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In American English, U.S. (with points) is more common as the standard abbreviation for United States, although The Chicago Manual of Style now deprecates the use of the periods (16th ed.). US (without points) is generally accepted in most other national forms of English.

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No RfXs since 17:37, 25 December 2024 (UTC).—_{Talk to my owner:Online}

Self-help writing tutorials:

• Exercises in weeding out fluff from article text
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• Copy-editing essentials, part of the Military History Academy

edit

DYK-Good Article Request for Comment

Did you know ... that since you expressed an opinion on the GA/DYK proposal last year, we invite you to contribute to a formal Request for Comment on the matter? Please see the proposal on its subpage here, or on the main DYK talk page. To add the discussion to your watchlist, click this link. Regards, Gilderien Chat|What I've done22:57, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Query

Hey Tony, do you know of a script or AWB module that can deal with overlinking? --John (talk) 20:31, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

• you might like to try User:Ohconfucius/script/Common Terms. -- Ohc _{¿que pasa?} 23:48, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

That looks interesting and I will definitely try it, but I also wanted to be able to quickly assess and address "real" links that are used too frequently in an article. At the moment I have a fairly laborious work-around in AWB, but it's a pain. Any thoughts? --John (talk) 21:12, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Most of the terms (and circumstances) unlinked by the script are "real world" terms that often get overlinked according to my experience (and Tony's). If you can show me your famous workaround, perhaps I can offer some suggestions. I can also easily adapt the regex rules of my script into an AWB module, if you're interested. -- Ohc _{¿que pasa?} 02:52, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Question

As an expert on grammar, do you have any advice for the discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)#Commas in metro areas? We have kind of an odd situation there, dealing with metropolitan and micropolitan areas in the United States. The census bureau provides data every ten years, and the Office of Management and Budget picks a bunch of areas every so often and defines them either as metropolitan or micropolitan areas, and defines which cities and towns are included in each. For example, Las Vegas has a metropolitan area that they call the Las Vegas-Paradise, NV Metropolitan Statistical Area, and one including Dayton, Ohio, called the Dayton, OH Metropolitan Statistical Area. There are 939 of these, and of these we have a little over 100 articles of the format ]. None of these are contained within the named city. Clearly if someone writes the sentence, Dayton, Ohio, is part of a metropolitan area, a comma is needed after the state, but what about the sentence, the Dayton, Ohio Metropolitan Statistical Area includes Dayton, Ohio? Is a comma required between Ohio and Metropolitan? Thanks. Oh, we also have two articles of the format city, state, metro/micropolitan area, but one of those was moved to that title today. Apteva (talk) 08:20, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

You overestimate me. I've never liked the bumpety-bump of two successive commas in this situation, if avoidable (just as we break logic on one level by not writing "... in the U.S.." at the end of a sentence, bowing to the English distaste for the doubling. If I had my way, it would be "... Dayton, Ohio is part of ...". The previous example would take the second comma more easily: "and one including Dayton, Ohio, called the Dayton, OH Metropolitan Statistical Area"; cf. "and one including Dayton, called the Dayton, OH Metropolitan Statistical Area". Tony (talk) 08:33, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Tony - having seen your reply here, I was surprised to see your !vote on the second comma issue. If you agree the second comma is unnecessary and "bumpy," why not stand up for that position? Dohn joe (talk) 17:18, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Because I've thought more about it: ambiguity is worse than bumpiness. Tony (talk) 02:49, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

But where is the ambiguity? "Canandaigua is the second-largest city in the Rochester, New York metropolitan area." Any reading of that sentence that includes "New York metropolitan area" as a phrase renders the sentence effectively meaningless; there is no reasonable ambiguity to resolve. A second comma does not improve the understanding of the sentence, and it actively impairs its readability. I think your initial thinking on this issue was correct. Dohn joe (talk) 20:57, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. If this was French, we could just ask the academy. "The body has the task of acting as an official authority on the language; it is charged with publishing an official dictionary of the language. Its rulings, however, are only advisory, not binding on either the public or the government." Apteva (talk) 16:11, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

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FAN Responses

Hello! I don't know if I ever successfully got a hold of you. I was wondering you had seen the changes I'd made to "X-Cops", per your suggestions, and if there was anything else you'd suggest.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 23:24, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Revert

