Talk:Naga, Camarines Sur - Misplaced Pages

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Someone put Elbert pogi after listing down Penafrancia, in the list of barangays of Naga City. Please take this out.

Regional Center??

http://bicol.da.gov.ph/Statistics/regional_profile.html please read Kuya Kyon 12:04 23 May 2007 —Preceding undated comment added 16:06, 22 May 2012 (UTC).

New article to replace copyrighted one

The new article is at Naga City/Temp. Once the old page is deleted, please replace it with the new one. Thanks. TheCoffee 29 June :54 (UTC)

Naga City Income Class

Is Naga City "highly urbanized"? Based on the NSCB definition which is linked by the "Income Class" link in the infobar, the city is not highly urbanized because it did not meet the population criterion. The person who modified this is anonymous with its IP belonging to PLDT. Ianalis 14:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

It is not (yet) "highly urbanized" according to Philippine Census definitions.

This article reads more like a tourist brochure than an encyclopedia entry. It is full of unverified and/or unverifiable claims and superlatives such as "undeniably the most progressive city", "the acknowledged financial center". Acknowledged by whom? I would like to see concrete evidence of these claims, such as reliable sources and references. Otherwise, such claims are simply the writer's subjective views, violates Misplaced Pages's NPOV policy and have no place in an encyclopedia article. --87.194.3.169 21:33, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Based on latest statistic office criteria, no Bicolano city, much less Naga, can claim to be highly urbanized. In fact no Bicol city can even claim to be 1st class. I was told that in some city recognition contests in the Philippines, Naga has been categorized among highly urbanized cities. Hmmm. Anyway the tag "undeniably the most progressive city" is for the eyes to see. Perhaps you have to see for yourself why it's really like that. For individuals like me who travel and transact for business all over Bicol daily, it is not difficult to believe it so. As regards the "acknowledged financial center" thing, the central bank says so.--Bicololdtimer 07:19, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

With all due respect to Bicololdtimer, although you are correct in saying that no Bicol city has reached the "highly urbanized" status, you are wrong to say that there are no "first class" (in the Philippine Census sense of the term) city in the region. Naga and Legazpi cities are both first class cities according to government websites. As for the "undeniably most progressive city" tag, unfortunately, hearsay and personal opinion are not enough to prove this. Perhaps a more specific adjective would be better, such as "a business-friendly city" or "business-oriented culture" would be more appropriate, if this is what is meant by "progressive", which can mean anything. Furthermore, any remarks made by the Central Bank (or presumably someone who represents that institution) should be appropriately referenced, if not, it should be omitted. I think we should also avoid tourist-brochure language when writing about cities, provinces and countries. It would be great if someone could expand on the History section, which stops at 1948 - actually the same could be done for the other Bicol cities. I think this is better than listing all the FM and AM radio stations in the city. --87.194.3.169 20:44, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree that Naga is the center of religion in the region as this is the focal point of the Penafrancia Festival. But I have serious doubts about it being the financial, cultural, educational, ...etc...etc...center. According to this article it seems to be the center of everything in Bicol! It does sound very biased. --62.140.210.158 12:21, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Reading through article and as a Bicolana retired banker who lived and worked for decades each in Cam. Sur, Cam. Norte, and Albay provinces and finally settling down in Naga City, I can only agree Naga is center of almost everything in Bicol. Well, almost but not quite. It is not difficult to believe once you get to live in Naga and rest of places in Bicol, which incidentally is among depressed regions in the country. Being an employee who travelled a lot on the job for over 30 years, coming over to Naga I would notice vibrance and progress whose magnitude is lacking anywhere else in Bicol, with due respect to the other beautiful places, no offense meant. But I must hasten to add that perhaps only the blind won’t see the great difference. For one, available night life and variety of eating places are something to be thankful for and crow about in Naga. There are other aspects one cannot disagree about because of figures involved compared to other places. Center of religion, of course it’s Naga due to Penafrancia (though am not Catholic, but I can indulge). Educational center of course it’s Naga because it has most number of universities (6 in all, am teaching in 1 now) and other big institutions. Financial center of course it’s Naga since it has most no. of banks, than anywhere else in the region (remember I was a banker before). The sheer no. of banks alone is enough indication of progress because, believe you me, no bank would establish in a place if it’s not profitable to do so. Cultural center, well, I don’t know how that came to be, but that’s rather vague, so I don’t think so. SM, biggest retailer and mall owner with its businesswise management, has reportedly decided to build it’s 1st ever mall in Bicol in Naga. Also reportedly Pacific Mall in Naga is also to be constructed with a planned size twice bigger than that of its existing mall in another Bicol city (but seems to have chickened out because of SM’s plans). Rather than be accused as sounding very biased, perhaps people should come over and see and experience for themselves why Naga is where the main action is in Bicol now and profit from it.--Isarog Lass 12:07, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

