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China proper (Qingzang railway item in ITN)
The article China proper says that this term is controversial or even offensive to many Chinese. I suggest that the wording in ITN be changed to "eastern China" or something like that. --Cam 01:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Pope Pius XII
It says that Pope Pius was "one of few popes in recent history to exercise his papal infallibility". But the dogma of papal infallibility was only defined at the First Vatican Council of 1870, so isn't "recent history" redundant? Eixo 10:06, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
- The declaration says the popes were and are and will be always infallible on ceremonically declared matters of faith and morals, starting with Peter the fisherman. Therefore, popes must be careful not to dig themselves into too big a hole, so they avoid invoking magisterium power on priestly celibate, for example, because sooner or later catholic priests must be allowed to marry or there won't be any priests in 40 or 50 years.
- That's not why priestly celibacy has not been declared ex cathedra (infallibly). It's because celibacy is only a discipline, not a dogma. It is practiced in the latin rite but not in the eastern one. It would not be sinful or impossible for priests to be allowed to marry at some time in the future if the church declared it, which is why it has not been declared infallibly to be true. Polyhymnia
Shouldn't the summary on Main Page first introduce his actual name before using it? — Ambuj Saxena (talk) 11:54, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
- Agreed, this confused me as well. Isopropyl 12:43, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
History of New Jersey FA
"However, the Dutch colony of New Netherland was seized by the British in 1664." - It was not seized by the British as the "British" did not exist until the formation of the Kingdom of Great Britain in 1707. Also British there links to United Kingdom, which did not exist until 1801. It should read "However, the Dutch colony of New Netherland was seized by the English in 1664." which it was. an Siarach
- Speedy response to the above, cheers! An Siarach
- Reading the article, though, it was less of a seize than a take-over. Bazza 09:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
...and first place goes to...
Google July 4 and see WP's position! --hydnjo talk 21:22, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
- Google seems to have more personalized results these days, first result is not Misplaced Pages for me, but I suspect you must click a lot of WP links from Google. Ziggur 21:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
- Ummm, no, but what's a lot. Cleared my cache again and searched July 4. Google came back with this assortment. --hydnjo talk 22:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
- July 4 and July 4th are two different phrases. --Nelson Ricardo 00:06, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- Ummm, no, but what's a lot. Cleared my cache again and searched July 4. Google came back with this assortment. --hydnjo talk 22:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Ruining the results of the World Cup
Why is the result of the Italy Germany game on the front page of wikipedia? I was looking something up for work, and had this game ruined for me. Please take any results down from the main page, as had been the policy previously... I will not be able to use wikipedia for the next week if it keeps results up like this. This is a terrible oversite. RyanEberhart 22:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
- Try not to go to any of the other million or so webpages with news content; they all have the score also. --Descendall 23:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I didn't go to any other news site. I thought wikipedia would be alright since previously they just had a message about "2006 world cup continues in germany". I don't see anything wrong with that, or perhaps having the headline something like "germany/italy match decides first contender for the champion". RyanEberhart 23:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
- C'mon Ryan. Do you really believe our In The News facility should not carry the news? Moriori 23:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
- It's like saying we should just say "something has happened in Asia" as a teaser for television news. Silliness! Karlusss 23:51, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Why don't you just set your watchlist as your homepage? It's a very simple solution. --Madchester 00:39, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- A better idea would be not using Misplaced Pages to promote soccer, but I guess we already threw that principle out the window, didin't we? MrVoluntarist 00:42, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- Well, at work we aren't supposed to change our homepage from the company's intranet page. I guess I can just go to en.wikipedia.org/random_article. And I never said not to carry the news, as indicated by my suggestion of giving the article a title that didn't give away the ending. There are plenty of people who work when these games are going on, I don't think it's that difficult to not give away the ending whenever people want to look up some information. Sure, I know now that I could have just gone to something other than the main page, but I don't really bother to think of that when I'm looking something up, as I'm sure is true for many others. RyanEberhart 00:52, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
It's pretty hard to avoid the result of such an important match; you could just hear it in your way back home. The inclution of this score in the news section is a hot topic; but we should refrain of comparing the football world cup with other sport competitions.Cloviz 00:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- Support – Let's put a big spoiler warning on the ITN section. I wanted to see the results of the North Korean missiles at home but now Misplaced Pages has spoiled it for me. Piet 14:39, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I would agree that even the third place match result be displayed, but the semi-final? No. --Howard the Duck 15:28, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- Third match place is a joke, nobody cares. Semi-final is way more important. Piet 13:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- Somebody does care. Theoretically, the third place match should be the second-most important match, behind the final. But that's another story. --Howard the Duck 12:58, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- The result of the third-place match should be there. Please revert the edit to display it. 200.121.41.208 23:55, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- Somebody does care. Theoretically, the third place match should be the second-most important match, behind the final. But that's another story. --Howard the Duck 12:58, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
World Cup Entry in ITN section
King of Hearts removed this entry (with the edit summary "Misplaced Pages is not a scoreboard"). I considered reverting (because the determination of the final-round teams seems rather significant), but then I noticed that the 2006 FIFA World Cup article has not been updated beyond the standings tables (and contains absolutely no prose pertaining to the match in question.) Meanwhile, Italy national football team and Germany national football team each contain two-sentence updates.
Once again, I'll remind everyone that ITN is not a news ticker. It's a means of highlighting articles that have been written or substantially updated because of a major event. The inclusion criteria should not be ignored for the World Cup, the death of a world leader, or the invasion of Earth by Martians.
If someone would care to improve the encyclopedia by writing a decent summary of the game in question, I'll personally restore the entry (unless the prevailing opinion is that this is an undesirable spoiler). —David Levy 01:29, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- David: "Italy defeats Germany in the first semifinal match of the 2006 FIFA World Cup." Titoxd 01:42, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- Obviously, I'm requesting a reasonably detailed account of the match (not merely its outcome). Something similar to what was written about Super Bowl XL before and during its ITN inclusion would more than suffice.
- Numerous users have stressed these games' importance (some claiming that even the individual first-round matches were more important than the Super Bowl), but few are willing to author encyclopedic coverage. Instead, they believe that the tournament's importance alone is enough to automatically justify a prominent spot on our main page (which they evidently confuse with a news site). I'm sorry, but this simply isn't so. —David Levy 03:49, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- Funny thing that. People see a section on the main page which says "In the news" and they think it should contain news. How silly of them. Moriori 04:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- The section serves as a gateway to articles that have been written or updated to reflect topics in the news. It is not a rundown of the top headlines.
- I don't blame people for their initial misunderstanding (and I've advocated changing the section's name), but many choose to reject explanations of the inclusion criteria (because "this is the World Cup"). —David Levy 04:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- David, I am trying to not be unfriendly, but there is a question you need to answer here -- who appointed you the authority to say that in the news should not include news. I'm beginning to think you have an incomprehensible bias against the most watched sporting contest in history. Moriori 08:31, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- I understood that In the news highlighted articles that had been recently updated to include information about what the rest of the world calls "news". I (and others) have suggested in the past that the section title is misleading people into thinking it's something it isn't which, from the discussions above, seems to be true. The section title really ought to be changed to eliminate these arguments about what should be in it or not. Bazza 08:50, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- Morori, I draw your attention to the notice on the In the News main page: "In the news mentions and links to entries of timely interest—that is, encyclopedia articles that have been updated to reflect an important current event—rather than conventional news items". David has not 'decided' anything; this note has been there since May. Raven4x4x 10:50, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- (undented) The main page is where the problem is and an explanation on another page is not solving it. I agree with Moriori's previous comment that In the news is heading that people see and news is what they therefore expect. Bazza 11:17, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- The page I linked to is not 'another page'. It is a template, and that template is what appears on the main page. The page I linked to is the In The News section of the main page, and the words in the notice certainly apply. Raven4x4x 13:26, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- We're at cross-purposes, I think. I'm talking about what you see on the main page — there is nothing there to say what In the news really is. Bazza 13:59, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- I'm losing track of what the problem is here. You say that people expect the "In the news" section to contain news - well, it does. It just doesn't include all news. I think if it was just titled "News", you might have a point, but "In the news" to me clearly means "(here are some things that are) in the news". It makes to claims to completeness and people should not expect that. What they should expect is that links in the ITN section go to articles that are up to date, and on the whole they do. At the end of the day there is only a very limited amount of space on the Main Page, so the section cannot contain all news; and at the same time it needs a short and snappy title, and "In the news" fits well enough. You're welcome to suggest another, better, title if you wish. But if you're expecting a whole explanation of ITN's purpose right there on the Main Page, you can think again - there just isn't room. — sjorford++ 14:16, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- I'm expecting no explanation at all — it would be silly, as you say. The problem is that what is perceived as a news service (because of its title) in the main page mismatches to a varying degree what most major news services are delivering. I understand why; but the number of comments over time about "why isn't xxx in ITN" indicates that many don't. You can't tell people what to expect — they will create their own expectations on their experiences, in this case seeing something called "In the news" and expecting it to contain the same major news items as CNN, BBC or whatever. "In the news" is very snappy, but apparently not precise enough. If an alternative comes to mind, I'll suggest it. Bazza 15:00, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, ProhibitOnions restored the entry. I reverted (and attempted to explain that this issue doesn't revolve around the mention of the score), and Violetriga reverted back. I posted a message on Violetriga's talk page, and I received the following reply:
Wow. —David Levy 17:11, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I'd like everyone to compare the effort put into German vs Italy to the effort put into Super Bowl XXX, and then just end this endless nonsense, and follow policy. -- Zanimum
Do you guys realize that the world cup is the most watched sporting event in the entire world! We should ditch the main page and instead have an up to the minute update of scores, complete with javascript tickers and so forth. All this encyclopedia nonsense is fine and all, but lets try to keep perspective on what's really important! Did I mention that the world cup is the most watched event in the entire world, right on par with American Idol and other matters of worldwide importance! I say screw whatever policies we have to concentrate on the stuff that matters.
Why so confusing! =[
So I decided I would sign up here and help add some stuff to wiki but there is so much stuff, so many links, I'm having a very hard time finding my way around. I have great knowledge of a subject that is not covered very much on wiki. I was hoping to find a wiki forum but couldn't.
If anyone can help me get started, shoot me an email to b34nzzzgmail.com
I am going to keep looking around and playing with stuff to see if I get the hang of things. Thanks! -Barry —The preceding unsigned comment was added by B34nz (talk • contribs) .
- Try Getting started, or Help desk for questions. It's really not that hard once you get started. Good luck! 131.111.1.66 Ade1982 14:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Blocked image
FYI, my version of Symantec firewall is ad blocking the thumbnail associated with the current featured article. I checked and it is not in a /ad/ directory, so I have no idea why it is doing so, though I have occasionally noticed it blocking random seeming things before. Dragons flight 08:19, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- Is it possible to check the full list of keywords that Symantec blocks? One possibility is that it is finding the string "ad" in "upload.wikimedia.org" along with some other string in the filename, and is blocking because of that. Image:Flag of the Czech Republic.svg
suffers from this with some adblockers, because of the strings "ad" and "public" in the filename. — sjorford++ 12:40, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- Well I can see the flag. It is also only the case that it is blocking the thumbnail and not the full sized image with the featured article pic, so it must be something about how thumbs are stored. I've looked at the ruleset before (which is quite long and complicated) without being able to discern what it is triggering against. Dragons flight 13:54, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Kenneth Lay
Kenneth Lay, the founder of Enron, died today. Is this front page worthy? Sertman 15:05, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- It doesn't appear to fall under the relevant guidelines. Deaths in 2006 has already been updated. - BT 15:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- Nope, though it should be added to Recent Deaths, if it hasn't been already. GeeJo ⁄(c) • 15:20, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- Exactly. On the other hand, if you want to put the scores for every World Cup elimination game on the front page, that's perfectly acceptable. Sports are very, very important. MrVoluntarist 15:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- I believe Lay's death does conform to the criteria for relevant guidelines: he was a "key figure" in his area of expertise and his death was unexpected. J. Van Meter 15:42, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
It's the fact that his indictment and conviction are now nonexistent (legally clearing his record of any wrongdoing) that makes this front page worthy. We had an entry on the front page when he was convicted; why wouldn't we have one when his conviction is voided? — BRIAN0918 • 2006-07-05 21:20
- Is that TRUE? Does the fact that a convicted criminal dies before receiving his actual sentencing actually overturn the work of the jury, judge, legal process? Terraflora 21:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- Following one footnote, I do find that it doesn't have to do with sentencing, as infered, but the appeal ("when a defendant dies before appellate review of the conviction..."). Still suspicious. Terraflora 21:32, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- Did you read the linked references? If someone dies before appealing, the whole indictment/conviction/etc is "extinguished", as if he was never indicted or convicted. Or, do you doubt the opinion of a law professor? — BRIAN0918 • 2006-07-05 22:34
- Brian - I apologize for not thoroughly reading the linked reference first. I was stunned. But after leaving my query here I proceded to read, read, read. Sorry for the inappropriate, jump-the-gun (deer in the headlamps) disbelief. It won't happen again. Until next time. Terraflora 22:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- Did you read the linked references? If someone dies before appealing, the whole indictment/conviction/etc is "extinguished", as if he was never indicted or convicted. Or, do you doubt the opinion of a law professor? — BRIAN0918 • 2006-07-05 22:34
- Following one footnote, I do find that it doesn't have to do with sentencing, as infered, but the appeal ("when a defendant dies before appellate review of the conviction..."). Still suspicious. Terraflora 21:32, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
We've also had several deaths in the news section that weren't about national leaders, or even political leaders. — BRIAN0918 • 2006-07-05 21:21
Can we get a cite in the article on the voiding of his conviction? The main page mentions it, but the article doesn't seem to currently. — ceejayoz 22:54, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- The voiding of Lay's conviction is disputed. See WP:ERRORS. -- 199.71.174.100 22:56, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Ken Lay's conviction "voided"?
How can Ken Lay's conviction be "voided"? Is that a legal truism, or is the paragraph simply trying to convey the idea that the conviction is now moot? AFAIK convictions are not "voided" when the subject dies - it's just that there is obviously no sentence and no punishment. "Voided" implies that death somehow expurges one's criminal record, which I don't think is the case. Not that that matters to the perpetrator, of course, but it might to his descendants in some cases.
