Misplaced Pages

User talk:Doc Tropics

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Doc Tropics (talk | contribs) at 16:17, 21 June 2006 (have you read 'self-mockery' on my Userpage?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 16:17, 21 June 2006 by Doc Tropics (talk | contribs) (have you read 'self-mockery' on my Userpage?)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

Welcome!

Hello, Doc Tropics, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  Timrem 18:16, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Formatting Edits

Timrem, I've realized that I need to learn a lot more about formatting and adding edits before I make a serious effort to contribute anything. I sure hope I didn't screw up your Talkpage too badly. Thanks for your patience with a silly newbie :) Doc Tropics 19:07, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

No problem, I'll fix my talk page. If you start a line with a space, it won't indent, but put all the text in a box. To indent, you can use a colon (:). I started making a list somewhere of editing markup, I'll see if I can find that and give you a link to it.
I looked at Interorbital Systems, they seem to be a valid company. The German Misplaced Pages has an article on them, and doing a simple internet search on MSN gave me a link to a page on the National Geographic website which references them.
If you have any other questions, don't be afraid to ask. I won't always be so quick to answer, though :-) Timrem 19:14, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
I found that markup page I mentioned, it is here. It's not done yet, I might be back to finish it some other time, but it should help a bit. It is, however, on the "Test Misplaced Pages", not the main English Misplaced Pages. Therefore, your login won't work there unless you create an account on that Wiki, as you would have to for any foreign-language Wiki or a sister project such as Wiktionary. The entire test Misplaced Pages is like a giant sandbox, so feel free to do any experimenting there if you want. Hope this helps, and thanks for trying to improve Misplaced Pages! Timrem 19:26, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
You can see Misplaced Pages:Barnstars for all types of barnstars. From there, all you have to do is copy and paste, then replace the word "message" with whatever you want. Timrem 20:00, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Spanish interest

Hey doc. Remember me? I'm your cookie dealer. I read your talk page and since most of the major articles I work on are translations of Spanish featured articles (in Spanish: Artículos destacados), I was wondering if I could call on you if I get stuck or need a second opinion. I am currently working on this translation. Oh, and feel free to drop by my talk page if you have any newbie (or other) problems—this place can be daunting for newcomers.--Fuhghettaboutit 22:46, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for replying. I would love it if you reviewed the article for errors but note that some text has been modified and added to with outside research. I wasn't necessarily requesting this however; rather I was hoping to add you to my list of people to call on if I get into trouble with difficult passages in the future. I just posted the article as an example of translation efforts.--Fuhghettaboutit 23:41, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Hi again F, looks like we just posted to each other at about the same time, heh heh. I'm replying here but you can copy this to your page if you prefer. What I was trying to say was feel free to contact me if I can help (yes, put me on your list), but I'm probably not competent to do more than check spellings, etc. Also, please let me know about any issues that you think I should be aware of, or which might be interesting. I want to make serious and useful contributions to WP, but I'm also interested in learning more about the community here and how to get along in it. For example, I'm intentionally limiting myself to noncontroversial userboxes and a simple sig due to the influence of certain Admins whose opinions I respect. Plus of course, Jimbo said so :) One of the things I quickly realized when I first started reading WP is that people skillls are at least as important as editing/writing/academic-type skills if someone wants to be able to make serious contributions and not waste their time in revert/edit/flame wars. Also, (despite my familiarity with WP:Bold), I've decided to adopt the first line of the Hippocratic Oath "Before all, do no harm....". Until I've learned a lot more, I'm only going to be WP:Bold in sandboxes :) Happy Editing! Doc Tropics 00:18, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Indeed. Would that we had more new users like you. I have no userboxes as the whole debate, both pro and con, disgusts me. Let's build an encyclopedia! (and waste no time at all arguing about the drapes). I have a few suggestions for pages to check out to learn about the community and that at the same time you might find interesting (of course policy pages are de rigeur for learning about Misplaced Pages): AfD; WP:RFA; WP:RFC; WP:FAC and WP:FA; WP:PR; and Special:Newpages. --Fuhghettaboutit 03:55, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Well said Fugh, and I might just steal that quote: Let's build an encyclopedia! (and waste no time at all arguing about the drapes). I do like that :)

Thanks for all the great links to policy and procedures. I hadn't seen Special:Newpages before and I'll be sure to spend some time there. I also took the time to re-read through the other links since you clearly think they merit attention. Once I am more experienced I look forward to participating in many of those areas. And on a happy note...I've noticed some Botany related articles which might benefit from the inclusion of Climate Zone info. I'm going to dig through some reference books and see if I can actually make a real contribution! Doc Tropics 06:24, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Welcome

Hi, Doc Tropics. I hope you like Misplaced Pages and choose to stay. Cduffner 03:03, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Greeatings and Welcome. While I certainly apprecitate your keen interest in me, I do have a few questions about your post if you could spare to answer at your leisure.

I was watching WP:RC and noticed an exchange between you and 'Grape Ape'. I just wanted to compliment you for being so WP:CIV in the face of what amounted to vandalism. You managed to be firm while admirably restraining yourself when provoked with foolishness. I just wanted to let you know that someone had noticed and taken the time to say 'thanks' for your efforts :) Happy Editing Doc Tropics 09:38, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Sir (or miss?) I am wondering why you think I provoked this gentleman? You say he showed great civility in what amounted to vandalism. I said nothing ill of him, and I stopped any edits he found to be not of his liking as soon as I received his request. What restraint did he show? I was blocked for three hours after I asked him to explain why South Park reference on Global Warming was not welcome and/or vandalism.(again I did not re-post any matters after he asked me too) Please note that I will not ask his permission for he is well above my status on Misplaced Pages and I will dutifully follow his orders to the letter, I am troubled that you think I personally attacked him and caused him to bite his tongue for my evils. Again I really appreciate your interest in my interests and in me so please don't hesitate to leave a message at your complete leisure.--The great grape ape is straight out of the know 14:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Grape Ape, thanks for taking the time to express your concerns in such a civil and well-worded fashion. I believe that this kind of constructive dialog between individuals acting in good faith is one of the great strengths of the WP project. As a brand new editor here I'm looking forward to this exchange as a learning experience, and I'd like to thank you in advance for helping me to become a better editor. You have raised a number of points which I'll try to address individually.
    • Provocation - I absolutely did not mean to imply that you had personally provoked or attacked William M. Connolley. In point of fact, all of your Talkpage edits were extremely civil and I'd like to compliment you for that :) I used the term 'provocation' in reference to an act that would be considered vandalism (which I'll amplify on below, see Global Warming header). Honesty compels me to admit that I used the term 'foolishness' in reference to a comment which I regarded as specious (your South Park defense). In retrospect, I should not have used potentially inflammatory language and I apologize for that. It was not in any way intended as an attack.
    • Original intent - I have noticed that the editors and admins who put lots of effort into Anti-vandalism activities tend to draw a lot of heat on themselves. My original intent was really nothing more than to compliment William for his efforts and let him know that they had been noticed and appreciated. I try to give contributors a 'pat on the back' whenever I can since so much good work goes unnoticed otherwise.
    • Global Warming - is an extremely controversial topic and the current article represents some very hard work by editors with different views who are working together to make the article a better entry. Most of those editors would probably regard the insertion of an essentially irrelevant cartoon as vandalism. If your intent really was to enhance the quality of the article then your efforts might have been better received if you you had discussed them on the Talkpage first. However, I suspect that your real intent was to inject some humor into an often terse and contentious dialog (and please do correct me if I have the wrong impression). While I might support the use of levity to defuse potentially hostile eruptions, I don't think that the article's main page is the best place for that either. Again....the Talkpage is a great place to discuss these issues and any contributions that other editors might take strong exception to. While we are indeed admonished to be WP:Bold in our efforts, I have seen that the very best articles are the ones where editors work together to achieve concensus rather than taking unilateral actions that will inevitably lead to reverts.
    • Status - I think WP generally tries to avoid or minimize issues of status. The perception seems to be that all of us, even Admins (sometimes refered to as janitors) are equal contributors to this exciting project. Please don't feel that you are somehow a 'lesser' editor simply because William has more experience (than either of us) or an Admin's tools (mop and bucket). For whatever it might be worth, I've noticed that you have a longer history (chronologically) than I do on WP, but I have no doubt that we can both make valuable contributions to the project if we try to focus on adding useful content.
    • I'm going to stop now because this response is getting so long that even I am getting bored with it; I hope I haven't put you to sleep :) I hope that you will find my input to be constructive and useful, as that is my only intent. Please do feel free to respond if you think that my perceptions are incorrect or if I have missed some important point. If you could post any such response to this page, I think that will help keep the dialog coherent and easy to follow. In closing, I would like to add one completely personal (and possibly biased) observation:
I saw the episode of South Park that you referenced, and in all honesty...I laughed my ass off! It was hilarious. However...that still doesn't mean the cartoons belonged in the article's main page :) I do hope that this can be a learning experience for all of us (myself included) which will ultimately lead to more and better contributions to the project which we are all a part of! Happy editing! Doc Tropics 17:08, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Dates?

Hi,

First, thank you for the compliment, which this wiki-gnome doesn't deserve. :) As for the issue at hand, you have stumbled on to one of those small editorial disputes that, despite utter triviality, manages to inflame the passions of several of our regular editors. There is a setting in Misplaced Pages preferences allowing users to specify whether they prefer American (January 20, 2003) or European (20 January 2003) date-styling. Misplaced Pages is smart enough to display dates according to these preferences if they are wiki-linked, ex. January 20, 2003. Irrespective of how any editor types a date, a wikilinked date will display according to the individual reader's preference. NB: the Manual of Style says that, notwithstanding this, editors writing an article should type dates as appropriate for the topic (American dating for "American topics", eg. George Washington; European for "European topics", eg. George III; and either for "neutral topics", eg. Earth.)

However, these preferences matter only for full dates; there is no agreement about whether dates like 2003, or March 2003 should be linked. Some argue that all such links are distracting; some, that only the first instance in any article should be linked; and some, that every date should be linked for user-ease. I don't care personally, but I suppose I am most happy with the third camp. Some serious editors really care about this, though, for reasons I don't grasp. In general, a large middle-ground agrees it is bad form to edit an article only to add or remove date wiki-links. Editors adding true content to article may do as they wish with linking.

Although this is the middle-ground's "truce", very experienced editors will occasionally actually "edit war" over linking and delinking. Most people think this is a bit loony, but at least one respected admin I know of, User:Quadell, left Misplaced Pages over the tension stemming from a date-link edit war.

So, there you go. My advice is that you should never edit an article just to link or delink dates, but do as you wish when adding content, and certainly in spaces outside article-space. Ignore date edit-warriors, and maybe stifle a secret giggle about how silly it is for people to waste such emotion over such minor detail. :) Best wishes, Xoloz 02:15, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Even though this isn't even my talk page, and I can't be bothered to tell Xoloz, I have to say that taught me a lot. A lot. It also reminded me of how silly Misplaced Pages is... o_O Jobjörn (Talk | contribs) 00:15, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
I made a point of telling him what a great response that was (it's on his Talkpage). One of the fascinating paradoxes of WP is that it contains both mind-boggling silliness and truely profound wisdom, yet through some kind of bizarre intellectual alchemy the two elements synthesize and distil down into nuggets of pure gold. I've seen one article after another caught up in a conflagration of controversy before finally emerging stronger for it in the end. Have I mixed enough metaphors yet, or shall I go on? :) Doc Tropics 00:39, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
It was a great amount of metaphors indeed, but it was all very true. On a sidenote, all pages have been speedily deleted now, leaving only our Timeline of space exploration. It needs information incorporated from Space exploration, though. Jobjörn (Talk | contribs) 01:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Timeline of space exploration

WOW! You are fast. Great start on the new page, it's a huge improvement over the previous version. I'll put more specific comments on the Talkpage for the article. Happy editing :) Doc Tropics 01:23, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

