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Other Translations?
Translations I have heard for the word "Götterdämmerung" include:
Explanations for these very different translations can be found on the above Google links. I would love to see a section in the article breaking down these various translations, their accuracies, and their sources. --4.65.244.206 18:02, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Perhaps you should note that Twighlight of the Idols is also occasionally used (particularly appropriate for comparisons with Nietzsche).
(Comment by reader: Nietzsche's use of the the title "Twilight of the Idols" was an intentional mocking of Wagner's title, and was understood as such by both at the time. So any use of this translation for the opera is merely a mistake. See Nietzsche's "Nietzsche Contra Wagner" or any into to his "Twilight". The actual German for Nietzsche's book title is different: Götzen-Dämmerung.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.191.160 (talk) 18:15, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
You're above translation includes opposites "Dawn" and "Dusk" (Twilight). This is appropriate to the German dämmerung which may be either according to the prefix (Morgendämmerung and Abenddämmerung respectively). Wagner clearly intended it as Dusk or Twilight, when one assesses the content of the opera - so I am not sure Dawn of the Gods is appropriate...--OldakQuill 14:05, 16 May 2004 (UTC)
- As far as the opera is concerned, I've never heard it translated as anything other than "Twilight of the Gods". --Camembert
Final Performance
The final perfomance before the fall of Berlin in WWII by the Berliner Philharmoniker on April 12th 1945 was the finale from Gotterdammerung, as it was felt to be entirely fit for the situation, should this be mentioned in the "Notes" section?
- Only if it can be verified by a source. Do you have a source for it? --Alexs letterbox 01:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Albert Speer "Inside The Third Reich"
- Then by all means add it, citing that book using Misplaced Pages:Footnotes. --Alexs letterbox 08:27, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
- Do we really want to declare Albert Speer a "reliable source"? --OliverH 11:53, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
- You got something to suggest that he isn't? 74.140.211.161 14:45, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
- Do we really want to declare Albert Speer a "reliable source"? --OliverH 11:53, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
- A vivid description of this event is to be found in Cornelius's Ryan's epic of the fall of Berlin The Last Battle. The performance of the piece was the signal from the conductor that the orchestra members should abandon the city immediately after the performance was completed.RM Gillespie (talk) 23:11, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Removal of Trivia
I have removed:
At War With The Mystics, the eleventh album by American rock band The Flaming Lips, features a track entitled "Pompeii am Götterdämmerung".
As it appears to have nothing to do with the opera (as well as being irrelevant). --Alexs letterbox 23:27, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
I concur heartily; we don't want trivial pop/rock connections to major operas! --Allansteel 03:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- But at the same time, the title of Friedrich Nietzsche's "Twilight of the Idols" (Götzendämmerung) was an intentional, punning reference to the concept treated by Wagner in this play. Should something about that be included in the article? AllGloryToTheHypnotoad (talk) 16:23, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
End of the plot
I havent seen it, but from this article i dont get the reason for the death of the gods? --82.131.86.22 13:57, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
- As far as I can recall, the fire from the funeral pyre reaches into the sky and basically burns Valhalla and the Gods.
- Its complicated. In the prologue, the Norns tell us that Wotan has felled the World Ash Tree, and has piled its timber around Vahalla. Brünnhilde sends ravens to her rock to tell Loge to go to Vahalla. He does, and it burns. The actual process of Vahalla's destruction is of little consequence: we know that the Gods are going to die as early as scene iv of Rheingold. --Alexs letterbox 02:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
- Here's my $0.02 on this: There is no good reason, plotwise, for the gods to burn! If Hagen had gotten the ring, then it might make sense, but under the circumstances it's totally inconsistent. The premise is Wotan is doomed because he didn't give the ring back to the river-sprites. This is why Loge abandons him and considers burning him at the end of DAS RHEINGOLD. In GDAM Waltraute makes it very clear, and Alberich repeats, that the disaster can be averted by returning the ring to the sprites. So Brunhilde's doing so, just before immolating, should have saved Wotan. Why didn't it? Wagner knew that if the audience left wondering what happened, they'd talk about it longer. What we now call the "2001-A-Space-Odyssey Principle". So you mustn't try to be too logical about GDAM and especially don't try to make it fit with the other three chapters. GDAM was conceived first, and it is dictated by the desire to stage certain scenes from epic poetry--Brunhilde-recognises-ring,-makes-scene, and, Hagen-impales-Siegfried-from-behind--than by the desire to make a bigger point. Wotan and the superman-redeems-corrupt-outdated-morality stuff and the curse and the ring having magic powers came later. George Bernard Shaw wrote that for him the Ring Cycle, as a philosophical work, ended at the last chord of SIEGFRIED; GDAM was just a sequence of operatic cliches. The heroic-friendship-duet, the leader-rallies-followers scene, the dying-tenor-aria, the funeral march, the final soprano-aria, all standard conventions. SingingZombie (talk) 08:32, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
- UPDATE: this is similar to Lohengrin. At the end, Lohengrin laments that if only Elsa had let him stay with her for a year before popping the question, then Gottfried would have been disenchanted and restored to leadership. Having said this, he promptly... disenchants Gottfried and returns him to leadership! Wagner loved to make the villains win, but he was unable to stomach their victories. 68.173.17.250 (talk) 01:40, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
- I'll chip in a penny. My memory of the curse is that Wotan is to return the ring. Having forever to do so, he doesn't and someone else does. Opps. htom (talk) 21:10, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
Battle of Berlin?