This city's wiki article has TOO MANY EXAGGERATIONS! And yet it is classified as a B-Grade? Give me a break. It is not the blah-blah-blah center in the Bicol Region. For instance, its claim of being the educational center of Bicol Region is belied by the fact that the regional state university is located in Legazpi City, which has undoubtedly produced the most topnotchers in several board exams in the region and will now have the most modern medical school in the region. Financial center? If it is, it has yet to surpass the volume of bank deposits of Legazpi City. The number of banks is hardly an indication.103.14.62.48 (talk) 04:55, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Unreferenced content

I've marked the article as unreferenced. Although I agree with the people who mentioned good things about Naga (see above discussion), anectodal evidence is not enough in an encyclopedia. In fact, it's not allowed since it would be considered as original research, as far as I know. I tried adding {{fact}} tags but realized there's a lot to be inserted. I hope someone would add citations so that our (including me) assertion that Naga is great would be backed up. I encourage the posters above to add their references. I might add some in the future, if I have time. -- Ianalis 13:36, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Another user has kindly pointed out that Naga City is in fact rated

'second class'

and PARTIALLY  urbanized (not highly urbanized) as per the NSCB's latest data (June 2007): http://www.nscb.gov.ph/activestats/psgc/listcity.asp

--Agniilepurohutam 20:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Correction: According to the above link, Naga is now fully urbanized instead of partially - I amended the info box to reflect this. I checked to see if its status is already "highly urbanized". According to the same link it hasn't reached this category yet, maybe it will in the next Census, who knows. --Agniilepurohutam 20:20, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Someone edited out your revision. Anyway, can someone please recheck the NSCB data? It might be a typo or there might be some caveats there. I've checked the income statement of Naga City for the passed three years from its website and the income was always above P300M. I'm not a finance/accounting person so I might be wrong. And please cite data after doing so. -- Ianalis 02:55, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Move to Naga City (Camarines Sur)

i think we must move this article to Naga City (Camarines Sur) because it's will be esay to search in wikipedia.--O.waqfi (talk) 12:57, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

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<Cityname> <City>_<City>-2010-10-21T04:50:00.000Z">

There is a discussion regarding the removal of the word "city" from the article titles of Philippine cities. This may imminently affect the article name for Naga, Camarines Sur. For city names which are not unique, disambiguation alternatives are also being presented. Formal request for page move may follow after a reasonable time of discussion. If you wish to participate, please post your comments here. --JinJian (talk) 04:50, 21 October 2010 (UTC)_<City>"> _<City>">

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Jafeluv (talk) 21:40, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Naga City → Naga, Camarines Sur — Part of series of multiple page move requests involving Philippine cities under the category Cities/Municipalities with the same name as other local cities/municipalities (regardless if it is highly urbanized, independent or component city). This request is made after preliminary discussions for the removal of the word "city" from most of the article titles of Philippine cities and providing disambiguation wherever necessary. Some disambiguation may involve using the <cityname>, <provincename> format, regardless if it is highly urbanized, independent or component cities. In here, <provincename> purports to describe the general area and not necessary as the mother political unit of the city, since some people might have wrongly believed that this naming convention is exclusively for Philippine towns only. For more information please see Wikipedia_talk:Tambayan_Philippines/Task_force_LGU#Article_names_for_Philippine_cities:_.3Ccityname.3E_.3Ccity.3E. JinJian (talk) 06:07, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Support for the numerous reasons I have stated over the years. See the linked discussion page in the proposal for details. --seav (talk) 00:47, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Evangelicalism?

