User talk:AlmostGrad - Misplaced Pages

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Welcome!

Hello, AlmostGrad, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome!

May 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Streisand effect may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 05:51, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

AlmostGrad, you are invited to the Teahouse

Hi AlmostGrad! Thanks for contributing to Misplaced Pages.
Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Misplaced Pages and get help from peers and experienced editors. I hope to see you there! Ushau97 (I'm a Teahouse host)

Visit the TeahouseThis message was delivered automatically by your robot friend, HostBot (talk) 01:16, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Welcome!

Welcome to Misplaced Pages, AlmostGrad! Thank you for your contributions. I am TheOriginalSoni and I have been editing Misplaced Pages for some time, so if you have any questions feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Misplaced Pages:Questions or type {{helpme}} at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes (~~~~); that will automatically produce your username and the date. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! TheOriginalSoni (talk) 06:54, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Suburban Express article

Hello,

While I do want that article to stay in the best shape possible, I must warn you that your recent additions to the page (about his Reddit activities) are potentially as damaging to the article as his original comments. We at Misplaced Pages put Verifiability over everything else, and your claims, though possibly true, are not sourced. I ask you to remove it, and let someone with less COI to edit that article. I suggest that you simply suggest edits at the talk page of the article. That will be the best way for you to go forward.

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 17:27, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

OK, I will remove the doxing and impersonation stuff and suggest it on the Talk page. AlmostGrad (talk) 18:32, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi TheOriginalSoni, I read the Verifiability page, and it seems like the source does not necessarily have to be a published news article referring to the evidence, but the evidence can directly be used as a source too (My understanding is that primary sources can also be cited, though secondary sources are preferable - is that correct?). In that case, I have direct evidence of doxing (this is also an example of impersonation of a real person who wrote a negative review of the company on Yelp), impersonation of reddit accounts, threat of lawsuits by mail and on Reddit, and demands by email to remove unfavorable information about the company. I am not sure how credible Imgur/Reddit links are considered here, but the published articles in Boing Boing, Ars Technica, Popehat, Techdirt, The Daily Dot, etc. were themselves written on the basis of such material. I also understand that verifiability does not guarantee inclusion, a neutral third party will be the best judge of what is relevant, important and deserves to be included.

P.S. I followed your suggestion and created a Talk page entry.

I also don't know if this is the correct place to discuss this (or whether you will be able to see this or be notified of this message). I have only been on Misplaced Pages for a week and am still figuring things out. Thank you for your patience and helpfulness! AlmostGrad (talk) 07:05, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello, and Welcome!

I recieved a notification for your message. Because of the way notifications now work here, just linking my name (as you did) on your talk page while submitting the message is enough to alert me.

You are partially correct in this case. Athough our policy states that secondary sources are preferrable over primary ones, there is a very different interpretation of it than what you understood. Primary sources are much less reliable than secondary sources, and per this section of our policy, "Questionable claims need strong sources" (Not exact paraphrasing, but thats the widely accepted consensus).

What this means in our context, is that while primary sources "can" be used, they are generally used only for simple factual matters and almost never for seriously contentious issues like these. From our (Misplaced Pages's) point of view, while unlikely, anyone can make or forge such sources, which would undermine their authenticity. Which is why we cannot add your claims to the article unless you have other more reliable and (preferably) secondary sources saying the same.

I hope your doubts are cleared now. Feel free to contact me again if you need more help. I may not be available at all times, so the Teahouse and the Misplaced Pages IRC help channel #wikipedia-en-help are also very helpful.

Cheers,

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 09:45, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, TheOriginalSoni. I didn't want to go to the Teahouse because I wanted to ask someone who was already familiar with the issue, the edit wars, the COIs, etc., and I thought some new person at the Teahouse would first need to educate themselves before being able to answer my questions. I think I understand the difference between primary and secondary sources now - secondary sources use the same materials as I have provided (the news publications did, they did not definitively know it was Suburban Express by getting IP addresses from Reddit and tracing it back to the company, they inferred that from behavior, much like the sockpuppet investigations on the basis of behavior on Misplaced Pages), but secondary sources are unbiased and have some distance from the issue and are considered more credible than someone with a COI presenting primary sources - is that correct?

