (UTC) Support Seems to be getting quite widespread international coverage, and obviously a very large country. Neljack (talk) 21:35, 15 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose These stories have ceased to present any meaningful threshold. It is a minor, and no longer novel, change in internal legislation that is gradually rolling out across the world. There is no merit in spotlighting every step in the journey. Kevin McE (talk) 22:29, 15 May 2013 (UTC) It's so minor that groups on each side around the world engage in massive protests(on some occasions violent) and spend large sums of money to persuade people to support them. The pro side is still a minority view. I oppose posting this story as it does not overturn a ban, but this isn't minor or novel. 331dot (talk) 00:24, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Weak oppose - Perhaps I am in the minority, but I couldn't be less interested in a different gay marriage story every other week. I realize that this is the hip and trendy cause du jour at the moment, but as Kevin McE says, the novelty has largely worn off. --Bongwarrior (talk) 22:44, 15 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose Not a final court decision (this can be appealed), and unless there are extensive violent protests, this really isn't that notable. Spencer 01:37, 16 May 2013 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. RD: Asghar Ali Engineer Article: Asghar Ali Engineer (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) News source(s): Times of India Times of India 2 Credits: Nominated by LukeSurl (talk · give credit) Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: Saw this on Deaths in 2013. Can't say I've heard of him before, but from a read of the article it looks like he may have been as a significant a figure in his culture as persons we have posted before have been in Western culture. This might be a good exercise for us in assessing the notability of such a person. --LukeSurl 20:17, 14 May 2013 (UTC) Support. From reading the article, this man seems to be recognized and a leader in his field, and has recognition internationally. 331dot (talk) 20:20, 14 May 2013 (UTC) Comment not updated at all, but as Luke suggests, a good test. Please note there's a discussion ongoing about the recent deaths nominations at the talk page. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:28, 14 May 2013 (UTC) The beliefs on women's rights section is terribly written and should probably be scrapped in its entirety. However should be a very good source for constructing a section on Engineer's theology. LukeSurl 20:48, 14 May 2013 (UTC) Support - I also had not heard of this man, but appears to be significant and internationally noted. Agree that article could use more work, but it appears to fairly acceptable. Jusdafax 23:46, 14 May 2013 (UTC) Withholding support pending update and cleanup. Seems like something that would be of interest to our readers, a notable person, however as yet the article has no information on his death, not even a single sentence saying that he died, or how or where he died, there's simply a death date in the first sentence. Also, there's an orange tag that needs cleaning up. Otherwise, I would not object to a suitably updated and cleaned up article appearing in the RD section. --Jayron32 00:10, 15 May 2013 (UTC) Comment I'm finding it difficult to determine how much impact he had: was he so much out of the Islamic mainstream that he had relatively little influence, or did he have a significant impact among the wider Muslim community as a progressive voice? Without knowing that, it's hard to know whether he was widely regarded as a very important figure in his field (presumably Islamic theology?). Neljack (talk) 01:56, 15 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose, doesn't seem to have notability outside of India, plus can't support an article in that condition. Wizardman 16:40, 15 May 2013 (UTC) The condition of the article may well be a serious issue; but I think the proposal is on the basis of the subject's notability inside the world's second-most-populous country. AlexTiefling (talk) 17:02, 15 May 2013 (UTC) India might be the worlds second-most-populous country, but with only 10% of that population online and 12% of that population speaking English, I don't think the English Misplaced Pages needs to heap support on every cricket/building/bus crash/death story from the region just yet. --IP98 (talk) 10:27, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Stop me if you've heard this before, but this is Misplaced Pages in English, not Misplaced Pages of the Anglosphere. Whether or not the people affected by an event speak English should have as little effect as possible on what we report. We're already hampered by the lack of English sources for many things; let's not prejudice matters further. AlexTiefling (talk) 00:36, 17 May 2013 (UTC) I actually hadn't heard that before, and it's a valid point. I do believe that when the size of a country is invoked, the number of potential English Misplaced Pages readers is worth considering. --IP98 (talk) 20:57, 19 May 2013 (UTC) Oppose if ITN/DC #2 still stands. Unfortunately the Progressive Dawoodi Bohra movement doesn't appear big enough for it's founder to get a pass on that category. It's too bad, the orange tag not withstanding the article is ok, the subject seems to have been a prolific writer, and the subject might have interested WP readers. --IP98 (talk) 10:29, 16 May 2013 (UTC) References Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process. For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents: