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Translation issues
I wonder if something can be done about naming a Schloss a castle and a Stadt a city. Respectable sources do it, including the WHS pages and the websites of places, but do we have to follow? Most, I think, derive from Germans translating, without knowing differences enough. Weimar: Schloss is the most generic term, covering many buildings in history and several functions. I wish we didn't have the conflict of List of cities in Germany by population and Free imperial city, many of which don't belong in the other definition, but then Town privileges. Could we perhaps say in an article such as Weimar that it was a Freie Reichsstadt but is no Großstadt? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:57, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
- Well, I don't have very strong feelings about this particular article. I'm not keen on mistranslations becoming established, but I could live with the Schloss being called " . . .Castle" as a proper name, even if it is mainly based on a mistranslation by German sources – names are not always a true reflection of reality. I feel slightly more uncomfortable about writing ". . . is a castle" in Misplaced Pages voice, since that probably misleads the reader – unless there is some evidence that it is in fact a castle (e.g. battlements, etc.)
- Perhaps the conventions should also include a sentence, explaining when to use "palace" (e.g. Schloss Bellevue) and when to use "castle" (e.g. Schloss Neuschwanstein)
- As regards town/city, it could easily be argued that being a "freie Reichstadt" with an imperial charter justifies calling it a city, but the nomenclature has been discussed, and a consensus reached at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Germany/Conventions#Cities, towns and villages, so I think it would be proper to raise it there, possibly quoting a few examples. Here too, I am less concerned about proper names than classifications in Misplaced Pages voice. Since cities are also towns, it should be unobjectionable to write ". . . is a town . . ." and add an explanation (possibly a footnote) with more details.
- Generally, I'm happy with anything that does not mislead the reader, as might result if patriotic editors who live in a particular town get "their" town "upgraded" and towns of a similar status are not "upgraded". I think that is one of the main points of having these conventions.
- --Boson (talk) 15:30, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you, good thoughts. I just found a elaborate source for the Stadtschloss Weimar, translating carefully: The Palace at Weimar, no city in the name, and the only city in the text Erfurt ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:44, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
- ps: I doubt that Neuschwanstein, a artificial playful thing for no defense, should be termed castle, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:45, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
- Perhaps a bad example! I think of it as a "make-believe castle". I would say it's definitely positioned as if for defence, as seen
here. --Boson (talk) 17:07, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
City - town
Just sharing thoughts. Obviously, a city can be defined by population, and also by status. Our article City starts with old history, certainly not the population-city. I wonder a bit why that is not in Town, which is simply placed between village and city. I could imagine a lead for City that defines the different understandings, right in the beginning. I could then imagine redirects such as City by population and City by status, leading to that same explanation. The word city might be pipe-linked one or the other way. Thoughts? Better names? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:59, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
Sorry I took a while to reply. This was mainly because I have been trying, unsuccessfully, to think of something useful to say. Anyway, here are some random thoughts that are probably not much help.
I'm not too keen on the names, but I can't think of anything better. Perhaps the names should follow later, when the content is clearer. I think the problem is that people are not consciously aware of the two concepts. I suspect it is not an issue for "normal people" because people just know which towns deserve to be called cities. It becomes a particular issue in cross-cultural contexts, mainly for translators and writers of international encyclopedias.
I would say there is a difference between casually referring to a settlement as a city ("Blogsville is a city in . . ."), probably largely based on size, and the formal categorization of a settlement as a city ("Blogsville is a city.", with a full stop, or "Blogsville is a city . . ." in an encyclopaedia), largely based on status. Because of the "status" issue and the ambiguity of the term, PR people will, no doubt, also tend to upgrade towns to cities; reliable sources may be a problem.
In the US (or perhaps just some states) the barrier for calling something a city seems to be very low, but the threshold in England is pretty high. Formally, it requires a royal charter that grants city status (as opposed to mere town status). Traditionally, this meant having a cathedral, though there are even some towns with cathedrals that now have only town status). In a cross-cultural context, this may also be mixed up with other administrative issues, e.g. the issue of German kreisfreie Städte, which could perhaps also be compared to the (now historical) English buroughs or American New England towns.
Perhaps the section City#Distinction between cities and towns could be expanded and a longer summary of that be included in the lede. City status in the United Kingdom is also quite interesting.
I wonder if more should also be explained in Misplaced Pages/Project space, not just at WP:GER but also where differences between British and American English are discussed.
Feel free to discuss further, though I'm not sure I can be much help. --Boson (talk) 12:33, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks for your helpful thoughts. I think a start could be to link city, because people from different cultures may have different concepts, and could find that in the lead - hopefully. (In German, we have Dorf - Kleinstadt - Stadt - Großstadt, not to mention specialties, like Kreisstadt etc.) Until the recent discussions, I more or less thought that city equals Großstadt, but obviously it's not that simple ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:37, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
Please participate in the Conversation on Germany
Hi, Thank you for your participation in the image review on discussion on the Germany talk page. The Image has now been reverted for the third time and ruins of Berlin photo is back. I would really appreciate your participation in this discussion and hopefully reaching a consensus. Thanks again.Monopoly31121993 (talk) 19:00, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
RfC picture suggestions
File:Bundesarchiv Bild 183-R77767, Berlin, Rotarmisten Unter den Linden.jpg
--IIIraute (talk) 01:27, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. --IIIraute (talk) 16:18, 22 June 2014 (UTC)