Hello TheOriginalSoni, I have some more questions regarding Verifiability and the Suburban Express article. The two secondary sources on which the Competition section are based are not accessible (the Daily Herald and Russell's Guide references), and the third reference is a self-published document on the company's own webpage. As per the articles/sections on offline sources and self-published sources, shouldn't material which is controversial and challenged be removed? Without direct access to the articles, it cannot be verified if the content in the Competition section is actually what the articles say, or is a favorably-interpreted, exaggerated, cherry-picked version of it. AlmostGrad (talk) 04:47, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Hey,

I've replied at that talk page; I'll just paste it here-

Hello,
Please note that there is nothing stopping anyone from citing any sources that are not available online. Editors are free to cite offline sources, as long as they provide enough details so anyone with an access to a decent library can find and verify those sources.
Also, Primary Sources, while discouraged, can be allowed for indisputable non-controversial facts.
TheOriginalSoni (talk) 13:05, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Given your last few edits, I ask you not to edit that article AT ALL. Given the history of that article, its been through a lot to become nearly neutral, and you edits are making them VERY non-neutral. Please ONLY use the talk page to suggest edits, as I've also suggested NegatedVoid to do, but refrain from directly editing the article. You can also suggest edits to CorporateM, but directly editing the article seems to be a bad idea.

Thanks,

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 13:10, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi TheOriginalSoni - OK, I won't edit it, but can you tell me why you say "last few edits"? I removed the doxing and impersonation part as soon as you told me to do so, what else was wrong in your opinion? Do you suggest I don't even make corrections - for example, the 3rd reference has a wrong date (2019) now. AlmostGrad (talk) 16:13, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

I was slightly concerned with your linking of his name to the website, and very concerned with your question above. Your COI seems to be coming in the way of editing, which I do not want. So I think you suggesting edits is way better.

Corrections should be fine, but anything substantial is probably better discussed.

I have PMed you on reddit via a throwaway. Please respond to that.

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 17:35, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Please reply to my reddit PM as soon as you come back. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 18:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Lincoln Land express

I added some references to Lincoln Land express. You may want to revisit Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Lincoln Land express. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 06:16, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation

Shitty Watercolour, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Misplaced Pages. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk.
If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider leaving us some feedback.

Thank you for helping improve Misplaced Pages!

EagerToddler39 (talk) 01:18, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Shitty Watercolour for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Shitty Watercolour is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Shitty Watercolour until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Neo12345292 (talk) 19:49, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Trudy Haynes

Hi, A while ago we were working on an AfD on Trudy Haynes. It turns out that the original submission was copied from answers.com. See this output from Dcoetzee's Duplication Detector. What is not wholesale copying is a result of the editing work that we did. - tucoxn\ 11:27, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

BLP issues

Hi, if I've understood correctly you have some kind of offwiki dispute with the owner of Suburban Express. If that's correct, I want to draw your attention to our BLP policy, which states:

Misplaced Pages is not a forum provided for parties to off-wiki disputes to engage in or continue their hostilities. Experience has shown that misusing Misplaced Pages to perpetuate legal, political, social, literary, scholarly, or other feuds and disputes is harmful to the subjects of biographical articles, to the other parties to the dispute, and to Misplaced Pages itself. Therefore, an editor who is involved in a significant off-wiki controversy or dispute with another individual, or who is an avowed rival of that individual, should not edit that person's biography or other material about that person, given the possible conflict of interest.

I hope as a new editor you can focus on issues not related to this person or company, in your own interests as well as his. The best thing now is to allow completely uninvolved editors decide how to handle the various claims and sources, both on talk pages and on the affected articles. Many thanks, SlimVirgin 20:46, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

How is it fair of you to ask me to stay away from the discussion while soliciting input from the party with a CoI in the other direction? I have disclosed my CoI from the very start (unlike the editors who have advocated for Suburban Express), and in accordance with Misplaced Pages policies and advice I was given, I have not edited the article in a long time - I have only made suggestions on the talk page. In fact, I am not violating the policy you have cited above, if I understood it correctly. AlmostGrad (talk) 21:18, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages

I have a lot more experience than you around here, so you might watch and learn. ;-) Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 20:10, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Website

I did see the page you pointed out, plus a bunch of others, but I felt no need to be more specific than I was. I really don't want to look at that kind of stuff. Thanks for the note, Drmies (talk) 02:51, 9 November 2013 (UTC)