- The voiding of Lay's conviction is disputed. See WP:ERRORS. -- 199.71.174.100 22:56, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- See this explanation here. "Under the Fifth Circuit's law of abatement of a criminal conviction when a defendant dies before appellate review of the conviction, 'It is well established in this circuit that the death of a criminal defendant pending an appeal of his or her case abates, ab initio, the entire criminal proceeding.' ... the law no longer recognizes there having been any criminal case initiated against him." That's all we suggest in the news section, so it's correct. — BRIAN0918 • 2006-07-06 00:06
- Ah. Interesting. And yet the civil case against Lay's estate can continue as if nothing had happened, or so I understand. --klaus 00:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
This is not the first time a celebrity's conviction has been voided in this manner. See Budd Dywer Raul654 01:36, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Cystic Fibrosis (CF)
I'm glad this article made FA status.whicky1978 06:52, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- User:InvictaHOG would probably be the one to thank, as he wrote most of the article. Raul654 06:54, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- Can someone take the horrible word Caucasian off the front page summary? It's already off the main article. jnestorius 11:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- Why is the word horrible? The article was changed (without discussion) from Caucasian to European. Does this mean people in other parts of the world don't suffer from it as much as the population in Europe? Bazza 13:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- I would have thought that word was fine, although quick look at the Caucasian article (I admit I didn't read the whole article) indicates that the word is used to mean different things in different places. Apparently some people are also offended by it. If nothing else, the fact that it doesn't mean the same thing to everyone might make it vague and therefore less useful. On the other hand, "European" doesn't encompass the entire group it's trying to describe. Is there some other more accurate and precise term in use? -- Laura S | talk to me 23:49, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- What about Europid? 86.129.123.42 20:50, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
US Dollar first?
The article on non-decimal currencies lists the rubel (=100 kopecks) in 1701 as the first decimal currency. -- Frenchwhale
- Good catch ! Thanks for pointing this out. The Russian ruble indeed beats the United States dollar by quite a few decades. I've just removed that from MainPage. -- PFHLai 15:33, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
article attacking wikipedia
just spotted this by accident, http://www.israelnewsagency.com/wikipedianewsisraelcensorship48480706.html
- Last one out switch off the lights, then. --Bazza 19:34, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- That was a boring read. So the Seigenthaler article was wrong, and it took us a whole 3 minutes to get Ken Lay's death right. How horrible. Preston 19:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- Addendum: Having looked around the news site, is this Israel News Agency even a real news site? Preston 20:08, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- See Talk:Israel News Agency and Talk:Joel Leyden for the details of this guy's legal threats against Misplaced Pages and personal attacks on other users after they edited "his" articles, leading to him being hard banned. - BT 21:39, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
The best thing about the Key Lay Reuters article is that the headline now starts with "CORRECTED:"... irony, much? — ceejayoz 21:21, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- maybe all wikipedia articles should be prefixed with "CORRECTED" after the first edit!
- Yup, I found it here too. —EdGl 21:30, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- "Misplaced Pages, which is now being blocked for use by many universities and colleges for its lack of accountability, through its lack of accountable user and administrator posts could actually be aiding terrorists to communicate with one another on the Internet through their anonymous edits."
The word terrorism is just like "heresy", it fixes everything! Try it the next time you are angry with someone or trying to force the members of another political party to do what yours want.Cloviz 00:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- Why Misplaced Pages specifically? How are anonymous edits (IPs) anonymous? Is Misplaced Pages TOO easy to edit, so that even your dumbest terrorists, who can't figure out email or usenet or any of those other complicated communication services, will all flock to this site? Maybe we need to add to MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning a notice saying, "You verify that you are not a terrorist." — BRIAN0918 • 2006-07-07 03:59
- WTF? You mean terrorists aren't communicating by encrypted e-mail at all? They're actually embedding secret messages in Misplaced Pages articles? Genius! Why didn't we think of it before, it's so obvious in retrospect! </sarcasm>
- Honestly, that's the most pathetic anti-Misplaced Pages "article" I've read yet. If you hate Misplaced Pages, fine. If you can make a good case for it, even better. But this isn't politics – you can't just throw the word "terrorism" around and expect it to make your argument work – Gurch 13:56, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
The people who write articles like that are idiots.--BoyoJonesJr 14:34, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- Then maybe we shouldn't pay so much attention to said idiots? (Incidentally, if you're reading this Iqbal, I have obtained the detonators. If we're on for tonight, change the spelling of the 'aluminium' article. If our cover is blown, add three {{fact}} tags to Inuit. Jimbo akbar!) --Sam Blanning 15:05, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- Priceless!--BoyoJonesJr 16:50, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Helophilus pendulus, 6th july main page, misspelling
Regarding the article about the "Helophilus pendulus" there is an incorrect meaning explanation on the main page.It is wrongly written "dangling sun-lover" and not "dangling swamp-lover", which is the correct meaning of the scientific name of the "Helophilus pendulus". The mistake is in the translation of the ancient greek word "Ηλος / Helos",which means swamp, and not "Ηλιος / Hlios", which means sun.
--Kpapak 20:23, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Woolworth Building
Why does todays featured picture on the Woolworth Building (built 1913) make an unsubstantiated claim that it is the world's first skyscraper? There is absolutly no mention of it in its wiki article, not to mention that per resrources and information available compliled by historians, the Home Insurance Building in Chicago (built 1885) is the world's first skyscraper. This erroneous oversight must be corrected immediatly.
- If that is so, then its not notable enough for the mainpage IMHO. See: WP:ERRORS The Selected Anniversary's always have a US-bend to them. --Midnighttonight please tell me off for procrastinating on my essay! 04:25, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- sorry, didn't realise it was featured pic. Still, see WP:ERROR though. my bad. But, again, Featured Pic is also US dominated, as well as most of Misplaced Pages. --Midnighttonight please tell me off for procrastinating on my essay! 05:42, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- I thought the qualification for featured pic was that the pic had to be exempliary, not the subject. --Bazza 08:14, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- sorry, didn't realise it was featured pic. Still, see WP:ERROR though. my bad. But, again, Featured Pic is also US dominated, as well as most of Misplaced Pages. --Midnighttonight please tell me off for procrastinating on my essay! 05:42, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Ronaldinho
Named FIFA 2006 world player of the year.
