Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Hijiri88 (talk | contribs) at 13:27, 27 August 2013 (→Messages exchanged between Hijiri 88 and User:Michael.haephrati). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Edit request on 22 August 2013

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• Keep It is easy to verify that all sources are genuine and reliable. From what I see, most if not all of the Magazines and news papers mentioned have their own Misplaced Pages page…

See: Amiga_World, Amazing_Computing, Maariv_(newspaper), Yedioth and also the magazines from Denmark, Germany, Italy and the UK that are mentioned. Not to mention, Aminet which is where to look for any Amiga software (commercial or freeware). There are articles about Rashumon published by each and any of these sources. Rashumon is listed and available to download from Aminet. Looking at other Amiga products (I think the comparison should be among other Amiga products, as the Amiga in general had a very small number of users comparing to other personal computers), Rashumon has sufficient sources and don’t forget there was no Internet these days and all sources were printed. The actual scans are published in a personal blog or page, but that should not change the fact that each scanned article or news item are taken from these reliable sources. Also from the point of view of the features Rashumon used to have, it was the first and only word processor that could read the text for you. The article in Maariv, clearly says that and focuses in this feature. It allowed editing text in opposed languages, such as Hebrew and Arabic, and several of the sources are write-ups form universities where African or middle east studies took place. These posts are far from being impressive. They look bad and poor but that is because you are looking at pages from 1994.

Cesarp123 (talk) 19:42, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

WP:SOCKPUPPET & WP:MEATPUPPET votes will not be counted, sorry. Tarc (talk) 19:56, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 22 August 2013

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

• Keep Whether a software program was relevant at the time or not it itself irrelevant because that software was part of the history. If someone where to inquire about what was invented at the time or what was available then they will find out that Rashumon was an innovative program that had features that were ahead of the time. Whether it became popular or not is irrelevant, what is relevant is the innovation it offered at the time.

Cesarp123 (talk) 19:48, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

WP:SOCKPUPPET & WP:MEATPUPPET votes will not be counted, sorry. Tarc (talk) 19:56, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Messages exchanged between Hijiri 88 and User:Michael.haephrati

Comment I'm neutral as to whether this article should be deleted or kept, but I felt the need to disclose this. Michael.haephrati has been contacting me by e-mail since my initial detective-work on ANI. His e-mail confirmed that it was him (not someone else named Michael Haephrati) who posted the off-wiki canvassing, and that he had edited the post to be more "neural" after I pointed it out on ANI. His initial e-mail also mentioned that he was "looking for cooperation with any user or editor". He has apparently read WP:CANVAS and made a good-faith misinterpretation of the part that says "Notifications must be ... neutrally worded with a neutral title" to refer to off-wiki communications as well as talk page comments. It therefore seems incredibly likely to me that Michael.haephrati located Marko75 by some means (though they have had effectively no interaction before now) and in good-faith contacted him by e-mail. Or, given the history here, it might have been another user who contacted him. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:47, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

With all due respect I resent that accusation. Sending onsite email messages (WP:EMAIL) is permitted to those who allowed that in their account's preferences (and that can be disabled by any one at any time). Publishing the contents of a private email is considered to be an WP:EMAILABUSE. Nevertheless, I haven't contacted Marko75 and don't know him at all. According to the Uw-canvas template text, "...While friendly notices are allowed, they should be limited and nonpartisan in distribution and should reflect a neutral point of view...". I indeed failed to comply with that at first but I have acknowledged my mistake and apologized in my Talk page, and of course revised the wordings of my message, including my offsite message. Just for the record, I am not yuvalg9 and DID NOT publish my original offsite message (prior to revising it by me) in this page. He did it. copying the text from my old post and has done that on his own. I sent very few 'friendly notices' including a one to Hijiri 88 which was very kind, helpful and guided me as for what I should and should not do. That being said, onsite and offsite messages ARE allowed and these messages were 'limited and reflected a neutral point of view'. (I have posted in an Amiga forum an invitation to participate in this debate and to vote for keeping or for deleting this article). People makes mistakes and no one is perfect, but this discussion is about the notability of a product and about keeping or deleting an article. The article and me are two different and separate entities, and as someone wrote here, notability is not temporary...M. H. 11:23, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