There are only two categories of Christian denominations mentioned: Roman Catholic and Evangelicalism. Evangelicalism tends to be considered a subdivision of Protestantism, which would be a broader (and therefore better) category, since not all the churches listed may consider themselves Evangelical, while they are likely to consider themselves Protestant. --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 02:20, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Clean up

This article has an overly strong propaganda tone with many problematic references. For instance, the claim "Most Progressive" has a reference, but it is taken from a public comments section. The claim "most vibrant" is taken from a biased tourism site (and taken out of context!). The claim "Most Globally Competitive" is misquoted (it was rated 9th!) and purely promotional info only. And then there is the claim "premier city". This is a purely subjective, unquantifiable claim. All these statements are referenced using biased or unreliable sources (see WP:SOURCE). These are just 4 examples, but the article is full of biased statements that are contrary to WP:POV and WP:PROPAGANDA. Even if they have a reference, such statements are unacceptable, especially if they are taken from unreliable sources.

Further, the entire Peñafrancia and Kamundagan Festival sections are duplicated. And there is needless and unusual bold formatting, contrary to MOS:BOLD. There are also a few too many pictures, resulting in poor formatting and crowding (see MOS:IMAGES). Plain lists of businesses will also be removed as contrary to WP:DIRECTORY.

So all this will be cleaned up again. If I removed too much content, please explain below why it should be included. -- P 1 9 9 ✉ 14:36, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Does this page seriously deserves a B-Class rating? I highly doubt it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.14.62.233 (talk) 02:47, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

More Cleanup

I stumbled upon the "World War II and Japanese Occupation" section and started cleaning it up- until I hit this:

The Philippine Commonwealth Army on 1942 to 1946 and the Philippine Constabulary 2nd Infantry Regiment on 1944 to 1946 was founding establishment and military active on 1942 to 1946 at the general headquarters and stationed in Naga. Many Bicolano resistance groups was downfall conflicts and insurgent invasion of Naga on 1942 to 1945 and aided and supporting them by the local ground troops under the Philippine Commonwealth Army units and attacking Imperial Japanese soldiers. After the conflict siege, some Bicolano freedom fighters are retreating by the Japanese and before the liberation on Naga by Allied troops until 1945.

To clean that up I would need to be able to guess what its writer(s) meant to say- which is very difficult without knowing the subject matter. Was this translated from another language using Google or Bing translate? Also, "freedom fighters" seems inherently POV. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:00, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Exaggerated Wiki Article

Too many exaggerations and baseless claims. A warning to all who would be visiting and investing in Naga City.103.14.62.48 (talk) 04:58, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Examples (done by User:Dominic McArthur):

1. Naga City is Bicol Region's economic, commercial, trade, tourism, medical, technological, religious, cultural, industrial, educational, financial, and social center.

Remark: source is the city's government site itself, which was more intended for promotional purposes and it is not backed up by real figures and facts.

2.The city of Naga is located within the province of Camarines Sur in the southeastern tip of Luzon at the near the center of the Bicol Region

Remarks: (1) Naga City is very far from the southeastern tip of Luzon island. One just have to look at the map to verify this assertion. From what I know, it is still around 250 kilometers north of the southeasternmost town of Matnog, Sorsogon.

(2) "Near the center of Bicol Region" is also very doubtful.

3. Naga City is Bicol Region's center of commercialization, and industrialization,

Remark: Source cited is promotional in nature and does not include citations.

4. Naga City is easily accessible by air. The city is served by the Naga Airport (WNP), the busiest in Southern Luzon, which is located in the barangay of San Jose in the neighboring town of Pili.

Remark: Not true. Please see discussion below.

5. Naga City is considered to be Southern Luzon's educational center due to its prestigious academic performances of schools, and is the home of six largest universities in the Bicol Region.

Remark: Not a single authority nor an entity has ever considered it as such.