- Whipdy-doo. Unless its the finals or semi finals of a world-level sporting event, sports are irrelevant to the main page. -- Zanimum
- Well, to ITN anyway. I doubt many would object to a sports-related entry on any of the other four items. GeeJo ⁄(c) • 19:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Ronaldinho was named world player of the year 2005 in December. Nobody has been named World player of the year 2006 yet. And if you mean player of the tournament at the World Cup he isn't on the list of candidates so he's not gonna win that. So whats the point of this message? Also if he wins Wold player of the Year ahead of Henry this year it will be a crime. Jimmmmmmmmm 00:47 8 July 2006
The Coke scandal
I thought that would be a good part to put in the news. Since the investigation involved the FBI, I thought it would on there. Mr. C.C. 05:30, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- It is in the news -- at Wikinews ;) Tntnnbltn 11:25, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- It's not big enough news on WP to warrant a mention. -- Zanimum
- Big news items go to Current events. Only big news items with good, updated wikiarticles go on ITN. --PFHLai 00:13, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Protection Template
Greetings. I am from the StarWars Fanon wiki (Wookieepedia Fanon). Due to extreme amounts of vandalism being done to our wiki, we have resorted to one last cry for help. Could you allow us to use the no-editing code you use on your Main Page? This would end the damage being done to our wiki. Thank you. 154.5.130.212 01:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- There is no template. If you're an admin on the wiki, there will be a protect tab at the top of the page. enochlau (talk) 02:20, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
American-centricity
The Main Page is quite biased towards the US of A. Take today's On This Day, five items, three are American. So far this month, four featured pics have been American topics (or mentioned America in them) and for the rest of the month, there are more to come. There are five featured articles about the US for this month (up to the 19th from where on they have not been selected). This is off-putting to non-US people, especially given the current anti-US feeling that exists throughout the world at the moment. I know that there is a limited pool of things to select from, and it would be unfair to blame the selectors, but it is off-putting. Maybe a realisation by US-Wikipedians that they might consider branching out and build the knowledge on other countries for a while (some do of course). --Midnighttonight please tell me off for procrastinating on my essay! 01:34, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- I find this comment quite insulting. So because there is anti-U.S. sentiment (is this against the U.S. government, or against all residents of the United States?), you want American contributors to stop taking pictures in their country? Because some people stereotype residents of a country into a group, those residents should stop writing about their own country? And what exactly are people put off of? Of reading Misplaced Pages? Saying you don't like me and then asking me to work on articles about you instead is hardly a convincing argument. — Knowledge Seeker দ 02:09, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- I am also offended by your comments, as I do not see any reason to doubt the veracity or significance of any of the pictures or articles linked from the main page. If you would like to change the page, the burden of creating articles and pictures is squarely upon your shoulders. Isopropyl 02:14, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- Solution: Help counteract the bias you see by contributing as much as those who you think are adding to the bias, and get others to help you. Or, you could just continue to complain every 10 seconds on Talk:Main Page, and get nothing done; that's the easier route. — BRIAN0918 • 2006-07-08 02:15
- (edit conflict)Well, I find that an international collaboration resulting in one country dominating being insulting, that's not international, its hegemonic. Anti-US sentiment is anti-government, but the residents do democratically elect the government, so both are really included - and it is off putting. It makes people question whether Misplaced Pages is going to be at all helpful for them if they have a non-US topic. It makes them think that it is full of Americans, and thus probably writing from an American-POV, and anything they write will be challenged as being POV-pushing. If Misplaced Pages is to ever successfully challenge paper encyclopedias, then it is going to have to be comprehensive about all countries, and come from an objective POV, that is clearly NPOV.
- "Help counteract the bias you see by contributing as much as those who you think are adding to the bias, and get others to help you" - hmmm maybe by doing things like this to raise peoples awareness of systematic bias, and pointing it out where it exists--Midnighttonight please tell me off for procrastinating on my essay! 02:20, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- Not to be off-putting, but read your first sentence again. "Well, I find that an international collaboration resulting in one country dominating being insulting, that's not international, its hegemonic." What? Good luck with that essay.
- (for Midnighttonight) What? How is that insulting? There is no claim that Misplaced Pages is or should be international according to the criteria you specify. It is a freely editable encyclopedia, with people at liberty to write about what they wish. Getting mad at prolific contributors because they're not writing about your favorite topics is ridiculous. Also, your criticism of featured pictures ignores that many of them, such as today's, come from the United States government. Since works of the U.S. government are automatically placed in the public domain, and since the U.S. (including NASA) releases many high-quality images, naturally there will be an abundance of them represented at Misplaced Pages. Rather than insult editors who aren't working on the topics you want them to work on, try persuading other governments (and the ESA) to release their work as freely as the U.S. does. Consider working with a project like Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Countering systemic bias. And if you try to recruit others to help you in the future, consider a more diplomatic and respectful tone. I'm surprised you thought you would convince anyone to work on unfamiliar topics in this manner: after insulting me you want me to help you? I, for one, don't find this sort of rudeness persuasive in the slightest. — Knowledge Seeker দ 02:36, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- If it really does bother you that much, try one of the foreign-language Misplaced Pages projects. The German Misplaced Pages is of comparable size and quality, and shouldn't have so much of an EVIL US BIAS. Of course, then you have to deal with a German bias instead. GeeJo ⁄(c) • 06:15, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Simple answer: America is 4x better than the rest of the world combined. lots of issues | leave me a message 05:12, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- Well said. That should end the discussion. Piet 10:14, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- I bet you all wouldn't stop commenting here if it was another country, even English speaking ones. Take this three for instance, they came in a row: "1935 - The National Labor Relations Act, which governs labor relations in the United States, was signed into law by President Franklin D. Roosevelt. 1937 - Hormel Foods Corporation introduced the canned meat product Spam. 1954 - Elvis Presley makes his first recordings with the song That's All Right." Don't you think something more important must have happened that day somewhere? It's not like this every day I must say. No, it's not insulting either, just not right.--Cloviz 14:50, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- The NLRA completely changed the way that American law is looked at and thus changed the relationships between the federal government and states. Check out The switch in time that saved nine, National Labor Relations Board v. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation, and Freedom of contract. NLRA was really the precursor, in many ways, to desegregation. --Descendall 16:12, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- Also note that spam (food) is an internationally-sold product, and I've heard that one or two people outside the US have heard of Elvis. (Maybe they've seen him, too.) --Dhartung | Talk 16:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- I bet you all wouldn't stop commenting here if it was another country, even English speaking ones. Take this three for instance, they came in a row: "1935 - The National Labor Relations Act, which governs labor relations in the United States, was signed into law by President Franklin D. Roosevelt. 1937 - Hormel Foods Corporation introduced the canned meat product Spam. 1954 - Elvis Presley makes his first recordings with the song That's All Right." Don't you think something more important must have happened that day somewhere? It's not like this every day I must say. No, it's not insulting either, just not right.--Cloviz 14:50, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- This is all a variation of Misplaced Pages:Please do not bite the newcomers. This isn't "an international encyclopedia" at all -- it's the English-language version of "the encyclopedia that anyone can edit". Keep the actual mission in mind. If we got 100 editors from Darkest Rusatania tomorrow, because of a newspaper article, should you start complaining if they all made featured articles about Rusatania? Ashlee Simpson got FA, should we tell the contributors to go away becuase they have bad taste in music? Misplaced Pages is, statistically, dominated by white male American geeks (with bad taste in music, heh). Possibly still the majority are American. It's pretty unfair to berate people for contributing what they do; far better to encourage them to write about things that are needed. I don't find given the fact that it's in English that 5 of 19 articles are American-"related" (whatever that means) to be excessive. If anything, I'm surprised it isn't higher (maybe it used to be, I dunno). Brian0918 has previously noted that DYK is dominated by Polish-Russian topics (often one a day), because of the hard work of contributors in those areas, who have decided to nominate their articles frequently. I would much rather get more people contributing to DYK than tell them to go away. --Dhartung | Talk 15:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Today is both my birthday and my first year anniversary of having a registered account. I take this moment to say: if you think there's a bias based on a lack of information on other topics... then help remedy the problem by writing the articles to help restore the balance. This current problem only appears to imply that there are more active American contributors, and that means two things: (1) Americans are trying to help by writing about what they know, and (2) the inadvertant result is a wide range of quality "American-centric" articles. There's not motive beyond how the aggregate result reflects the macro-level number of who's contributing. In a long winded way, this is saying: the rest of the world needs to step up and keep up. It's not a put down, it's a challenge. Whining and sniveling doesn't get anything done in this situation (or any situation, really --unless you have nice parents). --Bobak 19:30, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- Editors should however look around a bit for important topics outside their immediate area which might need a lot of work. Way too much time is spent on hardly notable topics, while some essential articles remain in a terrible state. The world is bigger than the television screen. I feel editors have a certain responsibility to help build the encyclopedia and not just write something about whatever interests them. Piet 19:45, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- Okay... then be proactive. I have. Don't expect others to help you. It sounds like the people who complain about poor people being poor. With how Misplaced Pages is structured (de-centralized), there's no realistic way to fix the situation other than contributing to correcting the balance. --Bobak 20:12, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- The whole point of this place is that I do expect others to help. I did not come here to write an encyclopedia, or even one article, by myself. Joint effort is the only path to a good end result. The fact that currently the majority of the efforts seems to be utterly pointless strikes me as a problem.