I never accused you of being Yuvalg9. Anyone who did so would need to be a complete idiot, as you clearly meant to hide that posting from the Misplaced Pages community as indicated by your reverting Yuvalg9. Please take that accusation back. You do, however, above assert that you are not the original creator of the article, even though that user in his last edit seemed to strongly imply that he was none other than you. Sending e-mails to multiple users, no matter how neutral they are, is frowned upon, as I have already told you in our e-mail interaction. Start using user talk pages, stop posting obviously NOT neutral messages on external forums, and stop claiming not to be the same person as the original creator of the article, and then we might be able to trust you as a Misplaced Pages editor. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:25, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

I agree that I am not yuvalg9, but I have provided a claim thinking otherwise. I didn't try to hide any posting (it is impossible to hide anything in Misplaced Pages, as all history is kept forever), and I thought what yuvalg9 did was inappropriate. At that time, and as I tried to explain again and again, I haven't realized that there could be such thing as offsite canvasing, so I didn't see any problem with the original forum message I have posted offsite, which is identical to what yuvalg9 has posted here (which is why I assumed he copied form this forum). I then realized that canvasing can also take place offsite, and changed this forum message and wrote about that in my Talk page. I didn't try to hide the original forum and in fact it appears in my reference list. I am aware about what you wrote to me in our private emails exchange and first I didn't mass email, but used a Misplaced Pages feature. If there is an email feature, I (and anyone) can use it. If you don't want to receive emails, change your account's settings. Also, I am not the creator of this article and even though I have connection to the old company Harmony Soft, being one of the founders, that doesn't mean I was the only founder nor the only person involved. Several persons where involved in this venture and I am not obliged to reveal the identity of whom started this article, even if I knew who he or she is. I don't know your identity, and same goes with most of the Misplaced Pages users who doesn't use their real name. Please don't use the word "we" when you express your own opinion. I understand from your message that you don't trust me as an editor, and I am sorry to hear that. I got some positive feedbacks about my editing and I can tell you that I do trust you as an editor. Since I trust you, and to be on the safe side, I removed the offsite forum message.M. H. 18:29, 26 August 2013 (UTC) Updated M. H. 08:40, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Note MH, despite promising to refrain from on- and off-site canvassing, has maintained this thread post with "Misplaced Pages page about an Amiga word processor (Rashumon)" in the title, despite having apparently edited the posting "Yesterday at 12:21 PM..". Someone named AndreasM posted this on "24.08.2013 - 09:31", which appears to be a copy of something MH posted after the canvassing scandal took place:

"If you have an opinion about that matter, Please express it in this page. (Apparently new Misplaced Pages members can't vote)

If you have more reliable sources such as magazine reviews, etc. please send them to me.

Thanks,

Michael Haephrati <email removed>

I'm noticing that taken purely on number of !votes, "Keep" seems to have the lead, but given the rampant canvassing ... I don't envy the admin who has to figure out how to close this fairly ... maybe block MH and re-nominate with a semi-protected AFD and close it after 4 days ...

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:38, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Dear Hijiri88, you seems to have a long history of breaching various codes and rules in Misplaced Pages, using multiple accounts, etc. and I understand (and respect the fact that) you try to recover your reputation under a new user. I am not trying to fight you back but please get off of me!!! I don't know and don't care who published this forum message (that seems to be a copy of the one I have deleted, from a different forum. You (and so am I) can't control the entire world, but in any case I am 100% sure that my original message (which I have deleted) was perfectly OK and kept a natural tone, and even though, to be on the safe side, and to show my respect to the Misplaced Pages community. I deleted my message off site. I am not going to continue this ridicules argument with you, which goes round and round in circles.M. H. 13:14, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

MH, with all due respect, you can take your goddamn personal attacks and accusations about things you know nothing about, and shove them up your ass. The parenthetical statement clearly shows you edited the message after the page was protected. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:27, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

I have just checked my own offsite post which was changed and doesn't mention Misplaced Pages at all. The original post was about 2 issues and I left the 2nd issue which has nothing to do with Misplaced Pages and this debate. I have now noticed that the title wasn't changed and I have changed it.M. H. 13:22, 27 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael.haephrati (talk • contribs)