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A hyphen is not used after a standard -ly adverb (a newly available home, a wholly owned subsidiary).

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edit

Comment requested

Since you provided some editing on the article, I was wondering if you might weigh in on the discussion about whether or not to delete it

Doug Turnbull (author} Bides time (talk) 22:00, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Question

As an expert on grammar, do you have any advice for the discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)#Commas in metro areas? We have kind of an odd situation there, dealing with metropolitan and micropolitan areas in the United States. The census bureau provides data every ten years, and the Office of Management and Budget picks a bunch of areas every so often and defines them either as metropolitan or micropolitan areas, and defines which cities and towns are included in each. For example, Las Vegas has a metropolitan area that they call the Las Vegas-Paradise, NV Metropolitan Statistical Area, and one including Dayton, Ohio, called the Dayton, OH Metropolitan Statistical Area. There are 939 of these, and of these we have a little over 100 articles of the format ]. None of these are contained within the named city. Clearly if someone writes the sentence, Dayton, Ohio, is part of a metropolitan area, a comma is needed after the state, but what about the sentence, the Dayton, Ohio Metropolitan Statistical Area includes Dayton, Ohio? Is a comma required between Ohio and Metropolitan? Thanks. Oh, we also have two articles of the format city, state, metro/micropolitan area, but one of those was moved to that title today. Apteva (talk) 08:20, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

You overestimate me. I've never liked the bumpety-bump of two successive commas in this situation, if avoidable (just as we break logic on one level by not writing "... in the U.S.." at the end of a sentence, bowing to the English distaste for the doubling. If I had my way, it would be "... Dayton, Ohio is part of ...". The previous example would take the second comma more easily: "and one including Dayton, Ohio, called the Dayton, OH Metropolitan Statistical Area"; cf. "and one including Dayton, called the Dayton, OH Metropolitan Statistical Area". Tony (talk) 08:33, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Tony - having seen your reply here, I was surprised to see your !vote on the second comma issue. If you agree the second comma is unnecessary and "bumpy," why not stand up for that position? Dohn joe (talk) 17:18, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Because I've thought more about it: ambiguity is worse than bumpiness. Tony (talk) 02:49, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

But where is the ambiguity? "Canandaigua is the second-largest city in the Rochester, New York metropolitan area." Any reading of that sentence that includes "New York metropolitan area" as a phrase renders the sentence effectively meaningless; there is no reasonable ambiguity to resolve. A second comma does not improve the understanding of the sentence, and it actively impairs its readability. I think your initial thinking on this issue was correct. Dohn joe (talk) 20:57, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. If this was French, we could just ask the academy. "The body has the task of acting as an official authority on the language; it is charged with publishing an official dictionary of the language. Its rulings, however, are only advisory, not binding on either the public or the government." Apteva (talk) 16:11, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Humble request for assistance in a dispute.

Hi there. I found your userpage by searching through the edit history of the Manual of Style, in the hopes that I could find someone well-versed in journalistic style and naming conventions.

I'm currently involved in a dispute with some other editors over the naming of the "big.LITTLE" article. As far as I can tell, they are all computer-programmer types who know a lot about technical stuff but very little about correct English. The dispute began when in passing, I casually renamed the article from "big.LITTLE" to "Big.little": As it is not an acronym, it seemed like an obvious error. Then a huge debate ensued.

So if you feel like you have the necessary writing education, or whether you know someone who does, I'd be grateful for a professional opinion.

InternetMeme (talk) 11:47, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm busy until tomorrow. I believe Dicklyon has expertise in this kind of thing, and is a scientist himself. Tony (talk) 12:36, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for replying. There's no real hurry with this issue. It's good that Dicklyon has experience with this kind of thing, but the fact that he's a scientist means that he may not have a great deal of expertise when it comes to the arts and language, as it's rare to find someone with a degree in both those fields.