- Btw I have not complained about American-centrism, I don't see it as a problem in the English wikipedia. But I object when someone says it's because people only write about what's close to them, and so we should just accept that. The least we can do is admit it's a problem.
- And I don't see the analogy with complaining about poor people being poor. Piet 20:40, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- Okay... then be proactive. I have. Don't expect others to help you. It sounds like the people who complain about poor people being poor. With how Misplaced Pages is structured (de-centralized), there's no realistic way to fix the situation other than contributing to correcting the balance. --Bobak 20:12, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- Well, it's hard to avoid those US-related articles. It's part of the systemic bias that people naturally contribute what they are familiar with, and the many Americans in English Misplaced Pages have been doing a good job with what they know best. Lucky Americans. Paper has become cheap when their country was born, and their whole history has been recorded in details. This has translated into good wikipages about their history. Good wikiarticles will get featured, while dinky stubs won't. Actually, getting just one every day is an improvement. It was much worse in 2004. (Example})
- To make things worse, many historic events were not properly dated, or at least the date cannot be found in the relevant wikiarticles, making them ineligible for Selected Anniversaries. There is also a problem with events that took place outside "Western/Christian Europe". The Gregorian date is too hard to confirm for events in Persia, India, China or Japan, for instance. For events in "Eastern Europe" where the Julian calendar was used for a longer time, it's hard to figure out if the date in the wikiarticle is Julian or Gregorian. Events with iffy dates can't be featured. (Many pages have been fixed now, but most still need checking.)
- Hence, we're often stuck with US events. To "get rid of" US events, please help write up more wikiarticles about historic events in other countries. See WP:CSB. Thanks.
- (Originally posted at Misplaced Pages talk:Selected anniversaries#USA bias in Selected Anniverary, 00:16, 21 April 2006 (UTC).)
- -- PFHLai 20:09, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Currently only 3 out of 18 items on the main page are American. Chicheley 13:44, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Please, the proper framing for that statement is: the vast majority of the main page is unAmerican. :) — BRIAN0918 • 2006-07-09 16:02
With:
- The Internet having largely been invented in America
- The WikiMedia Foundation and its servers being based in Florida
- The servers being based on Intel CPU's (any many other vital components having been invesnted in the USA, including TV, satellites and transistors to name a very few)
- Those networks running an network equipment designed in the USA
- The remaining founder, Jimmy Wales begin a U.S. citizen, having been born and educated here and having made the millions of dollars that he now posesses been earned at a Chicago-based company
- Jimmy's Objectivist philosophy being based on virtually all American citizens, including Ayn Rand, who was a naturalize citizen
- A large fraction of the entertainment content that Misplaced Pages has being created in Hollywood or by American authors
...I would expect that some bias is a natural outcome. Assuming that Angela, Eloquence, yourself Mr. Midnighttonight or whomever you really are and other prominent, productive and constructive non-American Misplaced Pages contributors are so motivated, perhaps they and you can help to eliminate or at least reduce this bias. If you indeed find this bias to be so onerous, I suggest that you get to work and out-create the USA with new an innovative ideas as best you can. Even if you fail to eliminate this bias entirely, such an effort is likely to improve your position and the prominance of whatever culture your wish to see more of here. -- 75.24.104.22 01:49, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- Please keep in mind that the US is primarily a European country (same as Australia, South America), so this conversation is quite irrelevant (assuming this is Joe USA vs. Jack Britain). I find it more disturbing that there is a lack of articles around more demanding subjects such as conflicts in countries which were subjected to the white christian crusades around the world (e.g the majority of African countries and the asian sub continents). Kakugo 13:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
stone "was laid" at a particular minute?
- Moved to Misplaced Pages talk:Selected anniversaries/July 9. --14:09, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Distasteful choice of featured article
I know Americans are probably too stupid to understand this but anyway, Germany just won third place in the World Cup and they are finally able to shead a bit of shame about the past and let loose and party a bit. They don't need have mud thrown in their faces this weekend. The concentration camp article as a featured article is in extremely bad taste. Couldn't this have waited a week? I am from Denmark, by the way. Andersa 05:48, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- I was going to type a long line of "hahaha" but decided to just go with a nice short emoticon: XD — BRIAN0918 • 2006-07-09 05:56
- Unfortunately, it is just a mere coincidence since the daily featured article for each day is always selected weeks in advance. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 05:59, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- The current mood in Germany could have been known a week ago, and this could have been postponed. Andersa 06:02, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, it is just a mere coincidence since the daily featured article for each day is always selected weeks in advance. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 05:59, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- We're human. Including Raul. --Dhartung | Talk 06:07, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Humans should be able to read news.. Of course if all you have is Fox News, I know it's not easy. The new mood in germany has been on the news in europe for at least a couple of weeks. Andersa 06:18, 9 July 2006 (UTC) -- Well more than a week anyway.. Andersa 06:21, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Just keep in mind that 99.9% of Wikipedians are unpaid volunteers. And there is no need to throw in insults when you have received only civil replies. --Dhartung | Talk 06:39, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Humans should be able to read news.. Of course if all you have is Fox News, I know it's not easy. The new mood in germany has been on the news in europe for at least a couple of weeks. Andersa 06:18, 9 July 2006 (UTC) -- Well more than a week anyway.. Andersa 06:21, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- We're human. Including Raul. --Dhartung | Talk 06:07, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Germany played a soccer game, and theres a featured article on Misplaced Pages about concentration camps. I don't follow the problem, here.Preston 07:04, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- The idea that we should follow sports when scheduling featured articles is preposterous. The idea that we should spare the feelings of Germans over the Holocaust is ... disproportionate. Besides, didn't Germany "shed a bit of shame" when they were World Cup Champions in 1954, 1974, and 1990? I don't know whether to laugh or cry, really. --Dhartung | Talk 08:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- No they didn't. You don't understand at all. Anyway I can see I am outmanned in this argument, so you can have it your way. andersa 08:55, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Take it easy, Andersa. The bit about Americans was very unnecessary. It may be bad timing but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have thought about it either. And if Germany has shed their shame, I hope it's not because they have forgotten. Present day Germans carry no more responsibility than present day Australians but it's not something to put in a closet and never think of again. Piet 09:19, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- I'm neither American, nor stupid, but until you actually raised this point I had not even considered any connection between the fetaured article and the recent football world cup in Germany. --Bazza 09:27, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Take it easy, Andersa. The bit about Americans was very unnecessary. It may be bad timing but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have thought about it either. And if Germany has shed their shame, I hope it's not because they have forgotten. Present day Germans carry no more responsibility than present day Australians but it's not something to put in a closet and never think of again. Piet 09:19, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- No they didn't. You don't understand at all. Anyway I can see I am outmanned in this argument, so you can have it your way. andersa 08:55, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- The idea that we should follow sports when scheduling featured articles is preposterous. The idea that we should spare the feelings of Germans over the Holocaust is ... disproportionate. Besides, didn't Germany "shed a bit of shame" when they were World Cup Champions in 1954, 1974, and 1990? I don't know whether to laugh or cry, really. --Dhartung | Talk 08:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
