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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by John Carter (talk | contribs) at 18:14, 2 September 2013 (→Tendentious editing and other instances of recent misconduct by Ignocrates: grammar). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Ovadyah/Ignocrates' POV leaning toward neo-Ebionite causes

Ovadyah's first edit to his user page here indicates rather clearly that his first, and to date almost sole, topic of interest is Ebionites, with very occasional input on other tangentially related subjects as per his article space edit history here, and particularly shows a bias toward neo-Ebionite movements, specifically from a "Jewish perspective". There are, to the best of my knowledge, no articles on any such movements, because, despite the optimism Ovadyah displayed in that edit, there have been no independent sources of any real kind produced which indicate the notability of these groups. That lack of any independent discussion certainly raises some questions as to how he was so, um, aware of and interested in their existence, although, of course, there is the web, with its wealth of unreliable sources. And, so far as I can tell, the only one of the several neo-Ebionite groups which emphasizes the "Jewishness" is the still after 28 years non-notable Ebionite Jewish Community, founded by Shemayah Phillips. Here he even explicitly states "I know quite a few Ebionites in the EC," which I find somewhat amazing, considering I myself have never seen much good evidence that there are, well, really any people in the EC. Certainly, its lack of any substantive discussion in any independent sources consulted to date raises very serious questions how many people there might actually be involved. Other times when Ovadyah/Ignocrates clearly displays a rather transparent bias toward Shemayah Phillips and his Ebionite Jewish Community in particular can be found here, here. Here he clearly states he sent a private e-mail to Shemayah Phillips about how the Ebionite article would be on the main page, without providing any indication as to whether he sent similar private e-mails to any other non-notable groups or individuals who similarly have made claims to being some sort of (non-notable) claim to being revivals of the historical Ebionites. Ignocrates/Ovadyah seems to fairly clearly lie about that here, in which he says he thinks the last time he looked at that page was seven years ago. The entire section of Talk:Ebionites/Archive 5#What was the reason for the push for FA status? Ovadyah has an lot of explaining to do along with a few other editors! seems to be devoted to the very early questions, well before I first took part in discussion, regarding the problematic and extremely questionable nature of Ovadyah/Ignocrates's input on this topic, and also apparently raises questions about Ovadyah's regular, somewhat unusual, insistent drive to promote articles up to FA status. In fact, it seems that, in the early days, as per some of his own comments and the comments of others about his actions , Ovadyah/Ignocrates didn't attempt to hide his bias in favor of something similar to the beliefs of Philiips, as he seems to be doing today. Talk:Ebionites/Archive 5#Conspiracy? contains an edit from an IP who describes himself as Shemayah Phillips who goes on to state, and I quote here " Ovadyah, who was a member years ago, not very active, and who left most likely due to disagreements in belief, approach, and style of the group." So, I think we have extremely good evidence both that Ovadyah/Ignocrates has what many might reasonably consider a rather obvious possible POV problem, considering he is more or less exclusively involved in editing content relating to a religious group he is described as a former member of. Also, the statement of the IP indicates that Ovadyah/Ignocrates' still, at the time he left, held basically similar beliefs to that of the EJC, even if he did disagree in "belief, approach, and style." In such cases, FWIW, it is not unheard of for individuals to perhaps start their own splinter group, although I acknowledge that I have no direct evidence in this particular case to that effect, basically because I don't have much interest in what the non-notable webpages of individuals or Facebook or other sources which can't be counted as reliable enough for inclusion here say on pretty much any religious issue. However, I do believe that the above probably clearly raises sufficient question regarding the POV of the editor in question regarding the broad topic of Ebionites, and possibly/probably all articles which are closely related to it. It may also, not unreasonably, raise questions about how literally to take Ovadyah/Ignocrates' description of his editing as "penance" as per here. There is of course a question regarding the nature of this penance, whether it is to atone for his belief in this neo-Ebionite movement, or, perhaps, to try to be readmitted into the group, and to have to perform some sort of penance for his having earlier left it.