I'm specifically looking for someone who has expertise in language or journalism. I guess it's possible that Dicklyon is qualified in this area as well though, I guess. InternetMeme (talk) 13:04, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I do have experience and interest in style and naming policies and guidelines and such. This one is a lost cause. If you really thought the more English-like style was widely used in sources, you needed to make that case (which after checking sources, I would not agree with), following BRD, rather than edit warring. Telling all the others there that the MOS mandates it, and that their opinions are irrelevant, while move warring over it, doomed your case, and made it an unattractive case for people who support the MOS. Abusing the MOS as a hammer can only harm it. Dicklyon (talk) 16:02, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I definitely think we need someone with a journalism degree to look at this. My perspective, having spent a lot of time referencing Britannica, I've never seen a title have more than one uppercase letter per word. I was also taught this rule in an introductory language course. It is simply not done. Obviously it's not fair to expect you guys to take my word for it, but I think that kind of thing is second nature to anyone with a journalism degree, which is why it's necessary to get them to weigh in on the issue. InternetMeme (talk) 11:57, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

See Category:Wikipedian journalists.—Wavelength (talk) 14:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Monthly Updates userpage

Hi Tony1, much respect for all your work on WP but how about getting rid of your user page on "Monthly updates of styleguide and policy changes"? I typed "WP:Updates" into the search box, a reasonable thing to do I thought that others may well do also, and there it was - not touched since 2008. --Noyster (talk) 22:07, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Sure. How to do it? There's a template somewhere, I think. You're welcome to do the honours. Tony (talk) 01:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Bach trip

Stalking Gerda Arendt, I noticed your intention to visit Leipzig (which is in Saxony, not Thuringia – where Erfurt, Eisenach, and Weimar are must-see places). I've just been there (during the recent floods) and I stronly recommend you put (at least) 2 days for a visit to Dresden aside – it's much more spectacular than Leipzig (although the 2 Bach churches there & his grave made my hair stand on end). Bon voyage – Gute Reise -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 14:43, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I know that Leipzig is not in Thuringia. Unfortunately there's not really time for Dresden ... it's several hours by train, and Halle (Handelhaus) and Köthen beckon while I'm in Leipzig, as well as the primary reason for going, yes, the two churches (and the Bachmuseum). I'll keep it in mind if I feel a day-trip to Dresden is manageable, though, of my three days in L. I'm then staying in Eisenach (within reach of Muhlhausen) and Arnstadt (within reach of Ohrdurf and Dornheim), and will spend a half-day in Weimar as I pass through. Ehrfurt doesn't have much Bach attraction (wasn't the church burnt down?). This planning has made me realise the extent to which the Wikivoyage model needs updating. Tony (talk) 14:57, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

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Re:Reminder

Xuxa twist?

I noticed that your recent edit was not like your previous ones . Was that from a mouse malfunction? Or perhaps it might be worth testing a concept where certain non-STRONGNAT articles are style-toggled every 3-4 months. Will await your thoughts either way... Dl2000 (talk) 00:25, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

My error—now fixed. Thx. Tony (talk) 01:36, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Re:Dashes script

En dashes in ranges style change

I'm curious what consensus you were citing when you made this change. You seemed to think that the example "1492? – 7 April 1556" was inconsistent with the previous wording of the style guide. However, you missed (as I almost did) the hidden-in-plain-sight space after the question mark. Contrarily, the example 1–17 September, would not be possible if your change were made. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 07:13, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

The previous wording was ambiguous (at least one space in both endpoints, or one?). The 1492? example proved the point: one endpoint has an internal space in that example; whereas in the other examples both endpoints have internal spaces. I'm hoping the wording is less ambiguous now. True? Tony (talk) 07:51, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

"1492?" has a space after the punctuation, so both endpoints do have spaces. According to the style, without the question mark it would be "1492–7 April 1556". Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 08:17, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

No, "7 April 1556" has two internal spaces; therefore "1492–7 April 1556" needs to be "1492 – 7 April 1556". Tony (talk) 08:19, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Both sides need "at least one space" If that weren't the case, wouldn't 1–17 September, February–October 2009 be wrong? Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 08:47, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Because the endpoints—to take your first example—are not "1" and "17 September"; they are "1" and "17". Tony (talk) 11:23, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Concertized

Worried that I'd have to trout myself, I pulled some old revisions to the article. As it turns out, the Wikipedian who made this edit is the one that invented the word "concertized" :-). My dictionary informs me that it is a real verb, at least in North America, but it means to give a concert. He may have meant "constituted". AGK 13:05, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

I first thought ... ah, several laws coming together (in concert) ... but re-read the sentence and realised it was simpler. I hope I've chosen something safe enough – I have someone who's closer to this topic looking over my shoulder, actually, and there were no noises emanating when I changed it. :-) Tony (talk) 13:12, 15 August 2013 (UTC)