the topic being distasteful is not so much connected with the German soccer game, but with the insensitive tone of the summary here on the Main Page. While this will do for the intro for the article itself, where people expect to read technical details about a concentration camp, the summary here will need at least a short sentence putting it all into context, referring to the Holocaust, WWII etc. before descending into technical details. The death toll could also be mentioned ahead of geography and organizational structure (really...). The snide comments regarding Germany and the World Cup are not helpful either. This is not about some sports event, the phenomenon goes far beyond that, the World Cup has just proven a trigger for an unpredictable collective change of mood. The commentators are unanimous in judging that nothing like this has happened in Germany since the unification 1989/90. This shouldn't keep Misplaced Pages from discussing (and featuring) Holocaust related topics, of course, but it explains why the coincidence can be perceived as jarring. Which Andersa was trying to convey (taking a potshot at the Americans was diplomatially unsound of course, and may explain the tone of the replies he got). dab (ᛏ) 09:45, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- I agree 100% with this comment. Andersa 10:40, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- You're right. It is, not only a coincidence, but an unfortunent one. I personally would change it to an article on Richard Wagner or to Otto von Bismark, but I'm only an American, and don't know how. Until I learn how to use this "computer" to rid the American-led conspiracy to make this "wikipedia" as American-centric and, appearantly, anti-German, as possible, the Germans will have to deal with the lack of Orwellian denial of history on Misplaced Pages after their loss in the World Cup.Preston 17:25, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree that it is poor timing. Chicheley 13:40, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Lighten up. The featured article is just a coincidence. Everything that happens on here is not some sort of American conspiracy to undermine other countries. Also, if the featured article was selected based on the "mood" of a country, thats ridiculous--BoyoJonesJr 16:37, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- 86.140.170.23 17:27, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Please don't be a troll, User:86.140.170.23. And on another note, I, for one, completely agree with BoyoJonesJr's comment. Picaroon9288 17:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- The notion that the selection of featured articles which involve a particular country's history should be timed so that they don't interfere with that country's current mood is as silly as the notion that Germany is only now able to "shead a bit of shame about the past" because it won some
soccerfootball games. --mtz206 (talk) 17:54, 9 July 2006 (UTC)- I guess if you are not from Germany and don't know any Germans, it is difficult to know how big a deal the collective shame about WWII is. And it's not like I am saying there should be censorship on articles or anything like that. Sometimes it would just be nice, if people took a little bit more care not to stomp on other peoples toes. Here is an idea. We could make an article that explains the situation, and if it is good enough, maybe it could come on the front page some day. Andersa 18:27, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- I am ethnically German, and I say tough noogies. History's a bitch. We should not be playing Don't mention the war. We're an encyclopedia, not an encounter group. --Dhartung | Talk 19:09, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- I am a Turk living in Germany. it seems that many people are really unaware of whats going on in Germany. Germans are now getting normal. They are begining to feel ok when they are running around and shouting with their flags. Total German flags sold this year has made a peak and reached the highest level since WW2. I totaly agree with Andersa.neurobio 00:02, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- I can understand that perhaps only now are Germans "getting normal." The point here, however, is whether the selection of a featured article must be dependent on the feelings of all the possible populations that have any relationship to the content of said article. For example, today's featured article is Michigan State Capitol: are we now offending those citizens of Michigan who aren't particularly proud of their capitol building? Or perhaps the citizens of Indiana for not selecting their capitol? --mtz206 (talk) 00:43, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- I am a Turk living in Germany. it seems that many people are really unaware of whats going on in Germany. Germans are now getting normal. They are begining to feel ok when they are running around and shouting with their flags. Total German flags sold this year has made a peak and reached the highest level since WW2. I totaly agree with Andersa.neurobio 00:02, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- I am ethnically German, and I say tough noogies. History's a bitch. We should not be playing Don't mention the war. We're an encyclopedia, not an encounter group. --Dhartung | Talk 19:09, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- I guess if you are not from Germany and don't know any Germans, it is difficult to know how big a deal the collective shame about WWII is. And it's not like I am saying there should be censorship on articles or anything like that. Sometimes it would just be nice, if people took a little bit more care not to stomp on other peoples toes. Here is an idea. We could make an article that explains the situation, and if it is good enough, maybe it could come on the front page some day. Andersa 18:27, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- The notion that the selection of featured articles which involve a particular country's history should be timed so that they don't interfere with that country's current mood is as silly as the notion that Germany is only now able to "shead a bit of shame about the past" because it won some
- Please don't be a troll, User:86.140.170.23. And on another note, I, for one, completely agree with BoyoJonesJr's comment. Picaroon9288 17:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- 86.140.170.23 17:27, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- "getting normal" term is used by a German politician by the way. I got it from there.neurobio 01:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- Unfortunate conincidence but what's to be done? As outlined above, just because an article is offensive (to some) does not mean it should be excluded from the main page; I very much doubt if there was any intent to offend anybody with this particular item. Anyway, few Germans are going to give a stuff what's written on Misplaced Pages this weekend anyway ;-). Original post was so uncivil as to be difficult to accept seriously, btw. Calling a group of users 'stupid' is insulting, counter-productive and generally not the way to do things. Just my tuppence. Badgerpatrol 02:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- "getting normal" term is used by a German politician by the way. I got it from there.neurobio 01:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I was born in Princeton, and I want to thank you for making the History of New Jersey the FA during the 2006 New Jersey State Government Shutdown. Clearly, your desire to make Germans feel bad during the World Cup is calculated to raise the spirits of people from New Jersey. Hopefully we can soon move into Phase II of the Anti-German/Pro-New Jersey plot. --Descendall 03:43, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- Absolutely. In fact, the people behind the Anti-German/Pro-New Jersey Plot (or AGPNJP for short) requested the article way back in February, clearly indicating they had advanced knowledge of the shutdown. Raul654 03:51, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- Wow, Descendall. It takes great skill to write a completely sarcastic comment in a completely serious tone. Well done! joturner 04:08, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- We should have put 2006 New Jersey State Government Shutdown on ITN at the same time ..... (just kidding) -- PFHLai 14:04, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
On this day - River Plate?
River Plate as a term for Rio de la Plata is becoming less and less common; mostly because it makes no sense. Rio de la Plata means River of Silver (which too makes no sense, because it is not a river); not River Plate (that would be Rio del plato). Anglophones used River Plate as a false cognate. In academic writing saying River Plate is considered archaic, and should be seen as evidence of ignorance about the region. While Silver River sounds arcane, it's more correct. Stick to the Spanish Rio de la Plata, and no one gets in trouble, and everyone understands.