Thank you.Unique Albay (talk) 12:56, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Any such claim that you contest without a reference from a reliable source can be challenged and removed! See my comments above at #Clean up. -- P 1 9 9 ✉ 13:21, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

P199, what sources do you need? And why is there a need for such source? I'm asking this question because I thought my remarks are clear enough.Unique Albay (talk) 03:32, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Naga does not have the busiest airport in Southern Luzon

It does not even have an airport.

If it refers to the airport in Pili, it is still not the busiest airport in Southern Luzon. Here is the list of the busiest airports in the Philippines. The airports located in Southern Luzon are bolded:

Rank/Airport/IATA/City/Total Passengers

1/Ninoy Aquino International Airport/MNL/Manila/33,889,532

2/Mactan-Cebu International Airport/CEB/Cebu/6,712,293

3/Francisco Bangoy International Airport/DVO/Davao/2,963,243

4/Iloilo International Airport/ILO/Iloilo/1,854,427

5/Kalibo International Airport/KLO/Kalibo/1,832,168

6/Lumbia Airport/CGY/Cagayan de Oro/1,614,157

7/Puerto Princesa International Airport/PPS/Puerto Princesa/1,322,925

8/Clark International Airport/CRK/Angeles/1,309,883

9/Daniel Z. Romualdez Airport/TAC/Tacloban/1,149,592

10/Bacolod-Silay International Airport/BCD/Bacolod/1,018,417

11/Zamboanga International Airport/ZAM/Zamboanga/904,668

12/Tagbilaran Airport/TAG/Tagbilaran/734,207

13/Boracay Airport/MPH/Malay/595,564

14/Legazpi Airport/LGP/Legazpi/578,767

15/Bancasi Airport/BXU/Butuan/524,194

16/Sibulan Airport/DGT/Dumaguete/451,112

17/Labo Airport/OZC/Ozamiz/272,850

18/Awang Airport/CBO/Cotabato/246,209

19/Tuguegarao Airport/TUG/Tuguegarao/223,907

20/Roxas Airport/RXS/Roxas/217,552

21/Naga Airport/WNP/Naga/204,458

22/Dipolog Airport/DPL/Dipolog/189,200

23/Laoag International Airport/LAO/Laoag/188,048

From the foregoing list, the Naga airport, which is actually located in Pili, is only third busiest in Southern Luzon.Unique Albay (talk) 07:40, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Laying the ground rules (re: recent April 2014 edits)

This message goes to the editors involved in the recent flurry of editing in this article as well as that in the Legazpi, Albay article. Since I don't know (yet) which editors are on which side of the apparent argument over editing in these articles, I will make this message a little bit generic.

First: can we all agree that by editing Misplaced Pages articles---not just the Naga or Legazpi articles, but any Misplaced Pages article---that we will abide by the core policies of Misplaced Pages editing? These are:

neutral point of view -- in which any addition to an article must be neutral, unbiased and free of self-/promotion or advertising-like language. A few of the edits that I had made on the Legazpi article, for instance, had used language that read like it was lifted from a newspaper ad (something like "So-and-so Cinema is the only cinema that has the latest state-of-the-art equipment"). We are building an encyclopedia article, a reference source, and not a brochure or a promotional material for your city.
verifiability -- in which, if you are inserting something that states a fact about the article, you must be able to back it with a verifiable and reliable source. For the time being, I let some of the unsourced statements stand as I will need more time to review the affected articles (I'll have to sleep in a little bit), but ideall anything you write here must be sourced from a reference material. This means, for example, newspaper articles, textbooks, but not (personal/unofficial) blogs, message boards/forums (like Skycrapercity.com) or Wiki-like websites (like Wikifilipinas). If what you wrote is not supported by references or is not mentioned in any reference material you wrote, don't be surprised if another editor removes that sentence or sentences for those very reasons.
no original research -- in which, you must make sure that you didn't make up anything you write. Sure, Naga or Legazpi may be the oldest or largest city in Bicolandia, but if you wrote something like that and it wasn't supported by any reference material (see previous point), then it may be construed as something that you invented.