No, not really - there wasn't much to put in there, was it? Tabbed browsing helps, though. Get Firefox if you haven't already. ;) Jobjörn (Talk | contribs) 01:29, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I haven't got Firefox yet, but it seems like I should. I'll see you in Timeline after I've done some research. Doc Tropics 01:36, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Sure thing. :) Jobjörn (Talk | contribs) 01:54, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

With Extra Chocolate Chips

You got a hole-in-one on the quote :)

Next time I'll be trickier, but I want to see if anyone else can tag the quote you left behind Doc Tropics 02:26, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Actually I just googled it, found some vague Indiana Jones links, and then checked it on imdb.com. You should see 's challenges, THOSE are hard... Jobjörn (Talk | contribs) 02:28, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

village pump

It's all tidied up now. You probably used the box following the section rather than at the top of the section; easy enough to do. Minor edit glitches are no big deal. (I didn't just move your edit the first time because some consider that poor form.) -R. S. Shaw 03:44, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Nazis

Wow - that was actually unintentional! Is it possible that, if the first one to call his opponent a nazi loses, then the first one to call himself a nazi wins? I enjoyed your comment, but it was a good hour and a half later when I made those grammar edits, and had forgotten. "Lamentable"... that works I think. :) -GTBacchus 04:21, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I knew there was a sense of humor in there somewhere :) Coincidence or not, it really made me chuckle because, chronologically, they did come in sequence that way. It's a good essay, although I didn't bother to say so (I thought that part would be obvious). Are you planning to expand on it, or to keep it short and simple? I agreed with the Anon IP section too, and I'm glad you cleaned it up. I guess I'm not bold enough for that yet. Happy editing. Doc Tropics 04:37, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
It's actually my first Misplaced Pages essay, and I'm not sure where it'll go. If the response continues to be positive for a few days, I'll try adding it to the "See also" sections of WP:AGF and WP:VAND; that'll get it more views and more feedback and more improvements. I've got some other thoughts I've been chewing on that I may try writing up as well. -GTBacchus 05:33, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I do think it's worth drawing attention to it, but maybe something subtle like...HEY LOOK AT THIS!!!. I'll keep an eye on it. Anything that reduces wiki-stress is a good thing :) Doc Tropics 09:46, 20 June 2006 (UTC) (oops, i forgot to sign this at the time, so I added my sig later)

Iris sibirica

Hi Doc Tropics - happened on your note on SBJohnny's page, I've expanded on the species a bit (and moved it to its sci name, as all the other iris species pages are). On your hardiness zone query, generally if they're added I don't remove them, but personally I don't tend to think they are particularly useful, as the system is not too good a predictor of successful cultivation (see the para I added on the hardiness zone page, re Shetland and Alabama: same zone, but very different climates). Up to you whether you want to add them or not. Hope this helps! - MPF 18:29, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

As I mentioned on my talk, I like having them there... though it's true that the low number (minimum survivable winter temps) is probably the only universally useful one. There are also the AHS heat zones, California Sunset Zones, etc., to make things more confusing (and/or useful). SB Johnny 00:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Project Horticulture and Gardening

Sorta related to the hardiness zones thing... feel like joining a project (Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Horticulture_and_Gardening)? I started it a few months ago but it hasn't gotten a lot of play as yet. Hardiness zones, soil/sun/shade preferences, etc. are among the things I'd like to see added to articles (maybe even a "hortobox" to compliment the "taxobox"?

A lot of people use the 'net in general to find information about gardening... I think WP (and WB) could go pretty far in meeting the need! SB Johnny 15:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow, my first invite to join a project! Thanks SBJ, I'm really looking forward to working on these topics, but let me offer a caveat: I am a rank amateur! I lack the depth of knowledge that you and your horticultural compatriots have, but I'd be happy to help where I can. Regarding your suggestion, I think the idea of a "hortobox" is excellent, and modeling it after the "taxobox" would go a long way towards giving the articles a certain consistency and completeness. Count me in :) Doc Tropics 16:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)