- But in English, the common name is River Plate and this is the English-language Misplaced Pages. There are lots of names around the world which have been mistranslated from one language to another (or whose names have evolved in their original language to a different form), and have ended up with a different meaning as a result, but it does not mean they are wrong. I don't understand how the name of a body of water cannot make sense — it's a name, it doesn't have to make sense. --Bazza 15:10, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- There are plenty of examples of non-English phrases that we use in English (eg, Rio de Janiero). If "Rio de la Plata" is correct according to modern academic writers, and "River Plate" is archaic, we should stick to the more correct term, as we do for numerous Arabic subjects, for example. — BRIAN0918 • 2006-07-09 15:58
- To name a BAY a River, defies the purpose of naming. This was common during the Age of Discovery, as Iberian explorers mainly stuck to the coasts of South America. The best examples are Rio de Janiero and Rio de la Plata, which are both called "Rivers" though they are bays. Regardless (as this is irrelevant to the English name), the term River Plate is not used in modern desciptions.
- Actually, the usage should be Río de la Plata, as River Plate has an entirely different meaning in Latin America (namely, the soccer club). If someone said River Plate when referring to the river, that person would be given funny looks and then chastised. Titoxd 18:33, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- The naming convention guideline on Misplaced Pages is most common usage in English. If River Plate is still the most common usage in English, then it is what we should use. We shouldn't hypercorrect. --Dhartung | Talk 19:02, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- But it isn't still the most common usage. — BRIAN0918 • 2006-07-09 19:09
- It's so common I hadn't heard of it, ever. Titoxd 19:12, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- The naming convention guideline on Misplaced Pages is most common usage in English. If River Plate is still the most common usage in English, then it is what we should use. We shouldn't hypercorrect. --Dhartung | Talk 19:02, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Not this one again! This underwent months of discussion on the article talk page. violet/riga (t) 19:44, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Volunteer please -- to move Battle Of The River Plate to Battle of Rio de la Plata. Nah, just jivin. ~ Moriori
- You mean Battle of the River Plate? Watch those capitals! :-) Carcharoth 14:34, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
As for the Rio de la Plata thingy, I'd say that whenever you mention it, call it an estuary. ie. Say "the River Plate estuary" or "the Rio de la Plata estuary". Though as it is an estuary of the Uruguay River and the Parana River, not a non-existant River Plate, that might be even more confusing! But then I went to look at Rio de Janeiro (not having ever thought of this as an estuary), and the mystery deepens. I quote from Rio de Janeiro:
- "Guanabara Bay, future site of the city, was reached by Portuguese explorers in an expedition led by Portuguese explorer Gaspar de Lemos on January 20, 1502; hence Rio de Janeiro, "River of January". There is a legend that the mariners named the place thus because they thought the mouth of the bay was actually the mouth of a river, but no experienced sailor would make that mistake. At the time, river was the general word for any large body of water."
- In particular: At the time, river was the general word for any large body of water. So it seems that there is something more going on here, and that Misplaced Pages is currently confused about this (saying different things on different pages). Can someone clear up the confusion? Carcharoth 14:34, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Links
{{The summary is: restore interwiki links (please), why did they get removed?}}
- Huh? They are in there. Just scroll down to the bottom. Titoxd 18:15, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
World Cup Final
Guys, it's the world cup final in a couple of hours; the most significant sporting event in the world. Doesn't it rate a mention on ITN?! --Guinnog 16:09, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Please list your proposed entry at Misplaced Pages:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates. Be sure to include a link to the substantially updated article in bold. —David Levy 16:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Martinets. It's an insult to the thousands of people who have worked hard on the 2006 FIFA World Cup and the
dozenshundreds (Category:2006 FIFA World Cup) of accompanying pages over the last months. Jooler 16:15, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Martinets. It's an insult to the thousands of people who have worked hard on the 2006 FIFA World Cup and the
- I merely informed Guinnog of how to propose his desired entry. How is that "an insult"? —David Levy 16:23, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Um... it hasn't happened yet. We're all sitting around at 3am down here waiting for it to start. How can there be an entry in ITN for something that hasn't even occured. This is an Encyclopedia not a crystal ball. (Oh and Viva Italia! ;) --Monotonehell 17:40, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Add the d--n results already. Italy beat France 1-1, 5-3 in the penalty knockout.
75.28.64.235 20:47, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Score was 1-1 with 5-3 in penalties, NOT 5-4 Dav2008 20:56, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- just so you know, the picture and the cup Italy won is NOT the Jules Rimet Cup, but the FIFA WOrld Cup introdued after Brazil had won the Coupe JUles Rimet for the thired time --84.57.87.252 22:03, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- This error on ITN has been fixed. The error on the FIFA World Cup Trophy page which led to this error on ITN is also fixed. Thank you, Joturner. -- PFHLai 22:32, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Semiprotection
Why is the featured article semiprotected? I thought featured articles were never to be protected? This gives a horrible impression to newcomers!131.194.196.34 18:12, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, the horrible impression that we are an encyclopedia first, a community second. *gasp* — BRIAN0918 • 2006-07-09 19:11
- They're generally not fully protected (without exceptional circumstances, anyway) but semi-protection isn't that uncommon with a bout of persistent vandalism. GeeJo ⁄(c) • 20:03, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
It's not the Jules Rimet Trophy
that was given to brazil. ive just changed.
actually i cant can i? but its wrong italy have not just won the Jules Rimet.someone correct
- It has been corrected. joturner 22:21, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
wow that was fast Chinksimon 22:34, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
"In the news" naming issue once again
The matter of investigating the potential of a section rename for ITN has come up on a few places, including this talk page. I've started a centralised straw poll here, and would greatly appreciate commentary, feedback, suggestions, or particularly creative insults. The Tom 00:31, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Penalty kicks/Panalty shootout
It says on the ITN section that Italy beat France on penalty kicks, which is technically wrong. If you look at Penalty shootout (football) and Penalty kick, you can see that they are two different aspects of the game. Could someone change it round please? Thanks ;) The Halo (talk) 09:51, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- Corrected. -- Zanimum 13:08, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you!! The Halo (talk) 16:57, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Wikibooks is 3 years old today!!
Today, July 10th, is Wikibooks' third birthday. We have a notice up on our b:Main Page. It would be great if someone could also put up an announcement here. (Though I'd like to be bold, I don't know the etiquette for updating the main page and want to tread lightly) Kellen 14:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
How old is the Guttenberg Project? And how different is it?
- Wikibooks cooperatively produces new manuals and textbooks. Project Gutenberg publishes existing works whose copyright is expired. You can go look at our b:Main Page to find out more. Kellen
- See also the wikipedia article on Project Gutenberg. --PFHLai 22:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you. Unfortunately I can't read more than 5 lines in one sitting.
- Try adding a \n once in a while or use word wrap...hmm not funny.
- Thank you. Unfortunately I can't read more than 5 lines in one sitting.
Shamil Basayev
I personally think that the headline should mention his significance - his (and I say this loosely) job title. --Ade1982 14:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Mícheál Ó Domhnaill has just died
Can somebody link that to the main page? Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.1.172.138 (talk • contribs) .