Dishonesty/incivility of Ovadyah/Ignocrates

Despite all the above, this person makes such statements as this. In it he indicates that he thinks I, who have rarely if ever even looked at the group's web page, preferring, unlike O/I, independent reliable sources, might know more than the IP/founder of the group says is a former member of the group, whose circumstances of leaving are, like I said, unclear. LOL.

Badgering and harassment by Ovadyah/Ignorrates

I rather regret to say that over the years I have been repeatedly the subject of numerous instances of, to use one of Ovadyah/Ignocrates's favorite words lately, "defamation," and conduct which qualifies as some form of badgering/harassment, at the talk pages of Jayjg, Dougweller, NYB, and others. I regret to say that I am not the only person who has been subject to this individual's bile, however, as he has previously clearly threatened another editor, In ictu oculi, for example, is threatened here with being taken to ANI for not posting messages on project talk pages, but only with editors who have been previously involved with him. There is serious question whether Ovadyah/Ignocrates is himself such a stickler to policy and guidelines, including WP:POV, in his own history, and it is perhaps appropriate that his name has much the same, well, poetic meter, as the word "hypocrisy."

Stalking, harassment, and other conduct issues regarding Ovadyah/Ignocrates

(draft) Ever since I helped establish that some of the sources Ovadyah/Ignocrates was most personally passionately committed to, like Tabor and Phillips, I have personally been rather regularly the target of his generally unwarranted and sometimes clearly irrational behavior. User talk:Jayjg/Archive 30#Request for informal mediation contains some of Ovadyah/Ignocrates's earaly dishonesty, rather clearly indicated by me as such. User talk:Jayjg/Archive 31#Tabor on Ebionites here is one more recent discussion, in which Ovadyah/Ignocrates has the blind stupid gall to without foundation jump to conclusions about other people's intentions. If he can prove he has the psychic powers he seems to claim here, and elsewhere like here I think the best place to do that would be in the appropriate psychic research facility. User talk:Jayjg/Archive 32#Ebionites (again) contains both an obvious and easily verifiable misstatement of fact in the form of an accusation by Ignocrates, that I was de-sysoped, and an attempt to use that in a misleading and accusatory manner, both of which seem to be part of a regular attempt to not address matters of fact and to try to derail discussion with irrational allegations. Ovadyah/Ignocrates makes further unfounded allegations regarding others which can be found at User talk:Jayjg/Archive 33#Request for input at edit-warring on Ebionites. Further examples of apparent hypocrisy of Ovadyah/Ignocrates can be found at User talk:Jayjg/Archive 34#Can you look into this?. Further prejudicial attempts at rephrasing the comments of others for tactical gain by Ovadyah/Ignocrates can be found at User talk:Jayjg/Archive 35#Conflict of interest noticeboard. Further prejudicial rephrasing of the comments of others for some apparent belief in tactical gain to be achieved by such can be found at User talk:Jayjg/Archive 35#Request for input. In this thread User talk:Jayjg#Archive 35#Mediation comments he even goes so far as to accuse other editors of being my "hand-picked acolytes," as if I am in some way trying to found a "church" here. I think based on the evidence his own clear and almost obsessively close relationship to Ret. Prof., that is probably the closest thing to someone having an "acolyte" around here. Further questionable commentary can be found at User talk:Jayjg/Archive 35#Mediation Conduct. ] Ovadyah/Ignocrates indicated he wanted a second mediation to continue. It should be noted that second mediation was between only three people, Ovadyah/Ignocrates, myself, and Michael C Price, whose actions supporting a non-notable self-published book and Robert Eisenman's theories were the reason that Ovadyah/Ignocrates first requested input from others, and the reason for filing the first mediation. Why did Ovadyah/Ignocrates do such a remarkable about-face on this individual? Well, if one reviews the mediation, they will find the subject of the second mediation was the reliability of James Tabor's The Jesus Dynasty, a book Ovadyah/Ignocrates was very fond of even though it had already been found to not meet standards at the RSN, and similar fringey information which he wanted included, and which Michael, evidently, was willing to support if his own preferred fringe theories were not going to be allowed to be kept in the article. here Idgnocrates accuses me of "religious bigotry", without providing any evidence, but, presumably from context, based on his efforts to basically violate policy and guidelines to provide content relating to the Ebionite Jewish Community/Ebionite Community with which he has been so consistently enamored, despite it having to date never having received discussion in independent reliable sources to merit material in it being included. here Ignocrates