What does the name "Götterdämmerung" have to do with the Battle of Berlin? The note at the top implies some relationship, but I don't see any information in the other article that would enlighten me. -- SCZenz (talk) 17:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
- Removed the "other use" reference. I can't find a valid reason either for that being there.Theshoveljockey (talk) 17:35, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
Marvel Comics
FYI I don't know how to incorporate this into the article, but in Thor (Marvel Comics) a Marvel Comics wrote a short series based loosely on this, the Nibelunglied and the Volsunga in between issues #292-300.MPA 23:03, 16 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MPA (talk • contribs)
Smear Words
Deleted a short paragraph that worked to defame Wagner's work by claiming Nazi policies were based on it / Norse mythology, which is utterly absurd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.41.55.88 (talk) 05:53, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Brunnhilde's rock
I am watching the Spanish production of this. Why does Siegfried leaves Brunnhilde on the rock? Also,if she is human now, would he have left her there to starve? Luckily she is saved by the fake Gibichung. Myrvin (talk) 11:12, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Infobox
| Götterdämmerung | |
|---|---|
| Opera by Richard Wagner | |
 Scene from Act 2, Gwyneth Jones as Brünnhilde in Patrice Chéreau's centenary staging at the Bayreuth Festival, 1976 | |
| Translation | Twilight of the Gods |
| Librettist | Richard Wagner |
| Language | German |
| Premiere | 17 August 1876 (1876-08-17) Bayreuth Festival, as part of the first complete performance of the cycle Der Ring des Nibelungen |
| Other |
Stage works by Wagner
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To treat the four parts of The Ring equally, I added an infobox as an option of project opera, replacing the redundant composer navbox. Kindly leave it in place unless you consider it harmful, and discuss here if it is to stay and how to be improved. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:38, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
- "part of the first Der Ring des Nibelungen" sent me searching for the second part. It's superfluous under the heading "Premiere" – as is the whole box (info? what info?) -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:44, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
- I would like to include that it was premiered as part of the first complete performance of the cycle, please word better and change, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:59, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
I have reverted the infobox. This major change to the article - which also reflects on the other Ring operas and other Wagner operas - should not have been undertaken singlehandedly without discussion. Some notification to the Wagner and Opera projects would also have been polite, as well as to editors who have worked on the article. Contrary to what Gerda writes above, the composer infobox is not regarded generally as 'redundant', and there is no authority of any sort, as she seems to imply, from the WPOpera project to replace navboxes with infoboxes. Even if the project had expressed such opinion, Gerda knows very well that, by Misplaced Pages conventions, it does not own opera articles or has any right to issue instructions about them. It ought to operate by seeking consensus; and so should Gerda. --Smerus (talk) 16:35, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
- I politely disagree with several of your assumptions. As explained on the arbcom case, I will not seek "permission" - and whose? - before making an edit. I do what I feel is right, you do what you feel right. The redundance is no matter of "regarding", there is nothing in the side navbox which is not repeated in the footer navbox, matter of fact. If you insist to also have the "other" works on top: the infobox has a parameter for that. (I personally think it's nonsense when a footer navbox is there.) Every contributor on Misplaced Pages has the same authority to make an edit, - I don't understand what you think I "imply", - I said "option" and meant "option". - Let's discuss the merits of the infobox. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:15, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
As an alternative to the original proposal, here is a version with a picture related to the specific work and a possibility to see the other stage works also, to be refined, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:46, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
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