- Please see Misplaced Pages:In the news section on the Main Page, criteria #5. Then, if you insist, post a suggestion at Misplaced Pages:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates. Thanks. --64.229.228.236 15:56, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- Instead of ITN, please consider posting at Recent deaths and on the right side of Current events. -- PFHLai 22:41, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
pirate
frankly ,this picture is not serious.You schould beter have use the pirate flag ,not the caricature.They supose to be ruthles criminals. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.65.137.22 (talk • contribs) 16:12, 2006 July 10 (UTC).
- I'd agree that the image would be a bit odd on the Main Page as an illustration of a Pirate Featured Article, but in this case it's the image itself that's featured. GeeJo ⁄(c) • 16:15, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- That is truly the worst thing to appear on the Main Page in a long time. violet/riga (t) 20:53, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- How the hell did this become as featured picture??? It makes no sense, it looks like some cheap clip art ripoff. --Childzy talk 21:26, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
It's a representation of the pirate stereotype, done by the same artist who did the images at Mad scientist and Villain. Also, see Misplaced Pages:Featured picture candidates/Pirate. EWS23 (Leave me a message!) 21:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't see what's wrong with the image. It's a perfectly good illustration of a stereotypical cartoon pirate. We get a lot of beautiful photographs, but it's nice to see something different every once in a while. —David Levy 21:51, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- Agreed. It's a nicely done illustration by one of our editors. Line art is an important part of our articles. Kellen 22:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
But the written blurb alongside it does not link properly. It's the same problem we've been having since we started having featured pictures, and it really needs sorting out else we should remove that section. violet/riga (t) 22:21, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
For example, compare:
violet/riga (t) 22:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Absolutely. The caption should have described the stereotype, not piracy -- that was completely inappropriate, since sea piracy continues to be a serious topic. Of course describing the picture requires more effort than copying a lead from an article, so it's understandable that those who maintain the FP calendar do not do it. One possible alternative would be to make a one paragraph description on the image description page a required criterion for featured picture candidates.--Eloquence* 00:20, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
I've clarified the criteria to this effect.--Eloquence* 00:23, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
If you want to discuss new proposals on modifing how the captions/written blurbs are edited, you might want to post on Misplaced Pages talk:Picture of the day instead of here.Zzyzx11 (Talk) 07:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)- Never mind, I misunderstood the issue. Thanks. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 08:16, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
I couldn't agree more with what violetriga said. See also Misplaced Pages:Captions. Carcharoth 14:39, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
The font is too small. Make it bigger.
World Cup news request
Please could someone change the word 'defeats' back to 'defeat' - as a topic concerning European nations in an event held in Europe, British English would seem more appropriate here (and in British English sports teams are always referred to as if they're a plural). In fact I'd even prefer it if it could be changed to 'Italy beat France' as this is the normal usage in the UK.
Cheers — SteveRwanda 16:53, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- I agree. It seems to me to be more correct to say that. - Cribananda 19:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- Should the lead of Italy national football team then read, "The Italian national football team are the national association football team of Italy"? Doesn't make any sense to me to say it that way, but I'm from the US. --Spangineer (háblame) 19:13, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- Mmm, interesting question - in that instance because you're talking about the team as an entity (one entity) rather than the specific team playing the match (eleven players), it's arguably correct to use the singular. However, when talking about the team's efforts on a particular night, UK usage is always in the plural. The same article you mention says here: Italy won their opening game of 2006 World Cup against Ghana, and the main BBC Sport article on the match also says Italy beat France 5-3 in a penalty shoot-out. I'm not saying it's logical, I'm just saying that's the way it is
— SteveRwanda 19:28, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- Mmm, interesting question - in that instance because you're talking about the team as an entity (one entity) rather than the specific team playing the match (eleven players), it's arguably correct to use the singular. However, when talking about the team's efforts on a particular night, UK usage is always in the plural. The same article you mention says here: Italy won their opening game of 2006 World Cup against Ghana, and the main BBC Sport article on the match also says Italy beat France 5-3 in a penalty shoot-out. I'm not saying it's logical, I'm just saying that's the way it is
- The latter of those examples is inconclusive. As past tense, "beat" could be singular or plural. --Landauer 20:02, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- Heh heh, good observation! However, the point is still valid - right at the top of the article it says "Highlights: Italy 1-1 France (Ita win 5-3 on pens)" and, further down, "But Italy recovered well from their unfortunate start"... Anyway, it's been changed now so hopefully that's the end of the matter until the item drops off the bottom of the list. — SteveRwanda 20:10, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- Certainly better to not have the 's'. violet/riga (t) 21:39, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- I changed "defeat" to "beat", because Italy defeat France sounds absolutely awful to my poor American ears, whereas "beat" is number neutral, as pointed out above. Dragons flight 22:11, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- PS. I'd also be happy with "defeated", if one wants to go that way. Dragons flight 22:13, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Text size
Why are the words so small? Make it bigger. It's hard to read anything. Aaaaaah! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.96.154.197 (talk • contribs) 18:43, 11 July 2006.
- Our site contains articles at standard Internet point sizes. You can tell your browser to make everything bigger, if you're have a hard time reading our site. -- Zanimum
Mumbai train bombings
The Indian flag serves no purpose for the news, can we have this image instead which is more informative. --Sartaj beary 20:28, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, Fair Use images are generally not allowed on the Main Page when there are acceptable free alternatives. If you can find a more suitable free-licensed image, feel free to propose the change again :) GeeJo ⁄(c) • 20:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
If Bombay and Mumbai are both acceptable use in India, and the western world knows Mumbai as Bombay then why are we calling it Mumbai? - 12.20.127.229 23:54, 11 July 2006 (UTC) (its spring time for nationalism!)
- Because it's name has been changed and out of respect we should use its new name. You don't go calling 'Constantinople' 'Istanbul' do you? ;) --Monotonehell 03:24, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
WIKIPEDIA blocked in China
Did you know that the whole Misplaced Pages is blocked in Mainland China? Is there any mirror sites that we people resideing in China can access this valuable resource? Thank you for your attention (the only way I found out is because i'm accessing wikipedia outside China).
- Yes, this is widely known. BoingBoing.net has some good articles on how to avoid the censorship, IIRC. — ceejayoz 22:17, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- See Misplaced Pages:Advice to Tor users in China, which has the URLs of the HTTPS gateways, which are not currently censored.--Eloquence* 22:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- Also, if you're interested in the history of the blocking, see Blocking of Misplaced Pages in mainland China. —Cuiviénen 22:30, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Texas
Shouldn't the little squib under DYK have made clear the article was about the geography of Texas? It looks like we somehow didn't bother having an article about Texas until recently. Daniel Case 02:29, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Texas helium
Is the past tense verb for "to extract a gas from a field" really "won"? Even if it is, isn't that a rather obscure terminology? --Nscheffey 04:13, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
- The more I look at it, I think the whole sentence is awkward and possibly incorrect. According to helium:
- After the "Helium Acts Amendments of 1960" (Public Law 86–777), the U.S. Bureau of Mines arranged for five private plants to recover helium from natural gas. For this helium conservation program, the Bureau built a 425-mile pipeline from Bushton, Kansas to connect those plants with the government's partially depleted Cliffside gas field, near Amarillo, Texas. This helium-nitrogen mixture was injected and stored in the Cliffside gas field until needed, when it then was further purified.
- This suggests the majority of helium is from Kansas, doesn't it? Surely there is a better DYK blurb one could make for Geography of Texas. --Nscheffey 04:17, 12 July 2006 (UTC)