Now that I've mentioned these three core principles, you all don't have an excuse :)

I've seen the comments that all of you concerned parties left here, in the Legazpi article's talk page and also on your respective user talk pages. What I saw isn't very pretty. Please be civil towards your fellow editors and make sure you discuss your concerns peacefully. There are other ways to settle disagreements on editing the articles, but using hostile language could only go so far, I'm confident that you are all beyond that.

Also: please note that frequently undoing and changing each other's edits for any reason at all in such a short time period does not constitute vandalism per se, but might be construed as edit warring, which could be a ground for your account to be blocked from editing in Misplaced Pages. Try discussing your concerns on this (or another article's) talk page, or at least notify the user concerned (on his/her talk page) that you want to have that discussion

Questions, comments, reactions related to the Naga or Legazpi articles...please leave them here on the Naga article or on the Legazpi article (depending on what your exact concern is). Or you can also head over to the Misplaced Pages Project: Philippines talk page so that other active Pinoy Wikipedians can help you with your concerns. Or on my talk page, if you so wish. --- Tito Pao (talk) 17:17, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

I am sorry, User:Titopao, but even if your post seeks neutrality, it doesn't appear to be such. Why zero in on the statements mentioned in Legazpi City? There are still many unverified portions of the Naga City Page but were hardly ever touched. Yet you've never mentioned any of those. This alone creates serious doubt as to your neutrality. I am crying foul because my beloved city was vandalized, over and over again. Important facts, although unverified, are deleted all too hastily. And yet I look at other pages, including Naga Page, and I see so many unverified portions which are amazingly untouched! As a Bicolano and as a resident of this region, I know all too well which are true and which are false! Again, I have time and time again said that I am all here for truth and nothing else. Should my posts appear to be untrue because they are unverified and should be deleted, then by all means, apply the very same test to all! I would not hesitate to declare once and for all that I am here to protect the Legazpi City Page and this is where I proudly stand. It needs to be protected, and to be treated EQUALLY, and in the very same manner as all other pages! I stand up for it because I care for the TRUTH.Unique Albay (talk) 05:10, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

About the apparent "favoritism", my response is simple: I just want to put all my comments in one place, and it so happened that I was editing the Naga article when I started drafting this response. If you looked closely at the Legazpi talk page, I also left a link leading to this Talk page. (If I were editing the Legazpi page when I started it, then I would have done it the other way around.) As I said, I'm still taking time to review both articles and will make the corresponding edits. The Naga article is too long (way way longer than the Legazpi article), it was late in the evening last night and I also need to sleep, I just tried to finish last night's Talk page comment before signing out. (I hadn't meant to look into the Naga and Albay articles---I've been spending much of my Wiki-time patrolling vandalisms---but I read the notice in WT:TAMBAY, so I decided to take a look and make some edits. As I've mentioned again, I haven't completed it.) Don't assume that I'm playing favorites here because, among others, I'm not a Bicolano and I've never been to any city or town in Bicol before, I left last night's comments on this place for the reasons I've mentioned.

I'd also like to point out that nobody has ownership over an article. While I understand that your pride for your hometown motivates you to "protect" the Legazpi City article from unwanted edits, that alone doesn't give you sole "ownership" or "custodianship" (or what have you) over that article. If another editor undos or replaces your edits, so be it, that's the way Misplaced Pages works (unless it's an outright vandalism). But if you don't agree with how another editor made the edit, at least try to discuss it with him in the article talk page or the user's talk page. (Or, for Philippine-related articles in general, at the Tambayan.)

I do understand that your position (being a resident of Legazpi City and all) makes you think that there's a lot more you want to include in the Legazpi article. But like what I've mentioned, as much as possible all edits on Misplaced Pages must be backed up by a reliable and verifiable source. If your reference is a printed book instead of a website, that's fine, you can use that, too, as long as you observe proper citation guidelines. If you lack references for some of your edits (especially if it advances a strong claim like, say, "Legazpi is the largest city in the Bicol Region"), then it might be better to defer adding the information until you've found a good reference material that you can use.

One other note: I noticed (in my Watchlist) that you've also left a comment on the Legazpi, Albay talk page. I haven't checked that out yet, so I'll leave my comments here as they are. I'll address your Legazpi, Albay concerns after I've read that one. --- Tito Pao (talk) 06:37, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

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