makes a transparently false accusation about how posting a comment requesting input from a WikiProject is "canvassing," which no policy or guideline supports. I believe that this qualifies as a definite form of harassment by unjust and irrational accusation. And, considering it is an article which he has subsequently said he never edited, I believe his comments on it to Jayjg here are a clear instance of stalking as well, in this case, apparently, stalking for the purpose of engaging in making false claims about others, or harassment. here is yet another instance in which Ignocrates feels it appropriate to add comments, which this time are somewhat reasonable, to discussions in which he had no part. Probably could be called "stalking" as well. Further evidence of "stalking" here. I once again find it amusing that Ignocrates seems to even at this late date feel that the previous RSN discussions about these topics are not so important as the biased opinions of himself, an admitted (at least former) adherent of a non-notable group which supports these claims, but gets little if any support in the academic community, and Michael, who seems to have been just as passionately fond of another website and a book by a non-notable self-published author. This is perhaps the least rational, least supportable, and most really incompetent attempt at harassment from this individual. Yes, the records will show I was inactive for a very long time. Why? I had, as I have said, been bashed over the head such that I had prolonged unconsciousness and had, as a result, suffered seizures for some months as a result. On that basis, and, apparently, no other, as he produced no others, Ignocrates saw fit to question whether I was mentally competent to edit. I am completely unaware of there being any sort of precedent, and I can only assume that it was yet another attempt on the part of this editor to harass and try to intimidate me to not try to ensure that his own very, very questionable conduct not get the supervision it deserves. It should also be noted what Jayjg's response was. Later, here I requested that Jayjg respond to Ignocrates' request. Please note how Ignocrates tries to once again engage in distraction with his comments, which strikes me as being extremely irrational, but in keeping with his regularly exhibited long term habit of basically just adding commentary which has little if anything to do with his own request. At User talk:Jayjg/Archive 40#Talkback he departs from his previous norm, adding the attack commentary to his own talk page and making a "talkback" link to it. Granted, that isn't as bad or as obvious as a lot of his earlier comments, but it still probably qualifies as some sort of misconduct. Perhaps, in this case, because he knew how baseless and irrational the request was, and did not want it to draw any attention to what is I think fairly clearly overt, unsupported harassment. At User talk:Jayjg/Archive 41#Reopen arbitration he requests that arbitration be reopened, again using a nickname which he seems to indicate I might find objectionable, and making the rather laughable comment that by checking on the quality of an editor with a fairly clear and indicated bias that I am in some way "at it again" by checking on whether his bias continues to be demonstrated in its edits. Honestly, based on the relevant discussion, I believe the evidence supports that it might well have continued to do so. I also therein refer to other instances of Ignocrates stalking me onto the talk pages of other sometimes problematic editors as well. I think it was shortly after this attempt at harassment that Ignocrates finally started to leave Jayjg alone on these matters, and instead turned to Dougweller as the target for his harassing comments against me. It also provides, as I indicate toward the end of the thread, that this is perhaps yet another of what was even then a rather pronouned, long-term habit of Ignocrates of trying to avoid any sort of substantive conduct regarding content by engaging in or starting basically irrelevant distractions elsewhere, which has been a rather persistent habit of his over the years.

On to Dougweller's talk page. User talk:Dougweller/Archive 23#James Tabor seems to contain not only unfounded allegations, but unfounded inflammatory statements that Ignocrates clearly states are "rhetorical," which, of course, does not mean that they aren't objectionable. In fact, honestly, rhetorical abuse is probably even worse. The discussion at User talk:Dougweller/Archive 26#Gospel of the Hebrews displays both the total hypocrisy of this editor and his willingness to threaten others for no good reason. The same editor who in the links above clearly called posting to WikiProject Christianity "canvassing" in this thread demands that In ictu oculi post to another WikiProject talk page. And, of course, it also displays the irrationality and belligerence of Ignocrates as well, not like there has ever really been much of a question regarding that. He also seems to acknowledge the unacceptability of his own actions, after I indicated there might be sufficient grounds to take him to ANI as well.