Tony - what was up with this revert? I would have done the same if there were any two-comma-wanting editors who had not re-expressed their opinion in the survey section that was added by dicklyon in the middle of the discussion. How is that not equitable? Dohn joe (talk) 03:14, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't matter which side. To start with, one of your insertions is from an editor who is topic-banned from such discussions. There is no verficiation of either. And as an aside, I do believe you yourself have removed a proxy insertion into a previous discussion. Tony (talk) 03:32, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that Apteva had been topic banned - I won't add his !vote back in. As for BDD, they clearly opined very plainly on the topic several times before dicklyon opened the survey section, including the lines directly below the survey section; that seems pretty darn verified. And as for the Brand New edit, you may recall that I didn't remove your relation of N's thoughts from afar - just the proxy !vote. I stand by the idea that someone who voluntarily removes himself from our community has forfeited the right to participate actively in it. I know you two are wikifriends, and I know you feel that he was hounded away, and I truly do sympathize with you because of that. I don't, and never have had a bone to pick with you, Tony. Dohn joe (talk) 05:15, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

That's fine if you want to sift through MOS for everyone who has ever objected to the single comma; otherwise, proxy !votes should not be posted there. Tony (talk) 05:27, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I have no desire to sift through the MOS to look for any kind of comma supporters. All I did was go through the current discussion and look for people who contributed to that one discussion before the survey section was added, so that the survey would accurately reflect the history of the discussion. That's why I don't consider it a "proxy vote" - I intentionally did not go outside the bounds of the current discussion. I understand that there might be an appearance of bias, though, since the opinion in question coincides with mine, so would you consider re-inserting the reflection of BDD's intent in the survey? I would greatly appreciate it. Dohn joe (talk) 05:45, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I believe it would be proper for you to make a request of anyone who expressed an opinion above, rather than inserting a proxy !vote. Tony (talk) 06:02, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Noetica

Misplaced Pages talk:Missing Wikipedians#Noetica (version of 04:22, 6 August 2013) may interest you, and it may interest Noetica, who may be watching this talk page.
—Wavelength (talk) 04:26, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm unsure why you posted this message, though. Tony (talk) 04:30, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I posted it because you may wish to watch that page and its talk page, and also because Noetica may be watching your talk page. In retrospect, I sense that posting it here may have been excessive.

—Wavelength (talk) 04:39, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I doubt it: last I heard he was extremely busy, helping clients to write high-level text. Tony (talk) 04:52, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

CP

You added Idiom dictionary to Misplaced Pages:Copyright problems/2013 May 29, but the "source" you listed is a Misplaced Pages diff. Did you insert the wrong url?--SPhilbrick(Talk) 19:17, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Humble request for assistance in a dispute.

Hi there. I found your userpage by searching through the edit history of the Manual of Style, in the hopes that I could find someone well-versed in journalistic style and naming conventions.

I'm currently involved in a dispute with some other editors over the naming of the "big.LITTLE" article. As far as I can tell, they are all computer-programmer types who know a lot about technical stuff but very little about correct English. The dispute began when in passing, I casually renamed the article from "big.LITTLE" to "Big.little": As it is not an acronym, it seemed like an obvious error. Then a huge debate ensued.

So if you feel like you have the necessary writing education, or whether you know someone who does, I'd be grateful for a professional opinion.

InternetMeme (talk) 11:47, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm busy until tomorrow. I believe Dicklyon has expertise in this kind of thing, and is a scientist himself. Tony (talk) 12:36, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for replying. There's no real hurry with this issue. It's good that Dicklyon has experience with this kind of thing, but the fact that he's a scientist means that he may not have a great deal of expertise when it comes to the arts and language, as it's rare to find someone with a degree in both those fields.

I'm specifically looking for someone who has expertise in language or journalism. I guess it's possible that Dicklyon is qualified in this area as well though, I guess. InternetMeme (talk) 13:04, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I do have experience and interest in style and naming policies and guidelines and such. This one is a lost cause. If you really thought the more English-like style was widely used in sources, you needed to make that case (which after checking sources, I would not agree with), following BRD, rather than edit warring. Telling all the others there that the MOS mandates it, and that their opinions are irrelevant, while move warring over it, doomed your case, and made it an unattractive case for people who support the MOS. Abusing the MOS as a hammer can only harm it. Dicklyon (talk) 16:02, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I definitely think we need someone with a journalism degree to look at this. My perspective, having spent a lot of time referencing Britannica, I've never seen a title have more than one uppercase letter per word. I was also taught this rule in an introductory language course. It is simply not done. Obviously it's not fair to expect you guys to take my word for it, but I think that kind of thing is second nature to anyone with a journalism degree, which is why it's necessary to get them to weigh in on the issue. InternetMeme (talk) 11:57, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Monthly Updates userpage

Hi Tony1, much respect for all your work on WP but how about getting rid of your user page on "Monthly updates of styleguide and policy changes"? I typed "WP:Updates" into the search box, a reasonable thing to do I thought that others may well do also, and there it was - not touched since 2008. --Noyster (talk) 22:07, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Sure. How to do it? There's a template somewhere, I think. You're welcome to do the honours. Tony (talk) 01:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)