Tendentious editing and other instances of recent misconduct by Ignocrates

At Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration Committee/Clerks#Reopening a case, Ignocrates makes the wildly inaccurate statement that his edit history shows he never edited a page. While true, it is also true that he had complained about that editing on multiple different pages, as I have indicated above. On that basis, I believe there is reason to believe his editing there clearly qualifies as stalking per WP:STALK, as it is a page he had never himself shown any interest in, and his attempts at misdirection though inaccurate statements are close enough to outright dishonesty to qualify as some form of civility violation. One of the most recent examples of fairly regular misconduct from this editor is his rather lengthy history of trying to sidetrack significant discussion regarding matters of substance with hectoring comments elsewhere. One of the most recent examples occurred when I indicated on Talk:Gospel of the Hebrews that the article he had recently nominated for GA was to my eyes clearly unbalanced, given its lack of attention to the multiple documents which have been referred to by that name, according to highly regarded reference sources. Since that time, he has refused to address the matter, and instead seemed to engage in irrelevant, sometimes off-topic attempts at baiting, such as this comment which once again seems to support the somewhat amusing contention that he is able to read minds and know the intentions of others, something he rather regularly presumes to himself. I also note how on the Talk:Gospel of the Hebrews page he once again seems to be indulging in his habitual stonealling and refusal to respond to points made. This edit indicates once again both Ignocarates' inability or refusal to even try to address relevant and reasonable points made in favor of the stupid, irrelevant insults which he so clearly prefers. John Carter (talk) 01:14, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Recent examples of clearly prejudicial comments on user talk pages, in fairly clear violation of WP:CANVASS: in which he jumps to a conclusion which was so far as I know never actually even implied here When he shows the transparent gall to indulging in an outright lie obviously discredited by the evidence for no apparent purpose other than to impugn me, here in which this person has the gall in his edit summary to accuse me of improper behavior and incompetence because I seek to get the article to adhere to guidelines, unlike him. This comment] of the kind completely inappropraite to talk pages, and, honestly, of a nature one would not expect from anyone who could reasonably be described as either adult or competent. This comment seems to be made specifically for the purposes of harassment and baiting, much like, honestly, just about all of his comments at Talk:Gospel of the Hebrews, few if any of which even remotely relate to anything but mindless, stupid ad hominem attacks.

Further as yet nonsectioned material

Multiple discussions regarding Ovadyah/Ignocrates' apparent acceptance as Shemayah Phillips as a reliable source, as per here. Earlier discussion, which has not been updated in months, on this topic can be found at User talk:John Carter/Ebionites#Evidence of possible POV/COI on the article. Indications on this page Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ebionite Jewish Community (3rd nomination) indicate that Ovadyah/Ignocrates and Michael Price effectively violated policies and guidelines to attempt to recreate an article which had already been found to not meet notability guidelines twice, apparently as a form of collusion to promote these non-notable neo-Ebionites. It should be noted that the mediation involved only myself, Ovadyah/Ignocrates, and Michael. It is also more than interesting that, after Ovadyah had been the one to request the involvement of others in the events which led to the first ArbCom on the Ebionites, and after Michael had been sanctioned there, both Michael and Ovadyah, who as per the discussions on the various archived talk pages of Ebionites and early mediation, now agreed to basically collude to promote Tabor. The only thing which had really changed in the interim was I myself noting the frequency with which Ovadyah/Ignocrates had historically indicated he considered the Ebionite Jewish Commuinity and its founder reliable sources, and the fact that, despite my best efforts, I could find no evidence whatsoever that the book The Jesus Dynasty with which Ovadyah/Ignocrates was and possibly still is so profoundly infatuated ever received any sort of positive, or even neutral, academic review. Later, Tabor himself, on his user talk page here, admitted that the book had never even been submitted for academic review, which basically indicates that it almost certainly does not meet RS standards for anything beyond Tabor's own personal opinions, and does not qualify for inclusion here in any articles not directly about him and/or his work.